Recomp without heavy lifting
JewelLeValley
Posts: 9 Member
4 months ago I had extensive surgery to fix a spinal deformity. Since then I have been in backwards recomp ( losing muscle gaining fat) I cannot lift heavy until I get cleared by my surgeon, which will hopefully be at 6 months but may not be for a full year. Does anyone have any advice for how to put back on some of the muscle I have lost or at least stop the loss that is currently happening without me gaining fat. Thanks in advance.
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Body weight exercises that you can make progressively more difficult.
Convict Conditioning and You are Your Own Gym are two good books to look at for stuff like that.0 -
I second the suggestion of bodyweight exercise if you are allowed to do so by your doctor. You may need to re-evaluate the number of calories you are eating and maybe the breakdown of carbs, protein and fat.0
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In your situation where it was a spinal issue I will go against the grain and say do isolation exercises in the 12-15 rep range, which is ideal range to gain muscle. This will give you spine support while you work on muscles to avoid losing any, and depending on calories, may put some on.
Once you get the go ahead to go heavy again, at that time add in heavy compound movements to the mix.0 -
Agree with Eric above - you need to stimulate your muscles and you can't follow the optimal route of compound exercises and progressive overload.
So that really leaves volume and fatigue as alternatives.
Very different circumstances but I suffered injuries to both wrists (car driver really wanted the piece of road I was on....) that hampered me for months. I did high rep and working to failure work lifting far less than formerly but managed to retain muscle quite well.
Lost a lot of strength as expected but that came back really quickly once I could increase the weights.
Best of luck with your recovery.0 -
I'm sorry, but if you are not cleared to lift heavy, should you be doing any lifting or bodyweight work?0
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Can you ask your primary care physician or surgeon for a referral to a qualified physiotherapist? They should be able to design a program for you that takes your injuries into account.
And you may have to accept that, in the short term at least, you might lose some muscle mass by not being able to work out as usual. It sucks, but it happens. The best thing you can do for yourself is to follow the doctor's instructions, avoid making anything worse, and hopefully recover and get back to your old routine as quickly as possible.0 -
Machines are fantastic for isolating body parts. Ideally you would lift through other means but working around an injury is the most important rule to follow right now.
Step 1 - get your eating under control. That means calculate your TDEE, and eat at maintenance. Set your activity level to mild since you cannot go too hard in the gym.
Step 2 - a good program that you can do safely without aggravating your injury. Since it is your spine, that limits many full body movements. What can you do that is approved by your doctor (for your core)? Are you allowed to plank, run, do step ups, etc? What I know you can do for sure is body isolation via machines and dumbbells if you are not using your core (i.e. triceps kickbacks, any machine where you don't have to move your core, etc.). All of your exercises must be pre-approved by your doctor.
Then you simply continue working on your routine, 2 to 4 times a week (perhaps you have 2 weight days and 2 cardio / long walk days, or 3 full body days with 10-20 minute cardio at the end).0 -
Body weight exercises that you can make progressively more difficult.
Convict Conditioning and You are Your Own Gym are two good books to look at for stuff like that.
I should have stated in my original reply, but definitely check with your doctor before you start anything. You want to make sure that what you are looking to do won't reinjure or aggravate your injury as you heal.0 -
Muscle will get weaker if not used.
But unless you are in a diet there need not be a concern of actually losing it, as in muscle mass.
Eat at maintenance. You still will lose muscle size and strength, and likely make up for it with fat, but it isn't that extreme if you are using it in the least.
And keep protein up, I recall seeing a study or two that showed no loss of muscle mass even in a slight diet when protein was high enough.0 -
I would suggest discussing this with your doctor and physical therapist ...0
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Can you ask your primary care physician or surgeon for a referral to a qualified physiotherapist? They should be able to design a program for you that takes your injuries into account.
And you may have to accept that, in the short term at least, you might lose some muscle mass by not being able to work out as usual. It sucks, but it happens. The best thing you can do for yourself is to follow the doctor's instructions, avoid making anything worse, and hopefully recover and get back to your old routine as quickly as possible.
I went through 6 weeks (my insurance maximum) of PT starting a month after surgery. They gave me a lot of exercises that I still do but at that time we were more worried about things like walking, sitting in a chair, and holding my head up then maintaining my overall muscle mass. By the end of PT we had worked up to a little more strength type exercises. My therapist told me I could return to my "normal" exercise routine with no high impact activities and no heavy free weights. I had to put normal in quotes because my normal is high impact and heavy free weights.
I have been trying to maintain my muscle mass as well as I can with body weight exercises but I am failing horribly. I just got my body composition tested by the same people and method as normal for the first since surgery. Preop I was 5'3 130lbs and always tested between 22 and 24% body fat. Now I am 5'6 130 and 35% body fat. I don't even know how that happened. I lost 16 lbs of lean body mass and put it back on as fat in 4 months. I was expecting to lose some muscle but now I am devastated and it needs to stop.0 -
In your situation where it was a spinal issue I will go against the grain and say do isolation exercises in the 12-15 rep range, which is ideal range to gain muscle. This will give you spine support while you work on muscles to avoid losing any, and depending on calories, may put some on.
Once you get the go ahead to go heavy again, at that time add in heavy compound movements to the mix.
This sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion.0 -
HamsterManV2 wrote: »Machines are fantastic for isolating body parts. Ideally you would lift through other means but working around an injury is the most important rule to follow right now.
Step 1 - get your eating under control. That means calculate your TDEE, and eat at maintenance. Set your activity level to mild since you cannot go too hard in the gym.
Step 2 - a good program that you can do safely without aggravating your injury. Since it is your spine, that limits many full body movements. What can you do that is approved by your doctor (for your core)? Are you allowed to plank, run, do step ups, etc? What I know you can do for sure is body isolation via machines and dumbbells if you are not using your core (i.e. triceps kickbacks, any machine where you don't have to move your core, etc.). All of your exercises must be pre-approved by your doctor.
Then you simply continue working on your routine, 2 to 4 times a week (perhaps you have 2 weight days and 2 cardio / long walk days, or 3 full body days with 10-20 minute cardio at the end).
Step 1- I think I have this under control now. It definitely took some playing with and I know it was messed up in the early days because I didn't want to step on a scale and freak out then stop wanting to feed my body for healing.
Step 2 - As far as core goes I am more limited by what my spine can do than the possibility of hurting myself. My friends like to call me wolverine because there is more metal than bone in my spine. I am fused with rods from the bottom of my neck all the way to the middle of my lower back. Anything that involves twisting or bending my spine is out of the question. I do a lot of plank work and am still trying to find good exercises that don't feel like they are pulling on my hardware. I think I am going to try out some of the isolation machines at the gym. That sounds like a great idea.0 -
JewelLeValley wrote: »Preop I was 5'3 130lbs and always tested between 22 and 24% body fat. Now I am 5'6 130 and 35% body fat. I don't even know how that happened. I lost 16 lbs of lean body mass and put it back on as fat in 4 months. I was expecting to lose some muscle but now I am devastated and it needs to stop.
Ah. I seriously wouldn't stress about those numbers too much. Yes, you probably lost a little bit of muscle and gained a little bit of fat. But I doubt it was that drastic. Most of the methods of estimating body fat are pretty inaccurate -- even the expensive ones like Bod Pod or Dexa scans -- and they can be significantly off.
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Are you cleared for yoga? I know, weird for recomp but there are so many bodyweight poses and it's gentle. Also, what about TRX? Just some ideas for stregnth that are not heavy lifiting.0
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How are you measuring? A simple DXA scan would be thrown off by your newly acquired metal. Bioelectical impedance is not worth the electricity it uses in terms of accuracy.0
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JewelLeValley wrote: »I have been trying to maintain my muscle mass as well as I can with body weight exercises but I am failing horribly. I just got my body composition tested by the same people and method as normal for the first since surgery. Preop I was 5'3 130lbs and always tested between 22 and 24% body fat. Now I am 5'6 130 and 35% body fat. I don't even know how that happened. I lost 16 lbs of lean body mass and put it back on as fat in 4 months. I was expecting to lose some muscle but now I am devastated and it needs to stop.
16 lbs x 3500 / 16 wks / 7 days = 500 cal difference for that to happen, gaining that kind of fat.
And actually, that 3500 cal per lb of fat is on the burning side of the equation - for gaining it's higher because some digestion burn, some not absorbed, ect.
No - unless you were bed ridden you didn't make a trade that fast while still being daily active.
What method was used to measure BF%, I'l bet neither test is best estimate valid.0 -
sistrsprkl wrote: »Are you cleared for yoga? I know, weird for recomp but there are so many bodyweight poses and it's gentle. Also, what about TRX? Just some ideas for stregnth that are not heavy lifiting.
Yoga no. To much twisting. Trx yes. Back in my group fitness instructor days I taught Trx and it was my favorite format. I currently take a Trx class 2 time a week. Thanks for the suggestions.0 -
16 lbs x 3500 / 16 wks / 7 days = 500 cal difference for that to happen, gaining that kind of fat.
And actually, that 3500 cal per lb of fat is on the burning side of the equation - for gaining it's higher because some digestion burn, some not absorbed, ect.
No - unless you were bed ridden you didn't make a trade that fast while still being daily active.
What method was used to measure BF%, I'l bet neither test is best estimate valid.[/quote]
I was bed ridden for about 3 weeks. 1 week in the hospital then two weeks at home where I was on my feet for about an hour a day. After that I gradually worked back up to being at work 10 hours a day and started my 6 weeks of pt. I have only been back to my normal workout schedule for a month and a half now.
The bf% comes from a 3 point caliper measurement done professionally. I know it is not the most accurate method but it has always been at least relatively consistent in the past.0 -
Yes, in the hands of a skilled person presented with same hydrated body it can be consistent, and a 5% accurate method for the 5 & 7 - site method. 3 site? ehhhh.
So I still don't think you made that huge of a trade, but likely some.
And that's a measure of LBM - not muscle mass, estimate of BF% is based on that.
LBM includes increased blood volume from working out and needing to stay cool.
Did you need increased blood volume?
LBM includes more stored carbs in muscles for using the muscles, and their attached water.
Did you need as many stored carbs?
LBM includes general stored water between cells to aid in waste removal from hard working cells.
Have as many hard working cells that need that water?
Sadly all those things also decrease metabolism - less carbs/water to manage, less stuff to do.
Besides obviously your TDEE is lower - so good job on maintaining weight, I'm sure you are eating way less than you were used to.
So many reasons to lose LBM that doesn't mean muscle mass, though I know they went down in size.
If you kept eating level up - and it appears you did with no change to weight - I'd suggest it isn't as great as you might think. Though some.
But don't start a diet - recomp based on the body needing more energy to repair from the surgery.
Try to keep weight the same, and I'll bet body will bounce back better than Dr's think - you started out on a better pair of feet.0 -
Your best bet is to switch to ketogenic diet, so you can at least burn the fat.0
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I was researching something else and bumped into some information about very good results of intermittent fasting for body recomposition (at Precision Nutrition). You might want to take a look at that. I also suspect that with your health limitations you are doing as much as you can on the exercise front. If that is the case, you will have to tackle the problem through diet. Ask your doctor for a referral to a clinical dietitian, in most cases that will be covered by insurance (This is often a one consultation "diet adjustment" coverage, so make sure you have a written list of everything you want to discuss with the CD). Good luck!
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JewelLeValley wrote: »Can you ask your primary care physician or surgeon for a referral to a qualified physiotherapist? They should be able to design a program for you that takes your injuries into account.
And you may have to accept that, in the short term at least, you might lose some muscle mass by not being able to work out as usual. It sucks, but it happens. The best thing you can do for yourself is to follow the doctor's instructions, avoid making anything worse, and hopefully recover and get back to your old routine as quickly as possible.
I went through 6 weeks (my insurance maximum) of PT starting a month after surgery. They gave me a lot of exercises that I still do but at that time we were more worried about things like walking, sitting in a chair, and holding my head up then maintaining my overall muscle mass. By the end of PT we had worked up to a little more strength type exercises. My therapist told me I could return to my "normal" exercise routine with no high impact activities and no heavy free weights. I had to put normal in quotes because my normal is high impact and heavy free weights.
I have been trying to maintain my muscle mass as well as I can with body weight exercises but I am failing horribly. I just got my body composition tested by the same people and method as normal for the first since surgery. Preop I was 5'3 130lbs and always tested between 22 and 24% body fat. Now I am 5'6 130 and 35% body fat. I don't even know how that happened. I lost 16 lbs of lean body mass and put it back on as fat in 4 months. I was expecting to lose some muscle but now I am devastated and it needs to stop.
Well if you are the same with all that hardware, some of that weight is just that - hardware. Your actual body weight is slightly different. You might want to take that into account when doing TDEE, deciding what amount of exercise is needed etc.
I had no idea you could gain 3 ins. in height through surgery, almost sounds tempting NOT.
I have several friends with a lot of spinal hardware, I wish you well in all your rehab work and you a true champ for not gaining more weight in general, most end up over weight and not able to exercise. You are on a difficult journey and I wish you great success.
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If you're not cleared to lift weight, I wouldn't chance even body weight. It's a hard pill to swallow, but pushing yourself could result in permanent injuries.
You might ask your doctor about working out in a pool - less stress on the joints, etc. Flotation weights are pretty rigorous once you build up some strength.0 -
Ditto again.
Right now with your activity level - the vast majority of your energy source is fat already. Except for right after meals as insulin turns off fat release and you burn what you ate. Which isn't much right now.
That would be the time to walk or be more active if possible.0 -
There is a limit to what can be accomplished when you can't lift. Bodyweight exercises are good, but progressing them involves very gymnastic moves that might not be possible for you. I tried doing high reps to compensate for low intensity, but that actually got me into new trouble with even more repetitive strain injuries (tendinopathy). 2-3x12-15 reps is fine, just don't go doing 3-4x20-30. Isolation exercises on the machines are a good idea, if you can do them (and are cleared for that.)
Definitely do all and any exercise you can. You could see a PT once or twice to design a program, and go back in a month or so. (Pool exercises sound reasonable to me in the absence of that kind of advice, and I guess you could try resistance bands.)
Other than increasing muscle mass, which is not likely, you can lose some absolute amount of fat and probably lower your bf% by losing weight - I have read that the ratio is 70% fat, 30% lean mass. That doesn't sound like it's ideal for you, though. Maintenance is probably the best option.
I've got a number of chronic injuries that mean I am very limited in what I can do, so I understand how you feel, but I think you should be realistic about what's possible right now. A buff body like you'd see in fitspo stuff is probably not on the table. It is really hard to wrap your head around this, I know
Muscle will get weaker if not used.
But unless you are in a diet there need not be a concern of actually losing it, as in muscle mass.
Eat at maintenance. You still will lose muscle size and strength, and likely make up for it with fat, but it isn't that extreme if you are using it in the least.
And keep protein up, I recall seeing a study or two that showed no loss of muscle mass even in a slight diet when protein was high enough.
That's heartening to know
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Thanks everyone for the responses. After getting over the shock of the giant number facing me I had a moment of clarity this weekend. I was sitting on top of a mountain 10miles into a 20 mile hike and I realized preop I never would have made it here. My back would have been in severe spasms and I would have been lying down on the trail a few miles back, crying in pain and popping pain meds and muscle relaxers just to make it back to the car. So whatever the number really is it's ok because as soon as I'm cleared I am going to go so much further than I ever could preop.retirehappy wrote: »
I had no idea you could gain 3 ins. in height through surgery, almost sounds tempting NOT.
Haha It was a nice side effect. I have attached my xrays if you want to see what that looks like.
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Wow,I'm guessing that upper curve was the reason for the surgery (as in you weren't standing like that for the x-ray).
But that is a lot of metalwork.
But those are some great results! I hope for you that you get cleared soon.0 -
Wow,I'm guessing that upper curve was the reason for the surgery (as in you weren't standing like that for the x-ray).
But that is a lot of metalwork.
But those are some great results! I hope for you that you get cleared soon.
Yep I'm actually pushing down against a railing to straighten my back as much as possible in the first one.0
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