What happens if you lift weights without progressive overload?

natacos

Everything I've read about weight lifting suggests you need progressive overload for it to be effective. But I've never read what actually happens if you weight lift but remain stagnant at a certain level of weight/reps.

For the record, I do try to increase weights when possible but there are some moves where I'm just stalling / it's hard to even get higher weights in position even if I intend to decrease reps, and my gym is more of a 'health club' where it doesn't actually even have a squat rack, so for squats, etc, I'm limited to what I can hoist up from the floor to my shoulders (unless I want to use the Smith machine... which I don't). Plus I've been following programs (NROLFW, Strong Curves, now NROL Supercharged) where they mix up what you're actually doing every month or so anyway so it's not like I'm just spinning my wheels doing the same old thing constantly.

Sometimes I think I should look into other gyms to rectify the no-rack issue, but on the other hand - I'm also pretty happy with my body composition and strength level as it is, so if I were just to keep on trucking as I am without progressive overload - what actually happens? Do I start to lose muscle, or just stop building new muscle/stop increasing strength?

Is progressive overload needed for even retaining current muscle level or just building new muscle/increasing strength? I mean, lifting weights at the same level is still using the muscles, right, so they shouldn't start wasting away or anything?

msf74

You'll simply retain what you currently have.

Many people seem to forget that to create an adaptation takes a fair amount of effort. To maintain it however doesn't take nearly as much. I have been able to retain reasonable strength levels on the back of one sensible lifting session per week (two if I have the time but that it not a given).

hamlet1222

Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit. Everyone has a limit to what they'll ever be able to lift, you might be at that limit, or at a lower plateaux, if the latter then you can try adjusting your workout/rest/diet, but if nothing works you're probably at your peak - so be happy

ExRelaySprinter

Very interesting question!
[Bookmarking to see more responses].

TheopolisAmbroiseIII

You can't build up the endurance to run a marathon by running 5 miles a day, you have to train for a marathon by building up to marathon distances. Same thing with lifting. If you squat 200lbs for 5 sets of 5 reps every day, you'll get really good at that, however once you become adapted to it, you won't be gaining any more muscle or strength, you'll just retain that level of ability indefinitely.

Someone, like a farmer, who does approximately the same workload day to day, year to year, while doing their job, will get strong, but once they adapt to their daily routine and are able to do it, they don't continue to get more and more bulky all their life, nor do they lose strength just because they're not continually lifting more and heavier feed bags and hay bales.

natacos

Thanks for responses so far! This is reassuring to know that I won't be losing any muscle. It's probably common sense but I've literally only ever seen this discussed in terms of progressive overload as a necessity. But I guess it's a necessity for everyone who wants to build muscle/increase strength, and that is a usual goal (because we all want to better ourselves). And for the record, I will continue to try to increase weights or reps if ever what I'm doing becomes "easy", but it's good to know I won't be losing out on anything if I keep at where I am.

stevencloser

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit. Everyone has a limit to what they'll ever be able to lift, you might be at that limit, or at a lower plateaux, if the latter then you can try adjusting your workout/rest/diet, but if nothing works you're probably at your peak - so be happy

Most people never even come close to their natural limit so that's rather unlikely.

dstromley90

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit. Everyone has a limit to what they'll ever be able to lift, you might be at that limit, or at a lower plateaux, if the latter then you can try adjusting your workout/rest/diet, but if nothing works you're probably at your peak - so be happy

terrible advice.
You have to force yourbody to change. Progressive overload is one wAy oryou could add more volume shorten rest periods ect anything to make it harder.

sinbadfxdl

dstromley90 wrote: »

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit. Everyone has a limit to what they'll ever be able to lift, you might be at that limit, or at a lower plateaux, if the latter then you can try adjusting your workout/rest/diet, but if nothing works you're probably at your peak - so be happy

terrible advice.
You have to force yourbody to change. Progressive overload is one wAy oryou could add more volume shorten rest periods ect anything to make it harder.

That works for me. Couldn't do a pushup 2 yrs ago. I'm up to 60 daily. Almot to the point of 50 in one set.

rybo

There's actually 2 questions here.
1 is about doing the same weight, which has roughly been answered, I'll just add that it seems awfully pointless and a huge waste of time to not try to progress.

The other is that you sound like you can't keep progressing, even if you wanted? Which can be for a whole host of reasons.

natacos

rybo wrote: »

There's actually 2 questions here.
1 is about doing the same weight, which has roughly been answered, I'll just add that it seems awfully pointless and a huge waste of time to not try to progress.

The other is that you sound like you can't keep progressing, even if you wanted? Which can be for a whole host of reasons.

To address the second point first - well, yes. There are some moves I've just stalled on anyway, and I recognize that that is for various reasons. But part of my reasoning for posting was - do I actually need to be concerned about the fact that I've stalled? It may seem "pointless and a huge waste of time" to you (and probably many others) but as I said - if I'm happy with my body as it is now, is it really a waste of time? I'm maintaining the muscle/strength I currently have rather than losing it from lack of use. I'm not "bettering" myself but I'm keeping myself at a level of fitness and health that I am happy with.

ninerbuff

Basically you stay the same. No loss in strength, no gain in strength. Lots of people who are happy with their physical look do the same workouts all the time. And they look the same.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

hamlet1222

You may be at a point of diminishing returns, where it'll take a lot more effort to be able to add a few more grams of weight. What are the smallest weight increments you have available?

"Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit." How is that terrible advice? If people could keep adding 1 kilo discs to their barbell without limit, we'd have people benching metric tonnes after a few years of training.

aspdenbrae

There are many exercises forthe legs, try goblet squats or Bulgarian split squats

for_ever_young66

If you're in a maintenance mode, not looking to gain anymore muscle, it's perfect.

Sam_I_Am77

natacos wrote: »

Everything I've read about weight lifting suggests you need progressive overload for it to be effective. But I've never read what actually happens if you weight lift but remain stagnant at a certain level of weight/reps.

For the record, I do try to increase weights when possible but there are some moves where I'm just stalling / it's hard to even get higher weights in position even if I intend to decrease reps, and my gym is more of a 'health club' where it doesn't actually even have a squat rack, so for squats, etc, I'm limited to what I can hoist up from the floor to my shoulders (unless I want to use the Smith machine... which I don't). Plus I've been following programs (NROLFW, Strong Curves, now NROL Supercharged) where they mix up what you're actually doing every month or so anyway so it's not like I'm just spinning my wheels doing the same old thing constantly.

Sometimes I think I should look into other gyms to rectify the no-rack issue, but on the other hand - I'm also pretty happy with my body composition and strength level as it is, so if I were just to keep on trucking as I am without progressive overload - what actually happens? Do I start to lose muscle, or just stop building new muscle/stop increasing strength?

Is progressive overload needed for even retaining current muscle level or just building new muscle/increasing strength? I mean, lifting weights at the same level is still using the muscles, right, so they shouldn't start wasting away or anything?

Yeah basically you'll likely just stay about where you're at as your body adapts and just becomes proficient and managing the same stimulus over and over again. If you're happy then that's fine, keep doing it. The only potential problem I see is that it does become more of a routine then exercise and you might get bored and just stop altogether. It's kind of like married sex that gets boring because it becomes the same boring routine and nothing new to spark interest in each other.

Ladsel

I do know where the OP is coming from.
I lift weights at home and don't have room for a squat rack - so i can only lift a limited amount of weight. (I don't live close by a Gym either).
But it's good to know i can still lift (with limited weight) and retain the muscle i have.
It would be nice to get stronger though, so are there any altenatives? Continue with Deadlifts & Bodyweight exercises i guess(?)

LolBroScience

hamlet1222 wrote: »

You may be at a point of diminishing returns, where it'll take a lot more effort to be able to add a few more grams of weight. What are the smallest weight increments you have available?

"Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit." How is that terrible advice? If people could keep adding 1 kilo discs to their barbell without limit, we'd have people benching metric tonnes after a few years of training.

That's simply a plateau where you'll need to manipulate more variables around. You speaking in regards to linear progression, which yes, will stall out eventually. At that point, you'll need to look into a more periodized approach.

That is not what natural limit is.

hamlet1222

Good point, 'linear progression' was the phrase I was missing. I wonder, once you've got all your newbie gains, and hit your first plateau, how much more weight could you expect to be able to achieve? Could you still expect to eventually double your bench press weight for example? or just increase it by 20%? What would be a good target for someone in this position?

LolBroScience

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Good point, 'linear progression' was the phrase I was missing. I wonder, once you've got all your newbie gains, and hit your first plateau, how much more weight could you expect to be able to achieve? Could you still expect to eventually double your bench press weight for example? or just increase it by 20%? What would be a good target for someone in this position?

It will vary from person to person... genetic potential, leverages (some people built to be better deadlifters vs. benchers), how much work is being put in, surplus vs deficit... lots of factors. Obviously the more LBM you carry, the greater potential for maximizing strength though, generally speaking.

JoRocka

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Progressive overload only applies up to your natural limit. Everyone has a limit to what they'll ever be able to lift, you might be at that limit, or at a lower plateaux, if the latter then you can try adjusting your workout/rest/diet, but if nothing works you're probably at your peak - so be happy

while you are not INCORRECT- that thresh hold limit is much higher than anyone here on this site has reached.

Good point, 'linear progression' was the phrase I was missing. I wonder, once you've got all your newbie gains, and hit your first plateau, how much more weight could you expect to be able to achieve? Could you still expect to eventually double your bench press weight for example? or just increase it by 20%? What would be a good target for someone in this position?

quiet a bit more.
I hit my natural threshold on a squat comfortably around 185- with a good program I've hit 245 well and 250 about 2" shy of full depth.

I also know these numbers are completely low for a natural raw competitor. There is no reason at my height and weight I should not be squatting close to 300 or over and pulling close to 400 on deads.

The thing with weight lifting is there is always 5 more pounds to put on the bar. ALWAYS. This is why intermiediate and advanced periodization programs exist. It becomes a grind and you really have to put the time in- but it can be done.

As someone said- most people never come close to that threshhold- assume your most people and continue to fight for more. It's probably there for the taking.

armylife

LolBroScience wrote: »

hamlet1222 wrote: »

Good point, 'linear progression' was the phrase I was missing. I wonder, once you've got all your newbie gains, and hit your first plateau, how much more weight could you expect to be able to achieve? Could you still expect to eventually double your bench press weight for example? or just increase it by 20%? What would be a good target for someone in this position?

It will vary from person to person... genetic potential, leverages (some people built to be better deadlifters vs. benchers), how much work is being put in, surplus vs deficit... lots of factors. Obviously the more LBM you vary, the greater potential for maximizing strength though, generally speaking.

This is right. The problem that many have with linear progression is they start too heavy or don't understand the difference between a plateau and "the limit". As you approach a more advanced lifting state you will reach more "stall points" and plateaus resetting intelligently and work back up, examining diet, and ensuring adequate recovery all all necessary to continue progressing. Eventually you will reach a point of diminished returns and will need to switch to a more advanced program with more specialization to continue gaining. But, if strength is your number one goal then any return is a positive, even if not the most efficient way to add it. You have to remember too, even though your percent of strength gain, in pounds, may go down, the weight you are adding is still considerable on a progressive workout.

BradCzumo

There are a few different comments here that are not wrong but not necessarily correct either. YES you need to increase weight and force your body to get used to pushing more, hence why people use spotters... To increase weight safely. BUT this is counter intuitive because the only way you can increase weight is by being consistent across your whole body. People speak about plateaus' well plateaus only happen when one part of your body is holding the rest back. If you Plateau on Benchpress. The majority of the time your shoulders are behind. If you overtrain chest in the same go, your back will become weaker. This is because you can think of the body as an elastic band. If you pull too far on one side, the other will be weaker. Each muscle has an equal and opposite. So the progressive increase is necessary, but if you know what youre doing. Dont focus too much on one muscle group because you will hinder others. If you are finding that youre doing chest day twice a week and shoulders now twice, but legs and back are falling behind.... eventually they will cause a plateau aswell.

I hope this rant made sense. Remember you need to train Stabilizer muscles! This includes Rotator cuffs, or rear delts(not a stabilizer but people forget to train). and remember to do opposite muscle groups. if you do ABS, work your lower back the next day.

scottver2

The reason progressive overload is applied is to force muscle adaptation, as mentioned above. You can lift the same weight, same rep range forever, but what would be the purpose of lifting? As in any strength/resistance training regime, what your desired goal is directly affects how you approach that goal.

And, to correct JoRocka, I'm sure quite a few people on this site have reached genetic potential. I use this site to keep track of my macros, because it's convenient, but have been doing so AND lifting for years. There does come a point where you cannot put 5lbs more on the bar. My total 3 big lifts (squat, bench, dead) are well over 1000 lbs combined, and I can accurately say that on most exercises, I cannot put "5 more pounds" on the bar.

Sam_I_Am77

scottver2 wrote: »

The reason progressive overload is applied is to force muscle adaptation, as mentioned above. You can lift the same weight, same rep range forever, but what would be the purpose of lifting? As in any strength/resistance training regime, what your desired goal is directly affects how you approach that goal.

And, to correct JoRocka, I'm sure quite a few people on this site have reached genetic potential. I use this site to keep track of my macros, because it's convenient, but have been doing so AND lifting for years. There does come a point where you cannot put 5lbs more on the bar. My total 3 big lifts (squat, bench, dead) are well over 1000 lbs combined, and I can accurately say that on most exercises, I cannot put "5 more pounds" on the bar.

I would agree more with Jorocka then this statement. I find it very hard to believe that MOST people, perhaps some, have found their genetic potential. What is most likely the case is that they've hit a plateau with whatever cookie-cutter program they're following and do not have the education or experience to move past it. I've met many men and women that are incredibly and naturally strong for their size; the difference with them is they have the knowledge or are trained by very experienced and knowledgeable people, and that is what makes the difference. Most of what gets peddled on this site is SL5x5, StrongLifts, and those programs have limits. At some point one has to increase their knowledge somehow to move beyond where they are at. Just because somebody has been lifting for years doesn't mean they'll progress and it's not a sign of quality or knowledgeable training. Most people don't have the dedication to make that kind of progress.

JoRocka

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

scottver2 wrote: »

The reason progressive overload is applied is to force muscle adaptation, as mentioned above. You can lift the same weight, same rep range forever, but what would be the purpose of lifting? As in any strength/resistance training regime, what your desired goal is directly affects how you approach that goal.

And, to correct JoRocka, I'm sure quite a few people on this site have reached genetic potential. I use this site to keep track of my macros, because it's convenient, but have been doing so AND lifting for years. There does come a point where you cannot put 5lbs more on the bar. My total 3 big lifts (squat, bench, dead) are well over 1000 lbs combined, and I can accurately say that on most exercises, I cannot put "5 more pounds" on the bar.

I would agree more with Jorocka then this statement. I find it very hard to believe that MOST people, perhaps some, have found their genetic potential. What is most likely the case is that they've hit a plateau with whatever cookie-cutter program they're following and do not have the education or experience to move past it. I've met many men and women that are incredibly and naturally strong for their size; the difference with them is they have the knowledge or are trained by very experienced and knowledgeable people, and that is what makes the difference. Most of what gets peddled on this site is SL5x5, StrongLifts, and those programs have limits. At some point one has to increase their knowledge somehow to move beyond where they are at. Just because somebody has been lifting for years doesn't mean they'll progress and it's not a sign of quality or knowledgeable training. Most people don't have the dedication to make that kind of progress.

looking like a bobble head over here nodding away.
<nodsnodsnods>

last line is unfortunately true- but it is a grim reality.

LolBroScience

scottver2 wrote: »

The reason progressive overload is applied is to force muscle adaptation, as mentioned above. You can lift the same weight, same rep range forever, but what would be the purpose of lifting? As in any strength/resistance training regime, what your desired goal is directly affects how you approach that goal.

And, to correct JoRocka, I'm sure quite a few people on this site have reached genetic potential. I use this site to keep track of my macros, because it's convenient, but have been doing so AND lifting for years. There does come a point where you cannot put 5lbs more on the bar. My total 3 big lifts (squat, bench, dead) are well over 1000 lbs combined, and I can accurately say that on most exercises, I cannot put "5 more pounds" on the bar.

They are in the minority. This site is not really comprised heavily of competitive athletes or advanced lifters.

scottver2

I agree that a majority of people have not reached genetic potential, or come close. And, I agree that that most people don't spend ridiculous amounts of time researching diets, routines, training styles, somatotypes, etc...I was just saying that what I've seen posted in some of these forums has led me to believe that there are users in this community who are dedicated enough to reach their genetic limits. I was more concerned with the all-inclusive statement that said no one on this site has reached genetic potential...

Sam_I_Am77

RE Genetic Limits: How do you define genetic limits? I think limitations in progress on MFP is largely due to knowledge and experience. You mention what you've seen posted and if you think about; if you have the knowledge and experience, you're not asking questions on MFP about what you should do. There's a fair-base of beginner knowledge on this site but it's limited after that and when somebody does try and drop some good intermediate / advanced knowledge it usually turns into a *kitten*-storm and argued by the larger group with only the beginner knowledge because that is all they know and the bulk of what is supported / accepted here.

*What I just said wasn't meant to be *kitten* or start a heated arguement, just my thoughts based on the recurring questions that appear on MFP. I bet if you do a search on MFP for progress overload, there are many threads discussing it.

JoRocka

scottver2 wrote: »

I agree that a majority of people have not reached genetic potential, or come close. And, I agree that that most people don't spend ridiculous amounts of time researching diets, routines, training styles, somatotypes, etc...I was just saying that what I've seen posted in some of these forums has led me to believe that there are users in this community who are dedicated enough to reach their genetic limits. I was more concerned with the all-inclusive statement that said no one on this site has reached genetic potential...

there are people here dedicated enough reach their potential- I'm sure of it. And there are some extremely talented lifters here- most of whom would probably admit- they haven't reached their top cap.

I'm personally willing to bet those few who are dedicated enough- haven't yet- and I don't say that with malice- I have a great number of those lifters on my friends list.

christch

My question is as one of those beginners is where do you go after you 'outgrow' SL 5x5 or one of the other programmes. I'm a long way from being at that point but for some others out there what's the next step. Is it a matter of getting a trainer or finding the next big thing being touted by a body building site?