Protein intake 200g / day

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beatua1
beatua1 Posts: 98 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.

I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.

Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?

I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.
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Replies

  • hekla90
    hekla90 Posts: 595 Member
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    I am vegetarian and without trying usually get around 70-80 grams of protein a day. I weigh 97-98 lbs so it's definitely enough for me. I imagine eating meat should make getting that much protein much easier. That is the upper end of protein intake though, 0.8g/lb is the most the body can use without being supplemented by anabolic steroids which allow your cells to metabolize it differently. I know plenty of people who supplement with protein powder so it's probably fine. I would venture to say most men I know that also lift use protein powder.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,724 Member
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    I would aim for 180 and not be upset to the point of crying if I was around 150. I would drink an extra shake if below 140.... That's just me! (Based on your lean mass being 180; if bones were not excluded adjust down by another 5g or so)
  • mom2kpr
    mom2kpr Posts: 348 Member
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    It is actually .8 - 1.8g per weight in kg so 90g - 200g of protein. So 200g would be the absolute most you would need. Since you do SL5x5, I definitely wouldn't do the low end, but maybe the middle. Aim for 1.2g per kg, that would give you about 133. If you do any endurance exercise on top of the weight, you could increase your protein.
  • RodaRose
    RodaRose Posts: 9,562 Member
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    beatua1 wrote: »
    In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.

    I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.

    Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?

    I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.

    I can tell you that your body will recognize all those sources of protein.
    Shakes, beef, chicken, eggs, fish, and other sources of protein ---- all of those count as protein.
    (I am not good with the math re your other question so I will leave that alone.)
  • beatua1
    beatua1 Posts: 98 Member
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    Thanks for the responses, even aiming for 180 would be a lot better than 200g as it would mean one less shake per day. I do some cardio, usually moderate intensity for about 45 mins 5-6 days a week and average about 12000 steps per day according to my fitbit.

    I also meant to post these in my original post, but the links below are some of the reading online I used to base my .8 g / lb of body weight expectation.

    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22150425

    Thanks again for the responses.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,724 Member
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    .8 per lb of bodyweight stands as a proxy for up to 1g per lb if lean body mass.

    And in the article you quote he discusses how that is more than enough, I.e. already above where it HAS to be.

    Now losing weight may require a bit more protein. I've seen at least one study quoting 2x RDA and that would bring it to just above 0.8g per lb of lean.

    Of course people don't specify of they excluse your skeleton .... but I don't see it as needing much protein support.

    Put it all together together with the fact that you don't have to be perfect or you will disappear off the face of the earth in a puddle of nitrogen deficiency due to lack of 30g of excess protein, and you have my recommendation that a) you don't need to ho above 180, 150 will do, try to stay above 140 most of the time.

    I mean technically you are also trying to become smaller which does entail some loss. So again you could just as easily be basing all this in your GOAL lean mass, which would be less than your current one!

    And, of course, if your kidneys can take it, you can always eat more.


    Not so sure why you're having trouble reaching the 150s. With your size there is no reason on earth why you wouldn't be losing at 2200Cal plus and I've had no trouble exceeding 150 at that level.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    beatua1 wrote: »
    In reading online and going through online papers it seems to me that one should eat about .8 g of protein / lb of body weight in order to maintain as much muscle as possible while cutting weight. I also am lifting following the SL 5x5 program to try and lose fat.

    I am 6'2" 245 and at .8g protein / lb that puts me at nearly 200g of protein a day. I recently had a body fat test using ultrasound on three locations (chest, waist, thigh) and it returned 24%. That seems a bit low to me, but even at 25 or 26% it would leave me at about 181 lbs of lean body weight. At 1 g protein / lb of LBM I'm still at 181 g / day. I find it very difficult to eat that much protein. At this point I am supplementing about 3 protein shakes a day to get to nearly 200g of protein daily.

    Does it seem right to need to eat that much protein? If so is it reasonable to get 75-100 of those grams from protein shake?

    I do eat meat and often eat beef, chicken, eggs, fish, other sources of protein.

    Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.

    http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open

    111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day

    No need to worry!

    The awesome James Fell on protein:

    http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,724 Member
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    Orphia wrote: »
    Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.
    http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open
    111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day
    No need to worry!
    The awesome James Fell on protein:
    http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html

    http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/9/3837
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    mom2kpr wrote: »
    It is actually .8 - 1.8g per weight in kg so 90g - 200g of protein. So 200g would be the absolute most you would need. Since you do SL5x5, I definitely wouldn't do the low end, but maybe the middle. Aim for 1.2g per kg, that would give you about 133. If you do any endurance exercise on top of the weight, you could increase your protein.
    no it's not actually

    it's 0.8 grams per lb of weight or 1 gram per lbm.

    and you treat macros as Minimums.

    OP I get in on average 120-140 a day eating 1500-1800 calories...

    My diary is open if you wish to see how but basically lots of lean meats, eggs, cheese, seafood, fish and eggs.

    Summer time I do supplement in my smoothie as i typically have eggs and ham/cheese in the morning.
  • Orphia
    Orphia Posts: 7,097 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Orphia wrote: »
    Men should be eating 0.84 grams of protein per kilo, not pound.
    http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/protein?open
    111 kg * 0.84 g = 93.24 g/day
    No need to worry!
    The awesome James Fell on protein:
    http://au.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/the-problem-with-protein.html

    http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/9/3837

    Any meta-studies of similar trials?

    Still no need to more than double his protein.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    The article I liked the best analysed a number of studies and came to the conclusion that even for a professional bodybuilder there was no additional benefit in consuming over 0.82g protein per lb of bodyweight

    And that in actual fact the range was probably, for most, closer to 0.64g protein per lb of bodyweight

    But there is no issue in consuming over that so should be viewed as a minimum to reach

    I always think most would be fine at 0.64g so for a 225lb male in defecit that would set your minimum at 163g

    Will go find article now
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
  • professionalHobbyist
    professionalHobbyist Posts: 1,316 Member
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    I eat a gram of protein as you do when in recomp mode

    24% is high a bit.

    I would say to try and do some long duration cardio when fasted. Like 2 hours, and force some fat as fuel burn.

  • JoshLikesBeer
    JoshLikesBeer Posts: 88 Member
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    I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.

    Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    JoshLikesBeer wrote: »
    I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.

    Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.

    Read article I posted ^^^
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,724 Member
    edited July 2015
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    Orphia wrote: »
    Any meta-studies of similar trials? Still no need to more than double his protein.

    a) Seems to be a well designed, and relevant to the OP study: metabolic ward and dealing specifically with people in a deficit.

    For a more easy to read review of the study people can read: http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/06/evidence-from-metabolic-ward-16-24gkg.html

    b) the study I quote supports the OP's hardly unique position of eating approx 0.8g of protein per lb of bodyweight (study says 1.6g to 2.0g per kg; this translates to 0.72576 to 0.9072 -- I think 0.8g is nicely in the middle of that, non?)

    c) OP has quoted an article reviewing multiple studies that support up to 0.8g per lb during an anabolic phase

    So, OP (and I guess I), are aware of the RDA, and seem to believe that there is credible evidence that an amount approximately 2x the RDA is more lean mass preserving than the RDA. And, in general, the downside of a healthy person eating too much protein appears fairly minimal--at least as compared to many other risks in life.

    So we have a fairly low risk gamble for an outcome we consider to be worthwhile.
    Sounds good to me!

    Now, I do understand that you may chose to follow the RDA and that you feel that you should remind us all that it *is* the RDA!

    I understand that, though I would like to bring to your attention that RDA recommendations are designed for people who maintain, not people who are either in an anabolic or a catabolic phase.

    And I do understand that you may chose to not believe a single study, and would want to see the results duplicated and multi-confirmed before acting upon them: that is certainly your privilege.

    I just don't get your comment "still no need to more than double his protein".

    If your comment is in reference to someone telling the OP to eat more protein than he is doing now.... nobody has done that!

    I've suggested to him that the review article he quotes supports a slightly lower target than the one he specified, and I also suggested that he doesn't have to be anal about reaching his target every single day as long as he keeps eating at a generally high enough level,

    I even went as far as to suggest that he could base his protein requirement on his target weight as opposed to his current weight, effectively reducing his target amount by up to 50g.

    If your comment, however, is a reference to choosing to eat protein at roughly double the RDA, while in a deficit, based on evidence that has not yet satisfied you; I think we've already covered that.

    You don't believe the evidence is enough to support this position.
    The OP, Stef, and I seem to believe that it is.

    Okey-dokey-hokey-pokey. Clear as mud and good to go!
  • beatua1
    beatua1 Posts: 98 Member
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    The article I liked the best analysed a number of studies and came to the conclusion that even for a professional bodybuilder there was no additional benefit in consuming over 0.82g protein per lb of bodyweight

    And that in actual fact the range was probably, for most, closer to 0.64g protein per lb of bodyweight

    But there is no issue in consuming over that so should be viewed as a minimum to reach

    I always think most would be fine at 0.64g so for a 225lb male in defecit that would set your minimum at 163g

    Will go find article now

    Thanks rabbitjb and everyone who responded. I quoted the same article you did as the source of my .8/lb goal. I think I will just shoot for a minimum of 160g per day with 180 being my goal. for some reason even eating an average of 2200-2300 calories a day I seem to struggle to get to that 180 without supplementing at least a couple protein shakes in there. I don't mind doing it, just wanted confirmation I wasn't making a huge mistake in doing so.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I will continue on my journey with 180g protein / day and hope at the end I have maintained most of my lean muscle while losing a majority of fat!
  • JoshLikesBeer
    JoshLikesBeer Posts: 88 Member
    edited July 2015
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    Read article I posted ^^^

    I read it. The author only cited a small hand-picked set of studies that backed up the point he wanted to make. You can't start with a conclusion, find a few studies to back it up, ignore the ones that don't, and expect to be taken seriously. You have to look at all of the studies, do a meta-analysis, and only then can you draw a meaningful conclusion.
  • professionalHobbyist
    professionalHobbyist Posts: 1,316 Member
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    JoshLikesBeer wrote: »
    I'm on a shredding program where you lose fat and gain muscle while maintaining the same weight, and it calls for eating 1.5g of protein per pound of bodyweight. The program is working for me, but I do find it difficult to eat that much protein. Yesterday I had one protein shake, one whole egg, 8 egg whites, about 14oz of chicken, and about 7oz of steak. Spreading all of that out over the course of the day helped, but it still seemed like a bit much. However, I only have one more week on this program, and so far I'm down from 13.6% body fat to 11.2%.

    Normally I shoot for 1g protein per pound of bodyweight.

    That would be a challenge but you are getting results into low body fat percentages.

    Hard to argue results.
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    edited July 2015
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    0.60 to 0.80 grams protein per 1 lb. bodyweight is the range for active individuals... Don't go by one unrealistic figure every day of the year. Just stay within the range. 0.80 grams per 1 lb. bodyweight is the upper register of what even pro (natural) bodybuilders can utilize as far as new muscle synthesis.

    0.60 g x 245 lbs. = 147 grams protein per day or more.


    Adjust your protein macro as you lose weight.

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