Why the SL haters?

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sistrsprkl
sistrsprkl Posts: 1,013 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
The other day I met with the owner of my (weight lifting) gym and he seemed pretty against me continuing SL 5x5 bc I'm a newb to lifting (I did SL for 3 months then have taken a couple months off). He wants to put me on a 3 day program 2x a week incorporating free weights, body weight & machines to help my muscles and tendons prepare for heavy lifting. I'm torn, he has some good points but I really loved SL and was doing just fine w it. Advice? I'm meeting with him soon so he can at least critique my lifting form - which I need.
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Replies

  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    edited September 2015
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    you already know what the right move is
  • sistrsprkl
    sistrsprkl Posts: 1,013 Member
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    DavPul wrote: »
    you already know what the move is

    You're right. Thank you.
  • boomshakalaka911
    boomshakalaka911 Posts: 655 Member
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    SL is fine. I don't know wtf he is talking about preparing joints. 5x5 uses compound movements. And as long as you have correct form through the lift you're fine. Good recovery time and perfect amount of volume and intensity. SL prepares your CNS for more advanced training
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,529 Member
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    You get to pick what you believe you'll stick with. That's how you stay consistent.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • TheopolisAmbroiseIII
    TheopolisAmbroiseIII Posts: 197 Member
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    SL is so simple you don't need to pay a trainer for anything past form critique.
  • PixelPuff
    PixelPuff Posts: 901 Member
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    You sure he isn't trying to just get some 1 on 1 time with you? /actual question due to personal experience with stepbro's gym
  • lisalsd1
    lisalsd1 Posts: 1,521 Member
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    Huh? My thought is that he is feeding you bs, so he can sell you supplements, etc. I used SL before I started 5/3/1. SL prepared me just fine to lift heavy.
  • armylife
    armylife Posts: 196 Member
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    It is a myth that you have to prepare your tendons and joints to lift heavy differently then you prepare your muscles. As you build up to heavier weight your joints and tendons will adapt, just like your muscles. That is the point. The other post are right, sounds scam-ish, and you should do what you believe is going to keep you coming back week after week.

    One additional question, you said gym owner, not kinesiologist, personal trainer, competitive lifter, USAW coach or athlete, ad absurdum, so why is he qualified to critique your lifting form?
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
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    boomshakalaka911 wrote: »
    SL is fine. I don't know wtf he is talking about preparing joints. 5x5 uses compound movements. And as long as you have correct form through the lift you're fine. Good recovery time and perfect amount of volume and intensity. SL prepares your CNS for more advanced training

    Yup. And the program is designed to start with low weight so you can learn and improve your form before really getting heavy. And if you're concerned about your form, you can always record yourself and post videos for form feedback.
  • WrkinProg55
    WrkinProg55 Posts: 45 Member
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    Unfortunately most gym workers care more about there commission then you. I just started lifting. What is SL 5x5? sounds like something I wanna try!
  • piperdown44
    piperdown44 Posts: 958 Member
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    That's ridiculous! SL 5x5 is a beginner lifting program.
    You can run it for many, many cycles before needing to switch to an intermediate program.
    Heck, I've been back lifting for the past 3 years and occasionally I'll run it just to increase squat volume.
  • armylife
    armylife Posts: 196 Member
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    WrkinProg55 wrote: »
    Unfortunately most gym workers care more about there commission then you. I just started lifting. What is SL 5x5? sounds like something I wanna try!

    http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

    As with most workouts if you don't follow the program you are not following the program. I know that sounds ridiculous to say but people get program ADD and feel they have to change things, then shun a quality program because it "didn't work".
  • Krisfit40
    Krisfit40 Posts: 106 Member
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    The theory that your joints need to adapt is not a myth.. But doing 5x5's for an experienced and stronger person is different than a beginner.. A beginner is trying to get strong from nothing and an advanced lifter is using maximum effort to get to the next weight. If you are already doing great with it and your body adapted just fine then the guy feeding you that BS is trying to take you out for a nice steak dinner:) if he was concerned about your fitness level increasing then he would just feed off of what you already know how to do well and not try to get you to start over
  • ValGogo
    ValGogo Posts: 2,168 Member
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    What SL haters? I dont think they exist. Do YOU girl and get your lift on!!!!
  • armylife
    armylife Posts: 196 Member
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    Krisfit40 wrote: »
    The theory that your joints need to adapt is not a myth.. But doing 5x5's for an experienced and stronger person is different than a beginner.. A beginner is trying to get strong from nothing and an advanced lifter is using maximum effort to get to the next weight. If you are already doing great with it and your body adapted just fine then the guy feeding you that BS is trying to take you out for a nice steak dinner:) if he was concerned about your fitness level increasing then he would just feed off of what you already know how to do well and not try to get you to start over

    The theory that your joints somehow adapt outside of the normal physiological adaptations that lifting heavy causes is a myth. In the absents of chemical enhancement the muscles are not going to develop so quickly they can pull off their attachments. Likewise if you are a beginner you don't have the strength to lift the weight necessary to cause that amount of stress is you lift with proper form and a solid recovery.

    Science:
    "Unfortunately, as noted by Faigen- baum and Polakowski (8), it has been incorrectly suggested that the weight- lifting movements are more dangerous to perform than more traditional types of training."

    http://staff.argyle.esc11.net/cms/lib/TX21000387/Centricity/Domain/176/Weightlifting Movements Highlighted Info.pdf

    Meaning you have as high a risk of injuring a joint doing calisthenics and body weight movement as with weightlifting.

    Also, the point of 5x5, 5/3/1, TM, Westside, Blackiornbeast, and every other powerlifting based routine is maximum output, even for beginners. They don't start lifting low weights because they are trying to prepare their joints for what's next, they lift lower weight because that is what they are capable of lifting. The difference in experienced lifters in beginners is in the difficulty of achieving adaptation. That is why beginners don't need to worry about rest time, tempo, and changing rep schemes. That comes once adaptation has stopped. I honestly wish someone would have grabbed me my the short and curly and told me not to invest time in that until it was necessary.
  • KenziesFrenzies
    KenziesFrenzies Posts: 1,014 Member
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    SL is a great workout for beginners to the compound workout/movement routine. I did it for a few months, and then progressed to more advanced (and heavier) exercises, so I think that guy's just trying to sell you personal training.

    If you think about it, workouts like StrongLifts are a threat to the personal training industry, because it's all laid out for you and you can do it yourself.
    So I wouldn't be surprised at all if trainers started hating on it, to scare people away from it and boost their own business. (Much like a nail technician would bash an at-home manicure kit..)
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
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    TheopolisAmbroiseIII wrote: »
    SL is so simple you don't need to pay a trainer for anything past form critique.

    Bingo
  • hamlet1222
    hamlet1222 Posts: 459 Member
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    I do a modified version of SL with more rest days, the addition of chin ups, and just deadlifts for the legs (I only do squats as a warm up with low weights, because I don't have a rack and can only safely use weights I'm capable of getting over my head).

    It's a nice simple routine, my only problem with it is the guy who promotes it 'my way or the highway attitude' to anyone who suggests tweaking the approach/frequency.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    SL is great for a new lifter with little to no knowledge of how to program their own training. If you enjoy it and it's working for you then keep doing it. The important thing to remember is that if it supports your training goals and you're seeing progress towards those goals, then what you're doing is good.

    If you're following the SL Program then the weight is already pretty light I would imagine, which should give you practice for the reps and allow your body to adapt to the movements. If you were jumping into a program that had you doing triples and doubles at 85%+ of your training max then I would say he'd be right, but that's not how SL works so you should be fine.

    One thing to consider is that he may have a background in building programs and if he's good at it, then he may prefer to evaluate a client's movement and build a custom program around the results of that evaluation. The NASM and NSCA have a training system that is customized to the individual based on their previous training experience, goals / needs, and current fitness ability; that could be where he's coming from as well.

    What you're doing is probably great for now, but SL does have a limited shelf-lift so at some point you'll likely need to change programs and if this guy is good at what he does then you may consider hearing him out. If he's a fool then just move on to something else when that time comes. LOL
  • boomshakalaka911
    boomshakalaka911 Posts: 655 Member
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    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    The NASM and NSCA have a training system that is customized to the individual based on their previous training experience, goals / needs, and current fitness ability; that could be where he's coming from as well.

    Nasm doesn't say anything about prepping joints and tendons in the OPT model. Because prepping your joints and tendons is bro science. Stabilization and balance is what it recommends. That's only for those that have no athletic background and pretty much lived sedentary lives.

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