Low carb diets - there is no way they can limit of 25 to 50 carbs a day?
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I'm similar, so I just use zoodles and a great bolognese or cheesy sauce and call it a day!<snip> I mostly pre-plan, and the internal conversation goes something like this: "I feel like chicken casserole and rice. How much of the casserole will be a satisfying amount? Hrm.. about 200g. How much does that leave for rice? 50g? Oh that is just a stupid amount. I will skip the rice and just have the casserole on its own in a slightly larger portion and add a bit of cauliflower as a base". <snip>
This is what happened with me and baked ziti. I *love* a good baked ziti, but the pasta just won't sit well on my stomach. I keep trying it, because my doc requires I try them all every two weeks, but it doesn't do me well. So, I just make the ziti with half the pasta and eat around the pasta in my bowl. Hubby gets my pasta and I still get all the goodness.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I took just the non starchy vegetables from today's lunch and breakfast and a prior night's dinner (haven't had dinner yet) and got 38 net carbs. I'm sure eating brussels and carrots twice didn't help, but this was not an especially atypical total for me, and there are lots of other vegetables in the same ballpark (like celeriac, green beans, beets, for just a few I've eaten recently and likely will eat tonight).
Not at all saying you can't do keto and eat lots of vegetables, but I would have to worry about the carbs in my veggies or the amount of veggies I ate more than I'd personally like to. (Of course more significantly these meals also included blueberries, cantaloupe, and potatoes, and I have some fresh local corn I'm planning to eat soon, etc.)
Which obviously means nothing for what anyone else should do, but just the idea that it's a crazy thing to think would be difficult is wrong.
Breakfast
38 g spinach (0)
38 g mushrooms (1)
93 g broccoli (4)
Lunch
67 g brussels sprouts (3)
100 g carrots (7)
117 g cauliflower (3)
Dinner:
129 g cucumber (4)
2 cups arugula (0)
27 g onions (3)
1.3 small whole tomato (not sure why I didn't weigh) (4)
52 g carrots (4)
120 g brussels sprouts (6)
Very cool, lemurcat12! 38g is a ketogenic level of carbohydrate so, at least for today, you wouldn't have had to modify your vegetable consumption in order to eat low carb.
I completely understand where you're coming from with your thoughts regarding worrying about the carbs in vegetables. Early on when I first started eating this way I found myself doing crazy things like not using onion and garlic because they're relatively higher carb. I had to actually tell myself that was ridiculous and consciously decide to cook freely the same as I always had. It's very easy to get into a sort of if low is good, lower must be better mindset when those 10 or 20 grams of carbs you "save" may not (I know this isn't true for everyone) make one bit of difference at the end of the day.
I do still need to be mindful of my carbs, if I'm having fruit (other than berries) with breakfast I probably can't have beans with dinner sort of thing. But I can and do cook/prepare my food with as many vegetables as I want without consideration of the carb counts. Which I guess was my original point before the lettuce fiasco -- a lot of people (not everyone and not always but a lot) naturally eat a low carb friendly amount of vegetables without trying to.
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Of course the problem would be that if you were at 38 with vegetables you'd have, what, 12 left total to be in ketosis?
I personally couldn't do it (well, of course I could if I had to or had strong health reasons to, but I do not), but I agree that someone who wants to do it and get in the vegetables absolutely can. I've never been anti low carb.
What honestly bothers me about the low-carb discussion on the forums lately is the insistence (and I'm never sure what the point is) that you can have a healthy diet without ANY carbs, as if that were desirable. Most low carbers aren't no carbers, and even if you can live because your body makes glucose most people would not get the micros they need without any carbs. I don't think the idea that diets without vegetables is a good idea should be promoted. (And obviously most low carbers here do eat vegetables or at least don't promote not eating them. But it seems like lately there are more people who want to say that "carbs" are bad and that includes even vegetables or to tell people who don't want to eat vegetables that going low carb is a healthy option for them, because no vegetables are needed.)0 -
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Man...b****es be crazy!
(I seem to think that all the forums have turned into are just a bunch of agreements to disagree)0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »Man...b****es be crazy!
(I seem to think that all the forums have turned into are just a bunch of agreements to disagree)
lol - didnt you know Rockstar that some people actually enjoy argument or debate? It is like a competition called "who sounds the most intelligent will win"
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Man...b****es be crazy!
(I seem to think that all the forums have turned into are just a bunch of agreements to disagree)
lol - didnt you know Rockstar that some people actually enjoy argument or debate? It is like a competition called "who sounds the most intelligent will win"
Yeah, sure, its just one big d*** measuring contest. I make assertions, I debate on occasion, but if I am wrong, or have a possibility of being wrong, I acknowledge it and accept new information. I feel one learns best with corrected assertion. But I have not seen one post in this entire thread where someone's mind was changed no matter how many links to studies are presented. They find the fallacies. Heck, sometimes I do that (not always). Maybe I missed it, and maybe I usually miss it, but that seems to be the case in every post, that no minds are ever changed on debatable topics. That being the case, it is just a bunch of ranting and raving, and nothing changes.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I took just the non starchy vegetables from today's lunch and breakfast and a prior night's dinner (haven't had dinner yet) and got 38 net carbs. I'm sure eating brussels and carrots twice didn't help, but this was not an especially atypical total for me, and there are lots of other vegetables in the same ballpark (like celeriac, green beans, beets, for just a few I've eaten recently and likely will eat tonight).
Not at all saying you can't do keto and eat lots of vegetables, but I would have to worry about the carbs in my veggies or the amount of veggies I ate more than I'd personally like to. (Of course more significantly these meals also included blueberries, cantaloupe, and potatoes, and I have some fresh local corn I'm planning to eat soon, etc.)
Which obviously means nothing for what anyone else should do, but just the idea that it's a crazy thing to think would be difficult is wrong.
Breakfast
38 g spinach (0)
38 g mushrooms (1)
93 g broccoli (4)
Lunch
67 g brussels sprouts (3)
100 g carrots (7)
117 g cauliflower (3)
Dinner:
129 g cucumber (4)
2 cups arugula (0)
27 g onions (3)
1.3 small whole tomato (not sure why I didn't weigh) (4)
52 g carrots (4)
120 g brussels sprouts (6)
Thanks for posting this. You made a very clear point.0 -
harlequin0318 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »My soft limit is 30g, although I try to keep it below 20g per day. I'll end today with 9g of net carbs. Granted, my portions right now are about half what they normally would be, so I'd still stay below 30g easily. I feel better without carbs, especially breads and pastas, and limiting those allows me to easily limit my calories without ever being hungry. It's that simple for me.
"Can't." teehee That's funny right there.
considering you're barely eating 1000 calories and you are barely eating any vegetables- it's not really a surprise.
A diet consisting mostly of cheese and meat isn't really carb laden- but no one who actually eats vegetables is going to be able to keep carbs that low. It's not happening.
That's really not true about the vegetables; if it's a priority even the lowest carb diets have room for fruits and vegetables. You -- and anyone else -- can get an idea of what I mean by looking at your own fruits and vegetables. I think it might surprise some how negligible the carb counts are. For example from your diary:
Sunday: 58g Total | 51g Net
Bananas, Blackberries
Monday: 14g Total | 8g Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno
Tuesday: 38 Total | 25 Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Black Beans, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno,
Now imagine how many vegetables you could eat if you were mindful of the carb counts and chose more low carb friendly options... it's a lot. Low carb is not low vegetable by necessity.
my veggie counts have been insufferably low- I normally eat 2-3 times that in a day. I've been on a hellova budget.
There is no way you can eat that many servings of veggies and stay under 20 grams- my black beans alone spiked me to 24. A banana? super high (thankfully I'm only eating them this week b/c of weird calf issues I'm not sure are strain or cramps)
I regularly eat a whole bag of steamables that are "3.5 servings"- (three point five servings- HA).
I'm not saying you can't do low-ish carb- but there isn't any world in which you live where if you eat a decent amount of veggie you're staying low carb.
Ok, I'll try this one more time since this seems to be a common misconception here. We can use my diary this time -- I picked out a couple of the higher days from last week.
Wednesday: 30 Total | 20 Net
684g or 1.5 pounds or 8.55 servings of: Cabbage, Onions, Garlic, Cucumbers, Lettuce, Peppers, and Tomatoes
Saturday: 42g Total | 27g Net
842g or 1.85 pounds or 10.25 servings of: Cucumber, Bananas, Onions, Peppers, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Green Beans
These are not low-ish levels of carbs; this is considered a very low, ketogenic level of carbohydrate. Low carb does not mean low vegetable -- that's a personal choice just like with any other macro split.
So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity
.....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
@harlequin0318 I started eating very LCHF for pain management. After 30 days of eating < 50 grams of carbs my joint and muscle pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 or like no pain almost. In my case this diet is VERY anti-inflammatory.
I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years and eat about 2600 calories to lose about 3 pounds a month on average. Currently eating at 3000 daily to maintain for a while to help prevent regains in the future.
Actually I stuff myself on fats and keep protein down to 70-100 grams daily. I know it sounds crazy but I can only hold so much fats. With carbs I could eat more even after just eating hundreds of carb calories. Now I have to just push the food back or I would gag.
My only objective was pain management and was very success. Getting off carbs cured my IBS that had been life defining for the past 40 years after six months. Finally I am looking forward to a long life of improving health vs an early and painful death.
On the IBS cure it could be in total or part due to the 5 tablespoons of coconut oil that I put in my first cup of coffee of the day. Some claim it is anti - Bacterial, anti - Viral and anti - Fungal by nature. I added coconut oil (need to taper into using it) and cut out sugar and all grains at the same time because I was trying to dodge the cancer risk to taking Enbrel injections for pain management.
I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others but after 11 months I have found no reason yet to even considering living on carbs again. Best of success what ever path you take.
As an old man I beg you that are much younger than I am to get a grip on any health issues that is diet related ASAP before you get damage like I now have. For 40 years I did not know it was my diet causing my pain and deformities.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »harlequin0318 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »My soft limit is 30g, although I try to keep it below 20g per day. I'll end today with 9g of net carbs. Granted, my portions right now are about half what they normally would be, so I'd still stay below 30g easily. I feel better without carbs, especially breads and pastas, and limiting those allows me to easily limit my calories without ever being hungry. It's that simple for me.
"Can't." teehee That's funny right there.
considering you're barely eating 1000 calories and you are barely eating any vegetables- it's not really a surprise.
A diet consisting mostly of cheese and meat isn't really carb laden- but no one who actually eats vegetables is going to be able to keep carbs that low. It's not happening.
That's really not true about the vegetables; if it's a priority even the lowest carb diets have room for fruits and vegetables. You -- and anyone else -- can get an idea of what I mean by looking at your own fruits and vegetables. I think it might surprise some how negligible the carb counts are. For example from your diary:
Sunday: 58g Total | 51g Net
Bananas, Blackberries
Monday: 14g Total | 8g Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno
Tuesday: 38 Total | 25 Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Black Beans, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno,
Now imagine how many vegetables you could eat if you were mindful of the carb counts and chose more low carb friendly options... it's a lot. Low carb is not low vegetable by necessity.
my veggie counts have been insufferably low- I normally eat 2-3 times that in a day. I've been on a hellova budget.
There is no way you can eat that many servings of veggies and stay under 20 grams- my black beans alone spiked me to 24. A banana? super high (thankfully I'm only eating them this week b/c of weird calf issues I'm not sure are strain or cramps)
I regularly eat a whole bag of steamables that are "3.5 servings"- (three point five servings- HA).
I'm not saying you can't do low-ish carb- but there isn't any world in which you live where if you eat a decent amount of veggie you're staying low carb.
Ok, I'll try this one more time since this seems to be a common misconception here. We can use my diary this time -- I picked out a couple of the higher days from last week.
Wednesday: 30 Total | 20 Net
684g or 1.5 pounds or 8.55 servings of: Cabbage, Onions, Garlic, Cucumbers, Lettuce, Peppers, and Tomatoes
Saturday: 42g Total | 27g Net
842g or 1.85 pounds or 10.25 servings of: Cucumber, Bananas, Onions, Peppers, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Green Beans
These are not low-ish levels of carbs; this is considered a very low, ketogenic level of carbohydrate. Low carb does not mean low vegetable -- that's a personal choice just like with any other macro split.
So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity .....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
@harlequin0318 I started eating very LCHF for pain management. After 30 days of eating < 50 grams of carbs my joint and muscle pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 or like no pain almost. In my case this diet is VERY anti-inflammatory.
I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years and eat about 2600 calories to lose about 3 pounds a month on average. Currently eating at 3000 daily to maintain for a while to help prevent regains in the future.
Actually I stuff myself on fats and keep protein down to 70-100 grams daily. I know it sounds crazy but I can only hold so much fats. With carbs I could eat more even after just eating hundreds of carb calories. Now I have to just push the food back or I would gag.
My only objective was pain management and was very success. Getting off carbs cured my IBS that had been life defining for the past 40 years after six months. Finally I am looking forward to a long life of improving health vs an early and painful death.
On the IBS cure it could be in total or part due to the 5 tablespoons of coconut oil that I put in my first cup of coffee of the day. Some claim it is anti - Bacterial, anti - Viral and anti - Fungal by nature. I added coconut oil (need to taper into using it) and cut out sugar and all grains at the same time because I was trying to dodge the cancer risk to taking Enbrel injections for pain management.
I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others but after 11 months I have found no reason yet to even considering living on carbs again. Best of success what ever path you take.
As an old man I beg you that are much younger than I am to get a grip on any health issues that is diet related ASAP before you get damage like I now have. For 40 years I did not know it was my diet causing my pain and deformities.
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »harlequin0318 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »My soft limit is 30g, although I try to keep it below 20g per day. I'll end today with 9g of net carbs. Granted, my portions right now are about half what they normally would be, so I'd still stay below 30g easily. I feel better without carbs, especially breads and pastas, and limiting those allows me to easily limit my calories without ever being hungry. It's that simple for me.
"Can't." teehee That's funny right there.
considering you're barely eating 1000 calories and you are barely eating any vegetables- it's not really a surprise.
A diet consisting mostly of cheese and meat isn't really carb laden- but no one who actually eats vegetables is going to be able to keep carbs that low. It's not happening.
That's really not true about the vegetables; if it's a priority even the lowest carb diets have room for fruits and vegetables. You -- and anyone else -- can get an idea of what I mean by looking at your own fruits and vegetables. I think it might surprise some how negligible the carb counts are. For example from your diary:
Sunday: 58g Total | 51g Net
Bananas, Blackberries
Monday: 14g Total | 8g Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno
Tuesday: 38 Total | 25 Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Black Beans, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno,
Now imagine how many vegetables you could eat if you were mindful of the carb counts and chose more low carb friendly options... it's a lot. Low carb is not low vegetable by necessity.
my veggie counts have been insufferably low- I normally eat 2-3 times that in a day. I've been on a hellova budget.
There is no way you can eat that many servings of veggies and stay under 20 grams- my black beans alone spiked me to 24. A banana? super high (thankfully I'm only eating them this week b/c of weird calf issues I'm not sure are strain or cramps)
I regularly eat a whole bag of steamables that are "3.5 servings"- (three point five servings- HA).
I'm not saying you can't do low-ish carb- but there isn't any world in which you live where if you eat a decent amount of veggie you're staying low carb.
Ok, I'll try this one more time since this seems to be a common misconception here. We can use my diary this time -- I picked out a couple of the higher days from last week.
Wednesday: 30 Total | 20 Net
684g or 1.5 pounds or 8.55 servings of: Cabbage, Onions, Garlic, Cucumbers, Lettuce, Peppers, and Tomatoes
Saturday: 42g Total | 27g Net
842g or 1.85 pounds or 10.25 servings of: Cucumber, Bananas, Onions, Peppers, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Green Beans
These are not low-ish levels of carbs; this is considered a very low, ketogenic level of carbohydrate. Low carb does not mean low vegetable -- that's a personal choice just like with any other macro split.
So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity .....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
@harlequin0318 I started eating very LCHF for pain management. After 30 days of eating < 50 grams of carbs my joint and muscle pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 or like no pain almost. In my case this diet is VERY anti-inflammatory.
I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years and eat about 2600 calories to lose about 3 pounds a month on average. Currently eating at 3000 daily to maintain for a while to help prevent regains in the future.
Actually I stuff myself on fats and keep protein down to 70-100 grams daily. I know it sounds crazy but I can only hold so much fats. With carbs I could eat more even after just eating hundreds of carb calories. Now I have to just push the food back or I would gag.
My only objective was pain management and was very success. Getting off carbs cured my IBS that had been life defining for the past 40 years after six months. Finally I am looking forward to a long life of improving health vs an early and painful death.
On the IBS cure it could be in total or part due to the 5 tablespoons of coconut oil that I put in my first cup of coffee of the day. Some claim it is anti - Bacterial, anti - Viral and anti - Fungal by nature. I added coconut oil (need to taper into using it) and cut out sugar and all grains at the same time because I was trying to dodge the cancer risk to taking Enbrel injections for pain management.
I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others but after 11 months I have found no reason yet to even considering living on carbs again. Best of success what ever path you take.
As an old man I beg you that are much younger than I am to get a grip on any health issues that is diet related ASAP before you get damage like I now have. For 40 years I did not know it was my diet causing my pain and deformities.
Gale, congrats on finding what is working for you.
For some IBS is a constant struggle. You have indicated you eat 2600 calories daily with 8 TBSP of coconut oil being a staple as well as eggs and bacon. The coconut oil is half your fat intake(2600 less the carbs <50 grams and protein of 100 grams ((the high end for you)) ) and backing out the fat from eggs and bacon since you said your regularly consume 6 strips and 3 fried eggs for breakfast. What else is in your diet with regard to fat so other people struggling with IBS and/or chronic pain can an idea of what you eat?
Like many things there are options. For many people the things you eat they wouldn't be able to. The link below is just one example of listings of foods people avoid who follow that particular links' information
http://www.helpforibs.com/diet/trigger2.asp
Again, what is it you are eating besides the coconut oil, bacon and eggs for your fat intake. I'm sure there are people out there reading this and are curious. Again, continued success.
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mirandadawn2 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »7 years ago I lost over 115lbs on a low carb high fiber diet which I maintained until the last 18 months. Since graduating school in May I've had about 35 lbs to re-lose. I've been on MFP for over 100 days now and until 3 days ago I had lost 11ish pounds. Not bad steady progress. However, I was ready to try something different so I'm resulting back to a low carb diet for 15 days to see what happens. Today is the end of day 3 and I feel great. I'm less bloated and not hungry at all.
So to your questions...
I eat about 50 carbs per day, 25 grams fiber (25 net carbs)
A low carb diet to me is 100 grams total per day regardless of fiber. I honestly don't know why I fight this form of eating, because it tends to work best for me out of all other approaches.
I'm very active, so with 50ish total carbs per day it's easy for me to maintain Ketosis. I too love fruit and veggies, but with 50g carbs i find it easy to get both in. I eat berries and avocados mostly, but whatever I want as long as it fits.
Again, day 3 and I'm looking forward to the progress I'll make. I have an open diary and you're welcome to add me if you'd like to see what I've been eating. Calories set to 1490 for a slower loss.
What is in your high fiber diet? I'm having a problem getting in enough fiber. Thanks!
I don't eat a high fiber diet, just the recommended 25 for being a woman. Hoesntly I eat chia and berries because they have the least carbs and calories. 2 servings of chia and 1 serving raspberries is already 18 grams for about 185 calories. The rest comes from vegitables.0 -
harlequin0318 wrote: »So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity .....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
It's completely possible. Keto is defined as less than 50 grams of carbs per day, but most keto'ers eat 20g or less. I like many others eat MORE vegetables on keto than I ate when I was eating S.A.D. There's also the sub group of LC (low carb) which is defined as 150 grams of carbs or less. I, like many others, have found that the lower I go in carbs, the easier it is to maintain a low carb/keto WOE. After you get keto adapted you will be amazed on how much you don't eat. For example, I made myself a 800 kcal breakfast, before keto I would've ate that and still been hungry, today, I couldn't finish it. Satiety is a reason why most keto/lc'ers practice IF (intermittent fasting). We simply find ourselves less hungry therefore our eating windows shrink.0 -
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I had IBS symptoms since I was a child. As an adult I had gotten it mostly under control with more fiber when needed and taking probiotics had helped me tremendously.
About a month into Keto I had run out of my probiotic and I order it online so I had to wait for it to come. I've had that poor planning before and always ended up not feeling as well on the days i was waiting for it to arrive. This time was different. I had actually forgotten that I had ordered it and when it came, I realized I hadn't felt bad at all. I decided to wait and not take them since I didn't feel any symptoms.
The only time in almost 4 months I've had any symptoms was when I ate a higher carb amount than normal for me one day about 2 months into eating this way.
Maybe it was a total coincidence, but I'm not interested in testing it further.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »harlequin0318 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »My soft limit is 30g, although I try to keep it below 20g per day. I'll end today with 9g of net carbs. Granted, my portions right now are about half what they normally would be, so I'd still stay below 30g easily. I feel better without carbs, especially breads and pastas, and limiting those allows me to easily limit my calories without ever being hungry. It's that simple for me.
"Can't." teehee That's funny right there.
considering you're barely eating 1000 calories and you are barely eating any vegetables- it's not really a surprise.
A diet consisting mostly of cheese and meat isn't really carb laden- but no one who actually eats vegetables is going to be able to keep carbs that low. It's not happening.
That's really not true about the vegetables; if it's a priority even the lowest carb diets have room for fruits and vegetables. You -- and anyone else -- can get an idea of what I mean by looking at your own fruits and vegetables. I think it might surprise some how negligible the carb counts are. For example from your diary:
Sunday: 58g Total | 51g Net
Bananas, Blackberries
Monday: 14g Total | 8g Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno
Tuesday: 38 Total | 25 Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Black Beans, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno,
Now imagine how many vegetables you could eat if you were mindful of the carb counts and chose more low carb friendly options... it's a lot. Low carb is not low vegetable by necessity.
my veggie counts have been insufferably low- I normally eat 2-3 times that in a day. I've been on a hellova budget.
There is no way you can eat that many servings of veggies and stay under 20 grams- my black beans alone spiked me to 24. A banana? super high (thankfully I'm only eating them this week b/c of weird calf issues I'm not sure are strain or cramps)
I regularly eat a whole bag of steamables that are "3.5 servings"- (three point five servings- HA).
I'm not saying you can't do low-ish carb- but there isn't any world in which you live where if you eat a decent amount of veggie you're staying low carb.
Ok, I'll try this one more time since this seems to be a common misconception here. We can use my diary this time -- I picked out a couple of the higher days from last week.
Wednesday: 30 Total | 20 Net
684g or 1.5 pounds or 8.55 servings of: Cabbage, Onions, Garlic, Cucumbers, Lettuce, Peppers, and Tomatoes
Saturday: 42g Total | 27g Net
842g or 1.85 pounds or 10.25 servings of: Cucumber, Bananas, Onions, Peppers, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Green Beans
These are not low-ish levels of carbs; this is considered a very low, ketogenic level of carbohydrate. Low carb does not mean low vegetable -- that's a personal choice just like with any other macro split.
So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity .....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
@harlequin0318 I started eating very LCHF for pain management. After 30 days of eating < 50 grams of carbs my joint and muscle pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 or like no pain almost. In my case this diet is VERY anti-inflammatory.
I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years and eat about 2600 calories to lose about 3 pounds a month on average. Currently eating at 3000 daily to maintain for a while to help prevent regains in the future.
Actually I stuff myself on fats and keep protein down to 70-100 grams daily. I know it sounds crazy but I can only hold so much fats. With carbs I could eat more even after just eating hundreds of carb calories. Now I have to just push the food back or I would gag.
My only objective was pain management and was very success. Getting off carbs cured my IBS that had been life defining for the past 40 years after six months. Finally I am looking forward to a long life of improving health vs an early and painful death.
On the IBS cure it could be in total or part due to the 5 tablespoons of coconut oil that I put in my first cup of coffee of the day. Some claim it is anti - Bacterial, anti - Viral and anti - Fungal by nature. I added coconut oil (need to taper into using it) and cut out sugar and all grains at the same time because I was trying to dodge the cancer risk to taking Enbrel injections for pain management.
I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others but after 11 months I have found no reason yet to even considering living on carbs again. Best of success what ever path you take.
As an old man I beg you that are much younger than I am to get a grip on any health issues that is diet related ASAP before you get damage like I now have. For 40 years I did not know it was my diet causing my pain and deformities.
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following.
I think your low carb bias panties are showing or you didn't read very carefully because it seems like you missed some important bits in your haste to shoot down his personal experience:
"In my case..."
"I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others..."
He even acknowledges his way isn't the only way:
"Best of success what ever path you take..."0 -
[/quote]
"It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following.[/quote]"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what LC'ers have been talking about. Low carb eating is not evil. Not eating carbs does not cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being moderate carb, or maybe it all had to do with being moderate carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating moderate carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Moderate carb can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Again, I don't think you are sounding particularly ugly toward low carb but at the same time, you really didn't want his diet change to get credit for his overall health improvement.
Just as you attributed your diet change to your improved health and included that it doesn't mean everyone would have the same result. The other poster had pretty much said the same thing.0 -
I can never get the quoting right on mobile when I need to remove a bunch of it! Ugh!0
-
@amusedmonkey it would medically be quite foolish to call carbs, protein or fats evil. Thankful eating carbs are not required for health so by cutting out most all carbs (<50 grams daily) it cut out most of my inflammation pain and cured my 40 year IBS condition. My health is not perfect and I have bone/joint damage/etc that I will take to the grave with me but I am better than it has been in the last 20 years. I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years. It is nice to be able to get out of the car, movie seat, etc by myself for a change. As you noted you respond to carbs much different than me. I added the coconut oil two months before I went off carbs cold turkey due to my carb addiction but it was only after I cut the carbs that my pain, IBS and weight started to improve. I really could care less what is curing long term health problems. I am just thankful I have a shot at being able to walk and talk all the way up until my death.
@_Terrapin_ and others thanks for your supporting mindsets. It is about 5 tablespoons of coconut oil I add to my first cup of coffee. Besides coconut oil, I eat coconut flakes, almonds, heavy whipping cream (36% butter fat milk), cottage cheese and some types of cheese from time to time then the bacon and fried eggs. Actually the only foods that I never plan to eat again are those which contain any type of sugar and/or grain. The above foods have some carbs but I can pig out on them and stay under 50 grams of carbs usually. The funny thing when I started taking my own heavy whipping cream to leave at the restaurant I had to cut back to two cups of coffee. I was drinking up to 4 cups with 10 mini cups of half and half per cup. That was a lot of carbs which never feel me up but when using the 36% butter fat milk I get stuffed and have to push it back.
I have learned new info over the last year and have make new eating decisions. In my case my food selection is simple. If it makes my quality of life better I eat it and lots of it when hungry. If it makes my quality of life worse I do not want to even touch it. I have an earned doctorate in Optometry so I can read and grasp most research at least as it applies to my life. The research quality is anywhere from awesome to self serving. Any study where it was 1 person or a group of 10,000 that last less than a year is about worthless in my view to know the long term results of that eating lifestyle.
When cutting out most all foods with sugar and/or grains and my pain dropped like a rock in 30 days and stayed that way for nearly a year now or cured a 40 year bout with IBS in a few months it does not take much effort to see a connection in my mind/case.
Again very low carb and very high fat seems to be working out great in my case. With Google one can do their own research today. Do NOT get your medical advice from anyone posting in web forums period. I learn a lot from web posts but use that info as a point to start my research on any given subject. If I can find three that agree on any subject I will often dig deeper. It is a must to read real research that is 180 degrees opposite of your viewpoint as well.
0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »harlequin0318 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »My soft limit is 30g, although I try to keep it below 20g per day. I'll end today with 9g of net carbs. Granted, my portions right now are about half what they normally would be, so I'd still stay below 30g easily. I feel better without carbs, especially breads and pastas, and limiting those allows me to easily limit my calories without ever being hungry. It's that simple for me.
"Can't." teehee That's funny right there.
considering you're barely eating 1000 calories and you are barely eating any vegetables- it's not really a surprise.
A diet consisting mostly of cheese and meat isn't really carb laden- but no one who actually eats vegetables is going to be able to keep carbs that low. It's not happening.
That's really not true about the vegetables; if it's a priority even the lowest carb diets have room for fruits and vegetables. You -- and anyone else -- can get an idea of what I mean by looking at your own fruits and vegetables. I think it might surprise some how negligible the carb counts are. For example from your diary:
Sunday: 58g Total | 51g Net
Bananas, Blackberries
Monday: 14g Total | 8g Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno
Tuesday: 38 Total | 25 Net
Stir-fry Veggies, Black Beans, Blackberries, Tomato, Green Pepper, Onion, Jalepeno,
Now imagine how many vegetables you could eat if you were mindful of the carb counts and chose more low carb friendly options... it's a lot. Low carb is not low vegetable by necessity.
my veggie counts have been insufferably low- I normally eat 2-3 times that in a day. I've been on a hellova budget.
There is no way you can eat that many servings of veggies and stay under 20 grams- my black beans alone spiked me to 24. A banana? super high (thankfully I'm only eating them this week b/c of weird calf issues I'm not sure are strain or cramps)
I regularly eat a whole bag of steamables that are "3.5 servings"- (three point five servings- HA).
I'm not saying you can't do low-ish carb- but there isn't any world in which you live where if you eat a decent amount of veggie you're staying low carb.
Ok, I'll try this one more time since this seems to be a common misconception here. We can use my diary this time -- I picked out a couple of the higher days from last week.
Wednesday: 30 Total | 20 Net
684g or 1.5 pounds or 8.55 servings of: Cabbage, Onions, Garlic, Cucumbers, Lettuce, Peppers, and Tomatoes
Saturday: 42g Total | 27g Net
842g or 1.85 pounds or 10.25 servings of: Cucumber, Bananas, Onions, Peppers, Lettuce, Tomatoes, Green Beans
These are not low-ish levels of carbs; this is considered a very low, ketogenic level of carbohydrate. Low carb does not mean low vegetable -- that's a personal choice just like with any other macro split.
So I just peeked through the last few days of your diary, out of keto-curiosity .....and that really is a small amount of vegetables (compared to what I normally eat ie. 400grams of cabbage in one serving). I've been interested in keto for its anti-inflammatory effects, so my question is, can a person that likes to eat for volume progressively switch to a keto diet where portion sizes are inevitably much smaller?
I mean obviously people here have successfully done that, but are you really reaching satiety and feeling full for hours? If so, how long did it take for you to adjust (I'm sure it's different for everyone, so anyone can chime in with experiences)
@harlequin0318 I started eating very LCHF for pain management. After 30 days of eating < 50 grams of carbs my joint and muscle pain dropped from a 7-8 level to 2-3 or like no pain almost. In my case this diet is VERY anti-inflammatory.
I am under 200 pounds for the first time in 22 years and eat about 2600 calories to lose about 3 pounds a month on average. Currently eating at 3000 daily to maintain for a while to help prevent regains in the future.
Actually I stuff myself on fats and keep protein down to 70-100 grams daily. I know it sounds crazy but I can only hold so much fats. With carbs I could eat more even after just eating hundreds of carb calories. Now I have to just push the food back or I would gag.
My only objective was pain management and was very success. Getting off carbs cured my IBS that had been life defining for the past 40 years after six months. Finally I am looking forward to a long life of improving health vs an early and painful death.
On the IBS cure it could be in total or part due to the 5 tablespoons of coconut oil that I put in my first cup of coffee of the day. Some claim it is anti - Bacterial, anti - Viral and anti - Fungal by nature. I added coconut oil (need to taper into using it) and cut out sugar and all grains at the same time because I was trying to dodge the cancer risk to taking Enbrel injections for pain management.
I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others but after 11 months I have found no reason yet to even considering living on carbs again. Best of success what ever path you take.
As an old man I beg you that are much younger than I am to get a grip on any health issues that is diet related ASAP before you get damage like I now have. For 40 years I did not know it was my diet causing my pain and deformities.
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following.
I think your low carb bias panties are showing or you didn't read very carefully because it seems like you missed some important bits in your haste to shoot down his personal experience:
"In my case..."
"I can not say what cutting out carbs can do for others..."
He even acknowledges his way isn't the only way:
"Best of success what ever path you take..."
Very mature
Having any "carb bias" in any direction is silly in my opinion. Food is not a religion, a political view or a life principle, and except in very particular cases it should not carry any moral undernotes.
While I highly respect him and feel that he is genuinely happy and passionate about his health improvements - like he should be, I have real bias against misinformation, and based on the body of replies on this website I believe I misinterpreted the last statement to mean "everyone who has food related issues should switch to low carb while they're still young", and for that I apologise.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »"It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what LC'ers have been talking about. Low carb eating is not evil. Not eating carbs does not cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being moderate carb, or maybe it all had to do with being moderate carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating moderate carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Moderate carb can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Again, I don't think you are sounding particularly ugly toward low carb but at the same time, you really didn't want his diet change to get credit for his overall health improvement.
Just as you attributed your diet change to your improved health and included that it doesn't mean everyone would have the same result. The other poster had pretty much said the same thing.
That's the thing, I did not attribute my improved health to my diet change nor to my carb ratio. To me, a person who does well on 20 carbs is exactly the same as a person who does well on 400 - someone who has found the right diet for them.
You may not be familiar with my posts, but I often attempt to spark that critical thinking fuse whenever any health claims are attributed to any diet, including my own. I often recognize a person's choice as valid and "not evil", which no enjoyable diet chosen out of free will really is. What's evil is when someone follows a certain diet they don't enjoy because they believe it brings them certain benefits, which may or may not be the case.
Here is an oversimplified example: a person has IBS and is triggered by apples (a common trigger). Goes low carb, stops eating apples, gets better. If the person enjoys low carb then that's that, but if they don't enjoy it and are forcing themselves into it for the sake of health benefits, then it's entirely unnecessary and if they dig just a little bit deeper and remove apples from their diet without having to give up other things they love they would be much happier.
The same exact thing applies to a person who is triggered by red meat (another common trigger) and goes vegan.
The same goes on for cutting sugar, artificial sweetener, gluten, dairy, or any kind of food/food group/substance for benefits that may be achieved in less extreme ways by just a little bit more of investigation.
You will often notice I'm not even against fad diets, cleanses, and things that I will never understand like meal replacement shakes, VLCD, or diet pills. If the person is fully aware that cleanses don't cleanse, fad diets are mostly water weight and meal replacements are known to make your wallet thinner for no good reason...etc then poking my nose further in would be rude. Adults and their choices - none of my business.
To be honest, it's not you or any other person here who is passionate about low carb I'm trying to target with my comments. You all seem to be doing really well and feeling good on your respective diets. The people I'm trying to reach are the "previous me's". People who, like I did, are trying to force themselves into something that makes them miserable when there might be another easily tolerated way to the same results. If there isn't an easier alternative and if some kind of restricted diet really is needed, at least they'll know they're only putting themselves through something out of necessity and from the lack of a better alternative.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I can never get the quoting right on mobile when I need to remove a bunch of it! Ugh!
you are not alone, the thing just loves to grab that closing bracket as part of the text you are trying to delete.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »"It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what @lemurcat12 was talking about. Carbs are not evil. They don't cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being low carb, or maybe it all had to do with being low carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating low carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Keto can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Eating a moderate carb diet I got rid of high blood pressure, high triglycerides, high LDL, low HDL, pre-diabetes, and my IBS is back to being dormant. It would be silly of me to suggest any of these changes are due to eating 150-200 grams of carbs and that everyone should eat that many to get the health benefits.
I've read about people going low fat high carb vegan getting the exact same results as you (and me), which makes me wonder if it has to do with people adopting a diet being more health-conscious and making more effort to get adequate nutrition than the kind of diet they're following."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's great that your diet has helped you directly or indirectly solve some of your health issues, but that's exactly what LC'ers have been talking about. Low carb eating is not evil. Not eating carbs does not cause pain and deformities. It's entirely possible certain health improvement results were due to certain changes in diet or habits that had nothing to do with being moderate carb, or maybe it all had to do with being moderate carb. Even if it were all attributed to eating moderate carb, how do you know someone else's experience would be the same? Moderate carb can actually be VERY inflammatory for some types of IBS (like I mentioned before I had a horrible experience with that).
Again, I don't think you are sounding particularly ugly toward low carb but at the same time, you really didn't want his diet change to get credit for his overall health improvement.
Just as you attributed your diet change to your improved health and included that it doesn't mean everyone would have the same result. The other poster had pretty much said the same thing.
That's the thing, I did not attribute my improved health to my diet change nor to my carb ratio. To me, a person who does well on 20 carbs is exactly the same as a person who does well on 400 - someone who has found the right diet for them.
You may not be familiar with my posts, but I often attempt to spark that critical thinking fuse whenever any health claims are attributed to any diet, including my own. I often recognize a person's choice as valid and "not evil", which no enjoyable diet chosen out of free will really is. What's evil is when someone follows a certain diet they don't enjoy because they believe it brings them certain benefits, which may or may not be the case.
Here is an oversimplified example: a person has IBS and is triggered by apples (a common trigger). Goes low carb, stops eating apples, gets better. If the person enjoys low carb then that's that, but if they don't enjoy it and are forcing themselves into it for the sake of health benefits, then it's entirely unnecessary and if they dig just a little bit deeper and remove apples from their diet without having to give up other things they love they would be much happier.
The same exact thing applies to a person who is triggered by red meat (another common trigger) and goes vegan.
The same goes on for cutting sugar, artificial sweetener, gluten, dairy, or any kind of food/food group/substance for benefits that may be achieved in less extreme ways by just a little bit more of investigation.
You will often notice I'm not even against fad diets, cleanses, and things that I will never understand like meal replacement shakes, VLCD, or diet pills. If the person is fully aware that cleanses don't cleanse, fad diets are mostly water weight and meal replacements are known to make your wallet thinner for no good reason...etc then poking my nose further in would be rude. Adults and their choices - none of my business.
To be honest, it's not you or any other person here who is passionate about low carb I'm trying to target with my comments. You all seem to be doing really well and feeling good on your respective diets. The people I'm trying to reach are the "previous me's". People who, like I did, are trying to force themselves into something that makes them miserable when there might be another easily tolerated way to the same results. If there isn't an easier alternative and if some kind of restricted diet really is needed, at least they'll know they're only putting themselves through something out of necessity and from the lack of a better alternative.
I think you said that very well and I fully understand what you are sharing. I agree with everything you said there. I very much feel the same way. The only exception at all I have is that sometimes things start out difficult and a person can feel miserable because making changes for health and fitness is hard no matter what the changes are you want to make. But, they should begin to become easier as time goes on and with proper commitment applied along the way.
I wouldn't say I was miserable when I got started, especially since I already did lots of research and prevented electrolyte loss and therefore "Keto flu" during my adaptation, but it was quite difficult for me to give up my candy habit. That's what I found to be my biggest problem pre-diet change. So I missed my sugar binge for a few weeks. Lol
Some people are more challenged during change than others and some are simply over dramatic as well. Lol I listen to my sister go on and on about her recent type 2 diagnosis and her health complaints and how she is in a constant battle between high and low blood sugar. Then I suggest that she change just 1 thing and cut out her soda drinking or switch to diet as 1 simple change that could have a huge impact on her blood sugar and you would think I suggested she jump off the nearest bridge! I even suggested mixing regular and diet little by little to get used to the difference in taste since that was her issue and she dismissed that as stupid. Made sense to me... Anyway, some people just don't want to change and if they are forced to or break down and decide to try, they have to be dramatic because they simply feel like it's the worst possible life experience they could be going through at that moment. These people need lots of reinforcement and support during their adaptation but many still don't succeed because the true commitment just isn't there.
I have a few MFP friends that post daily. 1 day, they are crazy proud of the way they stuck to their plan and the next they have a cheat day or meal and the next it's someone else's fault cuz they made brownies or took them to an all you can eat buffet... In the end, it's all about commitment. Support is crucial for that.
You seem like you are very supportive. I appreciate that when talking to people on here. Being open minded is very helpful too. You seem to also be that way.
I know what you mean when you see people say things like they aren't losing weight so they need to stop eating sugar, for example. It's not sugar that's the problem for keeping weight on them. But it could be that they have trouble with moderation when it comes to sugar... So it could be their problem because of that. I see some people telling them that they just need to control the amount and such, but as a former sugar binger, that never worked for me. I really did need to cut it out entirely to get myself under control. So sometimes all the people trying to talk sense into this person that has labeled sugar as their problem, they truly could be preventing that person from finally making the change they need to find success.
Sometimes I will see people say, unless your doctor told you to cut out that food or you are allergic or diabetic then you don't need to... But another thing that should be on that list is "if you find that you are unable to have that food in moderation because you have problems binging on it". This is something that "everything in moderation" dieters don't understand. Obviously, because they have found success in moderation. So very many people struggle endlessly with moderation. So that method isn't for everyone. You would think if they can't succeed with that there would be no way they would succeed with removing it entirely, but sometimes that level of commitment is exactly what they need, and in my case, as well as many others I know, the cravings and desire for the problem foods went away or were dramatically diminished. That's a great feeling when you previously felt that it was so difficult to deal with.0
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