Adderall - To do or Not to do
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My understanding was that some ADHD meds do not have the desired effect if you do not actually have ADHD. Most people, if they take a stimulant, will be jittery, hyper, etc, but the opposite effect happens if you have ADHD. No idea how true it is, but its been repeated to me multiple times.
My H has diagnosed ADHD and has trialed a few drugs. He found one that he felt worked well with few side effects (it was a new super expensive one of course!). The other 2 he tried had very unpleasant side effects. The one that stuck with me, and I think it was Adderall but my memory could be off, he said he felt like he could concentrate great, but he got angry if anyone interrupted him, wanted to talk, if he had to go to a meeting, etc. Obviously not a good choice when you work in an office with other people and don't just sit alone all day doing your work!
In order to get meds he first had to do a full eval with a psychiatrist, and then he had to go back every 30 days. It was not a simple process. I am sure there are docs out there that just hand scripts out like candy, but I wouldn't trust one of them to be fully evaluating the drug's effect on your brain and body.
In the end he decided that his job at the time (which sometimes required 8 hours of concentration on mundane tasks) was just pretty dang boring, and that a different job that made him happier was a better choice than medication. He switched jobs and hasn't felt like he needed meds since that one job.0 -
From what I recall, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't have ADD/ADHD, doesn't Adderall get you high-ish and hyper? My friend back in h.s. took the meds, my husband used to also, and they always said that0
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Kimegatron wrote: »From what I recall, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't have ADD/ADHD, doesn't Adderall get you high-ish and hyper? My friend back in h.s. took the meds, my husband used to also, and they always said that
Adderall is an amphetamine, so some people do experience a "high" from it, as well as jitters and sometimes anxiety. This is one of the many reasons why I don't recommend it - it's pretty potent.0 -
Just because we'd like some drugs doesn't mean we can just go to the doctor's and get them. I mean, I'd like some Xanax to relax in my downtime, but I don't have the anxiety disorder to be prescribed it.
Well, I'll talk to a doctor, see what he thinks, but I appreciate your opinions. Truthfully tho, I was looking for experiences from those who've tried the drug.
I'll disclose that I've tried the drug. I used it while in school to force myself to study for hours on end. It seems to have the opposite of intended effect on those who do not have ADHD. It calms ADHD/ADD people down so they can focus, but the rest of us it is like meth. Endless energy, no need for food, quenchless thirst, can get 50 things done in one day.
That said, I could make 1/4 of a pill last all day. My friends who still use the drug as the adults are taking 3 pills a day now, and literally can't function without it. Their bodies have become accustomed to the high. That is something that I wouldn't want to live with.0 -
My brother and an ex boyfriend were on adderall for a time. Both were prescribed it for ADHD. My brother stopped using it because he didn't like how it made him feel, focused but also like he couldn't get super excited and was just mellow. He also didn't like how much it suppressed his appetite, he never wanted to eat. My ex took it in college to focus on school work. He also stopped eating much, but it didn't seem to bother him. It bothered me because I don't think he was getting enough to fuel himself. At first he took it to study and focus in class but then it was all the time, even on weekends. I questioned why he needed it when he wasn't studying. Eventually he found it wasn't working as well. He once took one, it didn't do anything, then took another and found that both kicked in and it was crazy. He was super odd on it, like obssessed. He concentrated on cleaning every nook for the kitchen for 3 hours. Then he decided to study but the minute he felt his chair squeak and wobble he flipped it over and decided to fix it for 2 hours. He was too hyper aware of everything. I think after that he decided to stop using it for a bit or try something else. My friend decided to take one of his pills to study for finals and found that it helped her focus, but on facebook for 3 hours, and that it was too powerful for her as she's not hyperactive. So you might find that you get stuff done or you focus on one silly thing. Unless you are super ADHD I think it would be too powerful for what you need and suggest you find alternatives to help motivate you to do things.0
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I've taken it, just for kicks. Not a fan. It makes me jittery, heart races, can't sleep, anxious...it was pretty much awful.0
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I_Will_End_You wrote: »I've taken it, just for kicks. Not a fan. It makes me jittery, heart races, can't sleep, anxious...it was pretty much awful.
Ah, Thanks0 -
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A wise thing to do is ask your doctor and discuss it with him.
My son had it for some time and indeed more anxious was the result for him. Not beneficial for him at all. He was better off without out.
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My son is one of those people that this is a miracle drug for. Ironically he hates to take it because he doesn't like the way it makes him feel. He feels disjointed on it.0
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Adderall is an attention deficit (hyperactivity) disorder medication. It is for people who are hyperactive to the point where they cannot focus because they're focusing on 50 things at once. This does not sound like you. Your story sounds the opposite, like you're wandering around looking for something to do, bored, etc. Find hobbies that actually excite you. Hang out with some friends. Do a project at home. Go for a walk. Get a pet.
Just because we'd like some drugs doesn't mean we can just go to the doctor's and get them. I mean, I'd like some Xanax to relax in my downtime, but I don't have the anxiety disorder to be prescribed it.
ADHD is a dysregulation of attention; there's also an inattentive type.
People who need meds, need them, and I'm sure the OP's doctor will take the required steps to figure it out / refer on if it's a possible diagnosis.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »So...let me talk a little bit about my experience with Adderall. First off, it's amazing. It focuses your mind, sharpens your cognitive abilities, and heightens your awareness. It makes you feel like you have all the willpower you need to get whatever is in front of you done, then go organize everything in your bedroom and solve a 10,000 piece puzzle.
Then there's the crash. Adderall is actually dextroamphetamine. You may recognize the -amphetamine portion of that as being related to the term methamphetamine. They're related. As such, you can expect a lot of side effects with Adderall, including inability to sleep, headaches, and extreme fatigue when you come down. Further, Adderall is highly habit forming, and you'll build up a tolerance to it eventually, resulting in you needing to take more and more.
Here's the long and short of it. Adderall is fine if you're pulling an all-nighter at work or studying and need to power through it. However, you should never make it a long-term part of your life, and you should understand that you're taking a powerful drug. It's basically a weaker form of cocaine or meth, so you should think of it in those terms. It's not the drug from the movie Limitless.
Personally, I don't take Adderall at all anymore. It's not worth the laundry list of side effects.
What he said. I used to have a daily prescription for it and i would get really productive in the morning, then really irritated, and I wouldn't be able to sleep without medication. I lost weight, but only because I was eating like 200 calories a day. It is basically legalized cocaine and you should take it with caution.0 -
Kimegatron wrote: »From what I recall, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't have ADD/ADHD, doesn't Adderall get you high-ish and hyper? My friend back in h.s. took the meds, my husband used to also, and they always said that
I think that it does different things to the brains of people who have ADD vs. those who do not.
OP, you really need to talk this through with your doctor. What you are describing sounds more like depression or general malaise than anything that would be treated with Adderall.
Are you getting enough exercise? Moving more can help with attitude, motivation and focus.
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azulvioleta6 wrote: »Kimegatron wrote: »From what I recall, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't have ADD/ADHD, doesn't Adderall get you high-ish and hyper? My friend back in h.s. took the meds, my husband used to also, and they always said that
I think that it does different things to the brains of people who have ADD vs. those who do not.
Well, it's a stimulant and nootropic. Everyone who takes it is going to get positive short-term cognitive benefits. For people with ADHD and some other executive issues, that means functioning in life the way other people do.
Anyway, it's rare for those meds to be handed out like Advil to just anyone, especially adults.0 -
Ah, I see that your hobby is online gaming. Now it makes sense.
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You want to take a medication formulated for a disorder you don't have? It sounds more like you need to learn how to focus, learn strategies and if you're disinterested in things, figure out why. Depression? Boredom? Either way, Adderall is over prescribed and taking a medication you don't need is a ridiculous idea.0
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The reason that drugs like Adderall do what they do to people who don't have ADHD is because they are contraindicated. Meaning that they are not supposed to be used by people who don't have the condition. A doctor is not going to prescribe you a medication to help you get a bit more motivated.
It works for people with ADHD because their brains don't work the same, chemically, that the typical brain does. Caffeine and other stimulants don't 'stimulate' them. Adderall and Ritalin will help them focus and remain calmer than they can when attempting to function without the medication.
For someone with a typical brain, Adderall and Ritalin and drugs in that class act as a stimulant, because of the way they are engineered to work in the ADHD brain. It's not a normal chemical function, so it's dangerous to use. Therefore, doctors don't presribe these drugs to people who don't need them for the focusing and calming functions they provide.
If you need to feel 'enthusiastic' and motivated, either find some new hobbies that are more interesting and motivating, or add something to your life that gets you going, like exercise.0 -
It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.0
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OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.1 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
My concern is for the information you posted about a Control IV and how to obtain it without a prescription.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.
It's not quite right to say these drugs were "engineered" for "the ADHD brain" (as though there were a single anatomical classic type), though. They're stimulants, they work on dopaminergic systems, they facilitate frontal processes. They have largely predictable effects, but it takes trial and error and tinkering to figure out which drug will do what in ADHD brain A (or B or C).
I really dislike the way psychiatric conditions and the drugs used to treat them are talked about in the general culture, as though the precise nature of the "imbalance" can be worked out in advance. The effectiveness of any given drug, in any given person, for any given condition is still a crapshoot, to a greater or lesser degree.
That said, I'm pragmatic -it comes down to the bottom line, for me. If someone is *just not functioning in life*, in patterns that conform to what we call ADHD, there's no reason not to try a drug that might help, based on what we know about that disorder + the drug etc.
I think OP probably has other reasons to believe that diagnosis might apply. We don't know - his doctor will though.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.
It's not quite right to say these drugs were "engineered" for "the ADHD brain" (as though there were a single anatomical classic type), though. They're stimulants, they work on dopaminergic systems, they facilitate frontal processes. They have largely predictable effects, but it takes trial and error and tinkering to figure out which drug will do what in ADHD brain A (or B or C).
I really dislike the way psychiatric conditions and the drugs used to treat them are talked about in the general culture, as though the precise nature of the "imbalance" can be worked out in advance. The effectiveness of any given drug, in any given person, for any given condition is still a crapshoot, to a greater or lesser degree.
When Adderall and Ritalin et.al. are prescribed for these medically diagnosed conditions (and I do mean correctly diagnosed, not rampantly diagnosed as has occurred in some places), they are expected to work in a certain way. There are certainly different effects in different people, given that everyone's physiology is different and will respond differently, and adaptations will need to be made.
that being said, the main point of topic here is that this class of drugs is still for a very specific use, and that use is not to 'motivate' someone who is just bored with his usual hobbies and wants a stimulant.
These stimulants were not created to be used in the type of brain which doesn't have the chemical makeup that the ADHD patient has.0 -
The choice to take any drug is one you have to make with your doctor, not random online people.
I would suggest not thinking up reasons to take drugs, but instead, just discuss your problems with your doctor as they come up (or at your yearly physical) and then consider taking what he suggests IF he suggests drugs.
Avoiding drugs, when you can, is always the best and smartest plan.
Make the smart choice.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.
I also told OP that I don't recommend taking Adderall. I don't disagree with you.OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
My concern is for the information you posted about a Control IV and how to obtain it without a prescription.
Actually I said that it could be obtained. I actually then stated that I didn't think OP should try them, just that it could be done. I never posted how, other than to say that there are websites where you can purchase them. If you think I've broken a rule here, please feel free to report me.
Further, I also said quite specifically that I do not recommend OP takes Adderall. However, it's been proven time and again that threatening people with the legal ramifications of taking a drug does not stop them from doing it. For this reason, I personally feel that the best policy is to lay all the cards on the table, good and bad, and let OP decide for himself. An informed decision will always be better than one made out of fear.0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.
It's not quite right to say these drugs were "engineered" for "the ADHD brain" (as though there were a single anatomical classic type), though. They're stimulants, they work on dopaminergic systems, they facilitate frontal processes. They have largely predictable effects, but it takes trial and error and tinkering to figure out which drug will do what in ADHD brain A (or B or C).
I really dislike the way psychiatric conditions and the drugs used to treat them are talked about in the general culture, as though the precise nature of the "imbalance" can be worked out in advance. The effectiveness of any given drug, in any given person, for any given condition is still a crapshoot, to a greater or lesser degree.
When Adderall and Ritalin et.al. are prescribed for these medically diagnosed conditions (and I do mean correctly diagnosed, not rampantly diagnosed as has occurred in some places), they are expected to work in a certain way. There are certainly different effects in different people, given that everyone's physiology is different and will respond differently, and adaptations will need to be made.
that being said, the main point of topic here is that this class of drugs is still for a very specific use, and that use is not to 'motivate' someone who is just bored with his usual hobbies and wants a stimulant.
These stimulants were not created to be used in the type of brain which doesn't have the chemical makeup that the ADHD patient has.
We don't know for sure that the OP doesn't have ADHD, though. I'm willing to bet there's more to his story than he's told us. You're right, though, an MD or psychologist should be able to work it out.
I just think we as a society need to be more realistic about what it is we're doing, here. There isn't a blood test to diagnose ADHD. It's a constellation of behavioural dysfunctions that have been observed over time and classed as a disorder. We have some ideas about the causes of these behavioural dysfunctions, and we have drugs that (again by observation and in accordance with the theories we have) work to help people who fit that diagnosis function better. And that's fine, I have no problem with that, I'm pragmatic. People need to function in their lives. But we don't know everything there is to know about many psychiatric disorders, that whole field is still pretty messy, and we should recognize that.
(E.g., some now think the SSRIs we thought "fixed the imbalance of serotonin" might work - when they do - via different mechanisms than we thought. How crude and simplistic an idea was that, really, as if serotonin could be isolated from the rest of that chemical soup.)0 -
OneHundredToLose wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »It's important to note that while Adderall specifically was formulated for treatment of ADHD, dextroamphetamine is a general stimulant that has been around far longer than Adderall and isn't designed specifically for its treatment. This is a common misconception.
At least 3 of your posts have started with "it's important to note..." On this thread. The fact is, you're not a doctor or an expert on pharmaceutical effects on anyone else and you need to stop doling out information about stimulants and other medications that the OP should try. This OP is already considering a ridiculous idea and does not need your help finding more ridiculous options. He needs to see a physician, not a forum.
You're right, I'm not a doctor. I definitely never claimed to be, but thanks for pointing that out. You're not a dinosaur. Now that we've stated obvious things, let's move on.
Another thing you were kind enough to point out without solicitation is that I'm not an expert in "pharmaceutical effects". This is definitely true, which is why I'm glad I also didn't claim this. However, I have personally had a decent amount of experience with the particular drug that OP was asking about. He actually said earlier in the thread that he was looking for advice specifically from people who have tried it. Maybe you missed that when you were going over my posts with a magnifying glass?
I'm not sure why this has you upset - I welcome anyone who disagrees with me to point out where and how I'm wrong. This is a discussion, not a debate. Since you were also so quick to point out that he "needs a physician, not a forum", I'm curious as to why you bothered posting? Doing so would only bump this thread higher and cause more people to offer OP advice.
Your opinion on OP's question aside, this is a forum (which you were very astute to point out). In a forum, members are supposed to weigh in. That is, in fact, the very thing they were designed for. Again, if you disagree with me, please feel free to state why and how I'm wrong. If, however, all you seem to take issue with is the way I choose to phrase my posts, I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I can do for you.
I also have experience with this class of drugs - and I answered OP's questions. Regardless of when the medications were created, I explained exactly why they shouldn't be taken outside of the scope of what they are for.
It's not quite right to say these drugs were "engineered" for "the ADHD brain" (as though there were a single anatomical classic type), though. They're stimulants, they work on dopaminergic systems, they facilitate frontal processes. They have largely predictable effects, but it takes trial and error and tinkering to figure out which drug will do what in ADHD brain A (or B or C).
I really dislike the way psychiatric conditions and the drugs used to treat them are talked about in the general culture, as though the precise nature of the "imbalance" can be worked out in advance. The effectiveness of any given drug, in any given person, for any given condition is still a crapshoot, to a greater or lesser degree.
When Adderall and Ritalin et.al. are prescribed for these medically diagnosed conditions (and I do mean correctly diagnosed, not rampantly diagnosed as has occurred in some places), they are expected to work in a certain way. There are certainly different effects in different people, given that everyone's physiology is different and will respond differently, and adaptations will need to be made.
that being said, the main point of topic here is that this class of drugs is still for a very specific use, and that use is not to 'motivate' someone who is just bored with his usual hobbies and wants a stimulant.
These stimulants were not created to be used in the type of brain which doesn't have the chemical makeup that the ADHD patient has.
We don't know for sure that the OP doesn't have ADHD, though. I'm willing to bet there's more to his story than he's told us. You're right, though, an MD or psychologist should be able to work it out.
I just think we as a society need to be more realistic about what it is we're doing, here. There isn't a blood test to diagnose ADHD. It's a constellation of behavioural dysfunctions that have been observed over time and classed as a disorder. We have some ideas about the causes of these behavioural dysfunctions, and we have drugs that (again by observation and in accordance with the theories we have) work to help people who fit that diagnosis function better. And that's fine, I have no problem with that, I'm pragmatic. People need to function in their lives. But we don't know everything there is to know about many psychiatric disorders, that whole field is still pretty messy, and we should recognize that.
(E.g., some now think the SSRIs we thought "fixed the imbalance of serotonin" might work - when they do - via different mechanisms than we thought. How crude and simplistic an idea was that, really, as if serotonin could be isolated from the rest of that chemical soup.)
I completely agree with you. The autism scale is another example. There's no blood test to prove a person is autistic - but we do have psychological and behavioral tests that we know can prove when people are somewhere on the autism scale. ADHD has been around long enough that we know a lot more about it than we used to; I've had a lot of experience with it and know enough about the symptoms that it's pretty easily identifiable now.
that being said I don't think the drugs work as well as they should. From my own observation, they have too much of a sedative effect, and stunt other drives, like appetite and growth. Because these drugs are available, the research isn't being done to find a better alternative.
With all of that being said, I find it horrifying that someone would actively seek to be prescribed a medication without any type of diagnosis. the side effects alone should scare people off. (Not to mention the price!)0
This discussion has been closed.
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