The worst addiction in the world is FOOD
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I think OP was just trying to put into words her thoughts about the pressure she feels. It is all fine and dandy to discuss how food isn't an addiction. To her it 'feels' like what she thinks an addiction is. I don't believe she was denigrating the trials of drug/booze addictions and such. She was just extemporizing on her personal observations of her life situation where she feels powerless to say no to food. Simply that.0
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@Lynzdee18 yes, exactly. It was a mental dump, how I FEEL. I know that things could be worse and I could be dependent on something else like booze or drugs. Alcoholism IS in my family, and so are eating disorders. It is what it is....could be worse for sure0
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Char231023 - right. I agree. I've said that many times before, trying to motivate myself. Did you use cookies as an example because of the cookie monster gif? LOL it makes me laugh every time i see it.
No, actually the cookie monster was posted while I was writing my two cents. Just a funny coincidence.
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Maybe so. It seems to me that thinking of it in terms of the properties of the food rather than in terms of her decisions undermines gaining that power.I think OP was just trying to put into words her thoughts about the pressure she feels. It is all fine and dandy to discuss how food isn't an addiction. To her it 'feels' like what she thinks an addiction is. I don't believe she was denigrating the trials of drug/booze addictions and such. She was just extemporizing on her personal observations of her life situation where she feels powerless to say no to food. Simply that.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »LyndaSheppardHowitt wrote: »People can live without Meth, dope, and booze. Granted, ask anyone addicted to these substances to live without it, they may feel like they will die. They will live without it.
Food on the other hand, well we can't live without that. So of all of the things I could be addicted to, it is food. Of course, why not?
Obviously, none of us can live without food, which is why it seems wrong to call it an addiction. In a way, what an addiction is would be the way a substance you do not need can take advantage of your body's ways of encouraging us to do what we need to live (and reproduce) to focus on on other, unhealthy behaviors instead.
It's 100% normal to find food pleasurable and to desire it.Why is there such comfort and joy brought on when eating something sweet or loaded with gravy? The true irony is, though during the initial consumption of unhealthy foods make me feel happy, merely seconds later I am laden with guilt.
I think it's this cycle of guilt/shame from eating foods you have told yourself are "bad" that tend to lead to more addictive-type reactions more often than not. For example, someone feels bad so figure why bother and eats more to self-comfort or decides "well, I blew it, might as well go crazy," or has told herself so long that if she eats one M&M she'll finish a giant bag of them that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Therapy is the way to go for many with food issues, definitely. For me, what has helped is to try and take a really logical, pragmatic approach to food -- to focus on why I like it (how it's made and all that, to be interested in cooking and recreating tastes), how it meets my nutritional goals, the calories, and not to imbue it with any powder beyond that.
And as for eating behaviors that are habitual I've tried to be aware of that, and to avoid bad habits and to act in ways that make it easier on myself. If I have a habit of eating in the middle of the day at work when stressed, I know I can't start snacking then -- I have much more control simply not snacking and eating at meals, and not letting myself eat as a reaction to stress.Why can't I take pleasure in something physical, feel those same endorphins race through me after a nice walk around the block?
You probably can -- it just takes time to build new habits and sometimes to get pleasure from new things. I did find (after a while) that I could use exercise as a stress release much like I used to use food (and still want to at times).
Ah, btw, since you like David Katz:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/food-addiction_b_1085184.html
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Maybe so. It seems to me that thinking of it in terms of the properties of the food rather than in terms of her decisions undermine gaining that power.I think OP was just trying to put into words her thoughts about the pressure she feels. It is all fine and dandy to discuss how food isn't an addiction. To her it 'feels' like what she thinks an addiction is. I don't believe she was denigrating the trials of drug/booze addictions and such. She was just extemporizing on her personal observations of her life situation where she feels powerless to say no to food. Simply that.
I think this is correct.
What I'd ask OP, based on the "worst addiction" premise is whether she finds that eating ANY foods act as a trigger. That's the premise behind the idea that an addict must give up the substance entirely (and often it's claimed that a drug/alcohol addict cannot use any drug thereafter).
If it's a matter of particular foods being the trigger -- and apart from whether or not it's a "real" addiction -- can't you just avoid the trigger foods, at least until working through the issues?
I've just never understood this idea that it's "the worst" addiction.
I'd also point out that one of the reasons addictions are so horrible is that people basically throw their lives away because they care about the substance to which they are addicted over everything else -- loved ones, their own lives, jobs, etc. It becomes the central thing in their life (and that's why dealing with addicted loved ones can be so terrible, as they are selfishly fixated on the substance).
I think there are rare cases of people (some who become extremely obese) who reach this level of obsession with eating behaviors, but I really don't think that's what's going on with most of us who have used food for self comfort. There's no question that eating another cookie is something you'd never sacrifice a job or loved one for. Yes, people do eat despite gaining weight being unhealthy, but there I think it's much more about not seeing the direct effect of one more cookie on the weight or thinking "well, I can deal tomorrow." It's more of a short term vs. long term consequences balancing issue -- many humans are bad at that.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Maybe so. It seems to me that thinking of it in terms of the properties of the food rather than in terms of her decisions undermine gaining that power.
Yes. I have problems with this current tendency in pop culture to broaden the definition of addiction. It smacks of evasion. "Poor me. It's not my fault I ate the whole bag of cookies. It's the cookie's fault." No, you picked the cookies up off the shelf, you put them in the buggy, on the belt, in the bag, into the car, into the cupboard, then on to the sofa. They didn't open themselves and fly into your mouth.
Owning that and taking responsibility is the first step to stopping. The first step to not drinking all the gravy is not making it. If this is too difficult a step, seek professional assistance, because you won't find help on the internet.
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »LyndaSheppardHowitt wrote: »People can live without Meth, dope, and booze. Granted, ask anyone addicted to these substances to live without it, they may feel like they will die. They will live without it.
Food on the other hand, well we can't live without that. So of all of the things I could be addicted to, it is food. Of course, why not?
Obviously, none of us can live without food, which is why it seems wrong to call it an addiction. In a way, what an addiction is would be the way a substance you do not need can take advantage of your body's ways of encouraging us to do what we need to live (and reproduce) to focus on on other, unhealthy behaviors instead.
It's 100% normal to find food pleasurable and to desire it.Why is there such comfort and joy brought on when eating something sweet or loaded with gravy? The true irony is, though during the initial consumption of unhealthy foods make me feel happy, merely seconds later I am laden with guilt.
I think it's this cycle of guilt/shame from eating foods you have told yourself are "bad" that tend to lead to more addictive-type reactions more often than not. For example, someone feels bad so figure why bother and eats more to self-comfort or decides "well, I blew it, might as well go crazy," or has told herself so long that if she eats one M&M she'll finish a giant bag of them that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Therapy is the way to go for many with food issues, definitely. For me, what has helped is to try and take a really logical, pragmatic approach to food -- to focus on why I like it (how it's made and all that, to be interested in cooking and recreating tastes), how it meets my nutritional goals, the calories, and not to imbue it with any powder beyond that.
And as for eating behaviors that are habitual I've tried to be aware of that, and to avoid bad habits and to act in ways that make it easier on myself. If I have a habit of eating in the middle of the day at work when stressed, I know I can't start snacking then -- I have much more control simply not snacking and eating at meals, and not letting myself eat as a reaction to stress.Why can't I take pleasure in something physical, feel those same endorphins race through me after a nice walk around the block?
You probably can -- it just takes time to build new habits and sometimes to get pleasure from new things. I did find (after a while) that I could use exercise as a stress release much like I used to use food (and still want to at times).
Ah, btw, since you like David Katz:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-katz-md/food-addiction_b_1085184.html
Yes, I've read that (I may even have linked it before), and I think it's not that dissimilar from what I said.
If the point is just that we need it to live, of course it's addictive in a way, but that means nothing.
What's screwed up and problematic about the things we usually talk about as addictions is that they encourage us to replace the things we need and that our body's reaction is supposed to encourage (eating food, relationships with other humans) with something else, using the same pathways -- blowing off food for drugs, for example.Whether or not food is addictive is a lesser question, subordinate to a more important one: why does addiction exist at all? Why are humans capable of becoming addicted to anything?
The answer is survival. Our nervous system and endocrine system evolved to reward us most robustly for behaviors that require real effort, and are required for survival. Getting food has -- until quite recently -- required real effort, and is of course required for personal survival. Finding a mate is often a labor-intensive undertaking, but is key to the survival of our selfish genes.
Genes are running this show. The humans who happened to have genes that rewarded them most robustly for eating and mating were most apt to eat, mate and survive long enough to pass on the chance to their progeny. Those humans who were blasé about eating and mating never got to progeny.
Food and sex are the reasons variations on the theme of addiction are physiologically possible in the first place. Almost anything else that happens to be addictive is circumstantially hijacking reward systems built for food and sex.0 -
CSARdiver- best advice so far! Thank you. You are absolutely right. My biggest issue is, I am VERY negative with myself. I am a cheerleader to my kids...feeding them all the positive feedback they need and yet when it regards myself, not a big supporter. THAT is what needs to change.
Our children observe us far more than we know. They're not going to buy your cheerleading for them, if you turn around and treat yourself poorly with a defeatist attitude.
It's never too late to grow up. You've got a problem with sweet, comfort foods. Well, you can fix the problem. Stop giving all power to the food.
Just start. Today is a new day. Start making small changes in the way you think, and the way you behave around food. Start creating some new favorite foods - delicious, wonderful food does not have to be super sweet or covered in gravy.
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There HAS to be a correlation between obesity and food addiction for some folks... I am no scientist, but I am sure that if we did a google search we would find reliable studies regarding this matter. For someone to eat themselves until they are sick, disregard the fact that their cholesterol is off the charts, they are borderline diabetic (or diabetic), blood pressure is ridiculous, and yet they keep eating because it makes them feel good (before the guilt and crash) ...HAS to have an illness with a physical/mental component... Thankfully, I am not addicted to food (or anything else for that matter), but I believe that it undermines the struggles of those who are by just telling them, "no you can not be"...something that I was guilty of thinking as well...The best advise was probably from the first poster..for those who feel that they have an unhealthy relationship with food or have family that believe that they do based on their eating habits and behaviors, should seek counseling.
For the OP, I am sure that there are many folks on here agreeing with you, but just not brave enough to say it as you did, or even admit it to themselves. As you stated, this probably was not the forum to say it, but I am sure that you may have offered some folks food for thought (no pun intended), and they will seek counseling based on your topic and these comments.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Maybe so. It seems to me that thinking of it in terms of the properties of the food rather than in terms of her decisions undermine gaining that power.
Yes. I have problems with this current tendency in pop culture to broaden the definition of addiction. It smacks of evasion. "Poor me. It's not my fault I ate the whole bag of cookies. It's the cookie's fault." No, you picked the cookies up off the shelf, you put them in the buggy, on the belt, in the bag, into the car, into the cupboard, then on to the sofa. They didn't open themselves and fly into your mouth.
Owning that and taking responsibility is the first step to stopping. The first step to not drinking all the gravy is not making it. If this is too difficult a step, seek professional assistance, because you won't find help on the internet.
So does this mean, it's the gin's or the cocaine's fault that an addict is hooked on a substance? I am not an expert in addictions, but in order to get clean, doesn't a person need to first acknowledge the problem and accept responsibility?0 -
I don't know if food addiction exists or whether it's a behavioral or chemical dependency, or compulsion, or where to draw the line from binge eating, but I don't think calling it an addiction is a problem. I have treated my cravings for certain "junk" foods like an addiction - by abstinence, and it works quite well. I do not keep trigger foods in the house, but I will eat some on occasion out of the house, and in company of others.
I believed I was weak because I wasn't satified with low-fat, sugarfree whole-grain foods. Because I believed fat was bad, I turned to chocolate, chips, ice cream and cookies (yeah, I know). I believed I needed lots of food. Turns out it was just a couple of big misunderstandings - we need fat, and taste is our guide to get the nutrients we need. Modern man-made foods have warped our tastebuds so that normal food tastes bland. Diet foods tastes bland anyway. Being force-fed as a child made my view of normal portions quite skewed.
When I stopped being afraid of fat, and started cooking, while logging here on MFP and learning about portions, and picking up my hunger and satiety cues, I started to enjoy food and the cravings are reduced to wants.
Check out some of the things written by Brian Wansink, Mark Schatzker (The Dorito Effect), Michael Pollan, Ellyn Satter, David A Kessler, Michael Moss and Allen Carr (Easyweigh to Lose Weight; you can disregard the last half of the book which is dedicated to vegetarism).0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »I don't know if food addiction exists or whether it's a behavioral or chemical dependency, or compulsion, or where to draw the line from binge eating, but I don't think calling it an addiction is a problem. I have treated my cravings for certain "junk" foods like an addiction - by abstinence, and it works quite well. I do not keep trigger foods in the house, but I will eat some on occasion out of the house, and in company of others.
I believed I was weak because I wasn't satified with low-fat, sugarfree whole-grain foods. Because I believed fat was bad, I turned to chocolate, chips, ice cream and cookies (yeah, I know). I believed I needed lots of food. Turns out it was just a couple of big misunderstandings - we need fat, and taste is our guide to get the nutrients we need. Modern man-made foods have warped our tastebuds so that normal food tastes bland. Diet foods tastes bland anyway. Being force-fed as a child made my view of normal portions quite skewed.
When I stopped being afraid of fat, and started cooking, while logging here on MFP and learning about portions, and picking up my hunger and satiety cues, I started to enjoy food and the cravings are reduced to wants.
Check out some of the things written by Brian Wansink, Mark Schatzker (The Dorito Effect), Michael Pollan, Ellyn Satter, David A Kessler, Michael Moss and Allen Carr (Easyweigh to Lose Weight; you can disregard the last half of the book which is dedicated to vegetarism).
Thank you. Articulate and helpful. 0 -
There HAS to be a correlation between obesity and food addiction for some folks... I am no scientist, but I am sure that if we did a google search we would find reliable studies regarding this matter. For someone to eat themselves until they are sick, disregard the fact that their cholesterol is off the charts, they are borderline diabetic (or diabetic), blood pressure is ridiculous, and yet they keep eating because it makes them feel good (before the guilt and crash) ...HAS to have an illness with a physical/mental component...
I think a lot of people think of it this way, but if we think about it that's not really so.
It's easily explained by someone being bad at balancing short term vs. long term outcomes (which is really common for humans). It's no different than someone choosing to do something fun vs. studying and ending up not getting into the college they wanted to.
Add to that that a lot of people just don't realize how much they eat (perhaps because they don't understanding how many calories are in things) and feel like the weight just happened to them, is out of their control, they don't really believe that simply eating less (and making those sacrifices) would have such a positive effect. It seems crazy, but I think it's the reality for many.
And, yes, habits are really strong and changing how you live your life in some significant ways (giving up things you have been used to using as comfort without understanding what will replace them) is really scary and uncomfortable sometimes, but I don't think being habitual is enough to say something is an addiction. I know there's a distinction in my mind (and yet I certainly have fallen into many of the habitual misuse of food categories and I understand the feeling of being out of control with it).I believe that it undermines the struggles of those who are by just telling them, "no you can not be"
I strongly disagree. I think it's empowering and helps focus on the real issue, which is how to change the behavior.0 -
Wow- I want to thank ALL of you for your comments and replies. I do try to keep trigger foods from the house, my trigger being sugar. I have a lot of my own inner demons that I need to face and deal with, those demons keep me feeling low. When I feel low, I eat. When I eat, I feel guilty, it is a real sad cycle. I feel a chemical reaction to sugar. I feel instant happiness and then, the crash of guilt is quickly behind. I then say, Tomorrow is a new day. I call this the tomorrow diet.
I have brought myself out of this mode several times. Then stress hits or some event forces me to deviate from my very strict regiment. Once I deviate, I fall off course and drop into the bad cycle again.
My life stress has certainly impacted my ability to stay as strong as I was in the past. My oldest daughter is autistic and is facing some tough times as she tries to become independent. She and my husband hate one another- I am her mom and it is my duty to help her. I get no support from my husband with her nor do I turn to him for it- he is not her father. He throws out insults regarding her from time to time, adding to my stress levels.
Her father died two years ago....so I am doing my best to cope. Thankfully her sister is not autistic and is much easier to manage.......see? I CAN see the positive side of things. Whenever stress becomes overwhelming, I feel food makes me comfy. Lock myself into a room with a bowl of ice cream and my troubles melt away. Pun intended.
Yes, I control my situation- but there are times I disregard my control and let my sweet addiction control me.
I've been through the therapy and self reflection. I've taken the meds for anxiety and depression- I don't believe in them. (please don't beat me up for this either, it is my own personal belief for ME). It is mind over matter. A pill does not make myproblem go away....I can make it go away. I hope today is the start for that. I think that my blog will be my therapy for now. I will vent my frustrations, moments of weakness.....and with the help of a few of my friends on here..I WILL conquer the sugar 'addiction' and the need for food to fill any void I have.0 -
Thanks Deguello- One would think so right? I am the type of person that resists the help of others. Stubborn- the sort that won't go to a Dr. Because I already know the problem. I think I can fix it myself. I have in the past, just have to find my 'self' again. Kinda lost her over the past few years. That is expected to happen when you are focused on family and put your own needs last, or not at all. The above writings is more like mental excrement. Had to take a dump ya know? Get it out to make room for better things.
Therapy can indeed be helpful for changing one's relationship with food. If therapy isn't for you, try yoga.
How Yoga Can Help End Binge Eating
One breath at a time, end the suffering of binge-eating
...According to Juliano, yoga gives people the skills to stay with what they are feeling, rather than turning to food to escape. People who are obese or suffering from eating disorders have a tendency to dissociate from their bodies -- to choose not to feel what they are feeling when they are angry, anxious, or sad. Often, they turn to food to numb themselves. "There's this sense that I have to feel better right now, " Juliano says. "There is a complete intolerance of what is happening right now." This need to escape unpleasant feelings triggers a binge.
When you eat to escape what you are feeling, you lose touch with the experience of eating, as well. This is one reason binges can spiral out of control. "You have no understanding that you are full, way past full, into uncomfortable, because you're so out of it," Juliano explains. "You have no connection to what you're eating. You're eating a pint of ice cream and can't even taste it. Or you go to make yourself some toast and before you know it, half the loaf is gone."
Mindful yoga directly challenges the habit of dissociating from your body and your present-moment experience. "The whole point of yoga is to stay connected to your body. You learn it through practice, through breathing, and through breathing through the sensations."
Read more: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-willpower/201007/how-yoga-can-help-end-binge-eating
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I agree that eating healthy is difficult for some (including me). I have figured out I have an unhealthy relationship with food and I'm working on it...with that said..
I don't think you can compare drug addiction and/or withdrawal to healthy eating.0 -
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@kshama2001 I bookmarked the link and will read it. Thank you.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Maybe so. It seems to me that thinking of it in terms of the properties of the food rather than in terms of her decisions undermine gaining that power.
Yes. I have problems with this current tendency in pop culture to broaden the definition of addiction. It smacks of evasion. "Poor me. It's not my fault I ate the whole bag of cookies. It's the cookie's fault." No, you picked the cookies up off the shelf, you put them in the buggy, on the belt, in the bag, into the car, into the cupboard, then on to the sofa. They didn't open themselves and fly into your mouth.
Owning that and taking responsibility is the first step to stopping. The first step to not drinking all the gravy is not making it. If this is too difficult a step, seek professional assistance, because you won't find help on the internet.
So does this mean, it's the gin's or the cocaine's fault that an addict is hooked on a substance? I am not an expert in addictions, but in order to get clean, doesn't a person need to first acknowledge the problem and accept responsibility?
The traditional AA approach (which is somewhat controversial) is that you have to accept that you have no control over the substance and part of that is not drinking.
Obviously that's a problem if you are saying you have no control over food, as you can't not eat--that's what the OP seemed to be getting at in her first post.
But that's not what most obese people are experiencing, which is why I think approaching it as about a habit and focusing on the specifics of what's going on when someone feels out of control or eats more than was planned is more helpful than just saying "I'm an addict so will react differently from other people."
Quite often changing behavior in simple ways can help us feel far more control.0 -
Yeah, my brother is addicted to meth. Between food and actual drugs, I can tell you pretty plainly which is worse, and which is a real addiction. I feel like this thread was created in the hopes of some form of coddling.0
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...Why can't I take pleasure in something physical, feel those same endorphins race through me after a nice walk around the block?
I can! Well, maybe not the same endorphins, but I can certainly change my state via exercise. Something feel-goody usually kicks in after about 15 minutes.
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shrinkingletters wrote: »Yeah, my brother is addicted to meth. Between food and actual drugs, I can tell you pretty plainly which is worse, and which is a real addiction. I feel like this thread was created in the hopes of some form of coddling.
Yep...pretty certain my dad was never around growing up because of cocaine....not hostess products.0 -
I have brought myself out of this mode several times. Then stress hits or some event forces me to deviate from my very strict regiment. Once I deviate, I fall off course and drop into the bad cycle again.
I can really, really relate to this.
One thing that helped me a lot this time (I've lost 95 lbs between Jan '14 and Feb '15 and have been maintaining it since then) was being much easier on myself and seeing this as a process, not all or nothing. All or nothing thinking was responsible for me quitting things in the past over and over, since I'd decide if I couldn't meet my standards of perfection I might as well give up as it wasn't the right time.
This time, for whatever reason, I started with a longterm and shortterm plan but also just started by focusing on a few simple things and if I screwed up I used it as a learning experience -- thought about why I'd not been successful and what would help me going forward. As I got the first things down, I added additional things to work on and so on.
I'm far from perfect at this even now -- I have found that with the excitement of losing over some of the emotional/stress eating things that had been mostly gone came back and I had to work through again how to deal, but not being so hard on myself has helped. And thinking about it really logically -- it's just food, that maybe furthers, maybe doesn't further my goals, it's not who I am as a person -- has also helped a lot.
I am sorry you are going through so much right now, and I hope you start feeling more control and things get easier in general.
I actually found something similar to the blogging thing helpful -- I kept a journal just for me and during the early days of my weight loss I used it when I felt like eating to get more mindful and when I was struggling with emotions or stress and also to note down what seemed to be working and what wasn't -- that actually helped a lot in transitioning from the all or nothing thinking.
Good luck!0 -
Wow- I want to thank ALL of you for your comments and replies. I do try to keep trigger foods from the house, my trigger being sugar. I have a lot of my own inner demons that I need to face and deal with, those demons keep me feeling low. When I feel low, I eat. When I eat, I feel guilty, it is a real sad cycle. I feel a chemical reaction to sugar. I feel instant happiness and then, the crash of guilt is quickly behind. I then say, Tomorrow is a new day. I call this the tomorrow diet...
Sugar can be a trigger for me too. However, the less of added sugar and baked goods I eat, the less I want. I make sure to not skip meals, and eat plenty of protein, fat, fiber, and veggies. I can have higher sugar foods after dinner - earlier in the day it will mess up my whole day. I've been eating more whole fruit (not juice, not dried fruit), which satisfies my sweet tooth for a whole lot less calories.
I've been using exercise to deal with stress rather than a pint of Ben & Jerry's. It took some retraining of my brain, but it's mostly working.
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@lemurcat12 Thank you. Congratulations on your weight loss.0
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shrinkingletters wrote: »Yeah, my brother is addicted to meth. Between food and actual drugs, I can tell you pretty plainly which is worse, and which is a real addiction. I feel like this thread was created in the hopes of some form of coddling.
No- It was a rant or venting. I later realized the better medium would be a blog rather than a forum like this. I don't coddle, nor do I look to be coddled. We are in our situations as adults because we either created it or allowed it. Most certainly not looking to be babied, coddled, told all will be okay.
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I accidentally fell into this forum trap once. Note; fat weighs the same as muscle and addiction is limited SOLELY to heroin. If you remember those two facts, you're better able to swim these waters. Oh, and speaking of waters, you don't need 8 glasses a day.0
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