Do 5x5 programs work?? Want to increase Bench & DL

FrankWhite27330
FrankWhite27330 Posts: 316 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Would like to increase my bench for reps and deadlift..

Currently banch 225 4xs after warmup and deadlift 315 7xs after warmups..

want that 225 10x and 405 deadlift 3xs should I try 5x5 or try something else

Replies

  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    edited October 2015
    How is your form overall?

    Most 5x5 programs will start at low weight and are really geared toward beginning lifters more than experienced lifters.

    That said, they do work as long as you can keep up the progressive overload. But if you are experienced, which it seems you are, you might want to move beyond a straight 5x5 to something a little more advanced.

    For example, my original move was from Stronglifts to Greyskull LP and I found it to be a good transition. I work with a trainer now doing an upper/lower power/volume split 4x/week and am still seeing gains on this style of program.

    *edited for stupid spelling mistakes.
  • FrankWhite27330
    FrankWhite27330 Posts: 316 Member
    I was told tonight when I benched 225 4xs that I was not using my legs and it looked like I was not exploding up.

    so I was given some pointers and told to squeeze butt and push with legs keep back arched more...
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    Definitely. If you get a bit of an arch in there, no need to go crazy, it transfers the angle of the lift enough to alter the primary muscles in use somewhat. This will give you more power throughout the entire lift.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T9UQ4FBVXI

    Here's Rippetoe talking about the bench form. I think he hits the arch and leg activation around the 13 minute mark.
  • SteveMFP123
    SteveMFP123 Posts: 298 Member
    I'm literally reading about 5x5 stronglifts now. I lost my weight entirely from calorie counting which I kinda regret as I'm still weak and I'd like to change that.
  • CardiLuxe
    CardiLuxe Posts: 89 Member
    Damn that's huge man! I do 3x5 225 then 2x5 205 and end it off with a nice 185x15-20 or two. Works great for me. I'll move up. But that's just me. :P
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    CardiLuxe wrote: »
    Damn that's huge man! I do 3x5 225 then 2x5 205 and end it off with a nice 185x15-20 or two. Works great for me. I'll move up. But that's just me. :P

    Personally, I feel like you've got your set's and reps backward.

    Consider trying 185x15, 205x10, 225x5 or something like that. Odds are you'll see better results in the long run. Get your warm up in there first... if you've got enough left to do a 15 to 20 rep set at the end, you aren't pushing hard enough to see growth that's anywhere near optimal if you are an average person.
  • FrankWhite27330
    FrankWhite27330 Posts: 316 Member
    CardiLuxe wrote: »
    Damn that's huge man! I do 3x5 225 then 2x5 205 and end it off with a nice 185x15-20 or two. Works great for me. I'll move up. But that's just me. :P

    You benchin that weight?
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    edited October 2015
    SteveMFP123 wrote: »
    I'm literally reading about 5x5 stronglifts now. I lost my weight entirely from calorie counting which I kinda regret as I'm still weak and I'd like to change that.

    Stronglifts is a great beginner program, although the power clean can be a bit tricky to master without a coach. Also hard to accomplish without the correct setup and bumper plates.

    I'd highly recommend, unless you have access to an oly gym, that you read starting strength from beginning to end, and then do stronglifts 5x5 with the knowledge gained from Stronglifts. Just my two cents as it will be easier to accomplish in most commercial gyms.

    *edited for more stupid spelling mistakes.
  • CardiLuxe
    CardiLuxe Posts: 89 Member
    FrankWhite27330 wrote: »
    CardiLuxe wrote: »
    Damn that's huge man! I do 3x5 225 then 2x5 205 and end it off with a nice 185x15-20 or two. Works great for me. I'll move up. But that's just me. :P

    You benchin that weight?



    No-no Lol just deadlift.
  • Willbenchforcupcakes
    Willbenchforcupcakes Posts: 4,955 Member
    FrankWhite27330 wrote: »
    CardiLuxe wrote: »
    Damn that's huge man! I do 3x5 225 then 2x5 205 and end it off with a nice 185x15-20 or two. Works great for me. I'll move up. But that's just me. :P

    You benchin that weight?

    She's benching that weight and she is one of the best benchers in the world, and massive props.

  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    5x5 is great but if you want a more intermediate program, Wendler's 5/3/1 is a good option as well. I not quite a noob anymore and I stall on 5x5.
  • klrenn
    klrenn Posts: 245 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    5x5 is great but if you want a more intermediate program, Wendler's 5/3/1 is a good option as well. I not quite a noob anymore and I stall on 5x5.

    are you stalling on all your lifts? I'm stalling on my squats (have deloaded 3 times in the past 6-8 weeks) but not my other lifts...are you going to switch?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    klrenn wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    5x5 is great but if you want a more intermediate program, Wendler's 5/3/1 is a good option as well. I not quite a noob anymore and I stall on 5x5.

    are you stalling on all your lifts? I'm stalling on my squats (have deloaded 3 times in the past 6-8 weeks) but not my other lifts...are you going to switch?

    Yeah, everything. Dead lift not quite as much though. I've also been in a deficit for 7 weeks or so, so it's catching up to me. I'm trying to get into maintenance then a bulk, so I'll probably just see what I can do over the next couple weeks then go back to PHUL
  • FrankWhite27330
    FrankWhite27330 Posts: 316 Member
    thats another point while on a diet eating on a deficit are gains practical anyways

  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    FrankWhite27330 wrote: »
    thats another point while on a diet eating on a deficit are gains practical anyways

    Yes and no. You can potentially gain strength, you won't gain mass unless you're eating at a surplus.
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    5x5 is great but if you want a more intermediate program, Wendler's 5/3/1 is a good option as well. I not quite a noob anymore and I stall on 5x5.

    Wendler's is another great program, but what 5x5 were you doing? Mehdi's Stronglifts 5x5, which is one of the more common, evolves into a 5,3,1 after sufficient stalls if you follow the plan as written.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    5x5 is great but if you want a more intermediate program, Wendler's 5/3/1 is a good option as well. I not quite a noob anymore and I stall on 5x5.

    Wendler's is another great program, but what 5x5 were you doing? Mehdi's Stronglifts 5x5, which is one of the more common, evolves into a 5,3,1 after sufficient stalls if you follow the plan as written.

    Yeah I'm doing Mehdi's. I should look into that. I'm not really planning on being on it for much longer.
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    He added it into the android app about a year ago, but I think maybe you had to pay extra for it. I haven't used it in a while so I'm not even sure how the app is laid out any longer. I know that he was changing the program to add accessory exercises such as pull ups, dips and other things like that pretty frequently for a while there. I think he may have even added in some optional "finishers" at one point. His program is pretty fluid as his clientele and experience with training others grows.
  • FrankWhite27330
    FrankWhite27330 Posts: 316 Member
    well I will work on my form... and eat heavy the day before next time. I have not been focusing on increasing my weights until this week.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    He added it into the android app about a year ago, but I think maybe you had to pay extra for it. I haven't used it in a while so I'm not even sure how the app is laid out any longer. I know that he was changing the program to add accessory exercises such as pull ups, dips and other things like that pretty frequently for a while there. I think he may have even added in some optional "finishers" at one point. His program is pretty fluid as his clientele and experience with training others grows.

    I kind of glanced over that stuff but I was just starting so didn't really need it at the time. I also cut out all accessory work so wasn't concerned with that either. Glad I ran the program though, wish I had done it before Wendler's. Whoops.
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    I highly recommend a progressive overload, no matter what your program. If you can't continually add 5lbs, add 2.5, if you can't add 2.5 go to the hardware store and get some big washers that fit the bar and stack 1lb of those until you get to higher increments. Progressive overload and adaptation are key in strength programming.
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    He added it into the android app about a year ago, but I think maybe you had to pay extra for it. I haven't used it in a while so I'm not even sure how the app is laid out any longer. I know that he was changing the program to add accessory exercises such as pull ups, dips and other things like that pretty frequently for a while there. I think he may have even added in some optional "finishers" at one point. His program is pretty fluid as his clientele and experience with training others grows.

    I kind of glanced over that stuff but I was just starting so didn't really need it at the time. I also cut out all accessory work so wasn't concerned with that either. Glad I ran the program though, wish I had done it before Wendler's. Whoops.

    Meh, you started and kept going, right? That's the important part. Doesn't matter how you started or what you started with.
  • eatgoodeat
    eatgoodeat Posts: 180 Member
    @BecomingBane good advice here, thank you.

    I wanted to ask you what your recommendation would be for this situation:
    I'm a complete noob and following mehdi's 5x5 and am in month 5, I was reading that when your squat gets to x1.5 bw it's time to switch to madcow 5x5.

    I don't want to be presumptuous and will be in a deficit for quite some time still but my progress has been linear thus far for squats and deadlifts and am about 40lbs away from that bench mark of x1.5

    problem is my bench is lagging and progress there has been a tougher fight

    my questions is do I run 2 programs simultaneously for the lagging upper body?
  • DaddieCat
    DaddieCat Posts: 3,643 Member
    edited October 2015
    No.... rest and recovery is just as important as the work you are putting in. You can pretty much expect one lift to always lag and be "harder" ... that's pretty much genetics.

    But, I would look at a few different things.
    A) How is your bench form? do you arch or not arch? do you have good leg-drive and placement? Do you stall in the top or bottom of the motion? and How wide is your grip?

    B ) Have you actually stalled and or de-loaded as instructed in the program? If so, how many times?


    Based on those two things I would see what I could offer to assist, but my first suggestion is going to be push-ups. If you can handle them, I'd superset them in between bench sets, and just do one set to failure. If you can do more than 20, add some weight, just 5 lbs, and progress as if it were a normal lift. You could also do any variation of a chest dip, but I'd not superset that in. I'd use chest dips as a "finisher" ... do 3-5 sets to failure, once you can do 20, add weight.

    Doing arm work might be beneficial, but I'd more likely recommend the above as I think Bench should be a pec driven exercise and work the arms secondarily, this is the benefit of the arch in form, it shifts the motion into your pecs more effectively, leaving the bones in your arms to bear the weight and providing a more effective lever arm for moving the load.

    Personally, for a complete n00b, I'd run Medhi's program until you completely stalled out on all three lifts. A beginner 5x5 is a great tool, especially when you have at least a years worth of n00b gainz to get through. Odds are you've still got some time in you before you truly plateau that program. but Madcow would be a good intermediate program as well as the ones I listed earlier. I'm a fan of beginners being patient in the beginning and not program hopping.. it might not feel as rewarding now, but it will later on in your development.

    *edited to get rid of an accidental emoji. edited again to add the last paragraph
  • eatgoodeat
    eatgoodeat Posts: 180 Member
    edited October 2015
    A) the actual first training video I watched was the one that you posted for form advice, cheers on that one. Following that is what I've been using as a form guide. Arch and a little bit wider than shoulder width to balance the bar. The stalling gets the most intensive in the 4th rep at the bottom. I struggle in the 4th+5th reps in each set.

    B ) I guess I haven't stalled to the point where the program has deloaded me for these current sessions, there was an initial deload in my first couple months but I pushed through those. My bench is at 106lb for this week. I have 2 more tries at this weight before it deloads me.

    I started adding some push-ups to my regime but nothing structured. I will try your training suggestions. I was reading through a thread where @Iron_Miss_Canada posted about doing isometric inverted rows to help with proper form, I'd like to try those as well.

    I think Mehdi's app automatically switches you a 3x5 after you hit a certain point, I can't remember if it had to do with weight progression or times deloaded or both. :neutral: I'll have to see again what that's about.

    I think my main concern is with the acceleration on squats and deads is that I want to continue to keep developing those lifts to their potential and if programming needs to be changed to accommodate that, I'd like to know the options and know when to consider them.
    BecomingBane wrote: »
    Personally, for a complete n00b, I'd run Medhi's program until you completely stalled out on all three lifts. A beginner 5x5 is a great tool, especially when you have at least a years worth of n00b gainz to get through. Odds are you've still got some time in you before you truly plateau that program. but Madcow would be a good intermediate program as well as the ones I listed earlier. I'm a fan of beginners being patient in the beginning and not program hopping.. it might not feel as rewarding now, but it will later on in your development.

    I feel the same way about not program hopping and is not something I want to do. It will be cool to get to a 300lb squat my first year lifting, here's to good efforts and grinding away at it!

    Thanks again for your help :) much appreciated.

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