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Sugar withdrawal?
Replies
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wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/
OK here is an explanation by the doctor himself and he does not say an addiction caused by modern wheat will give you a high like heroin but that it will make you feel hungry a couple of hours after you eat it. On average this will cause a person eating wheat to eat 160,600 more calories a year than the same person would eat if they ate nothing containing gliadin.
He writes, "This is the effect exerted by gliadin, the protein in wheat that was inadvertently altered by geneticists in the 1970s during efforts to increase yield. Just a few shifts in amino acids and gliadin in modern high-yield, semi-dwarf wheat became a potent appetite stimulant."
Gliadin is a new term for me. I did find the below research entitled, "Is gliadin really safe for non‐coeliac individuals? Production of interleukin 15 in biopsy culture from non‐coeliac individuals challenged with gliadin peptides"
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/
Sugar will not give you hunger like wheat he states. Most all eat sugar will also eat wheat I expect in one form or another. Because I gave up sugars and grains at the same time is the reason I tested what Dr. Davis stated about sugar by adding back sugar for eight days. It did not cause me to crash but I did gain 5-6 pounds. I will see how long it takes to lose that gain.0 -
It isn't even fat adaptations though. They're specifically adaptions to high levels of omega-3's. It is probably about as adaptive as lactase persistence in Western cultures - not terribly big news.
The article you cite is about fat metabolism differences, not carbohydrates. It talks about genes forlemurcat12 wrote: »
Actually the Inuit don't eat a ketogenic diet. Even in the winter when they turn to eating almost nothing but animal meat, they tend to eat raw portions of some animals (they'd become vitamin c deficient otherwise) and raw meat and blubber contains a fair amount of glycogen. As high as 20% of their diet is carbohydrate this way.stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Sugar is a toxin in the same sense water is toxin, or salt is a toxin. Everything is poison if the dose is high enough.lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
They're only contradictory if one presumes that "sugar withdrawal" == "low carb flu." It's certainly possible that "low carb flu" is not, in fact, "sugar withdrawal."lemurcat12 wrote: »Even though I'm putting really healthy and nourishing things in my body, I feel extremely tired and worn down. I'm sleeping better than I ever have before. Is this sugar withdrawal?
No, there's no such thing as sugar withdrawal (no more than there's food withdrawal just because starvation is unpleasant). Especially if you are eating sugar (which is in fruits and vegetables also).
....If you have actually cut carbs dramatically, it could be low carb flu, too.
.
Those two statements are a bit contradictory, IMO. There is a sugar withdrawal for many as there body adapts to a new way of using fuels. It is called the low carb flu when carbs are dropped a great deal. It is also called fat or keto adaptation.
This. Low carb flu is indeed the body adjusting to using ketones rather than glucose (this is not the same as fat adaption -- people not in ketosis can still burn fat, of course). But that doesn't mean that there was something "addictive" or maladapted about the body's use of glucose. If the keto flu is "sugar withdrawal," than the symptoms of starvation are "food withdrawal" and dehydration is "water withdrawal."
I would disagree. You are exaggerating to try to make a point.
Withdrawal is the removal of something, often a toxin, when referring to health, or at the very least a less healthful, unnecessary substance, from your system and acclimating to a healthier set point. Sugar can be a toxin, diabetes wouldn't be as much of a problem is it wasn't.
Water and food are essential. Removing them is not what most would consider to be a withdrawal, but more of an attempt damaging one's health, not improving it.
JMOlemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
They're only contradictory if one presumes that "sugar withdrawal" == "low carb flu." It's certainly possible that "low carb flu" is not, in fact, "sugar withdrawal."lemurcat12 wrote: »Even though I'm putting really healthy and nourishing things in my body, I feel extremely tired and worn down. I'm sleeping better than I ever have before. Is this sugar withdrawal?
No, there's no such thing as sugar withdrawal (no more than there's food withdrawal just because starvation is unpleasant). Especially if you are eating sugar (which is in fruits and vegetables also).
....If you have actually cut carbs dramatically, it could be low carb flu, too.
.
Those two statements are a bit contradictory, IMO. There is a sugar withdrawal for many as there body adapts to a new way of using fuels. It is called the low carb flu when carbs are dropped a great deal. It is also called fat or keto adaptation.
This. Low carb flu is indeed the body adjusting to using ketones rather than glucose (this is not the same as fat adaption -- people not in ketosis can still burn fat, of course). But that doesn't mean that there was something "addictive" or maladapted about the body's use of glucose. If the keto flu is "sugar withdrawal," than the symptoms of starvation are "food withdrawal" and dehydration is "water withdrawal."
Wouldn't that be:
The symptoms of food withdrawal - starvation
The symptoms of water withdrawal - dehydration
?
Nope.
Starving is your body reacting to not having food. The unpleasant symptoms associated with it (hungry, weakness, weight loss, eventual death) are not, of course, normally considered a form of withdrawal, but it would make as much sense to call them such as it does to call the keto flu "sugar withdrawal."
We normally apply "withdrawal" to the body's reaction to being without something bad for us. But the reason you get keto flu isn't that you were "addicted to sugar" or that sugar (here, glucose) is bad for us or we are dependent on it in a way that is contrary to our well-being. It's a normal reaction due to the fact that the human body normal runs on glucose and seems to prefer to do so.
I don't think we've established that OP is likely to have keto flu, as it's not clear that he's gone low carb, just that he's cut down on junk food.
For close to half of the population, the bolded is indeed true. Sugar is bad for us, we are dependent on it until fat adapted, and it is contrary to our well being. I do not think that human bodies run best on glucose, but I do believe it uses glucose first because it needs to get the glucose out of the blood stream before damage is done.
I don't know of a single health issue that could be partially caused by a ketogenic diet, but I know of many health problems that may be caused (partiall) by too much glucose.
I know OP is probably not eating a ketogenic diet, but he is cutting sugar and feeling it. I doubt it is in his head.
Sugar is also fundamentally required for human life, like water or salt.
I have a hard time imagining why animal that's not too distant ancestors were frugivores would run better using fat for fuel than sugar.
Claiming glucose is like heroin, since the body prefers to run on glucose than other sources of energy, when every traditional human diet we know of is NOT ketogenic, is such a self-evidently silly position that it needs no response.
Again, if keto flu=withdrawal, the claim is not that excessive sugar is bad for us (which is obviously true) or even that sugar in any quantity is bad for us (which is generally false, certainly for normal people not on drugs like steroids or with a preexisting health condition or both), but that it is bad for us for the body to use glucose as fuel -- which is the norm in most if not all human populations.
This might also be a good time to mention that the Inuit, the one population I know of that eats traditionally ketogenic, apparently have a significantly shorter life span than the national averages of most first world countries, and it's not getting better.
Might have nothing to do with their diet, but worth mentioning anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis#Controversy
Oh that's neat!
Found this, too:
http://highsteaks.com/forum/health-nutrition-and-science/carbs-glycogen-meat-611.0.html
The Inuit practice of preserving a whole seal or bird carcass under an intact whole skin with a thick layer of blubber also permits some proteins to ferment, or hydrolyze, into carbohydrates.
However, it concludes:
Traditional Inuit diets derive approximately 50% of their calories from fat, 30-35% from protein and 15-20% of their calories from carbohydrates, largely in the form of glycogen from the raw meat they consumed.
Still low enough for ketosis for everyone I've ever heard of.
The study I've seen was that Inuits go into ketosis at lower levels (for example, if fasting), but not that that level, even though for most of us that would be so low as to cause ketosis. The idea is adaptation.
(And this certainly could be related to Inuits doing worse on higher carb diets than some other groups, I suppose.)
It sounds like part of their adaptation is to not produce measurable ketones at levels we would produce them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they learn the Inuit are specifically adapted to lower carbs in every way, just like people born to many generations of high altitude peoples are adapted to high altitude.
There is a recent study on innuit genes that shows adaptive genes.
http://m.sciencemag.org/content/349/6254/1343.short
It sounds like the sciencers are unclear on the meaning, but definite differences.
1. Producing more brown fat cells in their body for heat.
2. Better handling of high amounts of omega-3's in their diet.
Normally, Omega-3's, found strongly in a marine diet, cause anti-inflammation responses. Excessive amounts would of anti-inflammation is a bad thing, just as excessive inflammation is. I would therefore believe the adapations would be in terms of having a higher inflammation response than normal to compensate, but as this is just an outline, I do not know.
Nowhere does the abstract talk about a difference in carbohydrate metabolism or ketosis.
Just observations from a sciencer looking at the science.
The article was linked to support the general speculation of genetic adaption to diet, that's all.
I'm pretty sure that a species would not ever develop an adaption to something that is negligably present in their existence and non-essential (inuit/carbs). Optimizing for high fat diet would seem to be the shizzle necessary.
I'm also not sure why you'd want to show the Inuit are specially adapted to a low carb / high fat diet. The implication would be that there then is an evolutionary pressure on people that aren't adapted to it. This would mean for most people of European, Asian, and African descent eating low carb would be unhealthy - eating in such a way would apparently be problematic enough that it at some point killed off some Inuits at an early age or at least left them unable to reproduce as well as others.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/
OK here is an explanation by the doctor himself and he does not say an addiction caused by modern wheat will give you a high like heroin but that it will make you feel hungry a couple of hours after you eat it. On average this will cause a person eating wheat to eat 160,600 more calories a year than the same person would eat if they ate nothing containing gliadin.
He writes, "This is the effect exerted by gliadin, the protein in wheat that was inadvertently altered by geneticists in the 1970s during efforts to increase yield. Just a few shifts in amino acids and gliadin in modern high-yield, semi-dwarf wheat became a potent appetite stimulant."
Gliadin is a new term for me. I did find the below research entitled, "Is gliadin really safe for non‐coeliac individuals? Production of interleukin 15 in biopsy culture from non‐coeliac individuals challenged with gliadin peptides"
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/
Sugar will not give you hunger like wheat he states. Most all eat sugar will also eat wheat I expect in one form or another. Because I gave up sugars and grains at the same time is the reason I tested what Dr. Davis stated about sugar by adding back sugar for eight days. It did not cause me to crash but I did gain 5-6 pounds. I will see how long it takes to lose that gain.
Okay. If you want to say that wheat is an opiate and that therefore it is like heroin, you have to accept that endorphins (which comes from endogenous morphine, with morphine being an opiate) which are an opoid (biologically natural opiate) is therefore addictive too, just because the chemical structure is similar. Yet, I don't see daily posts on MFP about having exercise addiction or withdrawal. Could you tell me why that is?0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/
OK here is an explanation by the doctor himself and he does not say an addiction caused by modern wheat will give you a high like heroin but that it will make you feel hungry a couple of hours after you eat it.
So this doesn't seem relevant to the OP, does it?
Also IME it's not true.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/
OK here is an explanation by the doctor himself and he does not say an addiction caused by modern wheat will give you a high like heroin but that it will make you feel hungry a couple of hours after you eat it. On average this will cause a person eating wheat to eat 160,600 more calories a year than the same person would eat if they ate nothing containing gliadin.
He writes, "This is the effect exerted by gliadin, the protein in wheat that was inadvertently altered by geneticists in the 1970s during efforts to increase yield. Just a few shifts in amino acids and gliadin in modern high-yield, semi-dwarf wheat became a potent appetite stimulant."
Gliadin is a new term for me. I did find the below research entitled, "Is gliadin really safe for non‐coeliac individuals? Production of interleukin 15 in biopsy culture from non‐coeliac individuals challenged with gliadin peptides"
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/
Sugar will not give you hunger like wheat he states. Most all eat sugar will also eat wheat I expect in one form or another. Because I gave up sugars and grains at the same time is the reason I tested what Dr. Davis stated about sugar by adding back sugar for eight days. It did not cause me to crash but I did gain 5-6 pounds. I will see how long it takes to lose that gain.
Okay. If you want to say that wheat is an opiate and that therefore it is like heroin, you have to accept that endorphins (which comes from endogenous morphine, with morphine being an opiate) which are an opoid (biologically natural opiate) is therefore addictive too, just because the chemical structure is similar. Yet, I don't see daily posts on MFP about having exercise addiction or withdrawal. Could you tell me why that is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction
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Sugar withdrawal is not real. LOL
/thread
Now if we're talking caffeine withdrawal..that *kitten* is real! :P0 -
A. I didn't ask for a Wikipedia article on it, I asked why we don't see it daily on MFP.Gianfranco_R wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »wheatbellyblog.com/2012/04/wheat-is-an-opiate/
OK here is an explanation by the doctor himself and he does not say an addiction caused by modern wheat will give you a high like heroin but that it will make you feel hungry a couple of hours after you eat it. On average this will cause a person eating wheat to eat 160,600 more calories a year than the same person would eat if they ate nothing containing gliadin.
He writes, "This is the effect exerted by gliadin, the protein in wheat that was inadvertently altered by geneticists in the 1970s during efforts to increase yield. Just a few shifts in amino acids and gliadin in modern high-yield, semi-dwarf wheat became a potent appetite stimulant."
Gliadin is a new term for me. I did find the below research entitled, "Is gliadin really safe for non‐coeliac individuals? Production of interleukin 15 in biopsy culture from non‐coeliac individuals challenged with gliadin peptides"
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/
Sugar will not give you hunger like wheat he states. Most all eat sugar will also eat wheat I expect in one form or another. Because I gave up sugars and grains at the same time is the reason I tested what Dr. Davis stated about sugar by adding back sugar for eight days. It did not cause me to crash but I did gain 5-6 pounds. I will see how long it takes to lose that gain.
Okay. If you want to say that wheat is an opiate and that therefore it is like heroin, you have to accept that endorphins (which comes from endogenous morphine, with morphine being an opiate) which are an opoid (biologically natural opiate) is therefore addictive too, just because the chemical structure is similar. Yet, I don't see daily posts on MFP about having exercise addiction or withdrawal. Could you tell me why that is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction
B. Some of the first statements in that article are about how it isn't a recognized condition.0 -
Well it is all in your head. But human consciousness surfs on a sea of chemical reactions. The foods we consume are just one of the many things that affect those chemical reactions.
Want proof? How many people have you heard say they won't make important decisions while hungry or tired?
Hi
That is also why they say do not go grocery shopping when You are hungry.
Have a nice day
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