Flexible Dieting (IIFYM)
Replies
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DeeJayShank wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
Tell that to Kane Sumabat or Layne Norton...
No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
There's your problem. You've got a strawman stuck in your exhaust pipe.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
Tell that to Kane Sumabat or Layne Norton...
No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
There's your problem. You've got a strawman stuck in your exhaust pipe.
Grr, I hate it when that happens.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
Tell that to Kane Sumabat or Layne Norton...
No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
There's your problem. You've got a strawman stuck in your exhaust pipe.
Hehehehe.........0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.DeeJayShank wrote: »No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
Except you are speaking for others and not just yourself....0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
The majority of body builders that run a bulk are going to eat more than 50 grams of carbs....so your assertion is not correct.
This is a cutting suggestion, not a bulk.
OK - the majority of body builders also cut on more than 50 grams, because they want energy to fuel their workouts.
I am cutting right now and my carb intake is about 35% and I am down 12 pounds and back under 15% body fat...
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professionalHobbyist wrote: »It seems every diet is IIFYM.
You punch in your macros and then follow it
Not sure why this is a controversial topic.
Your diet
Your business
If it works---Yay You!
Disagree. I would argue.....(no facts to base this on) that a majority of MFP'ers follow the CALORIE counter more closely than adhearing strictly to MACRO breakdown.
Maybe it seems understood to me but counting calories would be a starting point
I set my macros in user preferences and the plug in food and see the calorie counts go up and the macro levels send advisory messages when hit
Seems pretty hard to screw up dieting using MFP.
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To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
I am sorry but that is not what IIFYM is.
IIFYM is hitting your macros, micros, and calorie target for the day. IIFYM is not eating pop tarts all day, no matter how much you want to think it is. Please find me an IIFYM proponent that advocates not hitting micronutrient targets.0 -
Be mindful of your micros. Skinny does not equal healthy. If you regularly eat junk but small enough portions to give you a calorie deficit, you are not likely getting nutrients you need.
wut?
I eat a serving of ice cream every day and I have no problem hitting my micros and macros.
Junk food tends to be macro (calorie) rich and micro poor. If you fill up your macros with junk you are likely to be deficient in some micro nutrient. I'm not talking about one serving of ice cream. I'm talking about IIFYM being used as an excuse to eat ONLY junk. Congratulations on your success.
If your diet is not nutrient dense then that is not IIFYM...
IIFYM is not eating ice cream and pop tarts all day.
for the record, there is no junk food, just junk diets.
I think some that hate on IIFYM suppose someone would set their macros to 5-5-90 carb heavy and eat only doughnuts
But that is getting a bit far fetched
Reasonable macro settings makes you get a cross section of foods/nutrients.
There is no real basis for the ongoing arguing on MFP.
Reasonable macros at a correct calorie level works
I ate a half pizza after a 3000 calorie 40+ mile ride.
It fit my calorie and macro limits
And it was good....
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DeeJayShank wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
Tell that to Kane Sumabat or Layne Norton...
No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
What? Again, you're failing to understand IIFYM. No IIFYM'er is advocating eating candy all day....
RULE #1 - FOCUS ON NUTRIENT DENSE FOODS!!!!!!! This will be the 4th time I've had to post this........
You are wrong. Sorry. IIFYM, by it's very definition, says to focus on what fits your macros. YOU are placing your own brand and thoughts on it by saying "focus on nutrient dense foods". That is YOU saying that, not the universe of IIFYM believers.
Recognize the fact that you are adding supplementary conditions to IIFYM. So you cannot simultaneously criticize a plan that focuses on higher-quality food and say that IIFYM is ok as long as you eat nutrient-dense food.
This is an illogical argument.0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
I am sorry but that is not what IIFYM is.
IIFYM is hitting your macros, micros, and calorie target for the day. IIFYM is not eating pop tarts all day, no matter how much you want to think it is. Please find me an IIFYM proponent that advocates not hitting micronutrient targets.
Sorry, you are still WRONG!! RTFM:
http://iifym.com/do-i-have-to-eat-junk-food-i-heard-fast-food-is-a-staple-in-iifym-diets/
Do I have to eat junk food with IIFYM?
You can eat any kind of food you like while doing IIFYM. Clean, dirty, paleo, low carb, high carb. Anything you want.
That is what the website says, so you can keeping adding conditions until IIFYM fits your narrow view, but that is not what people think when they view the FAQ. What they think is I can eat whatever I want under IIFYM because the FAQ says so!!!
How hard is this to understand??0 -
Who does this? And if you find someone that does, they are not following IIFYM...Be mindful of your micros. Skinny does not equal healthy. If you regularly eat junk but small enough portions to give you a calorie deficit, you are not likely getting nutrients you need.
wut?
I eat a serving of ice cream every day and I have no problem hitting my micros and macros.
Junk food tends to be macro (calorie) rich and micro poor. If you fill up your macros with junk you are likely to be deficient in some micro nutrient. I'm not talking about one serving of ice cream. I'm talking about IIFYM being used as an excuse to eat ONLY junk. Congratulations on your success.
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professionalHobbyist wrote: »Reasonable macro settings makes you get a cross section of foods/nutrients.
Yes--as I said above I think the concept of IIFYM (or flexible dieting also) incorporates an assumption that you are eating a mostly nutrient dense diet, but even for those who aren't there yet I think focusing on meeting reasonable macros is a step toward a balanced diet and understanding what that means. It's kind of shocking to me that this is necessary, but from observing on MFP I think for some it is--just learning what foods contain what and likely increasing your protein can lead to improvements in the diet.
When I was a kid the standard American diet was pretty balanced: dinner=meat, veg, and a starch, and that's not so different than what someone might come up with in thinking through how to meet macros. (You'd add some fat or cook with it, of course.)0 -
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DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
Why is it crappy advice though? IIFYM is for weight loss. To lose weight, you have to eat less than you burn. IIFYM will put you in a deficit and that's what matters. MFP is essentially the same set up. Is that crappy, too?0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »That is what the website says
So what? The website isn't the source of that approach to eating.
I could start a website called paleo-facts (or whatever paleo name isn't taken) and promote wheat products, but that doesn't make wheat a "paleo diet" food.0 -
DeeJayShank wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
I am sorry but that is not what IIFYM is.
IIFYM is hitting your macros, micros, and calorie target for the day. IIFYM is not eating pop tarts all day, no matter how much you want to think it is. Please find me an IIFYM proponent that advocates not hitting micronutrient targets.
Sorry, you are still WRONG!! RTFM:
http://iifym.com/do-i-have-to-eat-junk-food-i-heard-fast-food-is-a-staple-in-iifym-diets/
Do I have to eat junk food with IIFYM?
You can eat any kind of food you like while doing IIFYM. Clean, dirty, paleo, low carb, high carb. Anything you want.
That is what the website says, so you can keeping adding conditions until IIFYM fits your narrow view, but that is not what people think when they view the FAQ. What they think is I can eat whatever I want under IIFYM because the FAQ says so!!!
How hard is this to understand??
Your logic here is specious.
You're effectively asserting that you have to ascribe to some "named" plan to have good nutritional sense, and that robs people of the agency to make conscientious choices of their own within a broader framework, which is something that they self-evidently possess.
A broad framework provides myriad choices. Your logic is pointing to only one: no nutrition. That doesn't hold up logically.
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DeeJayShank wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
I am sorry but that is not what IIFYM is.
IIFYM is hitting your macros, micros, and calorie target for the day. IIFYM is not eating pop tarts all day, no matter how much you want to think it is. Please find me an IIFYM proponent that advocates not hitting micronutrient targets.
Sorry, you are still WRONG!! RTFM:
http://iifym.com/do-i-have-to-eat-junk-food-i-heard-fast-food-is-a-staple-in-iifym-diets/
Do I have to eat junk food with IIFYM?
You can eat any kind of food you like while doing IIFYM. Clean, dirty, paleo, low carb, high carb. Anything you want.
That is what the website says, so you can keeping adding conditions until IIFYM fits your narrow view, but that is not what people think when they view the FAQ. What they think is I can eat whatever I want under IIFYM because the FAQ says so!!!
How hard is this to understand??
yea, that is a site that is selling a product, and I don't think it is an official IIFYM site. Also, unless you know what their "coaching" is, which I assume that you only get if you buy the program, you really do not know what they are recommending.
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DeeJayShank wrote: »Lotta meatheads in these forums, really pretty suffocating.
To newbies, IIFYM often means eat whatever you want, just fit macros. This is crappy advice. This is my point.
The beauty of IIFYM, though, is that the noob dieter may think "Yes! I'll eat whatever I want as long as it fits my macros!" Maybe they'll start out by eating Skittles, fat free Greek yogurt, and bacon, as another poster mentioned.
The thing is, the dieter has to figure out a way to make the diet sustainable. They would get burnt out just eating "junk" food all the time (probably in a day or two), and would likely always be hungry. This would force them to take another look at things a little differently, causing them to think a little more about their intake, and teach them about portion control.
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DeeJayShank wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »martyqueen52 wrote: »DeeJayShank wrote: »Every single day, I first always focus on eating 0.8g protein (or more) per pound of lean body mass (my total weight minus my bodyfat weight)
On rest days, I keep carbs under 50g and eat more fat.
On workout days, I eat very little fat and eat higher carbs.
This is a common bodybuilder methodology.
IIFYM works great if you have >30 pounds to lose. But once you reach sub-12% bodyfat, you will find it challenging to get any leaner unless you focus more intently on what you're eating and when you eat it.
Losing weight via a calorie deficit is definitely possible via IIFYM, but building muscle while staying lean is, speaking frankly, not nearly as simple.
Tell that to Kane Sumabat or Layne Norton...
No reason to. Just sharing my own experience. For me, IIFYM works great when I have plenty of bodyfat to provide me with extra energy. Not the same mental/physical experience when I try to eat candy all day and maintain a deficit at under 12% bodyfat.
What? Again, you're failing to understand IIFYM. No IIFYM'er is advocating eating candy all day....
RULE #1 - FOCUS ON NUTRIENT DENSE FOODS!!!!!!! This will be the 4th time I've had to post this........
You are wrong. Sorry. IIFYM, by it's very definition, says to focus on what fits your macros. YOU are placing your own brand and thoughts on it by saying "focus on nutrient dense foods". That is YOU saying that, not the universe of IIFYM believers.
Recognize the fact that you are adding supplementary conditions to IIFYM. So you cannot simultaneously criticize a plan that focuses on higher-quality food and say that IIFYM is ok as long as you eat nutrient-dense food.
This is an illogical argument.
This is why I don't call my personal eating habits IIFYM. I don't pay attention to my macro totals. I worry about calories. Now, in doing so, I've phased out or cut down on less nutritious foods for meals in favor of more nutritious foods because I can get my bang for my buck, so to speak. I end up getting close to my macros anyways, I just don't care enough to try and meet them every day. Personally, I think 'flexible eating' is a much better term for what a lot of people are actually doing on MFP, not IIFYM.0 -
Personally, I think 'flexible eating' is a much better term for what a lot of people are actually doing on MFP, not IIFYM.
I agree. I think it depends on how focused you are on specific macros.
I'm really quite, uh, flexible on the macros beyond a few broad guidelines, so I call it flexible dieting. ;-)0 -
I am just going to put this here:
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/everything-you-need-know-about-iifym
point four lays it out nicely:
Eat mostly whole foods: Mother Nature isn’t stupid. All of the foods that are considered “bad” for us are of our own creation; sugar and fat-laden processed foods — while all of the foods that are full of nutrients and minerals are found in nature. While IIFYM promotes diversity in one’s diet, you need to make sure that your food choices are coming mostly from the right sources. Nate Miyaki, a ISSA certified specialist in sports/fitness nutrition, is a proponent of what he refers to as an island style diet; eating animal proteins, fruits, veggies and starches such as rice and potatoes. “Emphasizing your diet on whole foods automatically improves most peoples’ numbers,” says Miyaki. “If you’re eating the typical highly refined American diet, you’re eating 3,000 calories and you don’t even know it ... and it’s just unfunctional nutrients. If you switch to whole foods, you can get the same amount of functional nutrients and feel more satiated with half the calories. It is food choices that are important for those reasons.”
so sorry, but IIFYM is not eating ice cream all day, no matter how much you want to think it is.0 -
I take a modified approach. I try to get most of my calories from "clean" food, chicken, sweet potatoes, quinoa, etc., but have no qualms about a bowl of ice cream or some doritos if they fit my macros.
See my *post* how is yours a "modified" approach? I just choose NOT to label food anything other than what it is..... FOOD.
Well, my understanding is that IIFYM means that you could eat skittles, bacon and fat free greek yogurt all day as long as it fits your macros. Am I wrong?
That part is "false" because you wouldn't be able to hit your macro targets just eating those three alone all day. Again, refer back to my original post about the original core of IIFYM is.
Well that's just taking the entire diet out of context and going by the name alone. It is seriously equivalent to saying "I'm going to follow the atkins diet. Where's Dr. Atkins, I need to roast him up for dinner."
Diets have a context; many have a book describing what they are. IIFYM is a little more convoluted because they derived from responses in online forums. These were mostly bodybuilders who were likely suffering from orthorexia and were terrified of eating anything not typically considered "healthy" according to show prep dieting (think lots of chicken and broccoli). So, someone introduced the concept of flexible dieting and incorporating some treats to help with adherence as long as people were in their macros and people could still meet their goals.
Again, context; these are body builders who realize that your above diet would lead to crap performance, hence they would not be able to meet their goals. You would also be hungry as F, and so I doubt you'd be able to stick to that all day everyday. These people understood that the majority of their foods should be whole foods that are nutrient dense. It literally stemmed from someone asking "can I have a snickers", and the response was "well sure, if it fits your macros".
Just because you don't understand a concept and don't care to understand what it actually means does not invalidate it.
Thanks for this post - it's really interesting to me to hear about some of the background for IIFYM (there's that context thing again).
I don't know why some people try to take the concept - which to me is beautifully simple - and try to twist it into some sort of argument by posting meals made up of pop tarts or something.
Even as a relative newcomer to these forums, IIFYM made perfect sense to me the second it was explained (I think it was a post by ndj1979 that finally made my mental lights turn on about IIFYM).
In my experience so far, it's the people always trying to exaggerate IIFYM to "make a point" who end up confusing things. Give most newbies some credit for being able to learn new stuff. In my case, IIFYM freed me from old stereotypes and misinformation about weight loss, and has made this whole process not only pretty much painless, but also has me feeling strong and confident about being able to do this for the rest of my life.
Strawmen arguments and hyperbole don't work well regardless of which "side" throws them around.0 -
I am just going to put this here:
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/everything-you-need-know-about-iifym
point four lays it out nicely:
Eat mostly whole foods: Mother Nature isn’t stupid. All of the foods that are considered “bad” for us are of our own creation; sugar and fat-laden processed foods — while all of the foods that are full of nutrients and minerals are found in nature. While IIFYM promotes diversity in one’s diet, you need to make sure that your food choices are coming mostly from the right sources. Nate Miyaki, a ISSA certified specialist in sports/fitness nutrition, is a proponent of what he refers to as an island style diet; eating animal proteins, fruits, veggies and starches such as rice and potatoes. “Emphasizing your diet on whole foods automatically improves most peoples’ numbers,” says Miyaki. “If you’re eating the typical highly refined American diet, you’re eating 3,000 calories and you don’t even know it ... and it’s just unfunctional nutrients. If you switch to whole foods, you can get the same amount of functional nutrients and feel more satiated with half the calories. It is food choices that are important for those reasons.”
so sorry, but IIFYM is not eating ice cream all day, no matter how much you want to think it is.
I don't like that "natural = good" tone of the point. Especially since the sugar and fat from the sugar and fat-laden processed foods comes directly from nature too.0 -
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stevencloser wrote: »I am just going to put this here:
http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/everything-you-need-know-about-iifym
point four lays it out nicely:
Eat mostly whole foods: Mother Nature isn’t stupid. All of the foods that are considered “bad” for us are of our own creation; sugar and fat-laden processed foods — while all of the foods that are full of nutrients and minerals are found in nature. While IIFYM promotes diversity in one’s diet, you need to make sure that your food choices are coming mostly from the right sources. Nate Miyaki, a ISSA certified specialist in sports/fitness nutrition, is a proponent of what he refers to as an island style diet; eating animal proteins, fruits, veggies and starches such as rice and potatoes. “Emphasizing your diet on whole foods automatically improves most peoples’ numbers,” says Miyaki. “If you’re eating the typical highly refined American diet, you’re eating 3,000 calories and you don’t even know it ... and it’s just unfunctional nutrients. If you switch to whole foods, you can get the same amount of functional nutrients and feel more satiated with half the calories. It is food choices that are important for those reasons.”
so sorry, but IIFYM is not eating ice cream all day, no matter how much you want to think it is.
I don't like that "natural = good" tone of the point. Especially since the sugar and fat from the sugar and fat-laden processed foods comes directly from nature too.
I was not a fan of that either..but I just wanted to point out that IIFYM proponents are stressing meeting nutritional needs and not just gorging on snickers and pop tarts all day long.0 -
Here's another good article for both 'clean' eating and IIFYM:
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/clean-eating-vs-iifym/0 -
A couple of others (I don't agree with everything, but both are worth reading, IMO):
http://sigmanutrition.com/iifym-vs-paleo/
http://wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/ (this is specifically on flexible dieting, discussed as "moderation" and the relevant stuff is toward the end)0 -
Are people aware of the "origin" behind IIFYM???0
This discussion has been closed.
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