Clean Eating v Organic

senecarr

lemurcat12 wrote: »

And if you want to cite random examples from recent threads, there's an example of the third type I mentioned in the Fruit and Veggie Carbs thread right now. OP asked about carbs from various sources, especially fruits and veg, and whether he or she had to worry about them. OP did not say he or she was doing low carb.

Poster pops in and says: "Yep, I agree, in fact most [vegans are fat]! Fruits contain a ton of sugar. If you are trying to lose fat, it's best to avoid them entirely!"

Incorrect factual assertion; should be countered.

cmtigger

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.

That's a big difference from them telling others not to eat them.

I will say that here the only time I've seen someone say don't has to do with extreme diets or MLM. But a lot of us have baggage from other people. I live in an area with a lot of food "woo" like Weston A Price, and because of it orthorexia. And judgement of how you eat. I also have a family member who will give you long lectures on what you should never eat because it's ruining the health of the U.S. Currently it is Pizza and French fries, but sometimes it is avocados.

So if people react it may be because of what they are getting from people in the real world, not just online.

tennisdude2004

lemurcat12 wrote: »

And if you want to cite random examples from recent threads, there's an example of the third type I mentioned in the Fruit and Veggie Carbs thread right now. OP asked about carbs from various sources, especially fruits and veg, and whether he or she had to worry about them. OP did not say he or she was doing low carb.

Poster pops in and says: "Yep, I agree, in fact most [vegans are fat]! Fruits contain a ton of sugar. If you are trying to lose fat, it's best to avoid them entirely!"

Incorrect factual assertion; should be countered.

Not too sure that wasn't a tongue in cheek response to earlier posts.

Besides he was only taking about cutting out fruit (in a random one off comment).

In fact in that entire thread the only person who mentioned the term low carb - was you and Sabine!!!

tennisdude2004

lemurcat12 wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

senecarr wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

ceoverturf wrote: »

No one cares what any one of us chooses to eat or not to eat personally. Frankly, none of us are that interesting to the group as a whole.

People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.

Why this seems to constantly be a mystery to other long-time posters of this board baffles me.

Yep I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs, especially when the OP has expressed an interest in eating a way that is not 'portion restricted'!

Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?

Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs. (In that I've limited carbs from time to time -- and still will turn them down to meet my protein or fat goals or my calorie goal -- and don't eat certain foods (although I generally don't want them either), that would be awfully hypocritical, and hypocrisy is one of the things I'm arguing against here. Specifically, the hypocrisy of someone who eats processed foods preaching to others about how all processed foods are bad.)

Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.

We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.

Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.

And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10235669/clean-eating

- asking if anyone would like to join her (not saying they have to or even need to)

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10246844/transition-to-clean-eating-with-a-family-involved

- again not telling anyone to clean eat. She is asking for clean eating advice

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10191201/clean-eating

- just asking for advice.

I did a quick search on Clean Eating for the forum and these are three examples from the last couple of months. Couldn't find any that told anyone else they should be clean eating.

Maybe you can share the links if you can find them.

And luckily no one in any of those threads said that they MUSTN'T eat clean or that they MUST use a moderation/IIFYM technique. The closest that I was was one poster who advised that they ditch the clean eating label, but still follow the general overall concept by eating mostly whole, nutrient-dense foods.

Thus, reinforcing my perception of the rarity of such comments

Except for the third response down in the last link:

OP - I am going to give you the following advice.

1. ditch the clean eating it is necessary for nothing and impossible to define.
2. enter your stats into MFP and set it for one pound per week loss.
3. get a food scale and weigh all solids
4. make sure you are using accurate MFP database entries
5. log everything that you eat
6. realize that no foods are bad/clean/good/whatever; you can eat the foods you like on a daily basis like cookies, ice cream, processed foods, etc; however, make sure that the majority of your foods are nutrient dense
7. make sure you hit micros/macors
8. find a form of exercise you like and do it < not necessary but is good for overall health.

Correct, I acknowledged that post advised to ditch the label, but follow the basic premise of eating primarily nutrient dense foods.

Still, you posted three entire threads to support your premise, yet only one post in all three threads even remotely comes close to that which you said happens frequently...again reinforcing my perception that it's quite rare.

You clearly misunderstand my examples!

They are three examples of clean posts where the op is NOT: telling people they MUST eat clean!

The fact that one of the post supports my other claim that a lot of these post are hijacked by people saying NOT to eat clean and follow moderation is just a coincidence!

So you really need some links to times people have told someone must eat in some form of clean to lose weight?
I'll go get them:

Ooops.

Ha ha. I have seen some posts like that, but it's changing the subject a little (and certainly we don't want to do that in this thread )

But the assertion was made that no one has a problem with terms like "clean eating" or "processed foods" UNLESS the the poster is saying you MUST do it.

But if you mean my assertion, you are misstating it, despite my repeating it immediately above.

I don't care unless they tell others that they shouldn't eat "processed foods" or that doing so is not healthy. When they make the latter claim it's a factual assertion that I think should be countered.

Also, tennisdude's links supported my position, as people didn't seem to have a problem with them.

No I was not supporting your position - the absolute opposite.

You claimed that almost all had the OP's saying that WE must all follow their rules.

That's simply not the case. Some of the threads do, but in relation to the amount of threads there are the number is small.

I searched for three recent Clean Eating threads and non of them supported your claim.

You are (for some reason, hmm) ignoring the context and thus misrepresenting what was said:

ceoverturf said:

People DO tend to care when people preach what other people MUST eat or (more commonly) MUST NOT eat.

You said:

I find it annoying when people preach that others MUST eat in moderation and MUST NOT limit carbs...

Then I said:

Has anyone here (as in involved with this thread) done that?

Personally, I have NEVER said that anyone else must eat in moderation or must not limit carbs....

You said:

Actually most of the threads I've read are where the OP explains how bad they believe processed food to be and that is why 'THEY' are limiting or avoiding them.

Note: in context you appear to be talking about threads which attracted negative or argumentative comments, in which arguments broke out.

Recall, my previously expressed opinion in this thread was that statements are worth disagreeing with when:

(1) they tell others that they shouldn't eat "processed foods;" or (2) they tell others that that doing so is not healthy. When they make the latter claim it's a factual assertion that I think should be countered.

So I went on:

We must be reading different threads, as almost all either have an OP giving general rules that say WE ALL should limit processed foods or complaining that others here aren't as focused on nutrition since they eat BAD foods.

Sometimes OP seems worried about how to cut out foods and there I think it's worth seeing if she really wants to or has just read that one must to lose weight. Quite often these OP's are happy to learn they don't have to, and others have been successful without.

And more often than not the OP asks an innocuous question and gets helpful responses and then someone swoops in and tells her that she MUST cut out sugar or fruit or carbs or processed foods. Those are the ones that I seem to end up in most often lately.

Again, in context I'm talking about the threads in which arguments broke out. And even so I acknowledge that MORE OFTEN THAN NOT the OP asks an innocuous question.

In response you cite 3 threads in which the OP asked an innocuous question and NO fight or unpleasantness broke out. This gives no evidence whatsoever as to what percentage of threads that blow up involve one of the situations I mentioned vs. the situation you mentioned.

And of course we can't possibly run the stats here, since the search feature is mediocre and the threads which blow up mostly get deleted.

As, of course, you know.

NO ONE in this thread has said that everyone who ever uses the term "clean eating" or expresses a view that they want to avoid "processed food" is preaching at others. The point is that the preaching posts, as well as others that state inaccurate factual claims, are the ones that many of us think we should counter.

Yes there has been a few deleted posts recently - as a lot of us on this thread know.

lemurcat12

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

And if you want to cite random examples from recent threads, there's an example of the third type I mentioned in the Fruit and Veggie Carbs thread right now. OP asked about carbs from various sources, especially fruits and veg, and whether he or she had to worry about them. OP did not say he or she was doing low carb.

Poster pops in and says: "Yep, I agree, in fact most [vegans are fat]! Fruits contain a ton of sugar. If you are trying to lose fat, it's best to avoid them entirely!"

Incorrect factual assertion; should be countered.

Not too sure that wasn't a tongue in cheek response to earlier posts.

Besides he was only taking about cutting out fruit (in a random one off comment).

In fact in that entire thread the only person who mentioned the term low carb - was you and Sabine!!!

No way was that poster tongue in cheek.

Don't know why you bring up low carb, that wasn't my point, but I thought I was all open and accepting of low carb in my comments, acknowledging that watching carbs even from fruits and veg would be necessary if doing a low carb plan, but that net carbs might be what mattered, depending on the plan.

tennisdude2004

lemurcat12 wrote: »

tennisdude2004 wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

And if you want to cite random examples from recent threads, there's an example of the third type I mentioned in the Fruit and Veggie Carbs thread right now. OP asked about carbs from various sources, especially fruits and veg, and whether he or she had to worry about them. OP did not say he or she was doing low carb.

Poster pops in and says: "Yep, I agree, in fact most [vegans are fat]! Fruits contain a ton of sugar. If you are trying to lose fat, it's best to avoid them entirely!"

Incorrect factual assertion; should be countered.

Not too sure that wasn't a tongue in cheek response to earlier posts.

Besides he was only taking about cutting out fruit (in a random one off comment).

In fact in that entire thread the only person who mentioned the term low carb - was you and Sabine!!!

I thought I was all open and accepting to low carb.

You were as was sabine - I'm just saying you two were the only ones to utter the words low carb in the thread. the example of the post you gave the guy didn't mention low carb.

I think he was being flippant, but even if he was being serious his issue seemed to be with sugar.

lemurcat12

But why would it mention low carb? I was talking about making factually incorrect prescriptive statements about what not to eat, not it coming from a particular dietary preference.

tennisdude2004

lemurcat12 wrote: »

But why would it mention low carb? I was talking about making factually incorrect prescriptive statements about what not to eat, not it coming from a particular dietary preference.

Why would what mention low carb??

jmurguia78

I had no idea this Subject was a hot button for some folks. Thank you everyone for your input

senecarr

jmurguia78 wrote: »

I had no idea this Subject was a hot button for some folks. Thank you everyone for your input

Best OP returning to thread comment.

jmurguia78

Lol probably but I don't want to start another "debate"