Taboo subject
Replies
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kshama2001 wrote: »Would you please post a link to the thread here?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10239870/success-by-all-the-wrong-means/p10 -
Thanks!
@joolieb1 see Adam's post on http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10239870/success-by-all-the-wrong-means/p5 - the thread was locked for attacks and hijacking, not the subject matter.0 -
I think this is a matter of "Don't try this at home, kids". The potential deadly side-effects of VLCD's make me leery. I'd only do it under doctor's supervision and I don't mean "supervision" as being sent home with a don't list. I mean a 24-7 hot line number to your dietitian, used for a very short period of time, and not being left alone in case you fall down.
Since MFP is built on self-help, it can't be seen to promoting or even allowing hints on how a VLCD might be accomplished. There are lurkers who are actively starving themselves are looking for ways to further reduce their calories without dying.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
That made me laugh! 0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
We need to be able to block users as in most other forums.
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Liftin4food wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review. That made me laugh!
Just doin' mah job!
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KittensMaster wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
We need to be able to block users as in most other forums.
But then I won't have any friends!0 -
sheermomentum wrote: »This isn't taboo. It gets discussed all the time. ALL the time. If the thread was closed, then it was probably closed because a number of people flagged it as supporting very low calorie diets or extreme weight loss. You can talk about moderate dieting all you want. But if the people on the Facebook page want to disagree with things you say or the way you say them, then that's something you may have to just deal with, just like in real life. There is no flagging feature in Facebook and I have no idea how or whether discussions are moderated there.
nope, the discussion got closed because one poster got out of hand and started insulting a bunch of other posters. It's a little ridiculous. She should have been warned had her posts removed, and the thread put back up so that we could have continued. There's a lot of value in a thread like that. Value is lost when one person can't control him or herself and derails a thread with personal attacks.
Ah. Still, the thread wasn't closed because someone came down in favor of moderate dieting, which was how I interpreted the OP's view of it. As often as extreme dieting and quick weight loss are panned on this forum, I'm sure there have been/will be plenty of unclosed threads to follow up on.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »KittensMaster wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
We need to be able to block users as in most other forums.
But then I won't have any friends!
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Best Doc Holliday ever.0
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tincanonastring wrote: »KittensMaster wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
We need to be able to block users as in most other forums.
But then I won't have any friends!
I love this (my favorite line from the movie) but I take exception with the fact that the meme is a picture from the wrong scene. Doc shoots Johnny Ringo out in the brush. He wasn't even wearing a suit at the time! I mean, come on!0 -
No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.0
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I see on here all the time that it's unhealthy to lose more than 2 lbs a week. Is there research to back that up? Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese? Those who have had weight loss surgery lose more quickly than that, don't they? WLS does have risks but it's also got some pretty positive statistics behind it.0
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He says it more than once. He does say it to Ringo when he gets up out of the barber chair in town.tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »KittensMaster wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I don't think it's a taboo subject at all. I think the thread probably got closed because people couldn't have a civilized discussion about it. It's a shame, IMO. I know that once upon a time I wanted to lose as much weight as soon as possible and didn't really care what people said about healthy or unhealthy. I was pretty desperate. I did lose the weight. I was pretty smug about it too, actually. However, then I spent some time really reflecting and learning a lot about what healthy, sustainable weight loss is and why it is important. I do think that people sharing their experiences is important because it might just be the thing that someone needs to hear. Now when I listen and take advice....I do it from those whose experience and success I want to mirror. I discount the advice from those whom I do not.
I also think there could be a way to highlight what the ToS rules are in a way that is more user friendly to the average poster. I see people flagging post under Abuse all the time that definitely don't meet the criteria for Abuse, but the flags are just left there and there doesn't seem to be a lot of education around it. But alas....not my circus, not my monkeys.
MFP will be releasing their new member driven anti-wrongflag initiative with the next version. Members will have the exciting ability to hunt flags which do not meet the "Abuse Criteria" and flag them for moderator review. 17 WrongFlag flags and the offending flag will be hidden from sight pending moderator review.
We need to be able to block users as in most other forums.
But then I won't have any friends!
I love this (my favorite line from the movie) but I take exception with the fact that the meme is a picture from the wrong scene. Doc shoots Johnny Ringo out in the brush. He wasn't even wearing a suit at the time! I mean, come on!
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No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I see on here all the time that it's unhealthy to lose more than 2 lbs a week. Is there research to back that up? Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese? Those who have had weight loss surgery lose more quickly than that, don't they? WLS does have risks but it's also got some pretty positive statistics behind it.
In the beginning of weight loss, it's normal to lose quite a few pounds per week, because quite a bit of water weight is lost along with the fat. That slows fairly quickly after the first few weeks, and then the 2 lbs. per week is advised. Faster than that, and the body tends to break down lean muscle mass for energy along with the fat.0 -
Agreed, but the earlier one sets up the later one.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
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tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times. I like this cast so much I absolutely refuse to watch Costner's 'Wyatt Earp'.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Agreed, but the earlier one sets up the later one.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
Yep. Totally overlooked the earlier quote because I love the other one so much.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times. I like this cast so much I absolutely refuse to watch Costner's 'Wyatt Earp'.
What Costner version? I'll not take part in a conversation that broaches such heresy.0 -
Whenever it shows up in the guide, I change to watch it. Almost completely for Kilmer's Holliday.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Whenever it shows up in the guide, I change to watch it. Almost completely for Kilmer's Holliday.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times.
That cup-twirling scene deserves an Oscar, don't you think?0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Agreed, but the earlier one sets up the later one.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
Yep. Totally overlooked the earlier quote because I love the other one so much.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times. I like this cast so much I absolutely refuse to watch Costner's 'Wyatt Earp'.
What Costner version? I'll not take part in a conversation that broaches such heresy.
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It's awesome. Another of my favorites is Holliday's explanation for why Ringo is like he is.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Whenever it shows up in the guide, I change to watch it. Almost completely for Kilmer's Holliday.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times.
That cup-twirling scene deserves an Oscar, don't you think?
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sheermomentum wrote: »This isn't taboo. It gets discussed all the time. ALL the time. If the thread was closed, then it was probably closed because a number of people flagged it as supporting very low calorie diets or extreme weight loss. You can talk about moderate dieting all you want. But if the people on the Facebook page want to disagree with things you say or the way you say them, then that's something you may have to just deal with, just like in real life. There is no flagging feature in Facebook and I have no idea how or whether discussions are moderated there.
nope, the discussion got closed because one poster got out of hand and started insulting a bunch of other posters. It's a little ridiculous. She should have been warned had her posts removed, and the thread put back up so that we could have continued. There's a lot of value in a thread like that. Value is lost when one person can't control him or herself and derails a thread with personal attacks.
I did not see the end of it until it was linked here, but not that I have, this is what happened.
A shame.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I see on here all the time that it's unhealthy to lose more than 2 lbs a week. Is there research to back that up? Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese? Those who have had weight loss surgery lose more quickly than that, don't they? WLS does have risks but it's also got some pretty positive statistics behind it.
The thread which sparked this discussion was about posts in the Success Stories forum that had dangerous rates of overall loss, though. There are people who do VLCD without WLS and without doctor supervision in there saying they lost huge amounts of weight in very short time frames. The whole thread was discussing just that scenario alone and how they get blind attaboys and wtg's and desperate newbies asking them for advice on how to do the same.
It's concerning.
While it's probably okay to lose more aggressively than what a lot of people commonly recommend depending on how high your body fat % is and a whole host of other factors, it still needs to be done in a way that provides the body with proper nutrition.
We're not discussing people who do that.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I see on here all the time that it's unhealthy to lose more than 2 lbs a week. Is there research to back that up? Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese? Those who have had weight loss surgery lose more quickly than that, don't they? WLS does have risks but it's also got some pretty positive statistics behind it.
Depending on the surgery they had, as well as other factors including the level of diet restriction under which they have to function, yes. WLS can cause 5+lbs loss per week, especially in the first few months.
I read all the "2lbs or less per week" as what the average person with few or no health issues should lose under average (sensible) conditions. That's a heckuva lot of people, but that also leaves a significant number of others too.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese?
No, but I really don't think that's what's being said.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
It's awesome. Another of my favorites is Holliday's explanation for why Ringo is like he is.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Whenever it shows up in the guide, I change to watch it. Almost completely for Kilmer's Holliday.tincanonastring wrote: »No, this one is when they are in town and the other brothers (Stephen Lang plays one and Thomas Haden Church plays the other) are getting lippy in the street. Doc is getting a shave and Wyatt doesn't want a gun fight and Doc says the 'huckleberry' line to offer up a fight, and the brothers back down.
Oh, I gotcha. I like the later reference.
One of my favorite movies. I've probably seen it a hundred times.
That cup-twirling scene deserves an Oscar, don't you think?
Especially since you know he's also talking about himself.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I see on here all the time that it's unhealthy to lose more than 2 lbs a week. Is there research to back that up? Is it always unhealthy, even when someone is morbidly obese? Those who have had weight loss surgery lose more quickly than that, don't they? WLS does have risks but it's also got some pretty positive statistics behind it.
The thread which sparked this discussion was about posts in the Success Stories forum that had dangerous rates of overall loss, though. There are people who do VLCD without WLS and without doctor supervision in there saying they lost huge amounts of weight in very short time frames. The whole thread was discussing just that scenario alone and how they get blind attaboys and wtg's and desperate newbies asking them for advice on how to do the same.
It's concerning.
While it's probably okay to lose more aggressively than what a lot of people commonly recommend depending on how high your body fat % is and a whole host of other factors, it still needs to be done in a way that provides the body with proper nutrition.
We're not discussing people who do that.
Sorry, didn't see the other thread. It was just a general question and much proliferated advice. It seems to me a lot of things get repeated on MFP by those that believe it's true just because they read it multiple times on MFP. I was just curious if there is any data to back this claim up.0 -
i am a little saddened that one subject we are not allowed to discuss on a healthy lifestyle forum is something that is so vital. MFP recommends a safe weekly weight loss of 1-2 lbs per week and 1200 daily calories as the minimum safe level to consume. However, recently a discussion about people losing large amounts of weight, eating very low amounts of calories has been closed. I felt it was something that would be useful for us to talk about. Recently, I asked a question on the MFP Facebook page about the safe weekly weight loss as I was concerned that the Slimmer of the Week title had been given to people losing 11, 6 and 8 lbs in a week. I suggested that perhaps other criteria would be a better way to award this - for example, someone consistently losing 1-2 lbs a week over a long period. I was bombarded with negative comments - I was being negative, spoiling someone's week etc and chose to close the page. However, this remains a valid point, I am sure we may have people here who might choose unhealthy ways to lose weight and the 1-2 lb a week is the benchmark for us all to remain healthy. It is not being hateful or jealous to ask a question about large losses or about someone living on 800 calories, it is concerning and we have a responsibility to encourage healthy choices
Without looking at the thread, I suspect community members attacking each other is the reason it was closed, rather than the subject. We've talked about weight loss rates many times.0
This discussion has been closed.
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