Why are my hamstrings permanently sore and tight?
Replies
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drewlfitness wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »VioletRojo wrote: »Don't stretch just your hamstrings. Tightness in the hamstrings can be caused by any of the muscles in the posterior chain, so you need to stretch your calves, hams, gluts, and erector spinae.
Thanks. I do stretch more than just my hamstrings. I step into a "stretching cage" before each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain.
Can you be more specific about your stretching routine?
- Pre-workout routine?
types of self-myofacial release / stretches / dynamic movments? If stretching, how much time holding each stretch?
- Post-workout
same as above
I step into a "stretching cage" before and after each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain. I hold each angle for about 15-20 seconds, switch to a different angle, and repeat multiple times on all the muscles for the duration of about 5 minutes.
Without monitoring your routine it's hard to say just from that, but I'm going to say it's not enough if you're tight and sore from the tightness all the time. To be so tight that it creates soreness is pretty tight; I'm not picking at you but that's just a good sign.
This is a generalized program but I would give this a start and see how you go. Give yourself 20-30 minutes pre-workout.
- Self-Myofacial Release with a foam roller and / or lacrosse ball: Move on the device until you find the trigger point (it will be sore to really uncomfortable) and hold it for 30-sec's+
1. hamstrings
2. glutes & piriformis
3. tensor fascia
4. low back (quadratus lumborum)
5. latissimus
- Active Isolation Stretching: You move through the range of motion and hold the extension / end of motion for 2-sec's release, repeat the motion, hold 2-sec's, repeat for 10-reps, can be multiple sets
1. lying hamstring stretch
2. biceps femoris stretch
3. iron cross
4. lower back
5. t-spine strech (Eric Cressey has a great video on this one)
In your situation 5-minutes of stretching is likely not adequate. Many people can get away with a short dynamic stretching routine but pre-workout dynamic stretching is not law, despite what people and media try to sell; stretching is very much individualized based on the individual.
Post-workout: Go back and do some static-stretching or at least at some-point int he day for your hamstrings, glutes, hips, piriformis, and lower-back. Also, static-stretches must be held for 30-sec's or there is no affect, the golgi-tendons require that much time. Lastly, stretch on non-training days as well.
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drewlfitness wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »How often are you doing workouts that focus on your legs? What exercises do you normally do? Outside of some sort of medical/physical malady, my very basic suggestion would be to work your legs more often.
I've been working out fairly "hard" for the last 6 months. I am squatting 300 and deadlifting 300. I squat 3 times a week, and deadlift 1-2 times a week. I also do uphill treadmill walking 5 days a week, for 40 minutes each session.
Three heavy squat sessions a week plus two deadlift sessions a week? Did you just start working out 6 months ago or is that just when you got serious about it.
I have been working out for about 13 years, but years 10-13 I stayed away from heavy lifting and only did cardio on cardio machines. I became quite weak, so 6 months ago I decided to get back into it. I actually feel great and regret ever halting my weight lifting regime. I will say that the reason I have taken on deadlift is to build a stronger back, which I have been lacking in my entire life. I never did deadlift until 6 months ago, instead I just did the typical lifts like check, biceps, back cables, and basically everything but compound lifting. I also never heavily focused on my abs, although I did focus on them a little but and at least have a fairly flat stomach. I have a larger than normal anterior pelvic tilt, so I have been using a back inversion table to attempt to tackle that, which has been quite effective as long as you use it normally.
Deadlift and squat are supposed to be effective in creating abdominal strength with is another reason I am doing more compound lifting.
Deadlifting and Squatting are effect at improving abdominal strength but actually no more effective than other isolation exercises. Where it gets confused is that those exercises at loads of 70%+ are the MOST effective at the Core muscles of the back, so unfortunately some people make the association they are the most effective for the front as well which isn't true.
What about when doing 85%? That's what I've been pretty much doing. Also, I have wondered if my front abdominal are actually getting much of a workout when squatting and deadlifting. I do feel them being used, but not nearly as much as if I do abdominal specific exercises.
Doing abdominal specific exercise are my least favorite thing to do. I don't like the strain it has on neck when lifting my neck and head to do ab workouts. I would like to find a way to do abdominal exercises that have more to do with movement and balance, perhaps using cables I will try.
I'm not saying that they don't work the abs, I'm just saying that they are not the most effective. I had actually stopped a lot of direct Core work myself. Then my final semester of school I wrote a meta-analysis for my final project on Core training and found that the perception that squats & deadlifts are the best exercises for ab / oblique training is a little off-base but quite true for the Core stabilizers & movers of the back. Because they do provide quite a bit of stimulus for your anterior Core muscles you don't need to do a lot of extra work by any means because you can strain those muscles. I found that doing the Ab Wheel, OR 90-degree crunches, OR some kind of Plank once to MAYBE twice per week is pretty good for me. When I first used the Ab Wheel my abs were sore for the full week after, which really just kind of supported the results I found during my research that squats & deadlifts aren't the best.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »How often are you doing workouts that focus on your legs? What exercises do you normally do? Outside of some sort of medical/physical malady, my very basic suggestion would be to work your legs more often.
I've been working out fairly "hard" for the last 6 months. I am squatting 300 and deadlifting 300. I squat 3 times a week, and deadlift 1-2 times a week. I also do uphill treadmill walking 5 days a week, for 40 minutes each session.
Three heavy squat sessions a week plus two deadlift sessions a week? Did you just start working out 6 months ago or is that just when you got serious about it.
I have been working out for about 13 years, but years 10-13 I stayed away from heavy lifting and only did cardio on cardio machines. I became quite weak, so 6 months ago I decided to get back into it. I actually feel great and regret ever halting my weight lifting regime. I will say that the reason I have taken on deadlift is to build a stronger back, which I have been lacking in my entire life. I never did deadlift until 6 months ago, instead I just did the typical lifts like check, biceps, back cables, and basically everything but compound lifting. I also never heavily focused on my abs, although I did focus on them a little but and at least have a fairly flat stomach. I have a larger than normal anterior pelvic tilt, so I have been using a back inversion table to attempt to tackle that, which has been quite effective as long as you use it normally.
Deadlift and squat are supposed to be effective in creating abdominal strength with is another reason I am doing more compound lifting.
Deadlifting and Squatting are effect at improving abdominal strength but actually no more effective than other isolation exercises. Where it gets confused is that those exercises at loads of 70%+ are the MOST effective at the Core muscles of the back, so unfortunately some people make the association they are the most effective for the front as well which isn't true.
I don't really know enough to say but I was wondering if part of the problem could be that he is overdoing things. Is squatting heavy 3x/week too much? You're going to be able to answer that better than I would.
I think it depends on how heavy, total volume, and recovery. Coaches like John Broz has his people squatting 4 to 5 times per week and since they compete nationally they're drug-free, so there's nothing special aiding in their recovery. For the average every-day person that could be too much if their recovery isn't on-point, just depends on a few variables.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »VioletRojo wrote: »Don't stretch just your hamstrings. Tightness in the hamstrings can be caused by any of the muscles in the posterior chain, so you need to stretch your calves, hams, gluts, and erector spinae.
Thanks. I do stretch more than just my hamstrings. I step into a "stretching cage" before each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain.
Can you be more specific about your stretching routine?
- Pre-workout routine?
types of self-myofacial release / stretches / dynamic movments? If stretching, how much time holding each stretch?
- Post-workout
same as above
I step into a "stretching cage" before and after each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain. I hold each angle for about 15-20 seconds, switch to a different angle, and repeat multiple times on all the muscles for the duration of about 5 minutes.
Without monitoring your routine it's hard to say just from that, but I'm going to say it's not enough if you're tight and sore from the tightness all the time. To be so tight that it creates soreness is pretty tight; I'm not picking at you but that's just a good sign.
This is a generalized program but I would give this a start and see how you go. Give yourself 20-30 minutes pre-workout.
- Self-Myofacial Release with a foam roller and / or lacrosse ball: Move on the device until you find the trigger point (it will be sore to really uncomfortable) and hold it for 30-sec's+
1. hamstrings
2. glutes & piriformis
3. tensor fascia
4. low back (quadratus lumborum)
5. latissimus
- Active Isolation Stretching: You move through the range of motion and hold the extension / end of motion for 2-sec's release, repeat the motion, hold 2-sec's, repeat for 10-reps, can be multiple sets
1. lying hamstring stretch
2. biceps femoris stretch
3. iron cross
4. lower back
5. t-spine strech (Eric Cressey has a great video on this one)
In your situation 5-minutes of stretching is likely not adequate. Many people can get away with a short dynamic stretching routine but pre-workout dynamic stretching is not law, despite what people and media try to sell; stretching is very much individualized based on the individual.
Post-workout: Go back and do some static-stretching or at least at some-point int he day for your hamstrings, glutes, hips, piriformis, and lower-back. Also, static-stretches must be held for 30-sec's or there is no affect, the golgi-tendons require that much time. Lastly, stretch on non-training days as well.
Ah, the foam roller. I actually did the foam roller on my quads and hamstring about a year ago, for the first time. It was EXTREMELY PAINFUL the first few weeks, and I mean extreme to the point of my eyes watering and me basically crying from the pain. This was simply rolling on the foam roller, laying on the ground, rolling back and fourth, and holding it on certain areas. The pain was on my quads. It was pretty bizarre how painful it was. I really couldn't believe it. So perhaps I should start doing that again, because if it's painful, that's probably a sign that I need to do it...
Unfortunately because of the pain that I just listed above, and just the overall tightness of all my muscles, I basically need to do a separate entire gym visit just for this (unless I stay at the gym for 2-3 hours as I don't really like speeding through my lifting). This is probably because I have never really focused enough on stretching or foam rolling in my life, so it's terrible starting out. Maybe this is where actual physical therapy comes into play, or massage therapy, to get me over the initial hump and pain.
I really appreciate your detailed response, input, and suggestions. I read your posts below too, and the one about just doing ab specific isolation once or twice a week sounds like something I could do immediately, since that isn't very time intensive and I won't need to do some crazy 45-minute ab routine if all I want is balanced strength on both my front and back side (not bulky huge abs).
I'll have to give these things a try0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »How often are you doing workouts that focus on your legs? What exercises do you normally do? Outside of some sort of medical/physical malady, my very basic suggestion would be to work your legs more often.
I've been working out fairly "hard" for the last 6 months. I am squatting 300 and deadlifting 300. I squat 3 times a week, and deadlift 1-2 times a week. I also do uphill treadmill walking 5 days a week, for 40 minutes each session.
Three heavy squat sessions a week plus two deadlift sessions a week? Did you just start working out 6 months ago or is that just when you got serious about it.
I have been working out for about 13 years, but years 10-13 I stayed away from heavy lifting and only did cardio on cardio machines. I became quite weak, so 6 months ago I decided to get back into it. I actually feel great and regret ever halting my weight lifting regime. I will say that the reason I have taken on deadlift is to build a stronger back, which I have been lacking in my entire life. I never did deadlift until 6 months ago, instead I just did the typical lifts like check, biceps, back cables, and basically everything but compound lifting. I also never heavily focused on my abs, although I did focus on them a little but and at least have a fairly flat stomach. I have a larger than normal anterior pelvic tilt, so I have been using a back inversion table to attempt to tackle that, which has been quite effective as long as you use it normally.
Deadlift and squat are supposed to be effective in creating abdominal strength with is another reason I am doing more compound lifting.
Deadlifting and Squatting are effect at improving abdominal strength but actually no more effective than other isolation exercises. Where it gets confused is that those exercises at loads of 70%+ are the MOST effective at the Core muscles of the back, so unfortunately some people make the association they are the most effective for the front as well which isn't true.
What about when doing 85%? That's what I've been pretty much doing. Also, I have wondered if my front abdominal are actually getting much of a workout when squatting and deadlifting. I do feel them being used, but not nearly as much as if I do abdominal specific exercises.
Doing abdominal specific exercise are my least favorite thing to do. I don't like the strain it has on neck when lifting my neck and head to do ab workouts. I would like to find a way to do abdominal exercises that have more to do with movement and balance, perhaps using cables I will try.
I'm not saying that they don't work the abs, I'm just saying that they are not the most effective. I had actually stopped a lot of direct Core work myself. Then my final semester of school I wrote a meta-analysis for my final project on Core training and found that the perception that squats & deadlifts are the best exercises for ab / oblique training is a little off-base but quite true for the Core stabilizers & movers of the back. Because they do provide quite a bit of stimulus for your anterior Core muscles you don't need to do a lot of extra work by any means because you can strain those muscles. I found that doing the Ab Wheel, OR 90-degree crunches, OR some kind of Plank once to MAYBE twice per week is pretty good for me. When I first used the Ab Wheel my abs were sore for the full week after, which really just kind of supported the results I found during my research that squats & deadlifts aren't the best.
Thanks for reminding me about ab wheel. I did that a couple months ago and same thing, my entire stomach was sore for 1-2 weeks, just from doing about 30 reps of ab roller (3x10). The initial issue that I noticed was it felt like the discs in my back were being pinched, but after a couple weeks, that pinch was reduced in intensity, which is a good sign that maybe my body decided to strengthen up around that spinal area. Another reason I am doing deadlifts, for back strength.0 -
drewlfitness wrote: »Unfortunately because of the pain that I just listed above, and just the overall tightness of all my muscles, I basically need to do a separate entire gym visit just for this (unless I stay at the gym for 2-3 hours as I don't really like speeding through my lifting). This is probably because I have never really focused enough on stretching or foam rolling in my life, so it's terrible starting out. Maybe this is where actual physical therapy comes into play, or massage therapy, to get me over the initial hump and pain.
I really appreciate your detailed response, input, and suggestions. I read your posts below too, and the one about just doing ab specific isolation once or twice a week sounds like something I could do immediately, since that isn't very time intensive and I won't need to do some crazy 45-minute ab routine if all I want is balanced strength on both my front and back side (not bulky huge abs).
I'll have to give these things a try
Unfortunately when it comes to SMR, if it hurts like that it's a good indication that you need to do it more. I would do it on non-training days if you can but you should consider just getting to the gym 20-30 min's earlier and doing it pre-workout unless time is that much of a barrier. It's one of those things that just requires consistency too.Thanks for reminding me about ab wheel. I did that a couple months ago and same thing, my entire stomach was sore for 1-2 weeks, just from doing about 30 reps of ab roller (3x10).
For sure, you don't need a ton of volume. It's one of those exercises that really engages a lot of the Core musculature to help stabilize the entire movement. It sounds like you may have been extending your back a bit too much maybe.
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Take some Magnesium Citrate, and Potassium. Whala - you be good!
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drewlfitness wrote: »VioletRojo wrote: »Don't stretch just your hamstrings. Tightness in the hamstrings can be caused by any of the muscles in the posterior chain, so you need to stretch your calves, hams, gluts, and erector spinae.
Thanks. I do stretch more than just my hamstrings. I step into a "stretching cage" before each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain.
Yeah, you need to have full sessions of stretching if you are that tight. That's where yoga can come in very handy. Unfortunately, most beginners' classes don't focus that long on hamstrings and (usually) related pelvic tilt issues. There are DVDs or online sessions that you could do (every day, hopefully). If daily, 20-25 minutes may be long enough, and if every other day, I'd do a minimum of 35-40 minute ones. Look for forward bending and hip-opening (that's usually how they are phrased), and make sure to get ones that have a lot of explanation/cueing.
I'd add in the other stretches mentioned, too, no doubt. Maybe pick a 25 minute yoga session and end with those.
I have to stretch my scapulas back that way (so stretching pecs), but the kicker is that too aggressive with using the stabilizer muscles there to do it acts up my (hellacious) nerve back pain condition! So it could be worse than just having to do the stretches
Although you'll be quite sore for a while, yeah! Good luck!
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5 minutes per day stretching may not be enough. Based on your tightness in your hamstrings, a 15-20 daily stretching routine for them may be what you need.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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cafeaulait7 wrote: »drewlfitness wrote: »VioletRojo wrote: »Don't stretch just your hamstrings. Tightness in the hamstrings can be caused by any of the muscles in the posterior chain, so you need to stretch your calves, hams, gluts, and erector spinae.
Thanks. I do stretch more than just my hamstrings. I step into a "stretching cage" before each workout (about 5 days a week), and do about 5 minutes of stretching pulling on different angles for most of my entire body. It's actually quite painful to stretch due to the tightness of my muscles, but I just push through the pain.
Yeah, you need to have full sessions of stretching if you are that tight. That's where yoga can come in very handy. Unfortunately, most beginners' classes don't focus that long on hamstrings and (usually) related pelvic tilt issues. There are DVDs or online sessions that you could do (every day, hopefully). If daily, 20-25 minutes may be long enough, and if every other day, I'd do a minimum of 35-40 minute ones. Look for forward bending and hip-opening (that's usually how they are phrased), and make sure to get ones that have a lot of explanation/cueing.
I'd add in the other stretches mentioned, too, no doubt. Maybe pick a 25 minute yoga session and end with those.
I have to stretch my scapulas back that way (so stretching pecs), but the kicker is that too aggressive with using the stabilizer muscles there to do it acts up my (hellacious) nerve back pain condition! So it could be worse than just having to do the stretches Although you'll be quite sore for a while, yeah! Good luck!
There were a few typos in what you were talking about at the end there, where you say "you'll be quite sore for a while". Are you saying that if I start doing yoga and full stretching routines, that I will be sore?
Yeah, I'm beginning to think that I need to focus a lot more on stretching as well. Meaning, I literally need to spend entire gym outings just doing different stretches/pulls, and foam roller on my back, hams, glutes, etc. It's frustrating because I would rather focus on building my body and muscles, but this could just be part of the process of really getting into excellent physical shape (previously having not been in shape for about 2-3 years). Perhaps if I add long stretching routines more frequently (a few times week I would spend 45+ minutes stretching), that eventually my body would learn not to tighten back up immediately.
Yesterday, I decided to just spend as much time as I wanted stretching and doing foam roller. I ended up doing about 45 minutes of pure stretching, and 30-45 minutes of foam rolling (very painful, but VERY satisfying as in I couldn't believe how messed up and stiff my back is and how the foam roller helped to "open up" my back, at least for a little bit). Today, my muscles are back to being very tight. Every time I bend over to get something, I basically want to hold it because it feels so good to get a little stretch in, but seriously how could I be constantly so tight all the time? I could probably stretch for 10 hours a day and still be tight, although, maybe if I do full stretch routines a few times week, my body will begin to slowly become less tight and stay more loose, instead of just tightening back up immediately.0 -
5 minutes per day stretching may not be enough. Based on your tightness in your hamstrings, a 15-20 daily stretching routine for them may be what you need.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Agreed. Probably more like 2 hours a day of stretching, given how tight I am...0 -
I did mean you'll be sore. That's just because you are so tight and you should push nicely into your stretching in your case. Don't over-push, but work it, even in yoga, yes.
My upper back is similar to what you are talking about. To avoid pain between my scapulas (a condition I have), I have allowed my pecs to become so tight that it is hard to even get them in the right position. It happened gradually, but they are now that tight.
Stretching sessions every day are supposed to help after a while. I was a dancer and know that for splits, etc, it does take weeks to get there. Some people take months. So I'm assuming my shoulders will get there, too... and your hams
I have to strengthen the opposing muscle group, as they are very much too lose. I'm not sure how that works with hamstrings (anyone?), but your pelvic tilt has that sort of element to it. Strengthen the glutes and abs and stretch the hip flexors. That's probably related to your hamstring tightness, so do strengthen the right parts and stretch the right ones as a combined plan. That's what my physical therapist has me doing for my imbalance, and it will take time. Sucks, but it's just another goal 0
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