My protein sources are too filling and too low in calories.

lemurcat12

70 seems a little low given your goals.

The best studies I've seen recommend .8-1 gram per lb of lean body mass as the max you will likely benefit from.

I don't know your lean body mass, but since you want to lose some weight, 25% might be a good estimate, but let's do a range of 20%-25% to be safe: that would make your lean body mass 115-123. So a conservative estimate would be that you should try and get at least 98 (.8 of 123), and don't need to get more. (Edit: I tend to prefer more, but it's not burdensome for me, and that's a significant consideration.)

pmm3437

The only medical studies ( not bro science articles on bodybuilding sites ) I have read that mention protein intake values at the top end of the range are short duration and highly restrictive calorie diets. Most of them picked a target of about twice the standard RDA, so around 1.5-1.6 g/kg. Some of those studies also did a comparative to a 3rd higher level, around 3x the base RDA. None of them ran trials at less than 2x the RDA, or with less restrictive calories.

From my recollection, there was no measurable difference in the results exceeding 2x, such that it was believed to not be beneficial to increase beyond that point. There is no clinical evidence that 2x is the optimal or maximally useful intake level, because they didn't test intermediate levels. Therefore, it is reasonable to conjecture that level could in fact be anywhere within the 1-2x RDA range. That gives a maximal result ( @1.5g/kg ) of ~ 104.3g/day for her body weight, and the actually necessary value could be much lower.

Regardless, I think we can both agree that she doesn't need to be trying to eat 140g+/day, as some of her diary logs suggest, which is nearly 1g/lb.

AliceDark

There are also some questions about whether or not non-animal protein sources are digestible to the same degree as animal-based protein sources. I would err on the side of too much vegetarian protein vs. too little to be safe (to a reasonable degree, of course. 100-125g should be a very safe ballpark for you; 70g seems low).

lemurcat12

Here's a good summary of the research on protein to date: examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day (it has footnotes to studies).

"If you are an athlete or highly active person currently attempting to lose body fat while preserving lean muscle mass, a daily intake of 1.5-2.2g/kg bodyweight (0.68-1g/lb bodyweight) would be a good target.

* * *

The US Recommended Daily Allowance for protein[1] ranges between 46-56g for adults, depending on gender. Sometimes this number is also defined as 0.8g/kg bodyweight, if relative to weight.

This is usually the lowest recommended estimate as it does not assume any extraneous conditions....

* * *

According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, protein intakes of 1.4-2.0 g/kg of bodyweight (0.6-0.9g/lb of bodyweight) for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. The American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine also support high protein intake for active individuals[8] in the range of 1.2-1.7 g/kg of bodyweight (0.5-0.8 g/lb of bodyweight).

The reasons for the above tend to be increased leucine oxidation (a marker for amino acids being used for fuel, by being turned into glucose) that requires a higher intake of amino acids to negate and preserve nitrogen balance. Additionally, increasing protein intake above the previously defined RDA 'daily allowance' will increase protein synthesis and, at levels higher than double this total, decrease protein breakdown. Increased muscular hypertrophy is seen as beneficial to sports performance.

During Weight Loss

High protein diets have been found to preserve lean body mass when dieting in both obese people and athletes and has also been shown to improve overall body composition. A doubling of protein intake from 0.9g/kg (near the daily recommended intake for the general population) to 1.8g/kg is able to preserve lean muscle mass during short-term and relatively drastic drops in calories."

pmm3437

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Here's a good summary of the research on protein to date: examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day (it has footnotes to studies).

"If you are an athlete or highly active person currently attempting to lose body fat while preserving lean muscle mass, a daily intake of 1.5-2.2g/kg bodyweight (0.68-1g/lb bodyweight) would be a good target.

* * *

The US Recommended Daily Allowance for protein[1] ranges between 46-56g for adults, depending on gender. Sometimes this number is also defined as 0.8g/kg bodyweight, if relative to weight.

This is usually the lowest recommended estimate as it does not assume any extraneous conditions....

* * *

According to the International Society of Sports Nutrition, protein intakes of 1.4-2.0 g/kg of bodyweight (0.6-0.9g/lb of bodyweight) for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. The American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine also support high protein intake for active individuals[8] in the range of 1.2-1.7 g/kg of bodyweight (0.5-0.8 g/lb of bodyweight).

The reasons for the above tend to be increased leucine oxidation (a marker for amino acids being used for fuel, by being turned into glucose) that requires a higher intake of amino acids to negate and preserve nitrogen balance. Additionally, increasing protein intake above the previously defined RDA 'daily allowance' will increase protein synthesis and, at levels higher than double this total, decrease protein breakdown. Increased muscular hypertrophy is seen as beneficial to sports performance.

During Weight Loss

High protein diets have been found to preserve lean body mass when dieting in both obese people and athletes and has also been shown to improve overall body composition. A doubling of protein intake from 0.9g/kg (near the daily recommended intake for the general population) to 1.8g/kg is able to preserve lean muscle mass during short-term and relatively drastic drops in calories."

I can agree with all of this. I am not trying to support a position it is unsafe to be at the high end of the range, and I've seen similar information about leucine. I gave her the full range recommendation, the calculated values at the extremes, a rational for why I chose 1g/kg, and the value for her at that same rate. I didn't claim it was optimal, just that it was sufficient to support health.

I was and am trying to alleviate her concern that she is somehow causing herself great harm because she was only able to hit 125g of a 145g target for a particular day, by giving her the math for minimal protein intake to support metabolic protein synthesis, which is sufficient for 97%+ of the population.

The 1g/lb ( which is 2.2g/kg )mantra that everyone likes to throw around on here is, at best, borderline dangerous, and potentialy harmful, based on studies of showing increase risk of kidney disease from excessive intake. And, that level of intake has been shown to be no more effective than 1.5g/kg in clinical studies with much higher levels of calorie restriction that she is likely to experience, unless following a medically supervised plan.

I never made a judgement of her status as an athlete or not, I simply said I do not consider myself to be one, when explaining my target. I also mentioned she can adjust based on where she fits on the scale.

ldrosophila

Current recommendations from the academy of dietetics

http://www.eatright.org/resource/fitness/sports-and-performance/fueling-your-workout/protein-and-the-athlete

Just add fat to your diet to up the calories

lemurcat12

pmm3437 wrote: »

The 1g/lb ( which is 2.2g/kg )mantra that everyone likes to throw around on here

I don't believe this is dangerous, but am responding more to say that I don't think it's what's normally recommended on MFP. It's common to see recommendations of .8-1 g per lb of LBM (similar to what I said above) or .6-.8 g per lb of bodyweight IF you are not obese. I like to recommend basing this on goal weight if you don't know your LBM.

I think the OP expressed concern about losing/maintaining muscle, not simply health.

ffbrown25

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond!

Even though eating this much protein has been a pain, it's had positive effects, too: I'm never ever hungry, I sleep like a brick at night, my blood sugar feels more stable. But ironically, the changes it's had on my appetite are what I'm having difficulty managing.

On days that I really work out, getting my net calories over 1200 while keeping my protein percentage in the 'correct' range (the range that MFP suggests for me) makes me feel SO bloated. I have to eat so much. I'm usually only barely able to get my net over 1300, MUCH less the 1800ish that MFP suggests for me. I am worried about the effect this will have on my body. I don't want my muscles eaten up to compensate for this deficit! (plus I'm burning so many more cals than MFP thinks I am...) And I get really nervous when I see people on here saying that the percentage of protein I eat in a day should actually be 30%!!!!! ACK!

But for now, with the information y'all have provided me, I am going to continue as I am, while trying to lower my fiber levels, and increasing the percentage of fat that I eat in a day, and pray that my body adapts to this new diet. I feel hopeful!