Very short duration VLCDs - still a "no no"?
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GaleHawkins wrote: »11 months ago I finally broke my carb addiction by going off all sugar and grain and started eating <50 grams of carbs daily for pain management. 30 days later my pain was being managed by my diet. 6 months later my 40 years of IBS was cured. Very Low Carb Very High Fat eating lifestyle is something the masses will not be interested in doing because they will not walk away from carbs for the 90 days needed to give it a test drive. For those that are willing to actually eat <50 grams of carbs some will stick with it for life and others will not I expect. For weight LCHF may be of some value to some. On average weighting about 200 pounds I am losing about 3 pounds a month when eating at 2600 calories a day and can maintain at 3000 calories daily. While I do this eating lifestyle for pain management I know some do it for blood glucose management.
Does that have anything at all to do with the subject?2 -
I think maybe he thinks VLCD means "Very Low Carb Diet" ?
It means Very Low CALORIE diet.2 -
I am currently on day 4 of a VLCD, probably my last day. It is to be done for a maximum of 7 days. I never thought I would be able to stick to it but I have not been hungry, just in the evening but that's my weak time anyway. And I still have good energy. It's good to know I can do it for a few days whenever I find myself eating too much and starting to gain to get me refocused again. And to do it without becoming hangry and tired.
It is simply boiled eggs, apples and a few almonds. Easy to prepare and eat. But only for a few days to a week, no more.
I don't believe in quick fixes and know my normal is .5/week when eating at a deficit but it is a nice boost and certainly has helped curb my appetite and cravings.0 -
I am currently on day 4 of a VLCD, probably my last day. It is to be done for a maximum of 7 days. I never thought I would be able to stick to it but I have not been hungry, just in the evening but that's my weak time anyway. And I still have good energy. It's good to know I can do it for a few days whenever I find myself eating too much and starting to gain to get me refocused again. And to do it without becoming hangry and tired.
It is simply boiled eggs, apples and a few almonds. Easy to prepare and eat. But only for a few days to a week, no more.
I don't believe in quick fixes and know my normal is .5/week when eating at a deficit but it is a nice boost and certainly has helped curb my appetite and cravings.
I'd recommend adding EFAs, best in the form of fish oil to that, and you should be fine. Though, I find it hard to believe you're getting adequate protein and still staying VLC with eggs and nuts being involved.1 -
I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.2
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Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I too question the adequacy of your protein intake and worry about the safety of the protocol you're on. There are better methods than what you're doing. They require a lot more protein. If your diet is truly low calorie, your consumption of eggs and almonds has to be quite low.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!0 -
I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.
I've personally used RFL for a period of weeks at a time, though there's an entire protocol there. It's not just "cut to X amount of calories and go at it". Believe it or not, when you can cram four months of normal cutting into a few weeks, it makes up for the suffering. I'd post my before and after pictures, but I don't want to seem like I am advocating for it and get the thread closed. Just know, that for certain segments of the population, the short term drawbacks are well worth the kickstart to long term results. It just has to be done properly, or you absolutely can hurt yourself.1 -
queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.1 -
I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.
Health or just fast results.
I think the reason it is not discussed or encouraged on the forums is that someone with no knowledge on hormones or muscle retention (etc) would read a post advocating a VLCD and jump on it without any research or understanding.
Myself and numerous (well respected posters?!) have used short term controlled VLCD to great effect. They have their place and if people understand what they're doing, what to look out for and how to end these diets there is no reason why they shouldn't be used. In fact I am currently running an experiment with VLC days interspersed with re-feeds with great success.
If people are interested then they should look on www.bodyrecomposition.com for the Rapid Fat Loss Diet.4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this for any amount of time.
Health or just fast results.
I think the reason it is not discussed or encouraged on the forums is that someone with no knowledge on hormones or muscle retention (etc) would read a post advocating a VLCD and jump on it without any research or understanding.
Myself and numerous (well respected posters?!) have used short term controlled VLCD to great effect. They have their place and if people understand what they're doing, what to look out for and how to end these diets there is no reason why they shouldn't be used. In fact I am currently running an experiment with VLC days interspersed with re-feeds with great success.
If people are interested then they should look on www.bodyrecomposition.com for the Rapid Fat Loss Diet.
This. I am doing the same with great success.1 -
Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
That calorie level would have made Andre the Giant fat(ter), especially if it was a constant thing. So yeah, that's not gonna work for many people.3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, I know this is an old thread with new discussion, but...
Has anyone seen the show Naked and Afraid? My understanding is that they have medical personnel on hand to monitor and respond to issues. Not the same as eating very little yourself without such help.
But I've done versions of IF with days where MFP would complain I'm eating too little, but alternating days would be plenty high calories. In fact, last time I did that, I was eating in a huge surplus overall because the eating days were without calorie restriction. So if I eat 500 calories on a fasting day and 10K-12K calories on the next day, that just doesn't work for me.
Why would you think that eating 10-12k is a good plan for any situation?!5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
Wait! Who did you used to be?!
As for the topic, I do think there are certain circumstances when it can be appropriate but you absolutely cannot wing it and it's not for everyone. 99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
That may be true, but baby with the bathwater and all of that. We can't even pretend to know people's intentions before opening dialogue has occured.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »
99.9% of the time I'm going to advocate for the slow and steady way of doing things.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ha! I looked up and saw myself in this thread from long ago. Funny.
I've since learned about another form of a short term VLCD that does guard against muscle loss and is safe in some circumstances. It's not for the faint of heart.
Kenda, I'll second Gallowmere's recommendation for the EFA's. I couldn't tolerate fish oil (it gave me horrible diarrhea), but agree it's a superior source.
I saw that too!! You are doing fantastic!!
Funny, that's the me I still see in the mirror. At least I no longer see the original me.
Thanks, love.
As would I, and I am sure most of the people who have used it. Even Lyle said he wishes more people would control their diets so a crasher was never even remotely needed. He then follows that up with "I also wants a unicorn, to be an astronaut, and to be six feet tall. When ideology and reality meet, the results are never pretty."
It's the demonizing of the entire idea that tends to rustle my jimmies. All of the "no never, don't do that" people help foster and environment where, instead of someone maybe learning a safe way to do something they clearly plan on doing anyway, they are run off into a dark corner with their apples, celery, catabolism, and eventual severe health problems.
But most people on this site who plan on doing vlcd aren't interested in learning a safe way of doing it. They aren't interested in nutrition or health or doing it for a short time.
This is, in my opinion, the issue. Not the actual premise of the diets themself which can be done safely.2
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