To much protein bad for you?
Replies
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs rather than what you want it for. As far as being dangerous it's unlikely to be at a dangerous level unless you have medical issues, but unless you really like the high protein foods then you might want to replace some of them with lower protein alternatives to have a greater variety in your diet.
This.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
Yep and this too.0 -
The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.0
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nakedraygun wrote: »The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.
Others around you might have an issue even if you don't.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »nakedraygun wrote: »The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.
Others around you might have an issue even if you don't.
True, but then that's motivation to lift heavier.. for protection.
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I was talking to someone about my diet. Told them I am trying to have 190 grams of protein a day. They said that was to much for me at 128 pounds. I am trying to gain about 40 pounds. Is there such thing where to much protein is bad for you?
My understanding of it was that your body can only except a certain amount then rejects rest.
Everything is relative, depending on how you exercise and train
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nakedraygun wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs rather than what you want it for. As far as being dangerous it's unlikely to be at a dangerous level unless you have medical issues, but unless you really like the high protein foods then you might want to replace some of them with lower protein alternatives to have a greater variety in your diet.
This.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs0 -
Wheelhouse answered it. Gluconeogenesis.Commander_Keen wrote: »nakedraygun wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs rather than what you want it for. As far as being dangerous it's unlikely to be at a dangerous level unless you have medical issues, but unless you really like the high protein foods then you might want to replace some of them with lower protein alternatives to have a greater variety in your diet.
This.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs
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nakedraygun wrote: »The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.
God help us if he squats0 -
Yeah, unfortunately, protein farts are one of the odd items that have escaped the ObamaCare pre-existing condition rules, so you're on your own if you get them.nakedraygun wrote: »The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.0 -
Not sure if you missed the link earlier in the thread.Commander_Keen wrote: »nakedraygun wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs rather than what you want it for. As far as being dangerous it's unlikely to be at a dangerous level unless you have medical issues, but unless you really like the high protein foods then you might want to replace some of them with lower protein alternatives to have a greater variety in your diet.
This.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs
To be technical, there is no exact way. Protein must first be converted to amino acids, and from there, the process of turning a given amino acid into glucose is amino acid specific.0 -
Nothing to see here
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Yeah, unfortunately, protein farts are one of the odd items that have escaped the ObamaCare pre-existing condition rules, so you're on your own if you get them.nakedraygun wrote: »The only danger the OP is in -- unless there is no medical reason forbidding him -- are protein farts.
All I can say, its lucky for the world I train at 430am weekdays, otherwise, zombies.0 -
If you're at risk for high blood pressure and/or type 2 diabetes or if you already suffer from one or the other, it's probably not a good idea to consume that much protein. High blood pressure and diabetes are the leading cause of kidney disease, so adding a large amount of protein to an already at risk organ would be pretty dangerous.
I'm a living kidney donor, 156 lbs and, depending upon whether I workout or not, try to keep my protein between 124g and 145g daily. Given my status, there are some who would consider that quite high. However, my annual labs are perfect and my blood pressure is more than acceptable. I am not in renal failure and am not at risk of renal failure according to my tests; so there is no medical concern for the amount of protein I am currently consuming. If any of the results were to change, I would immediately reduce my protein intake to avoid further taxing my kidney.
If you're otherwise healthy, I don't think that much protein is going to hurt you. I do think it's a lot of protein to consume, though. But that's just my opinion.0 -
I was talking to someone about my diet. Told them I am trying to have 190 grams of protein a day. They said that was to much for me at 128 pounds. I am trying to gain about 40 pounds. Is there such thing where to much protein is bad for you?
My understanding of it was that your body can only except a certain amount then rejects rest.
Barring preexisting medical conditions, protein, even "too much" protein is not bad for you. But your body can only use so much. The rest is more or less wasted.
Studies have shown that protein synthesis maxes out around 0.8 grams of protein per pound of total bodyweight. Other recent studies have increased the maximum to 1 gram of protein to 1 pound of bodyweight.
I've been following the advice of Mike Matthews after reading his book "Bigger Leaner Stronger." He suggests 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, so I usually try to stay in that range.
40 pounds is a lot to gain. It's not going to happen quickly if you want added mass in the form of muscle. If you do everything right (training, diet and rest) you can expect to gain around 10 to 15 pounds of muscle your first year of lifting, about half that your second year and about half that amount your third and subsequent years. Stick with it and you'll get there eventually.0 -
There is no research that shows you will damage yourself from eating more than the body can use. Unless you are in a calorie deficit there is significant research that your body will only maximize about .8 grams per pound towards building. The rest is waste. If you are in a 20-25% deficit in calories you body can utilize between 1.2 and 1.5 grams per pound in maintaining muscle.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
This only happens if the body is in ketosis from not eating any carbohydrates and has to have glucose to feed the body. It consumes a huge amount of energy and is a last resort the body uses to generate the glucose needed. It would be an extreme circumstance and not something and just happens from eating more protein than the body will use.0 -
I was talking to someone about my diet. Told them I am trying to have 190 grams of protein a day. They said that was to much for me at 128 pounds. I am trying to gain about 40 pounds. Is there such thing where to much protein is bad for you?
My understanding of it was that your body can only except a certain amount then rejects rest.
So how much protein do athletes need? To figure out your needs, simply multiply your weight in pounds by one of the following:
•Sedentary adult 0.4
•Active adult 0.4-0.6
•Growing athlete 0.6-0.9
•Adult building muscle mass 0.6-0.9
taken from Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook
Rice University
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/caryn/protein.html
----
"A simple way of finding out how much protein you need is to multiply body weight in pounds by 0.4. That equals grams of protein you need per day.
"The Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) tell us the amount of protein an average person needs each day. Calculate the protein needs based on the formula of 0.8 grams of protein for each kilogram of body weight. To find weight in kilograms, divide weight in pounds by 2.2.
Example:
Person’s weight = 165 pounds
165 pounds/2.2 pounds
per kilogram
75 kilograms X 0.8 grams
per kilogram
This person has a protein requirement of 60 grams per day.
Another simple, shorthand approach is to multiply body weight in pounds by 0.4. This is a rough estimate involving fewer calculations.
Example:
165 pounds X 0.4 = 66 grams per day.
It is important to keep in mind that extra protein does not give special benefits. People do not store extra dietary protein as body muscle. Extra protein beyond the daily requirement will not make extra muscle or grow hair faster or protect against diseases. Protein beyond what is needed is either broken down and used for energy, or it is turned into fat and stored in fat cells."
Source:
Oklahoma State University
Protein and the Body
Janice R. Hermann, Ph.D., RD/LD
Nutrition Specialist
Page 2
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2473/T-3163web.pdf
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I was talking to someone about my diet. Told them I am trying to have 190 grams of protein a day. They said that was to much for me at 128 pounds. I am trying to gain about 40 pounds. Is there such thing where to much protein is bad for you?
My understanding of it was that your body can only except a certain amount then rejects rest.
Barring preexisting medical conditions, protein, even "too much" protein is not bad for you. But your body can only use so much. The rest is more or less wasted.
Studies have shown that protein synthesis maxes out around 0.8 grams of protein per pound of total bodyweight. Other recent studies have increased the maximum to 1 gram of protein to 1 pound of bodyweight.
I've been following the advice of Mike Matthews after reading his book "Bigger Leaner Stronger." He suggests 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight, so I usually try to stay in that range.
40 pounds is a lot to gain. It's not going to happen quickly if you want added mass in the form of muscle. If you do everything right (training, diet and rest) you can expect to gain around 10 to 15 pounds of muscle your first year of lifting, about half that your second year and about half that amount your third and subsequent years. Stick with it and you'll get there eventually.
Great program!! I have been on it for 4+ months and have seen amazing results.0 -
CasperNaegle wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
This only happens if the body is in ketosis from not eating any carbohydrates and has to have glucose to feed the body. It consumes a huge amount of energy and is a last resort the body uses to generate the glucose needed. It would be an extreme circumstance and not something and just happens from eating more protein than the body will use.
If I understand it correctly, GNG is always the preferred metabolic protein path during caloric deficit. Excess protein can't be stored so it is broken down as: Protein -> peptides -> amino acids -> pyruvic acid. During caloric deficit, pyruvic acid is metabolised to glucose via GNG. During caloric excess, pyruvic acid is converted to fatty acids through acetyl-CoA where it enters the Kreb's cycle and eventually gets distributed as adipose tissue. Nothing is wasted, it just changes forms so that the body can use it. I may be a little off on this though, so anybody smarter than me please feel free to correct me.
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Patttience wrote: »Absolutely too much. You could end up damaging your kidneys.
Absolutely BS. If you have bad kidneys, too much protein can be a problem. There is no science behind the idea that too much protein creates kidney problems.
Don't just google for info, as Patttience suggests. Learn to weed out good information from crap. In the world of higher education, this is known as "information literacy," something Patttience does not possess.
Here's some actual science.
One thing to note: There's really no point in taking as much protein as you are. It's not going to hurt you, but it's not going to help either. Unless you like eating that much as part of reaching your caloric goal, you're probably spending way more money than you need to for the same outcome.it is too much in the sense that it is providing no additional benefit to OP and OP would be better backing it off and filling in the rest with carbs, which tend to be more important when bulking due to the insulin spike that eating carbs create….
The broscience is strong with this one. Pro bodybuilders can make great use of an insulin spike. Random Internet Guy who doesn't even know how much protein to eat has no need for it. At all.
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CasperNaegle wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
This only happens if the body is in ketosis from not eating any carbohydrates and has to have glucose to feed the body. It consumes a huge amount of energy and is a last resort the body uses to generate the glucose needed. It would be an extreme circumstance and not something and just happens from eating more protein than the body will use.
No, it's a steady process that happens regularly.0 -
Pro bodybuilders get their insulin spike via injected insulin, no need for diet to do it.xmichaelyx wrote: »Patttience wrote: »Absolutely too much. You could end up damaging your kidneys.
Absolutely BS. If you have bad kidneys, too much protein can be a problem. There is no science behind the idea that too much protein creates kidney problems.
Don't just google for info, as Patttience suggests. Learn to weed out good information from crap. In the world of higher education, this is known as "information literacy," something Patttience does not possess.
Here's some actual science.
One thing to note: There's really no point in taking as much protein as you are. It's not going to hurt you, but it's not going to help either. Unless you like eating that much as part of reaching your caloric goal, you're probably spending way more money than you need to for the same outcome.it is too much in the sense that it is providing no additional benefit to OP and OP would be better backing it off and filling in the rest with carbs, which tend to be more important when bulking due to the insulin spike that eating carbs create….
The broscience is strong with this one. Pro bodybuilders can make great use of an insulin spike. Random Internet Guy who doesn't even know how much protein to eat has no need for it. At all.
Insulin sensitivity does help with muscle building and put calorie partitioning towards muscle over fat in comparison to a less insulin sensitive state.0 -
Richin, sounds right to me.0
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xmichaelyx wrote: »Patttience wrote: »Absolutely too much. You could end up damaging your kidneys.
Absolutely BS. If you have bad kidneys, too much protein can be a problem. There is no science behind the idea that too much protein creates kidney problems.
Don't just google for info, as Patttience suggests. Learn to weed out good information from crap. In the world of higher education, this is known as "information literacy," something Patttience does not possess.
Here's some actual science.
One thing to note: There's really no point in taking as much protein as you are. It's not going to hurt you, but it's not going to help either. Unless you like eating that much as part of reaching your caloric goal, you're probably spending way more money than you need to for the same outcome.it is too much in the sense that it is providing no additional benefit to OP and OP would be better backing it off and filling in the rest with carbs, which tend to be more important when bulking due to the insulin spike that eating carbs create….
The broscience is strong with this one. Pro bodybuilders can make great use of an insulin spike. Random Internet Guy who doesn't even know how much protein to eat has no need for it. At all.
Please explain the additional benefit that one would get from consuming additional protein over .6 to .85 grams of protein per pound of body weight.
you are saying that insulin spikes are important but then say that one should not fill in with carbs, really?0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CasperNaegle wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
This only happens if the body is in ketosis from not eating any carbohydrates and has to have glucose to feed the body. It consumes a huge amount of energy and is a last resort the body uses to generate the glucose needed. It would be an extreme circumstance and not something and just happens from eating more protein than the body will use.
No, it's a steady process that happens regularly.
I'm not going to say the chemistry doesn't happen, but for nutritional effort and what this site if for it's not any concern for people. You don't have to think about your protein becoming carbs... I should have included some references for my post. You will see that this is nothing for anyone to have any concern about in planning their macros from a daily standpoint. The body won't do this in any quantity unless it is in dire need as it has a much more efficient way to generate and use the glucose it needs.
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/33/30413
from the article "glycerol and FFA released from white adipose tissue (WAT) during starvation have noted considerable re-esterification of the FFA in adipose tissue during periods of active lipolysis."
"Quantitative estimates of the triglyceride/fatty acid cycle in human adults and newborn infants and studies in animals show that only a small fraction of the FFA released as a result of lipolysis in the WAT are oxidized, and the majority are re-esterified to triglycerides in various tissues (2–9)."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049505002994
"We have previously shown in in vivo experiments that adipose tissue glyceroneogenesis is increased in rats adapted to a high-protein, carbohydrate-free (HP) diet"0 -
CasperNaegle wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »CasperNaegle wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Commander_Keen wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Too much for your actually protein needs so most will get converted to carbs t.
How exactly does protein get converted to carbs?
The short answer is gluconeogensis the long answer is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis for a starter. If you don't want to read through all fo the biochem/microbio stuff then the basic idea is that protein chains are mostly carbon and hydrogen with an amino acid group attached. When the amino acid group is removed the carbon and hydrogen can be reassmebled into carbohydrate chains.
This only happens if the body is in ketosis from not eating any carbohydrates and has to have glucose to feed the body. It consumes a huge amount of energy and is a last resort the body uses to generate the glucose needed. It would be an extreme circumstance and not something and just happens from eating more protein than the body will use.
No, it's a steady process that happens regularly.
I'm not going to say the chemistry doesn't happen, but for nutritional effort and what this site if for it's not any concern for people. You don't have to think about your protein becoming carbs... I should have included some references for my post. You will see that this is nothing for anyone to have any concern about in planning their macros from a daily standpoint. The body won't do this in any quantity unless it is in dire need as it has a much more efficient way to generate and use the glucose it needs.
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/33/30413
from the article "glycerol and FFA released from white adipose tissue (WAT) during starvation have noted considerable re-esterification of the FFA in adipose tissue during periods of active lipolysis."
"Quantitative estimates of the triglyceride/fatty acid cycle in human adults and newborn infants and studies in animals show that only a small fraction of the FFA released as a result of lipolysis in the WAT are oxidized, and the majority are re-esterified to triglycerides in various tissues (2–9)."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049505002994
"We have previously shown in in vivo experiments that adipose tissue glyceroneogenesis is increased in rats adapted to a high-protein, carbohydrate-free (HP) diet"
I don't see much reason to worry about excess protein converting to carbs unless you are trying to remain in ketosis, but those on keto diets tend to have only moderate protein intake, as far as I'm aware, in order to limit GNG. Please note, those links aren't refering to GNG but rather glyceroneogenesis, which is a completely different process. I think you are mixing the two up.0 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »Patttience wrote: »Absolutely too much. You could end up damaging your kidneys.
Absolutely BS. If you have bad kidneys, too much protein can be a problem. There is no science behind the idea that too much protein creates kidney problems.
Don't just google for info, as Patttience suggests. Learn to weed out good information from crap. In the world of higher education, this is known as "information literacy," something Patttience does not possess.
Here's some actual science.
One thing to note: There's really no point in taking as much protein as you are. It's not going to hurt you, but it's not going to help either. Unless you like eating that much as part of reaching your caloric goal, you're probably spending way more money than you need to for the same outcome.it is too much in the sense that it is providing no additional benefit to OP and OP would be better backing it off and filling in the rest with carbs, which tend to be more important when bulking due to the insulin spike that eating carbs create….
The broscience is strong with this one. Pro bodybuilders can make great use of an insulin spike. Random Internet Guy who doesn't even know how much protein to eat has no need for it. At all.
Please explain the additional benefit that one would get from consuming additional protein over .6 to .85 grams of protein per pound of body weight.
you are saying that insulin spikes are important but then say that one should not fill in with carbs, really?
The only way to increase protien syntheis with an insulin spike is to have super physiological levels of insulin. A dietary induced spike doesn't really do much. Dr. Norton discusses this on one of his videos.0 -
The level of complication is too damn high!
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The level of complication is too damn high!
It's not too complicated, but many of us here try to provide evidence based advice rather than the traditional bro science you get so many other places. It's as simple as eat around 1g/lb of body weight and don't sweat it too much if you are a bit over or under.0
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