Very short duration VLCDs - still a "no no"?
Replies
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I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.
Health or just fast results.
I think the reason it is not discussed or encouraged on the forums is that someone with no knowledge on hormones or muscle retention (etc) would read a post advocating a VLCD and jump on it without any research or understanding.
Myself and numerous (well respected posters?!) have used short term controlled VLCD to great effect. They have their place and if people understand what they're doing, what to look out for and how to end these diets there is no reason why they shouldn't be used. In fact I am currently running an experiment with VLC days interspersed with re-feeds with great success.
If people are interested then they should look on www.bodyrecomposition.com for the Rapid Fat Loss Diet.4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.
Health or just fast results.
I think the reason it is not discussed or encouraged on the forums is that someone with no knowledge on hormones or muscle retention (etc) would read a post advocating a VLCD and jump on it without any research or understanding.
Myself and numerous (well respected posters?!) have used short term controlled VLCD to great effect. They have their place and if people understand what they're doing, what to look out for and how to end these diets there is no reason why they shouldn't be used. In fact I am currently running an experiment with VLC days interspersed with re-feeds with great success.
If people are interested then they should look on www.bodyrecomposition.com for the Rapid Fat Loss Diet.
This. I am doing the same with great success.1 -
Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
That calorie level would have made Andre the Giant fat(ter), especially if it was a constant thing. So yeah, that's not gonna work for many people.3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
Wait! Who did you used to be?!
As for the topic, I do think there are certain circumstances when it can be appropriate but you absolutely cannot wing it and it's not for everyone. 99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
That may be true, but baby with the bathwater and all of that. We can't even pretend to know people's intentions before opening dialogue has occured.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
This is, in my opinion, the issue. Not the actual premise of the diets themself which can be done safely.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
That may be true, but baby with the bathwater and all of that. We can't even pretend to know people's intentions before opening dialogue has occured.
I do agree but I'm more talking about the posts of people who are already low weight but are calling themselves fat and want to lose 20 lbs in order to get to BMI 15 so they don't look fat anymore. It's very obvious that they aren't interested in health/nutrition1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
This is, in my opinion, the issue. Not the actual premise of the diets themself which can be done safely.
Agreed. Which is why I never suggest them. Those who could do them and follow the protocol are probably already diet and fitness savvy enough to know of their existence. And will do the appropriate research. People coming to this forum desperately posting about losing 60lbs for Christmas or for a cruise are not people I think should be attempting it. But I admit there's probably some unfair bias in that.5 -
They have their place but they are for a very small population. Definitely not for me. They took a mental toll and I rebounded hard.
If you have emotional eating issue or you aren't experienced with systematically controlling your body weight with calorie counting and reverse dieting then I wouldn't recommend it.3 -
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I should add I mean the pro ana type. I can tell who they are from their first post. I would never question someone like you doing it.0
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@singingflutelady-- And that's a psychological issue that needs to be addressed.
Yes, exactly. Those people don't need ANY diet. They need a psychologist and a priest qualified to perform an exorcism.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
@singingflutelady-- And that's a psychological issue that needs to be addressed.
Yes, exactly. Those people don't need ANY diet. They need a psychologist and a priest qualified to perform an exorcism.
Yes exactly. I do agree. I don't have issues with people doing vlcd for the right reasons but there seem to be more and more and pro ana type posters showing up here lately0 -
What does "short duration" mean in the context of this thread?0
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eugenia94102 wrote: »What does "short duration" mean in the context of this thread?
It really depends on level of "fatness" of the dieter. For some it might be 10 days, for the very obese it could be up to 12 weeks.0 -
eugenia94102 wrote: »What does "short duration" mean in the context of this thread?
Short answer: it depends on the starting bodyfat of the person taking it on. Assuming the RFL methods, this can be anywhere from as short as 11-12 days for males at or below 15%, 2-6 weeks for males between 15 and 26%, and 6-12 weeks for males over that.
For women it would be 24% and under, 25-34%, and 35+% respectively.0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.3 -
trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
Out of interest, do you use a refeed "window" or just eat throughout the day as normal? I can't eat the way I used to and have a refeed tomorrow but am a little anxious about packing it all in in 5 hours!0 -
trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult0 -
Intentional_Me wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult
I used to be anorexic binge/purge and ed binges can often be epic in the 10k minimum range so it's definitely possible1 -
Intentional_Me wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult
For sure. Especially if you have a good run up, like a few days eating closer to maintenance to get used to the extra food. That's when I can really go to town, particularly if you start in the morning and then graze all day. Or if I just eat it in apple crumble and custard (now I'm fantasizing about crumble and custard, oh man!).1 -
Intentional_Me wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult
I used to do that in a single refeed. One medium pizza and an order of breadsticks and there ya go.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Intentional_Me wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult
I used to do that in a single refeed. One medium pizza and an order of breadsticks and there ya go.
Yes to the Yes on the pizza and the breadsticks. It's my go to on re-feeds! However, I go into a carb coma.
1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Intentional_Me wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!
That wasn't the plan... the plan was to eat very little on alternate days, and then not have any restriction on the other days - just eat to satisfaction. I have an incredible appetite, so the 10K-12K was eating to fullness as best as possible within my schedule.
This was done during a plateau. A calorie deficit keeps me very hungry because I have an incredible appetite. Calorie maintenance keeps me hungry. A small surplus keeps me hungry. At that point, I had successfully lost weight for months (very slowly) with a small deficit; but that had stopped seeing results about 2 months prior. I could mentally withstand the hunger for awhile when losing, but when the results stopped, I just couldn't take it. Instead of quitting altogether (which is what I was about to do), I compromised with myself by staying hungry every 2nd day and eating as I wished on the other days. I could at least put up with that. I did that for 6 weeks. I didn't see any sustained gains (because I was in a true plateau), just larger day-to-day fluctuations (at the fastest change, I gained 9 lbs. in just a few hours). After 6 weeks, I returned to a small daily deficit. After another 2 months (so almost 6 months total plateau), I finally got the "whoosh" of several lbs. of sustained loss in just a few days. The 6 weeks of experimentation obviously decreased the eventual "whoosh," but at least it kept me from giving up altogether.
Interesting as I am doing something similar but with RFL calories on 4 days, 2 days in a slight deficit and a re-feed (which normally ends up in the region of 10k calories). Only 4 weeks in but seeing good results, significant fat loss, no negatives from leptin/glycogen being depleted because of the re-feeds and I get to eat to my hearts content on 1 day a week.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds putting away 10-15k calories easy. I have to hold back as I have no fear I could do more.
I always find it odd when people comment that there is surely no way someone actually consumed 3, 500 calories over their maintenance in 1- 2 days.
Wellllll, they probably could have. It's not that difficult
I used to do that in a single refeed. One medium pizza and an order of breadsticks and there ya go.
Yes to the Yes on the pizza and the breadsticks. It's my go to on re-feeds! However, I go into a carb coma.
That's probably for the best. You can't smell what your body is doing with that stuff. My girlfriend told me she wants to bottle it and sell it as an aerosol paint peeler.1
This discussion has been closed.
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