AMA: Obesity is a disease
Replies
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Harsh crowd.
Yes, overeating.
But, is there an underlying condition that makes it difficult to lose weight, maintain, and easy to gain weight? Are there biochemical abnormalities that go beyond willpower?
Obesity is an epidemic. Perhaps classifying it as a disease is a first honest step for society to step up and fix it. Aside from drug and surgery approaches, other things society could do include charging $5 for a burger at McDonalds and $0.99 for a full salad.
I don't think we should just start complaining that obesity is only a willpower problem for lazy people.
My tuppence.
Sean
Thank you! And mattschwarz0 (and any other similarly reasonable voices contributing to this thread). Otherwise, I'm disappointed and, in many cases, offended by the numerous assertions that all obese people are simply some combination of stupid, uneducated, gluttonous and lazy.0 -
Lung cancer is a disease that is primarily caused by smoking...agreed?
Stigma induces shame induced more overeating...
Shame has no place in my life.
On the other hand, I don't want to feel like I'm in some victim role...
Undecided.
The disease or disorder doesn't make you victim. You're a victim if you let the label control you, though. So don't let the label control you, just like you don't let shame control you.0 -
Whether they classify Obesity as a disease or not, it is not going to change the mind set that made us all (the collective fat crowd) obese in the first place. I do think it could assist with getting things paid for by insurance that are not otherwise covered. I know from experience (working in insurance and being a fat kid) that nutritionist visits are often not covered or are offered for three sessions, etc. For those people who are looking to get healthy and make change in their lives, this could be a positive thing. For those who are looking to stay in their current situation, this will be irrelevant. My ex husband was succesful in getting Social Security, a handicap parking placard, Long Term Disability and other "benefits" just for being obese - morbidly obese. It is already possible for people to get these things mentioned in the previous comments without the classification of Obesity as a disease.0
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I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled0 -
Good I hope that's true now maybe we can start looking at preventative measures and actual solid treatment to treat a disease with such high recidivism and mortality.
We have preventative measures AND treatment for the majority of obese people (not all; I recognize that). It's called healthy eating and moving around. I am obese due to these things, so yes, I can be direct on the subject. I'm obese because I put crap in my body, too much of said crap, and didn't get my butt out of the chair/couch/bed and move! But if someone is looking for the easy, painless way to undo it, they will stay obese forever, and likely continue to get worse because they are unwilling to accept treatment. Or do a quick fix surgery and then balloon back up when their habits don't change. Obesity caused by other disorders, like thyroid problems and such? Yes, please continue working on those! But unfortunately you can't seem to make people care about their lives or their family's lives enough to ditch the comfort anymore.
I hope I didn't offend anyone here, but I won't pretend that this "happened to" all of us. Many of us made ourselves this way (as you all recognize, or you wouldn't be on this site), and yes, we're sick, but there's no one to blame for most of us but ourselves.0 -
I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled
A lot of people use diseases (and obesity already) to try to get disability.0 -
Whether they classify Obesity as a disease or not, it is not going to change the mind set that made us all (the collective fat crowd) obese in the first place. I do think it could assist with getting things paid for by insurance that are not otherwise covered. I know from experience (working in insurance and being a fat kid) that nutritionist visits are often not covered or are offered for three sessions, etc. For those people who are looking to get healthy and make change in their lives, this could be a positive thing. For those who are looking to stay in their current situation, this will be irrelevant. My ex husband was succesful in getting Social Security, a handicap parking placard, Long Term Disability and other "benefits" just for being obese - morbidly obese. It is already possible for people to get these things mentioned in the previous comments without the classification of Obesity as a disease.
See, I can see maybe getting a temporary one, like six months while they work on themselves. However, I think if progress is not continuous, benefits should be cut off because they're not wanting to live life anyway, if they're throwing it away like that. Unless there's a hormonal/chemical/etc disorder behind the obesity, this.0 -
The financial implications of this boggle my mind.
If obesity in and of itself is a disease, everything that is currently being sold to fight obesity (effective or not,) is going to be covered under health insurance.
So my health insurance is now going to be used to buy my gym membership, my "it works!" wraps, my HCG, my Jenny Craig, my Nutrisystem, my Thighmaster, my Weight Watchers, my raspberry ketones, my green tea extract......the list is long.
How much are we prepared to pay for health insurance? The insurance companies are sure to pass along their increased costs in the form of higher premiums.
Weird, I thought the exact opposite. Some insurance companies will refuse to ensure anyone with a "pre existing" condition. If an obese person gets a new job and applies for insurance, what is preventing that new insurer from saying "Well, since obesity is classified as a disease, and you were obese before you signed up, you have a pre-existing condition. Sorry, we don't cover pre-existing conditions, therefore you're out of luck here."
I see it as more of a hindrance to insurance than a help. Insurance companies can deny people for a myriad of "pre existing" conditions. I know one person whose father had Huntington's Chorea. The guy I knew refused to get tested, because if it came back he had it, his insurance company would have refused to cover any costs associated, should he end up contracting it later in life. It was, in their eyes, a pre-existing condition.
Obamacare will not allow excluding anyone for a pre-existing condition. So that argument falls right apart in a few months when full implmentation occurs.
But I don't blame you for not knowing that, even the lawmakers who passed it had to vote first and then find out what was in it.............:ohwell:
Thanks for the clarification! I was referring more back to a time when pre-existing conditions were part of my family's insurance plan. Husband had just earned his pilot wings and when we went to update our insurance (not health, but life) one of the questions asked of him was "Are you a pilot?". He lied and said no, because had he said yes, he would have been denied. However, I was worried about the fraud he just committed, so I made him go back and tell the insurance agent.
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I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled
A lot of people use diseases (and obesity already) to try to get disability.
The people who are already disabled for this reason might find themselves told that they now have a treatable disease. Go see your doctor, get treated, and welcome back to the working world!0 -
Good debate and I can see both sides. I have a lot of random thoughts going on, so forgive me for being all over the place.
First, pre-existing conditions in health insurance don't mean they won't ever be covered...generally there is a period of betwen 6-18 months before it's covered. The reason behind it is that you need a wide pool of people, not just those that got sick to buy health insurance. Think cancer. YOu don't have insurance, but you find out you have cancer so you try to buy insurance. Some people think that's unfair, but that's how the insurance costs are figured. If only sick people got health insurance, the cost would be way higher than it already is. (Law of Large Numbers). And, I'm pretty sure that in 2014, pre-existing conditions are going to be a thing of the past (already been eliminated for children).
Do I agree with it being labeled a disease? Probably not. But I know that I get some release from stress etc from a bag of doritos just as much as the next person turns to alcohol or drug abuse. (i'm not comparing them, I'm just stating, I've chosen a different "vice") I am proud and envious of those that use the gym/exercise for a stress reliever -- I want to be one of you, but I'm not there yet.
We know it's cheaper to pay for prevention of things than to fix things after they go bad. That's why annual check ups are generally paid at a rate of 100%. If we can keep people healthy instead of waiting for them to get sick and then treating them, we will be ahead of the game.
We know that smoking causes cancer...there are a lot of anti-smoking campaigns out there. It doesn't stop everybody but it stops some. I'd rather pay for anti-obesity campaigns, cooking lessons, gym memberships etc than to pay all the bills for the problems that come from being obese...diabetis, hearth disease, etc, etc. Guess what folks??? You're already paying for it, its' just labeled something different. Maybe if I would have acquired a taste for healthy foods when I was younger, I would enjoy them more than a steak and potato (grew up on the farm and didn't have weight problems from eating 'bad' foods because I worked it off). And hind sight is 20/20 -- I can't change what I've done in the past, but I can try to do better in the future, but I can tell you, I still like a cheeseburger a heck of a lot more than a healthy salad.
I'm not worried about how this is going to affect my health insurance costs (they've gone up and up well before obesity was labeled a disease), but if this will help with some preventative measures on the next generation I'm not totally against it. By the way, I'm having asparagus with supper tonight (baby steps :laugh: )0 -
Whether they classify Obesity as a disease or not, it is not going to change the mind set that made us all (the collective fat crowd) obese in the first place. I do think it could assist with getting things paid for by insurance that are not otherwise covered. I know from experience (working in insurance and being a fat kid) that nutritionist visits are often not covered or are offered for three sessions, etc. For those people who are looking to get healthy and make change in their lives, this could be a positive thing. For those who are looking to stay in their current situation, this will be irrelevant. My ex husband was succesful in getting Social Security, a handicap parking placard, Long Term Disability and other "benefits" just for being obese - morbidly obese. It is already possible for people to get these things mentioned in the previous comments without the classification of Obesity as a disease.
See, I can see maybe getting a temporary one, like six months while they work on themselves. However, I think if progress is not continuous, benefits should be cut off because they're not wanting to live life anyway, if they're throwing it away like that. Unless there's a hormonal/chemical/etc disorder behind the obesity, this.
^^This. I think if the person CAN fix their situation, they SHOULD. Disability benefits should be cut off after a certain time if that person refuses to do anything to help themselves. My husband was unemployed for two years and we had to get unemployment. He had to prove that he was actively searching for work every week, and was struggling to find it. He just didn't sit back on his butt and collect weekly paychecks. This is the same way disability should be managed for people who CAN fix themselves but don't WANT to. I feel the same way about welfare recipients.0 -
Thanks for the clarification! I was referring more back to a time when pre-existing conditions were part of my family's insurance plan. Husband had just earned his pilot wings and when we went to update our insurance (not health, but life) one of the questions asked of him was "Are you a pilot?". He lied and said no, because had he said yes, he would have been denied. However, I was worried about the fraud he just committed, so I made him go back and tell the insurance agent.
I work in life insruance and you wouldn't have been denied for life insurance totally, we insure lots of pilots. You would have probably had an exclusion that if he died while piloting a plane it wouldn't have been paid - but if a plane crashed that he was riding on, it would have been. I believe each company handles a bit different but there are also scuba diving exclusions, race car driver exclusions etc.0 -
Does this mean I can call into work obese?0
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Whether they classify Obesity as a disease or not, it is not going to change the mind set that made us all (the collective fat crowd) obese in the first place. I do think it could assist with getting things paid for by insurance that are not otherwise covered. I know from experience (working in insurance and being a fat kid) that nutritionist visits are often not covered or are offered for three sessions, etc. For those people who are looking to get healthy and make change in their lives, this could be a positive thing. For those who are looking to stay in their current situation, this will be irrelevant. My ex husband was succesful in getting Social Security, a handicap parking placard, Long Term Disability and other "benefits" just for being obese - morbidly obese. It is already possible for people to get these things mentioned in the previous comments without the classification of Obesity as a disease.
See, I can see maybe getting a temporary one, like six months while they work on themselves. However, I think if progress is not continuous, benefits should be cut off because they're not wanting to live life anyway, if they're throwing it away like that. Unless there's a hormonal/chemical/etc disorder behind the obesity, this.
^^This. I think if the person CAN fix their situation, they SHOULD. Disability benefits should be cut off after a certain time if that person refuses to do anything to help themselves. My husband was unemployed for two years and we had to get unemployment. He had to prove that he was actively searching for work every week, and was struggling to find it. He just didn't sit back on his butt and collect weekly paychecks. This is the same way disability should be managed for people who CAN fix themselves but don't WANT to. I feel the same way about welfare recipients.
AND, perhaps if his benefits had been cut off instead of allowing him to sit home and never walk further than the closest parking spot he would not have died at 41. I needed some help as well - I took it until I was able to do it myself. Now, I am healthy and strong and looking at a much longer life than 41. I can see both sides.0 -
OMG +++ AMA recognizes Obesity as a DISEASE! +++ Obesity causes disease and adverse health conditions! What a cop out... Yeah some folks have hormonal issues but the vast majority don't!
So I guess we can all pat ourselves on the back, we are curing or have cured a disease!
I wonder if I can bill my insurance company?? :laugh:
Maybe I can write off all my gym expenses as medical expenses now... I wonder if the IRS will start targeting Fitness people now? :bigsmile: :laugh:
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Obesity is a disease people.
Like a lot of things:
Lazy is a disease
Ignorant is a disease
Overeating is a disease
Couch Potato is a disease
Driving loops in parking lots for the best spot is a disease
Taking the elevator instead of the stairs is a disease
And
Trying to ensure that no one feels like anything is "their fault," is a disease.
Lazy: Physically, yes. So sorry I don't always have the energy after getting kids up and ready, working all day, helping kids with homework, getting them dinner, arguing over homework, dinner, and dessert (or lack thereof), and wrestling them into the shower and off to bed. By myself, because I'm all they have. I am physically lazy because I am mentally wiped.
Ignorant: No. That would be you. If you'd stuck to, they don't get off their butts and they eat crap, or too much, or hell, even both, that would be a fair statement. But you absolutely cannot make a blanket comment that all obese people are ignorant unless you know every single obese person personally. No? What about half? Still no? A third? 10%? 1% ... Still no, huh? Then (and I don't think I've ever said this on a thread before, but it's warranted) shut up and do some research. Because that's what I do every day. That's what my obese rocket scientist friend does every day. My obese Stanford engineering alumni friends? They don't do much research, but I guarantee they'd kick your *kitten* in any category. Yes, even how many calories is in the gumbo they're making.
Overeating: Again, yes. If you are sleep-deprived, stressed, or just plain bored and don't pay attention, overeating can be easy to do. Valid. (But not for all - there are people with legitimate disorders that screw up how their bodies metabolize things.)
Couch Potato: I'll accept this, except for some people who are active, yet still eat more than they take in because they overestimate how much they burned and underestimate how many calories are in their food. And many of us are not "Couch Potatoes," but rather "Chair Potatoes"; we sit on the way to work, at work, and on the way home from work. We sit at the dinner table. We do, briefly, sit on the couch or in bed to relax from the mental exhaustion of work, kids, finances, etc, but most of our sitting is for functional reasons. But we still don't make that 30 minutes of exercise a priority, and that is our bad,
Driving loops: Yes, I drive loops. For any spot, not the best spot. So you always park as far away as you can find, even if it's raining? Even if you're in a hurry, you'll *kitten* up the spot you're passing anyway, just to park out there and get some exercise? Congrats to you, my friend, because by then I just usually want to rush home to get more work done.
Taking the elevator: Valid. Unless you're going up 22 flights of stairs, because who wants to work up a sweat as they walk into a professional setting?? We actually don't have stairs as an option unless there's an emergency; our floor is locked so once you leave, you can only get back in by elevator.
Avoiding responsibility for actions: Valid. As you can see, however, I and many others DO take responsibility for our actions. I accept that I made myself this way. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still obese, however. Unfortunately, recognizing the problem doesn't make it go away. Only doing something about it, consistently over time, will.
By the way, no one ever said that if it's a disease, it's one that isn't caused by your actions. Type II diabetes is a disease, lung cancer is a disease, cirrhosis is a disease, AIDS is a disease... and all are often caused by our own actions. So, in turn, I will say that if you don't want to be perceived as ignorant yourself, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge millions of people that you don't know.0 -
Whether they classify Obesity as a disease or not, it is not going to change the mind set that made us all (the collective fat crowd) obese in the first place. I do think it could assist with getting things paid for by insurance that are not otherwise covered. I know from experience (working in insurance and being a fat kid) that nutritionist visits are often not covered or are offered for three sessions, etc. For those people who are looking to get healthy and make change in their lives, this could be a positive thing. For those who are looking to stay in their current situation, this will be irrelevant. My ex husband was succesful in getting Social Security, a handicap parking placard, Long Term Disability and other "benefits" just for being obese - morbidly obese. It is already possible for people to get these things mentioned in the previous comments without the classification of Obesity as a disease.
See, I can see maybe getting a temporary one, like six months while they work on themselves. However, I think if progress is not continuous, benefits should be cut off because they're not wanting to live life anyway, if they're throwing it away like that. Unless there's a hormonal/chemical/etc disorder behind the obesity, this.
^^This. I think if the person CAN fix their situation, they SHOULD. Disability benefits should be cut off after a certain time if that person refuses to do anything to help themselves. My husband was unemployed for two years and we had to get unemployment. He had to prove that he was actively searching for work every week, and was struggling to find it. He just didn't sit back on his butt and collect weekly paychecks. This is the same way disability should be managed for people who CAN fix themselves but don't WANT to. I feel the same way about welfare recipients.
AND, perhaps if his benefits had been cut off instead of allowing him to sit home and never walk further than the closest parking spot he would not have died at 41. I needed some help as well - I took it until I was able to do it myself. Now, I am healthy and strong and looking at a much longer life than 41. I can see both sides.
I'm so sorry for your loss. And I understand the temporary assistance. Yes, I have been on welfare for some periods of time, when I was a single mom between jobs (still a single mom, but never between jobs anymore), or at a low-paying job on maternity leave ten years ago. That said, I agree that it should be just that: temporary, with the recipient putting in the effort to get where they need to be. SO happy for you for making the change!! Congrats!0 -
I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled
A lot of people use diseases (and obesity already) to try to get disability.
The people who are already disabled for this reason might find themselves told that they now have a treatable disease. Go see your doctor, get treated, and welcome back to the working world!
Did not think of that. I really, really hope that's how it plays out!! I like the way you think! 0 -
I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled
You should read the latest version of the American Disabilities Act. According to the law, an individual is considered disabled when some medical condition prevents normal daily functioning.
A cancer patient was receiving chemo treatments and once he returned to his job after going into remission, he was immediately fired. He sued for discrimination under the ADA and won. The courts determined that the inability to produce healthy cells is a disability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADA_Amendments_Act_of_20080 -
This. Thanks for this.I think there is potential for both good and bad outcomes.
The Good: if classfying obesity as a disease allows more focus on preventative measures and allows for comprehensive and multi-faceted treatment include therapy, nutirtion education and physical therapy (and/or personal training) then it is great.
The Bad: some people may feel even less accountable for their condition, because it's a disease, which implies it's outside their control. Also, as was mentioned on the news this morning, it might be just another way to give companies a the green light to keep pushing products and medication at people without actually targeting the root of the problem. Finally, if it is another reason for insurers to deny converage, that is very scary, especially since 1/3 of americans are obese (according to the stats I hear this morning).0 -
@ Brittanyd83's.. I agree with you 100%0
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Remember that the word "disease" can be broken up into Dis and ease. It's the body at dis-ease.0
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I work in Human Resources; just think of the disability cases.....
Diseased =/= Disabled
You should read the latest version of the American Disabilities Act. According to the law, an individual is considered disabled when some medical condition prevents normal daily functioning.
A cancer patient was receiving chemo treatments and once he returned to his job after going into remission, he was immediately fired. He sued for discrimination under the ADA and won. The courts determined that the inability to produce healthy cells is a disability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADA_Amendments_Act_of_2008
I'm saying it's not automatic. You don't automatically go on disability because you are diagnosed with a disease.
I work with a woman who leaves X times a week to have treatments for her breast cancer. She's not disabled. She's still doing all the things she did before she was diagnosed. She's lucky she can, as disability would be a HUGE pay cut for her.
People get diagnosed with diseases all the time. I worked with a woman who had MS too; she actually never told anyone else here but me that she had it. She's not on disability, even though at times it actually does make it impossible for her to work.
My extra weight does not hinder me in any way from doing my job. I think the number of people who actually *cannot* work because of their weight is not going to magically increase because of this decision. People have been going on disability for this for years now; there was nothing stopping people before, so I don't think this is going to suddenly mean tons of people will opt for disability.
If it did... let's just say another 100,000 people went on disability. Well, maybe we'd get another 100,000 people off unemployment, since the jobs those people were doing would suddenly be open. Who knows. But I highly doubt we're going to see a news story about a mass exodus any time soon. Most people I know who have jobs right now are looking to keep them, not get themselves declared unable to work.0 -
My brother and both grew up morbidly obese. He says that he is a second hand eater and has McRipples (his new name for the obesity disease). LOL
Because our parents ate bad and we were fed bad things and we weren't taught about nutrition.
I do want to add though, we weren't lazy when we were kids. I stopped joining sports because the teachers and other kids made me feel shame about it. When we joined high school we were geeks, joined the JROTC's at our schools and never sat out on the sides likes during physical training. We ran in formation and did other exercises the best we could. We were poor so we rarely had cars, so we walked everywhere until high school when we moved into a rural area. Then we just had junkers.
Our mom worked in sheet metal so she was able to eat a lot of calories from the heavy lifting, standing, and walking she did all day but since she was never taught about nutrition she didn't understand why she could eat so much and not become obese and she loved us so she didn't think that anything was wrong with our fatness. She literally thought we were naturally that way. She didn't start becoming obese until she got hurt on the job and doctors wouldn't allow her to work and because she didn't know about nutrition she didn't know that her inactivity meant she couldn't eat the same.
My mom and I had to learn on our own as adults. The more we learn and understand and have goals set about being healthy, we're making our way there. My brother learned earlier than us and he lost 150lbs.
Also, did you guys know that 1/3 of the US still does not have internet connection. I think that this disease thing can open doors that many people do not have access to. I don't think that alcoholism is a disease and I'm sure it's not surprise after reading this but a big majority of my family are alcoholics. I don't really think that obesity is a disease BUT I do think that this will open doors to education and inexpensive to possibly free (like AA) help that people need.0 -
I dont think alcoholism is a disease any more than gambling or anything else
there are factors that make someone more prone to being addicted but that can take many forms
noone would call being addicted to being fit a disease....would they?0 -
Yes. If a fitness buff is literally addicted to being fit, then their "fitness" addiction is considered a psychological disease. I doubt you'll find many people who persistently, compulsively perform fitness-based behaviors and have withdrawal symptoms when they are unable to "be fit," but I could see someone with addictive-compulsive tendencies becoming addicted to "fitness".0
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I had not thought about implications where higher insurance rates come in. I thought it was good because it would force insurances to cover surgery and prescriptions. (I am not advocating either but to each their own.) Plus dare I hope if I ever lose all the weight I need to this means my insurance will cover surgery to help with my extra skin?0
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I think there are many closed minded people on this thread. I also believe that some should do a little research before jumping to conclusions.
Obesity is not only caused by lazyness, lack of will power or poor upbringing. There are many health issues that can cause someone to become overweight including family history. If declaring obesity a disease helps people get the help they need to lose the weight why should anyone judge that.
Alcoholism, anorexia and gambling are all labeled addiction diseases and there is help provided to them to overcome their addiction. Which again is not due to a lack of will power, lazyness or poor upbringing it is a problem within the brain. So if someone is addicted to food and labeling it a disease helps someone, Why would we fight that!
if your not overweight your health insurance will not go up. If you are overweight the only way your health ins will go up is if you go to the doctors and dignosed with a disease. This may also help people get past the stigma of just being fat. Maybe the doctors will recognize unlying issues before they chalk it up to lazyness. If my doctor would have listened to me and had me tested for a thyroid problem earlier on i may not have gained as much weight as i did. Instead I was told that i needed to exercise and eat better...he was closedminded when i told him i do exercise and eat right...
As a side note: everyone on this website is here either to lose weight or avoid becoming over weight...so the negative undertone in some peoples posts are pretty sad and should rethink why they are on a weight lose site if they are judging others...0 -
If Obesity was a disease, it would of been an issue 20-40 years ago... as technology and comfort has increased so has Obesity.. coincidence? I really doubt it.. People are getting lazier and food choices are getting worse. Also if its a disease, why does it only seem to be a problem in a few of the 1st world countries?
This this this this THIS! Best response I've seen!!0
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