The fundamentals of successful longterm weightloss for everyone.

Patttience

I have road tested these fundamentals myself. Currently been in maintenance 10 months. applied them for a further 10 months though necessarily all of them from the beginning because some I learnt along the way. Those i started off with, i had learnt from previous experience of failure. This is what's called learning from your mistakes. If you don't learn from your mistakes, you will fail but i understand that it is not so easy to understand what the mistake you made actually was , hence I am giving you a helping hand.

1. Calories in, Calories out is true but there is more to long term successful weightloss than this. If you run your diet as though it were as simple as CICO you will , then you will be back at square one sooner or later. The remaining fundamentals are hints as to why that happens so please work on incorporating these other fundamentals into your personal approach as soon as you.

2. Exercise is not the answer to successful long term weight. You do not need to exercise to lose weight and relying on it can be the reason why you fail. Exercise for health and fitness, not for weightloss. The studies generally show that people tend to replace all the calories burnt through exercise. To out-exercise your consumption you have to do a lot (more than an hour a day most days of the week) and that's not sustainable for the vast majority even in the short term let alone the long-term. This one I have fallen victim to more times than i can count. Exercise moderately for your health and do it when you feel like it. And if you have a great deal to lose, you are better off focusing almost all your effort on diet until you are inside your healthy weight range. Maybe I should write a blog on this because there are a lot of angles to cover.

If you choose to start off with exercise from the outset, when you stop you may find it takes a few weeks for your appetite to settle down but you should not be alarmed at a temporary rise in the scales. This is pretty normal. Do not panic. And do not give up your diet when you stop exercise. Everything is going to be fine so long as you continue to hold the line on your diet.

4. Do not severely cut your calories for too long. The general concensus seems to be a maximum of three months. Personally i think you are much better off not severely cutting calories at all. It will increase your chances of long term success if you don't cut your calories severely. Besides rapid weightloss has health consequences that may not be obvious for many years eg gallstones. For those moderately overweight, a loss of about one pound or less per week is ideal but if you are very overweight, aiming for a loss of two pounds seems to be the ideal. The thing is if you are hungry, your calorie deficit may be too severe. Significant cuts in your calories results in slowing metabolism over about three months. Most people don't seem to know this. When you find you metabolism has slowed (when you start to find weight loss going really slowly despite still eating at a moderate deficit, then you should reboot your metabolism by increasing your calories for a little while. YOu will not put on a much weight but it will have a great postive effect on your future ability to lose weight. You should not start eating all the crap that you have been training yourself to eat less of.

4. Fruit and vegetables! Especially vegetables! Become a fan. Fruit and veg are low calorie, they fill you up and release their energy slowly and give you the nutrition you need to make long term weight loss easier. Along with protein, these are the foods that help you avoid hunger the best. Develop your skills in the kitchen with these foods so that you can stop hating them. Actually an extension of this fundamental is to eat a wide variety of food all the time. I read about a study where it was determined that one should be trying to eat about 30 different foods each week in order to reach optimum nutrition. If you refuse to become a vegetable lover, I cannot see how it is at all possible for you to lose weight and maintain it for the long term.

5. Eat the right amount of protein for your weight. (google it) Its not just about satiety. It's fundamentally about reducing loss of muscle mass. Muscle is protein and you need to eat protein and move to maintain muscle mass. You don't need to exericse hugely but you do need to use your muscles. Apparently large people do hide a quite a bit of muscle underneath it all. This is because it's needed to carry the weight. As you lose weight, your body naturally adjusts it's muscle mass to your new weight. This is not a bad thing but if you are eating a low calorie diet, you will lose more than should which leads to that gaunt look when people get down to the bottom end of their healthy weight range.

6. Do include fat in your diet. You can lose weight fairly easily and still eat up to 40% calories from fat. Restricting fat severely makes losing weight less enjoyable because much food tastes cardboardy without it and it can have health consequences. So choose mostly healthy fats such as cold pressed virgin oils, nuts, seeds, avocados, and oily fish but avoid low fat dieting.

7. A happy mood is vital for easy weightloss and successful longterm maintenance so failing to pay attention to your mental wellbeing and not working on improving your self-messaging will undermine your best efforts and intentions at any moment. This is partly because your mood is not just psychological. It is also biological. External events can lead to hormonal changes and you want to have your hormonse well balanced for successful weightloss. It's worth learning about the role of hormones for weightloss. Its fascinating and are significantly ignored area. Of course we can't always be happy all the time. But if you are prone to stress, or depression you must learn to fend these off before they can take root. This is why councilling and personal growth is vital when you have issues. There are some very good books around - seek them out and don't stop reading and learning until you feel you are in charge of your mental wellbeing and not subject to every passing stiff breeze. Prioritise your mental wellbeing. If your lifestyle is stressful (work, kids, difficult husband/family), develop your ability to resist feeling the stress. Some people are naturally really good at handling stress. And others (myself included ) are very bad at it. If you lack the skills, get professional help and train yourself. Develop your self-awareness. It's a slow process but its so worth it. One way to speed things is up is by spending some learning Mindfulness meditation and especially through a buddhist channel if you can. One reason why the buddhist approach to it is better than pure secular approach is because the buddhist approach includes ethical principles and practices and the secular approach doesn't.

8. Get organised in the kitchen. Become a functional cook so you can enjoy your healthy food. To be successful long term, you will most likely need to cook for yourself most of the time. I wouldn't say meal plans are essential though you might find them useful. Learn to cook, keep your fridge well stocked, shop for fruit and veg in season to keep costs down. Vary your diet. Get some recipe books. Cultivate your knowledge of flavours and simply traditional cooking techniques. Find a way to make it an enjoyable part of your life. If you are very busy, work out ways to be more efficient in the kitchen. My latest idea is to soak and cook my legumes and store them in the freezer in suitable portion sizes so that its quick to make a new dish when i need to. If you've got a family, the kids need to be eating healthy too so get the whole family going along with you. Could your best efforst really be sustainable the hubby and kids are eating junk food all the time while you eat so well.

9. Everybody has an ultimately ideal healthy weight which may hover around a few pounds either way. It may not be the one you decide on yourself at the outset. But this is the goal weight you want to find in the long run. Also with age it will change a little, mostly upwards. And for sure, i'm convinced that if you are doing all the right things (as eludicated above), that number lies somewhere within your healthy weight range though for people who have been very overweight all their lives, it may take some time to get to this point. This particular theory (set point theory) is actually still somewehat contentious I understand but my readings about it and experience with trying to achieve it, convince me it's true. The person i've read who describes it best is Dr Amanda Sainsbury-Salis in her book The Don't Go Hungry Diet so if you want to understand this concept, then i'd get her book but you don't need to. The main take home point, i would try to show is that if you aim too low you will struggle to maintain if you aim too high you are short changing yourself. Maintenance should be fairly easy after a while of getting used to it. The longer you do it and the more you resolve your lifestyle issues the easier maintenance is. But it can take some time so you can't just stop doing everything when you reach goal.

These are the fundamentals that affect EVERYONE's ability to succeed in the long term with weightloss. You can't expect to get your own personal recipe right from your first attempt but if you understand the fundamentals, and try to work them into your personal approach, you will find it easier and you will be more successful. I guarantee it. That said, there will be people here who are suited to doing a lot of exercise for the long term. But this is not most people. Look at athletes. Many get fat when they stop competing. My sister is one person I know who seems suited to lots of exercise but she has never been overweight a day in her life. The people who seem most suited to lots of exercise in the long-term are people like my sister who've never been overweight.

Feel free to debate any of these ideas with me or ask questions.

I'm not sure this is a complete list but it does take care of the main things we all can benefit from understanding.

socioseguro

Thank you for sharing

TrailBlazzinMN

Patttience wrote: »

1. Calories in, Calories out is true but there is more to long term successful weightloss than this. If you run your diet as though it were as simple as CICO you will , then you will be back at square one sooner or later. The remaining fundamentals are hints as to why that happens so please work on incorporating these other fundamentals into your personal approach as soon as you.

This. Times a billion.

dhimaan

Nice post.

SezxyStef

TrailBlazzinMN wrote: »

Patttience wrote: »

1. Calories in, Calories out is true but there is more to long term successful weightloss than this. If you run your diet as though it were as simple as CICO you will , then you will be back at square one sooner or later. The remaining fundamentals are hints as to why that happens so please work on incorporating these other fundamentals into your personal approach as soon as you.

This. Times a billion.

I think for weight loss it really is as simple as CICO...but once you get past "weight loss" and into health it does change.

CICO simplicity does not mean you will gain the weight back...lots don't...just using CICO.

The rest are more for health and fitness...

I have come to realize the vast majority of people don't care about health and fitness and losing fat not muscle...all they care about is getting to that lower weight/smaller size.

Health and fitness are beasts on their own and it takes a driven person to throw away the "old" ideas of lower weight is ideal and getting on board with health and fitness...

I agree they are important...more important than the scale or clothing size.

Patttience

Stef, if it were this simple in practice, there would be much more long term success than there is in reality.

The truth is that most people who attempt weightloss fail in both the short and long term.

Again, CICO is accurate but its only useful in theory. In practice, in reality, people need more insight, advice and guidance. People don't even realise they don't know what CICO implies. Hence they go wrong.

Let me spell it out for you by giving you a common scenario.

Many people who are overweight also have a bit of depression. They are also not in peak nutritional condition. Both of these things conspire to make controlling their appetite difficult. So telling someone just eat less will not work. They won't be able to do it. Proof is in the knowledge that most people cannot willy nilly just start losing weight anytime the thought pops into their mind. People need to be readied. And what that means is a deep and unexplored territory. I've never ever seen a book discuss this.

that said, having been through it and over it numerous times and with all my research into hormones and understanding of how depression affects me, i have a pretty good clue as to what is going on there. This is why i make keeping myself happy one of my top priorities.

Now if you are going to persist in disagreeing with me, at least have the good grace to understand what my post is about. Perhaps read it through a couple of times - with an open mind.

SezxyStef

I got the post...and to be frank I didn't disagree with you...not totally.

I agree that all but the first point are true but until people get past the thought that it's the scale number or a clothing size that is most important those points will be lost on most...

Are they lost on me...no. I follow them all except for giving up foods like sweets (as I eat my chocolate bar)

The key is education about the difference between simple weight loss and healthy weight loss, nutrition, health and fitness..

weight loss in itself as I said before is about CICO...otherwise MFP wouldn't be a success...it's about counting calories and CICO...for weight loss.

all your other points are based in health/fitness which again are lost on a lot of folks unfortunately.

Now I am not disagreeing with you totally...only on one point...perhaps you need to read my first post a couple more times without seeing that I disagree with the first point only...with less of a defensive posture perhaps.?????

PS don't PM me in regards to this sort of thing if you have already posted here.

Patttience

I am defensive becuase you post undermines what i am trying to achieve but does not put up useful arguments.

My points may be to do with health adn fitness but its not health and fitness that directs me to including htem in my list of fundaments. They are in my list because they are necessary for successful long term weightloss. Without them, possibly with any one of them, a person will fail.

I'm a case in point. Whenever i have dieted in the past I was always successful at reaching my goal. I did it with good diet and plenty of exercise. But what i did not take on board were two things as described above: exercise and mental health. Not applying what i have learned about the place of exercise, and mental health and their importance let me down. I was unprepared for the troubles that came up.

On the other hand, since i have prioritised mental health and left exericse for later, i have not had problems adn have been able to sustain my weightloss for longer than ever before.

Its probable that i need to elaborate more on these points in order for people to whom these concepts are new and who lack any idea how to address them quickly adn effectively but what i am doing in my post above is alerting people to the importance of these f actors and suggest they actively include strategy around these factors in their own plans.

re mental health, my strategy now is to get professional help before depression takes over from stress or disappointment. I have had numerous opportunities to practice this over the course of hte last 20 months or so becuase i have had numerous stress issues to deal with. Stress and depression issues have ruined my successes in the past.

With regards to exercise, injury and life changing events which meant i stopped exercise also ruined my successes in the past. So this time, I have learnt how to lose weight without exericse. now i can exercise or not according to how i feel about it and still not regain the weight i have lost.

I think i should actually write a book but as i am not a health professional, no one is likely to take me seriously unless i can get endorsements from some.

OsricTheKnight

Patttience wrote: »

...
My points may be to do with health adn fitness but its not health and fitness that directs me to including htem in my list of fundaments. They are in my list because they are necessary for successful long term weightloss. Without them, possibly with any one of them, a person will fail.
...
I think i should actually write a book but as i am not a health professional, no one is likely to take me seriously unless i can get endorsements from some.

You are making some big claims that are not substantiated. If you want to claim that your fundamentals are necessary for everyone, you should back that up with suitable research. If you want to claim that your way might work for some people, that's different and possibly true. As written several of your principles have an established body of evidence that would claim they are false, so it really seems heavy handed to write "they are on my list because they are necessary for long term weightloss".

As for writing a book, feel free. Some people might benefit, you might make some money, and it might be a good experience. My favourite weight loss book is "The Hacker's Diet", written as a free e-book by a computer programmer named John Walker, and the fact that he's not qualified to talk about the subject does not detract at all from his approach, which is tailor-made for the analytically minded person approaching weightloss.

And, for those analytically minded people, it absolutely is as simple as CICO and a willingness to keep paying attention to the data. Weightloss is in fact absolutely trivial if you pay attention to the data and react to it. Do I think all personalities can do it that way? No, not necessarily. But then, unlike you, I am not trying to say that I have a set of principles that absolutely are required and work for everyone.

Osric

Patttience

Which ones are false? Who says so? I can't combat your argument if you don't present one.

So what you are asking me to show is who else has established these claims. In various places i have mentioned them. Some i think on this very thread eg in those videos i mention above.

RAther go over the CICO arguement again, please tell which ones are in doubt. I have already mentioned that set point is a contentious one but that's the only one.

Which other points i've given have claims made aginsst them for long term weightloss. I've never heard anyone say it except for the history of fat which has been well debunked by Taubes in his book.

But with regard to set point my scientific expert who explained perfectly to me is Dr Amanda Sainsbury Salis. She was a research scientist working on hormones.

With regard to exercise, another source of my support information is Dr GEorge Blair West who wrote a very good book and in it he claims to have gone through all the recent science on the matter . He is himself a psychiatrist. His book is very good and i am confident he's not lying or misrepresenting his information.

I am also confident that Dr Sainsbury Salis is also truthful. Her explanation for lay people is so thorough and clear its very difficult to ignore it. Especially when you see it played out pretty much as she describes in my own experience.

As for vegetables, jsut about every diet book ever written has advocated eating your vegetables. Even Dr Atkins advocates eating your vegies.

So rather than just attack me, put up a contradictory arguement against the principels you disagree with. Show me that there are people who have weight issues who have been able to lose it and keep it off long term without these factors coming into play. For every suc or were ignorant of these ideas. Of course i cannot find the studies showing that because tehy don't exist but you only have to read through these boards nad hang around on forums for some time to see all the evidence of failure. We are surrounded by it.

SezxyStef

Not everyone has to deal with mental health issues...

Not everyone eats veggies and maintains weight loss.

losing weight and maintaining weight are two different things...

Have you read any research from the weight loss registry?

http://www.nwcr.ws/research/ these people are all those who lost...and maintained for a long time...

and not my post agrees with you except for losing weight is as simple as CICO the rest are for health and/or fitness...wow

I have been here since June 2013...lost my weight and have maintained since...trying a new goal weight (5lbs lower than my maintenance) and my fundamentals are as follows:

1. Log accurately and consistently
2. maintain my macros for health - get in enough protein to help maintain my muscle mass esp since I lift heavy.
3. maintain my exercise for fitness

Simple easy direct.

And to be very frank you don't need any of them except CICO to lose weight...let me reference the twinkie diet or the high school teacher who ate at McDonalds as an experiment for his students and lost weight.

To lose weight it is CICO and as long as you stay in a deficit you lose weight.

Maintenance is about CICO and as long as you stay in check you won't gain or lose.
...
You are missing the points I have made 2x due to your defensivness and you are missing the FACT that I agreed all your points were important for maintenance and health and fitness..smh

so I am off and won't be back to say it 3x because apparently unless I just say "nice post" you think I am disagreeing...

Patttience

Your fundamentals are only personal choices. People do not have to log calories at all to lose weight and keep it off for ever.
Ditto for counting macros.
Exercise has worked for you. That's great. It doesn't for more people than not.

If you suggested to a group that they try this, most would fail. So these are not fundamentals. They are just your personal program.

For what its worth, i have not even described my personal program.

By stef.

Now to deal with your objections.
"Not everyone has to deal with mental health issues…"

I have not said everyone has mental health issues. I said that you have to deal with stress and depression when you have them. Ignore resolving these thigns at your peril. Because when they do occure stress and depression cause people to overeat in a great many situations and they can derail your intentions and plans. Once off the wagon, it can be quite hard to get back on for most people.

"Not everyone eats veggies and maintains weight loss."

There is probably no evidnece around this but it seems extremely improbable to me that a person who is prone to being overweight through poor eating, could successfully lose weight and keep it off for a long time whilst continueing to eat a similar diet to the one that got them fat in the first place. Or that such a person could do this whilst not eating vegetables becuase lack of vegetables will knock a persons body systems around since they could well end up somewhat malnourished. On the other hand if a person just takes vitamin pills instead of eating vegies, this may help them stay afloat a bit longer. But i simply cannot grasp how someone can not eat vegetables yet lose weight and keep it off longterm. Can you show me anyone who has done this? have you seen diaries like this? And when i say long term, well a few years at least.

"losing weight and maintaining weight are two different things…"

You don't say? And so what? The only difference between maintaining weight and losing weight that I can see is that one is a deliberate choice to create a calorie deficit. The other does not. Every thing else can be pretty much the same. If you are not focused in maintenace on maintaining, even though it does tend to become more habit after a long time of doing it, more second nature, if you revert to old habits you are likely to end up back where you started, as most dieters tend to do.

Have you read any research from the weight loss registry?

I might have but not recently. From what i remember, the weight loss registry only talks about the people who have been successful it does not talk about the failures. I am talking about how to avoid failure. So for arguments sake, lets say that all the people on the WLR say they have achieved what they done by exerciseing a lot. This does not mean that exercising is the key to long term successful weightloss because what that statistic does not tell you about is all the people who exercised and still failed. They only tell you about the people who exercise and succeeded. The register is useless for telling you how to lose weight.

http://www.nwcr.ws/research/ these people are all those who lost...and maintained for a long time...

memickee

SezxyStef wrote: »

Not everyone has to deal with mental health issues...

Not everyone eats veggies and maintains weight loss.

losing weight and maintaining weight are two different things...

Have you read any research from the weight loss registry?

http://www.nwcr.ws/research/ these people are all those who lost...and maintained for a long time...

and not my post agrees with you except for losing weight is as simple as CICO the rest are for health and/or fitness...wow

I have been here since June 2013...lost my weight and have maintained since...trying a new goal weight (5lbs lower than my maintenance) and my fundamentals are as follows:

1. Log accurately and consistently
2. maintain my macros for health - get in enough protein to help maintain my muscle mass esp since I lift heavy.
3. maintain my exercise for fitness

Simple easy direct.

And to be very frank you don't need any of them except CICO to lose weight...let me reference the twinkie diet or the high school teacher who ate at McDonalds as an experiment for his students and lost weight.

To lose weight it is CICO and as long as you stay in a deficit you lose weight.

Maintenance is about CICO and as long as you stay in check you won't gain or lose.
...
You are missing the points I have made 2x due to your defensivness and you are missing the FACT that I agreed all your points were important for maintenance and health and fitness..smh

so I am off and won't be back to say it 3x because apparently unless I just say "nice post" you think I am disagreeing...

+1

3bambi3

So OP read a bunch of diet books and condensed the information, claiming that her rules are essential for long-term success for everyone, everywhere? Is that what's going on here? Sounds legit.

OP, how do you explain the long term success of people who don't follow your rules? Or are you somehow convinced that they will eventually fail?

Also, from your profile, it looks like you've only been doing this for a year. How is that a demonstration of long term success?

And finally, why should we view you as any sort of authority figure on this subject?

SideSteel

The weight loss registry allows you to key in to common characteristics of people who were successful at maintaining weight loss. If exercise is a common characteristic then you might be able to conclude that it is helpful in that regard.

I actually agree with a good chunk of your post. Totally disagree with your stance on exercise. Yes a calorie deficit is going to primarily drive changes in weight but activity is a part of that equation.

You also have to consider that the common rebuttals against exercise conclude (falsely, ie Taubes) that exercise increases appetite and causes people to eat more and additionally uses the "free living conditions" argument. Since we are dealing with a population of people (here on MFP) who track caloric intake, exercise can indeed become a method of enhancing the calorie deficit. Exercise and it's effect on appetite is likely variable from person to person and probably depends on exercise modality too. I can tell you from a coaching perspective that I regularly and successfully use exercise volume as a variable to increase energy demands which allows people to eat more food (compared to cutting calories further to create the deficit) which allows improved diet adherence. And whether or not you lean on additional exercise to further create the deficit is going to come down to individual factors.


See below for starters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19175510
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848645/

oh_happy_day

3bambi3 wrote: »

So OP read a bunch of diet books and condensed the information, claiming that her rules are essential for long-term success for everyone, everywhere? Is that what's going on here? Sounds legit.

OP, how do you explain the long term success of people who don't follow your rules? Or are you somehow convinced that they will eventually fail?

Also, from your profile, it looks like you've only been doing this for a year. How is that a demonstration of long term success?

And finally, why should we view you as any sort of authority figure on this subject?

Yes, exactly. But she's guaranteeing it!
Also apparently most people are not suited to regular long term exercise? Especially people who have ever been overweight? I'd love to see some empirical literature on that. And I mean something in a peer-reviewed journal. Any idiot can get a book published.

Patttience wrote: »

These are the fundamentals that affect EVERYONE's ability to succeed in the long term with weightloss. You can't expect to get your own personal recipe right from your first attempt but if you understand the fundamentals, and try to work them into your personal approach, you will find it easier and you will be more successful. I guarantee it. That said, there will be people here who are suited to doing a lot of exercise for the long term. But this is not most people. Look at athletes. Many get fat when they stop competing. My sister is one person I know who seems suited to lots of exercise but she has never been overweight a day in her life. The people who seem most suited to lots of exercise in the long-term are people like my sister who've never been overweight.

Feel free to debate any of these ideas with me or ask questions.

I'm not sure this is a complete list but it does take care of the main things we all can benefit from understanding.

oh_happy_day

Patttience wrote: »

With regard to exercise, another source of my support information is Dr GEorge Blair West who wrote a very good book and in it he claims to have gone through all the recent science on the matter . He is himself a psychiatrist. His book is very good and i am confident he's not lying or misrepresenting his information.

I am also confident that Dr Sainsbury Salis is also truthful. Her explanation for lay people is so thorough and clear its very difficult to ignore it. Especially when you see it played out pretty much as she describes in my own experience.

I find it interesting that you place so much faith in just one or two people. And describe it as being sure that they're not lying' or 'misrepresenting'. Doctors and scientists present theories, theories which can be disproved at a later time. Studies can be flawed. Theories can be flawed. A psychiatrist in the 1940s said that a lack of maternal warmth causes schizophrenia and autism, it was disseminated as a valid theory for a number of decades. Is it true? No, we know now that it's not. But it was presented as scientifically valid for decades. It's also easy to manipulate data to fit your hypothesis and don't even get me started on confirmation bias.

farfromthetree

Great post but your inability to respond appropriately to what others have to say is just off-putting. You would have more success if you welcomed the debate as you said you would in your OP.
@SezxyStef --great responses. Thanks for posting

Soopatt

I agree with @farfromthetree

I enjoyed the initial post but the knee-jerk defensiveness and ranty rebuttals from the OP after that were a bucket of cold water on my enthusiasm. I would be too scared to ask questions in case I got in the line of fire.

auddii

SideSteel wrote: »

The weight loss registry allows you to key in to common characteristics of people who were successful at maintaining weight loss. If exercise is a common characteristic then you might be able to conclude that it is helpful in that regard.

I actually agree with a good chunk of your post. Totally disagree with your stance on exercise. Yes a calorie deficit is going to primarily drive changes in weight but activity is a part of that equation.

You also have to consider that the common rebuttals against exercise conclude (falsely, ie Taubes) that exercise increases appetite and causes people to eat more and additionally uses the "free living conditions" argument. Since we are dealing with a population of people (here on MFP) who track caloric intake, exercise can indeed become a method of enhancing the calorie deficit. Exercise and it's effect on appetite is likely variable from person to person and probably depends on exercise modality too. I can tell you from a coaching perspective that I regularly and successfully use exercise volume as a variable to increase energy demands which allows people to eat more food (compared to cutting calories further to create the deficit) which allows improved diet adherence. And whether or not you lean on additional exercise to further create the deficit is going to come down to individual factors.


See below for starters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19175510
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848645/

Ageed.

And while I haven't made it to maintenence yet, I see numerous posts of people who reach their goal weight and lose focus and struggle. It seems that some people can do better when they can strive towards a goal.

Exercise and fitness can provide alternative goals beyond just weight.

Sabine_Stroehm

Glad you found what works for you.

Annie_01

Patttience wrote: »

These are the fundamentals that affect EVERYONE's ability to succeed in the long term with weightloss.

I read your initial post with interest until...

The above statement...the word "EVERYONE" gave me second thoughts about your entire post.

While there might be some...maybe even many...that will benefit from your fundamentals I believe that to make the claim that "EVERYONE's" ability to succeed in the long term is inaccurate.

I am always skeptical when an author uses the term "EVERYONE".

SideSteel

Annie_01 wrote: »

Patttience wrote: »

These are the fundamentals that affect EVERYONE's ability to succeed in the long term with weightloss.

I read your initial post with interest until...

The above statement...the word "EVERYONE" gave me second thoughts about your entire post.

While there might be some...maybe even many...that will benefit from your fundamentals I believe that to make the claim that "EVERYONE's" ability to succeed in the long term is inaccurate.

I am always skeptical when an author uses the term "EVERYONE".

Agreed

Machka9

If what you listed there works for you ... great.

These are the fundamentals of successful weight loss for me.

1. I eat fewer calories than I burn.
2. I eat foods I like.
3. I exercise daily.

Machka9

auddii wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

The weight loss registry allows you to key in to common characteristics of people who were successful at maintaining weight loss. If exercise is a common characteristic then you might be able to conclude that it is helpful in that regard.

I actually agree with a good chunk of your post. Totally disagree with your stance on exercise. Yes a calorie deficit is going to primarily drive changes in weight but activity is a part of that equation.

You also have to consider that the common rebuttals against exercise conclude (falsely, ie Taubes) that exercise increases appetite and causes people to eat more and additionally uses the "free living conditions" argument. Since we are dealing with a population of people (here on MFP) who track caloric intake, exercise can indeed become a method of enhancing the calorie deficit. Exercise and it's effect on appetite is likely variable from person to person and probably depends on exercise modality too. I can tell you from a coaching perspective that I regularly and successfully use exercise volume as a variable to increase energy demands which allows people to eat more food (compared to cutting calories further to create the deficit) which allows improved diet adherence. And whether or not you lean on additional exercise to further create the deficit is going to come down to individual factors.


See below for starters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19175510
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848645/

Ageed.

And while I haven't made it to maintenence yet, I see numerous posts of people who reach their goal weight and lose focus and struggle. It seems that some people can do better when they can strive towards a goal.

Exercise and fitness can provide alternative goals beyond just weight.

Yes, absolutely ... that has been my experience as well. So much easier to keep the weight off when I'm busy doing something active (especially training for and participating in events) much of the time, and not overly focused on my diet.

And as SideSteel mentions, through my recent weight loss, exercise was a key factor in allowing me the freedom to eat a wider variety of food and yet still lose weight.

Therealobi1

Machka9 wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

The weight loss registry allows you to key in to common characteristics of people who were successful at maintaining weight loss. If exercise is a common characteristic then you might be able to conclude that it is helpful in that regard.

I actually agree with a good chunk of your post. Totally disagree with your stance on exercise. Yes a calorie deficit is going to primarily drive changes in weight but activity is a part of that equation.

You also have to consider that the common rebuttals against exercise conclude (falsely, ie Taubes) that exercise increases appetite and causes people to eat more and additionally uses the "free living conditions" argument. Since we are dealing with a population of people (here on MFP) who track caloric intake, exercise can indeed become a method of enhancing the calorie deficit. Exercise and it's effect on appetite is likely variable from person to person and probably depends on exercise modality too. I can tell you from a coaching perspective that I regularly and successfully use exercise volume as a variable to increase energy demands which allows people to eat more food (compared to cutting calories further to create the deficit) which allows improved diet adherence. And whether or not you lean on additional exercise to further create the deficit is going to come down to individual factors.


See below for starters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19175510
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848645/

Ageed.

And while I haven't made it to maintenence yet, I see numerous posts of people who reach their goal weight and lose focus and struggle. It seems that some people can do better when they can strive towards a goal.

Exercise and fitness can provide alternative goals beyond just weight.

Yes, absolutely ... that has been my experience as well. So much easier to keep the weight off when I'm busy doing something active (especially training for and participating in events) much of the time, and not overly focused on my diet.

And as SideSteel mentions, through my recent weight loss, exercise was a key factor in allowing me the freedom to eat a wider variety of food and yet still lose weight.

This is the same for me.
Also exercise for me was part of the package of me trying to correct my ways. Ate too much and moved not often.

Patttience

3bambi3 wrote: »

So OP read a bunch of diet books and condensed the information, claiming that her rules are essential for long-term success for everyone, everywhere? Is that what's going on here? Sounds legit.

OP, how do you explain the long term success of people who don't follow your rules? Or are you somehow convinced that they will eventually fail?

Also, from your profile, it looks like you've only been doing this for a year. How is that a demonstration of long term success?

And finally, why should we view you as any sort of authority figure on this subject?

OP has not just read a bunch of books and condensed the information. A lot of the information i read confirmed what i had already noticed for myself particularly these three things - exercise can impeded long term successful wieghtloss, failing to address my stress and depression quickly would make me fall off the wagon, quitting sugar (which i haven't even included in my fundamentals) was a strategy i discovered for myself long before having heard anything of the kind from any other source. It took three attempts to make it stick becuase i had some other factors to resolve first, namely the two above. so it is comobinationof personal experience, reading,and some tv shows by experts. Some of the ideas have been new to me since i started - stuff about metabolism, ideal body weight, hormones. But i have been working on personal growth for a long time so when i read about hormones that clicked pretty easily with what i have learnt through my personal experience and years of acquired insights nad knowledge about mental health.

re 1. So there are people who have long term success who follow different rules. Mine are not rules so much as fundamentals. I wonder which "rules" they follow which are differnt. But for argument's sake, the main factor i know of that would be different is the exercise becuase we know a lot of people who have kept the weight off long term with exericse. I am pretty sure these people as soon as they stop exercising will regain - it tends to be what happens to athletes. They do not know how to keep the weight off without exercise so they are forced to do significant amounts of exercise daily and live in fear of taking some relaxation off from exericse. I have heard them talk about this quite a lot in articles and so on, and know people who live like that. While i have stopped and started exercise and can keep control of my weight whether i exercise or not. At my current weight it is good to do some exercise becuase if i don't I can't eat very much becuase my lifestyle isn't very active. But i mainly do it becuase i want to be fit and healthy. I did not do it through my losing weight period. And since reaching goal, i have stopped and started numerous times. Let's face its not easy to do more than an hour of exercise almost every day for months and years on end. It is incomprehensible to me that if eveyrone had to do this to maintain low weight, the vast majority would fail and i think its one of hte main reasons why do alway see so much failure with weightloss. People set themselves up to fail by making it too difficult. That's where the notion of severely cutting calories ties in. I shouldn't have to spell it out. MOst people cna do it for a short amount of time but the longer you are required to do it, the harder it becomes.

I can't comment on the other possibilities because I do'nt believe they occur. For instance i don't believe these long terms successes are people who live with constant threat of stress eating or depression eating and the vast majority of overweight people who come to tehse boards seem to have problems with stress and depression. These are the people who have a very bad record with weightloss. As i said, i doubt any of the successes eat insufficient vegetables. I can't believe any of them live on restaurant food rather home cooked meals.

re 2. Your point is a good one. I've thought about it myself. The thing is i was 50 when i started this last period of weight loss and maintenance so i have a lot more years of experience than you or most of the other objects that im aware of. And I have noticed an incredible difference in everything about the way i go about from previous experiences. The thing is the way i'm doing it is easy. Its very easy to live the way i'm living and not get fat. If you have to do a ton of exercise to avoid getting fat and have to be so careful about what you eat becuase most of what you eat is high calorie, then its bloody hard work. So its logical that if weight loss and maintenance is easier you will be more successful at it. If you resolve yoru stress and private struggles quickly, you feel good and everything is easier to do. Also your appetite is not under pressure from rampant hormone problems.

I would also like to point out that since I posted this thread, and been writing similar things in posts on this forum, i have receieved many requests for friend support becuase what i write accords with their experience. And they find what i say new and insightful. I suspect that the people who object most loudly to what i'm saying are the people who are not doing what i'm recommending. ie the ones who exercise a lot who have never been terribly overweight for long periods, who don't have years of failed attempts behind them and so on. So although you might benefit from trying to take on board what i'm saying, you think you are doing pretty well as you are. Good carry on doing what you are but i believe you would find it easier and would have more success if you did what i suggest instead.

3. As regards viewing me as an authority figues you don't have to at all .I had hoped that people would understand sense when they read or look further into it if they want to know more or maybe ask questions of me if they are unclear of what i'm saying and need to know more in order to be convinced. Instead most of the people who resond (and i haven't read all yet) are just doing the knee jerk reaction thing.

So have tried to deal comprehensivly with your points and now i'm exhausted so i might not be able to respond to eveyrone else right now.

Patttience

Well i am sorry that my attempt to address the critic at the top of the thread put people off.

It would be a shame if people decided to not take on board what i wrote in my first post because of how they didn't like the way i responded to one poster. I jsut reread my first response and couldn't even find anything that you could object to but she wrote back and again becuase her post persists in failing to show comprehension of my initial post, i got frustrated.

So human failing again. We don't have to like people to accept that they are right or make good points. I'm not asking you to like me.

I have proposed a bunch of things that are not commonly known, either in solo or as a package and which will make long term weightloss successful and much easier. If people aren't interested in ideas that will give them more success or to help them make it easier, that's sad for them.

SideSteel

Patttience wrote: »

I have proposed a bunch of things that are not commonly known, either in solo or as a package and which will make long term weightloss successful and much easier. If people aren't interested in ideas that will give them more success or to help them make it easier, that's sad for them.

People are disagreeing with some of your points. They are not disinterested in ideas that will give them more success. You seem to be equating those two things.

oh_happy_day

Patttience wrote: »

Well i am sorry that my attempt to address the critic at the top of the thread put people off.

It would be a shame if people decided to not take on board what i wrote in my first post because of how they didn't like the way i responded to one poster. I jsut reread my first response and couldn't even find anything that you could object to but she wrote back and again becuase her post persists in failing to show comprehension of my initial post, i got frustrated.

So human failing again. We don't have to like people to accept that they are right or make good points. I'm not asking you to like me.

I have proposed a bunch of things that are not commonly known, either in solo or as a package and which will make long term weightloss successful and much easier. If people aren't interested in ideas that will give them more success or to help them make it easier, that's sad for them.

I think your heart is in the right place but your delivery could use some work and your responses to people lack insight. You also seem to confuse beliefs with facts, and seem to assume that other people's experiences should align with your own. You repeatedly say things like you just "don't believe" that other possibilities occur. Belief isn't evidence. You are extrapolating what worked for you as fundamentals that will work for everyone and make everyone's weight loss easier and more successful. You literally said that. You also said that people who don't agree with you don't comprehend you. That the people who object to what you're saying as the ones not doing what you're recommending. Can you see that that comes across as rather arrogant?

Unknown

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