Strength training for women (Rippetoe article)
jemhh
Posts: 14,261 Member
Mark Rippetoe has a new article about strength training for women. I'm still processing it a bit but this is really interesting: "Most women can do 5 reps on the bench press within 5-7 pounds of their one rep max...95% or perhaps even as much as 96-97% of their 1RM for 5...In contrast, men generally work with sets of 5 about 85-87% of their 1RM."
And also "Sets of 10 reps are as pointless for females as 20s are for males who are trying to get stronger...For women, 10s are the equivalent waste of time if strength is the training objective, and after the initial weeks of training, 5s aren't that much better, because they just aren't heavy enough for her. Sets of 3, or perhaps even 2s, are required to get close enough to a weight that is actually heavy enough to drive a strength adaptation."
And also "Sets of 10 reps are as pointless for females as 20s are for males who are trying to get stronger...For women, 10s are the equivalent waste of time if strength is the training objective, and after the initial weeks of training, 5s aren't that much better, because they just aren't heavy enough for her. Sets of 3, or perhaps even 2s, are required to get close enough to a weight that is actually heavy enough to drive a strength adaptation."
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That totally make sense in terms of benching. I find most women are really comfortable and sudden failure comes quickly.
I know I'm fine- I'm fine I'm fine- and then boom it's gone. And a lot of the women I have talked to this is true as well.
it's why I know i have struggled with going up in weight- you HAVE to have a spotter to do bench training- its' just not the same without it.
The article won't pull up at work for me- but that totally sounds about right.0 -
Interesting. Ladies, do you feel like the same is true about squats and deads, or is this only relevant to bench?0
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Thanks for this. It's a good read.0
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For me, squats are similar to what was described for bench press. Everything is going great and then I'm suddenly wondering if I added the wrong weight to the bar because it seems disproportionately heavier.
I'm not sure about deadlifts. I feel like I haven't pushed as much with those, especially after reading this. I'm on 5/3/1. I did joker sets last week but stopped when I felt like I couldn't do another set of 5. Reading this article, I'm now thinking that my 5s week is probably not a great week for joker sets. I should likely reserve them for my 3s week or 5/3/1 week.0 -
Interesting. For sure true about the bench press.
But sets of 10s being a waste of time, I am not buying it. I have not seen this being true for me, or anyone else. Although perhaps it depends on goals.0 -
Interesting. For sure true about the bench press.
But sets of 10s being a waste of time, I am not buying it. I have not seen this being true for me, or anyone else. Although perhaps it depends on goals.
He specified strength for those.
I do 10s of some exercises, but not my main compounds, for the most part. I've found they work better for me with assistance/accessory exercises.0 -
Interesting. For sure true about the bench press.
But sets of 10s being a waste of time, I am not buying it. I have not seen this being true for me, or anyone else. Although perhaps it depends on goals.
I would mostly agree with that in terms of my big lifts- my accessories I do anywhere from 6-15- and it totally depends on what the goal is that day- I'm a very rehab type mind set right now- and trying to retrain my mechnical fire system- so doing MORE reps is important.
But strength on my compounds- I stay well under 10.Interesting. Ladies, do you feel like the same is true about squats and deads, or is this only relevant to bench?
no- I find I can struggle with a higher weight- and I can struggle 2-3 reps- versus the whole "I"m fine I'm fine I'm fine-and that's it I'm done."0 -
Interesting.
For me... I almost failed 105 on third rep of first set then did rest of sets at 100 for bench, slow but didn't think I was going to have to set it down on me and find a way out. With squats some reps can feel off, but can manage usually, but I haven't done much max rep testing ever so it's hard to say for sure on the percentages. I'm hoping to do 185 on squat and can do 175 for working sets so far. Close then on that so far. Deadlift, 205 was the max for barely three reps last time I tried that. Doing 195 for 4 sets of 3 reps now. Deadlift just feels heavy above 185 but I'm managing so far though going to be a long while before I reach my goal of 225.
To some degree, looks about right in that regard, though I'm sure there are other variables as well and it won't be quite the same for everyone. Also, I look forward to getting to lift at maintenance instead of deficit as that will be a nice change of pace once I get there.
Oh, and I do main lifts at 3-5 reps (per program) and I prefer those with the lower rep range, but I do other lifts at 8-10 reps. Those are things like lat pulldown, dumbbell bench, curls, calf work and such. Some of those the weight increases are 10 lbs or more, so I can focus on getting more reps before trying to increase the weight, such as the cable work and such.0 -
Interesting. For bench reps, proven 1rm is 82.5. I can get two at 80, 3 at 77.5. But a year ago, I could get 4-5 at 52.5 with a max of 55.
When we are working on absolute max strength, either concentric or eccentric, generally I'm working with 4 reps or under for the main movements. I do higher rep work when we are building my work capacity.
As for work capacity, well, my coaches call me a machine. I just keep getting the work done no questions asked.0 -
Very interesting. I've been trying NROLFW for a while now and it does reps of 3x15, and I haven't been happy with my progression. Maybe dropping the reps would help.0
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@blankiefinder - Are you doing stage 1? The first stage is a lot of the higher reps but once you get into the later stages of the book then the rep ranges change. I know stages 4 and 5 had lower rep ranges, for example.0
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I'm working at 3x8 for compound lifts at 85% 1RM with DB, except OH press which is at 75%, because we simply don't have the gear- no rack or spotter. When I do have spotter can do 5x5 at closer to 95%.0
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I end up deadlifting 1.5 body weighty X 3 reps by the end but start on lights x10reps0
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Then you probably aren't working off your actual 1RM....[/quote]
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?0 -
Then you probably aren't working off your actual 1RM....
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?[/quote]
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.0 -
I also agree with the ability to continue to do the eccentric portion of the lift (specifically for me, on squat and bench) after concentric failure.0
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Thanks for that
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This was a really great read.0
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.
Thanks for the link.[/quote]
If what Rippetoe is writing is accurate--that women can do 5 reps at a much higher % of their 1RM, wouldn't that mean that a different formula/calculator is needed for women vs men?0 -
That was an interesting read. Really curious to see how my results will be.0
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Interesting. For sure true about the bench press.
But sets of 10s being a waste of time, I am not buying it. I have not seen this being true for me, or anyone else. Although perhaps it depends on goals.
he's referring to them as a waste of time for building optimal strength...low reps at a high % of your 1 RM is optimal for building strength.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.
Thanks for the link.
If what Rippetoe is writing is accurate--that women can do 5 reps at a much higher % of their 1RM, wouldn't that mean that a different formula/calculator is needed for women vs men?
If this is eventually proven to be true, then indeed a completely different, non-linear formula would be needed. And since Ripp wrote this, I would expect to see a future revision to Starting Strength that has women bench 3x3 (or maybe 3x2) instead of 3x5.0 -
Yeah, this isn't new information to me,or probably to a lot of people, and is a source of frustration as to why there has yet to be a strength program solely geared toward women. Btw, I'm not referring to a strength program geared towards how a woman looks, I'm referring to a program that is solely for the purpose of maximizing the amount of weight a woman can move. Hopefully, with Mark Rippetoe writing about it, there may be one in the pipeline.0
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I've heard this from a lot of places, and to me it's sisscience until I see some actual numbers. I've also seen a lot of similar unsubstantiated information regarding training and birth control.
I personally have not had the experience outlined in the article. While I'm not the strongest woman I do have decent numbers and training experience. If I throw in a 4 or 5RM in a calculator it will come out substantially less than my tested 1RMs.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.
Thanks for the link.
If what Rippetoe is writing is accurate--that women can do 5 reps at a much higher % of their 1RM, wouldn't that mean that a different formula/calculator is needed for women vs men?
If this is eventually proven to be true, then indeed a completely different, non-linear formula would be needed. And since Ripp wrote this, I would expect to see a future revision to Starting Strength that has women bench 3x3 (or maybe 3x2) instead of 3x5.
Maybe I missed it (I read the article between sets this morning), but didn't he say 5x3 was very effective for training women?0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.
Thanks for the link.
If what Rippetoe is writing is accurate--that women can do 5 reps at a much higher % of their 1RM, wouldn't that mean that a different formula/calculator is needed for women vs men?
If this is eventually proven to be true, then indeed a completely different, non-linear formula would be needed. And since Ripp wrote this, I would expect to see a future revision to Starting Strength that has women bench 3x3 (or maybe 3x2) instead of 3x5.
Maybe I missed it (I read the article between sets this morning), but didn't he say 5x3 was very effective for training women?
He does indeed. "For women, 10s are the equivalent waste of time if strength is the training objective, and after the initial weeks of training, 5s aren't that much better, because they just aren't heavy enough for her. Sets of 3, or perhaps even 2s, are required to get close enough to a weight that is actually heavy enough to drive a strength adaptation. And in fact, experience has shown that 5 sets of 3 for women works as well, and for as long, as 3 sets of 5 does for men. Where men will plateau on 3s after a few weeks, women can train productively with this "relatively heavier but really about the same heavy for them" program, for months." -Rippetoe0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »
So how would I work out what my 1RM is without going through all the weights to find the one I stall on? Is there a calculator to work it out ? How do others work it out?
Yes. Here is one: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html
There are others too.
Thanks for the link.
If what Rippetoe is writing is accurate--that women can do 5 reps at a much higher % of their 1RM, wouldn't that mean that a different formula/calculator is needed for women vs men?
If this is eventually proven to be true, then indeed a completely different, non-linear formula would be needed. And since Ripp wrote this, I would expect to see a future revision to Starting Strength that has women bench 3x3 (or maybe 3x2) instead of 3x5.
Maybe I missed it (I read the article between sets this morning), but didn't he say 5x3 was very effective for training women?
I skimmed the article and missed that. So I guess 5x3 will replace the recommended 3x5 in Starting Strength for women then.
And lol at sisscience! Haven't heard that one before.0 -
That advice for women to do 5x3 when they stall on 3x5 is in starting strength, at least the most recent edition. He doesn't go into it much but his article on t-nation basically plagerizes his book. So it's not really new info...he's just pulled it out instead of it being buried in text.
Did he mention the "too bad you can't progress as fast as men, we can't have a multiple orgasm," that is in SS? I found that quite irritating!0
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