Need some running advice

bwogilvie

This article on bones and connective tissue from Runner's World explains why it is bad to do demanding speed work, or increase volume suddenly, without having a good base.

OP, I am with the group that suggests that you gradually increase the amount of running you do, with one of your weekly runs being relatively long. If you can stand Reddit, the "Running Order of Operations" document by Mike Kessler, linked from the sidebar of the /r/running subreddit, provides a useful overview of one way to improve your running.

Stoshew71

bwogilvie wrote: »

This article on bones and connective tissue from Runner's World explains why it is bad to do demanding speed work, or increase volume suddenly, without having a good base.

OP, I am with the group that suggests that you gradually increase the amount of running you do, with one of your weekly runs being relatively long. If you can stand Reddit, the "Running Order of Operations" document by Mike Kessler, linked from the sidebar of the /r/running subreddit, provides a useful overview of one way to improve your running.

This article supports what I said earlier:

Stoshew71 wrote: »

RobynLB83 wrote: »

gdyment wrote: »

litsy3 wrote: »

I know speed doesn't necessarily = knowledge (I can run faster than my coach), but I would be interested to know whether the people giving the good advice above (gradually build up slow mileage) can run faster, on average, than the people giving the terrible advice above (push yourself really hard and do loads of speedwork!!!). I bet they can. Luckily the OP seems very sensible!

I can't think of any "go hard, go fast" runner I've met who lasted more than 6 months. I'm on year 7 from the couch and within seconds of breaking 1:25 (maybe this spring) on the half. No injuries other than 1 calf pull on a mud-race couple years ago. But age sucks too. Your PR list is most impressive!

I don't think telling someone who wants to run faster to run faster is terrible advice. I've been running almost 20 years. I've only run 3 races in my life because I don't like races and I don't train for them; placed first in 2 of them, 4th in the 3rd. I can comfortably run about 16 miles, or I can maintain a 7 min mile for 3... I run as little as twice a week or as much as twice a day depending on what sport I'm most enamoured with any given week. No injuries. Running manuals shouldn't be read as gospel. Running is not that complicated. Just do it. Nike and such...

It can be if the person starts to hate running because they are putting all of this effort, getting out of breath rather quickly, having to mentally overcome a hard intensity, risking injury (because they think every time I have to run I have to give it my all) and not give enough rest time in between, and then not see themselves improve as quickly as they expect. it's like, "Hey I am busting my hump here and I only shaved 30 seconds off my 5K time?"

In the mean time, you have someone who most likely is enjoying their training time better, because the intensity is not as great, but they are able to spend more time to actually run (be it at a slower rate), and see much bigger improvements much faster.

hell, If me and a buddy did a 5K together and finished at similar times, then I worked real hard to beat him as you suggest. I follow your idea of busting it out as hard as I can every workout for 6 weeks. he follows the more miles but slower ruitine. I will guarentee you that the slower but futher guy will beat the first guy, and I would be so peed oh'd that i give up running. And that is if I can actually make it to the starting line, because i pulled a hamstring or got a bad case of achiles tendonites half way during my training.

_Waffle_

zdyb23456 wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

zdyb23456 wrote: »

I don't know. I don't have the time to run 30+ miles a week, but I want to improve my 5K and 8K run times. So what's your suggestion then? Doing the interval runs I was able to knock over a minute off my mile pace. I still only run about 20-25 miles a week.

If you are running 20-25 miles per week, then you have already built up a base. While it never hurts to continue to strengthen you base, considering your goals and time constraints, then yes, you can probably benefit from speed work. OP states that she is currently running 10 or so miles per week. Totally different situation.

However, if you are running 20-25 mpw, I am assuming ALL of that is not intervals, right?

No, I do a 30 min HIIT treadmill run 3 times a week (Mon, Wed., Fri) which is 3.4 miles each time. Tuesdays and Thursdays I just run a steady pace for 30 minutes (40 minutes if I have the time). Saturdays I try to do a longer, slower run outside weather and time permitting - usually 4 or 5 miles.

I'd like to improve my speed even further. I've been at this pace for awhile now. Do I need to add more mileage?

Since you're already doing some faster intervals each week then I would say yes. More miles per week would help. Again, no one is saying that speedwork is not important. It's just less of a factor than your aerobic capacity.


http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/speed-vs-aerobic-endurance-what-is-holding-you-back/

What role does speed play?

Certainly, speed is a component of a well balanced training plan and it’s important to include speed workouts to improve your running efficiency and V02max. If you completely neglect speed all together, or any energy system for that matter, your performance will suffer.

Perhaps the biggest role speed plays is that it helps improve your running economy and efficiency. In unscientific terms, speedwork helps you run goal race pace with less effort.

However, there is a limit to how much you can develop your absolute speed. At some point, your body approaches its natural talent point and working to improve speed provides diminishing returns. Luckily, improving your aerobic capacity is virtually limitless.

bwogilvie

Stoshew71 wrote: »

This article supports what I said earlier

Yep, exactly! I just thought I'd give the link for those who hadn't seen it.

MoiAussi93

FatMoojor wrote: »

Totally anecdotal evidence. I recently finished a 100k race, during my training I didn't do any speed work at all. I was just focused on getting as much road time as possible. Towards the end of my training I did two speed runs, 5k and 10k. Both on hilly trails.

My 5k time was 22:40ish, down from around 28:00
My 10 time was 53:10ish down from 1:00:00

I could have also gone faster on both of those but I was wary of injury that close to my main run.

Thanks, that's a great data point to have. I'm sure I won't have that dramatic an improvement with no speed work (I'm not training for a 100K), but it does illustrate the concept.

MoiAussi93

msf74 wrote: »

OP,

read these articles if you want some more information about the excellent advice you have been given in this thread to concentrate on base endurance at this point:

Importance of Aerobic Running

Speed v Aerobic Endurance - what is holding you back

Thanks, I will give them a read.

MoiAussi93

ewrook wrote: »

If you're using runkeeper, it has some training plans that might be helpful. I am doing the Beginnner 5 K which starts low, but has some gentle interval training. I was surprised how my speed picked up. I think I could have gone faster but was holding back, running fast for 60 seconds, then slow for 90 seconds I was surprised that to discover after doing this a couple of times that my slow running was at the same pace as my free run pace.

Thanks, I took a look and they also have a 10K training plan. It also focuses mainly on adding more miles at first before eventually adding in a few strides here and there. It seems building a base is the common thread.

moyer566 wrote: »

if you have a good base, you could consider hills. the evil, evil hills. or fartleks

I usually run a flat loop, but there is one with some small hills I run on occasion when I am feeling more energetic. I think I am going to work it in on a regular basis. Maybe once every week or so.

Curtruns wrote: »

to the OP:
as you can see, asking for advice is a bit dangerous on an open forum such as this. My observation is that there are many ways to get where you want to go, so don't get hung up on being on the "right" road. Determine what your goal is and find a plan that you are comfortable with to get you there. I always suggest that novice runners get a book on running ( I used The Complete Book of Running, by Runner's World) It offers fantastic and easily understood advice geared for the beginner without complicating things with a bunch of clutter that is over the head of all but the dedicated running enthusiast.

I like seeing all the different opinions and hearing about other people's experiences. I do think I need to build more of a base before I focus on anything else, that seems to be the consensus. That actually makes it simple in a way...I can just focus on establishing the habit of running more days a week before I get too caught up in all the bells and whistles. I do think I should read up a bit more, so the book idea and the articles others have provided are helpful.

MoiAussi93

bwogilvie wrote: »

This article on bones and connective tissue from Runner's World explains why it is bad to do demanding speed work, or increase volume suddenly, without having a good base.

OP, I am with the group that suggests that you gradually increase the amount of running you do, with one of your weekly runs being relatively long. If you can stand Reddit, the "Running Order of Operations" document by Mike Kessler, linked from the sidebar of the /r/running subreddit, provides a useful overview of one way to improve your running.

Thanks for the links. I am going to read up this weekend. I am convinced though that I need to just run more before I do any intensive speed work. Really there is no downside to that approach, and it sounds like it could help prevent injuries.