Fat shaming can kill?
GiddyupTim
Posts: 2,819 Member
Florida State researchers are reporting that they have data to suggest that people who experience weight discrimination die earlier.
Yeah. Horrible!
https://www.fsu.edu/indexTOFStory.html?lead.weight
Yeah. Horrible!
https://www.fsu.edu/indexTOFStory.html?lead.weight
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Replies
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I read the summary but couldn't tell how they were determining that someone had experienced weight discrimination. I'm willing to bet that most overweight individuals have experienced some form of "weightism" (ugh! that word!) in their lives, some forms more blatant than others.0
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Or the apparent effects of their mental state regarding their perception of supposed discrimination.Now they've found that people who report being subjected to weight discrimination also have a greater risk of dying. Not because they may be overweight, but because of the apparent effects of the discrimination.0 -
Left-handers have shorter lives, too. The speculation is we have more accidents.
Alphas have more heart attacks than betas. It doesn't pay to be pack leader.
Stress kills.
https://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_mcgonigal_how_to_make_stress_your_friend
But thinking differently about stress removes the threat.0 -
It doesn't really surprise me. Stress and negativity can cause or worsen a myriad of health issues, and prevent people from effectively dealing with their problems.0
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Ugh. The sad thing is that those that perpetrate the discrimination will dismiss the study by claiming that the people chose to be overweight.0
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Or dismiss it because it's based on self-reported discrimination of people who almost certainly experience a higher degree of stress than those who don't care to report even if they believe they've experienced that discrimination.Ugh. The sad thing is that those that perpetrate the discrimination will dismiss the study by claiming that the people chose to be overweight.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Or dismiss it because it's based on self-reported discrimination of people who almost certainly experience a higher degree of stress than those who don't care to report even if they believe they've experienced that discrimination.Ugh. The sad thing is that those that perpetrate the discrimination will dismiss the study by claiming that the people chose to be overweight.
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The world is in a sad state when we don't believe that people who get massive disrespect lead less happy lives (not saying anyone here does it, but rather some disgusting corners of the web where fat haters congregate.)0
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I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't read like they proved anything. They cannot say with definitive proof that fat shaming is what killed these people. All their research said was that the people that are fat shamed are more likely to become obese. The obesity related problems are what likely killed them not the fat shaming.
Now if they want to make a correlation to fat shaming leading to an increase of weight for an overweight person leading to obesity I can see that. Even a correlation between Fat shaming and depression.
The fat shaming in it self doesn't not cause death.0 -
Yeah, them dying sooner couldn't have anything to do with their obesity...
Having said that, yes fat shaming is a thing, and yes it should stop.0 -
Char231023 wrote: »I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't read like they proved anything. They cannot say with definitive proof that fat shaming is what killed these people. All their research said was that the people that are fat shamed are more likely to become obese. The obesity related problems are what likely killed them not the fat shaming.
Now if they want to make a correlation to fat shaming leading to an increase of weight for an overweight person leading to obesity I can see that. Even a correlation between Fat shaming and depression.
The fat shaming in it self doesn't not cause death.
Another classic case of correlation does not equal causation.0 -
Florida State researchers are reporting that they have data to suggest that people who experience weight discrimination die earlier.
Yeah. Horrible!
https://www.fsu.edu/indexTOFStory.html?lead.weight
Unfortunately we also die from the weight. Besides suicide, how do we determine if the cause of death; is from the discrimination & not the weight itself or the physical illnesses, that the weight caused or even the mental stress, that leads to physical illnesses; that the discrimination causes? Was the physical illness that resulted in the death, caused by the weight or the stress or both? Until we can differentiate between these 3 other causes of death, we can only be sure about suicide; as being the cause of death by discrimination & that is only if a note is left or a credible witness, informs the authorities that that is what; the victim told them prior to their suicide.0 -
Char231023 wrote: »I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't read like they proved anything. They cannot say with definitive proof that fat shaming is what killed these people. All their research said was that the people that are fat shamed are more likely to become obese. The obesity related problems are what likely killed them not the fat shaming.
Now if they want to make a correlation to fat shaming leading to an increase of weight for an overweight person leading to obesity I can see that. Even a correlation between Fat shaming and depression.
The fat shaming in it self doesn't not cause death.
Exactly. If you took two groups, one skinny and one fat, and fat shamed them both equally which group would have more health related issues from obesity? Also discrimination is the wrong word to use here. It isn't discrimination when you point out that someone is making unhealthy choices.
I hate it when I see smokers forced to smoke outside. Such terrible discrimination shouldn't be allowed.0 -
Look, most of us have experienced fat shaming, so we know it's bad. But at best, we're preaching to the choir, and at worst, we're promoting a victim mentality that that allows people to justify their obesity. Yeah, fat shaming does make people want to stay fat. It did me. But I made the choice to overcome that, and everyone else has that choice, too.0
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How does being subjected to shame make you want to maintain the status for which you are being shamed? That sounds more like rationalization than causation.jennifer_417 wrote: »Look, most of us have experienced fat shaming, so we know it's bad. But at best, we're preaching to the choir, and at worst, we're promoting a victim mentality that that allows people to justify their obesity. Yeah, fat shaming does make people want to stay fat. It did me. But I made the choice to overcome that, and everyone else has that choice, too.0 -
Char231023 wrote: »I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't read like they proved anything. They cannot say with definitive proof that fat shaming is what killed these people. All their research said was that the people that are fat shamed are more likely to become obese. The obesity related problems are what likely killed them not the fat shaming.
Now if they want to make a correlation to fat shaming leading to an increase of weight for an overweight person leading to obesity I can see that. Even a correlation between Fat shaming and depression.
The fat shaming in it self doesn't not cause death.
Exactly. If you took two groups, one skinny and one fat, and fat shamed them both equally which group would have more health related issues from obesity? Also discrimination is the wrong word to use here. It isn't discrimination when you point out that someone is making unhealthy choices.
I hate it when I see smokers forced to smoke outside. Such terrible discrimination shouldn't be allowed.
It isn't discrimination if you care about someone & attempt to help them lose weight. It's discrimination, if you shame them for their weight.
Unlike chewing tobacco, smoking tobacco can affect someone else. The tobacco isn't being banned, the method of using it is.0 -
MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »Char231023 wrote: »I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't read like they proved anything. They cannot say with definitive proof that fat shaming is what killed these people. All their research said was that the people that are fat shamed are more likely to become obese. The obesity related problems are what likely killed them not the fat shaming.
Now if they want to make a correlation to fat shaming leading to an increase of weight for an overweight person leading to obesity I can see that. Even a correlation between Fat shaming and depression.
The fat shaming in it self doesn't not cause death.
Exactly. If you took two groups, one skinny and one fat, and fat shamed them both equally which group would have more health related issues from obesity? Also discrimination is the wrong word to use here. It isn't discrimination when you point out that someone is making unhealthy choices.
I hate it when I see smokers forced to smoke outside. Such terrible discrimination shouldn't be allowed.
It isn't discrimination if you care about someone & attempt to help them lose weight. It's discrimination, if you shame them for their weight.
Unlike chewing tobacco, smoking tobacco can affect someone else. The tobacco isn't being banned, the method of using it is.
I disagree. Their weight is a result of their own actions. This is not discrimination. Also overweight people affect others through the increased cost of health care. Food isn't being shamed, the method of the overuse of food is.
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MondayJune22nd2015 wrote: »Florida State researchers are reporting that they have data to suggest that people who experience weight discrimination die earlier.
Yeah. Horrible!
https://www.fsu.edu/indexTOFStory.html?lead.weight
Unfortunately we also die from the weight. Besides suicide, how do we determine if the cause of death; is from the discrimination & not the weight itself or the physical illnesses, that the weight caused or even the mental stress, that leads to physical illnesses; that the discrimination causes? Was the physical illness that resulted in the death, caused by the weight or the stress or both? Until we can differentiate between these 3 other causes of death, we can only be sure about suicide; as being the cause of death by discrimination & that is only if a note is left or a credible witness, informs the authorities that that is what; the victim told them prior to their suicide.
Um.....There are statistical methods that can account for possible other contributing factors, such as BMI, smoking, region, etc. Those methods pretty much correct for those things and take them out of the equation. They are not perfect. But, they are pretty good.
The press release cited above clearly states that the researchers said they used those methods to account for BMI. So, what is your point?
The study clearly says 'all things being equal, as much as we can make them, which is not perfect but pretty good, our data suggests that people who experience weight discrimination die earlier.'
Now, that might be because stress wears you down. It might be because getting discriminated against causes you to get depressed, so some commit suicide. And, it might be because the discrimination extends to employment, which means you don't get as good a job, which means, perhaps, that your health care suffers.
But the release says the study accounted for BMI, and that means that their evidence shows that when BMI is equal the person who experiences weight discrimination (and/or fat-shaming) has a greater risk of dying sooner than the person who does not.0 -
CICO + discrimination = [Your Weight]?0
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People see extremely overweight as being lazy, lacking in willpower, judgement and self motivation
Discuss...0 -
I wonder if the three co-authors are fat.0
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jennifer_417 wrote: »Yeah, them dying sooner couldn't have anything to do with their obesity...
Having said that, yes fat shaming is a thing, and yes it should stop.
I agree! And furthermore... fat shaming, thin shaming, bullying, bald shaming, gender shaming, persecution for belief systems, disability shaming. I'm sorry but no one can predict how soon or for what reasons a person will die. Death comes like a thief in the night. So if me and 250 other folks are on a plane and pilot happens to be over-weight and was discriminated against... should I be worried that he'll suffer a pre-mature death, and take all of us down with him or her? I don't think so. This world is too F-ing sensitive and politically correct. If I am obese chances are I have medical issues that I may or may not be aware of. That might kill me earlier or maybe not. It's *kitten* science and a *kitten* study. Everyone is discriminated against at some point for one reason or the other. Yes, the victim mentality has to stop. The "I'm overweight (or African American, or Chinese, or I wear glasses, or I stutter" feel bad for me and perpetuate my issues... it has to stop. If you're too fat and you feel shamed, that's your issue in your head. If you're too thin and you feel shamed, that's your issue in your own head. If you're in this life for yourself and you don't care what anyone else thinks, chances are you might live a long and fulfilling life. Or maybe not. Ugh... I am getting off track I know. I'm sick and tired of the obese vs. thin thing. I am not politically correct, I call it like I see it, people love me and hate me for that at the same time and I don't really give a *kitten* either way. As a result of this study I am sure people will run to their primary for meds... because they were shamed... and don't want to die prematurely. The doctors in their infinite wisdom will be more than happy to prescribe a pill to make them feel better rather than start a sensible nutritional plan and recommend a good therapist. The med will result in a side effect that will take another med to resolve. The person will ultimately die when they were supposed... you know, the grand plan... and in the meantime the government, medical industry and big pharma will have reaped benefits from the ripple effects of a study done in Florida of all places. I love Florida mind you but really? fast food nation speaks! aarrrrgghhhh.... don't mind me
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Parenting is associated with unhappiness. Married men live longer than single. Single women are healthier and live longer.0
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"In both samples, the researchers accounted for BMI, subjective health, disease burden, depressive symptoms, smoking history, and physical activity as indicators of mortality risk, but the association with weight discrimination remained."DeguelloTex wrote: »
Or the apparent effects of their mental state regarding their perception of supposed discrimination.Now they've found that people who report being subjected to weight discrimination also have a greater risk of dying. Not because they may be overweight, but because of the apparent effects of the discrimination.
Accounting for subjective health and depressive symptoms would mitigate some of the issues of perception, though obviously not clear it.0 -
"In both samples, the researchers accounted for BMI, subjective health, disease burden, depressive symptoms, smoking history, and physical activity as indicators of mortality risk, but the association with weight discrimination remained."DeguelloTex wrote: »
Or the apparent effects of their mental state regarding their perception of supposed discrimination.Now they've found that people who report being subjected to weight discrimination also have a greater risk of dying. Not because they may be overweight, but because of the apparent effects of the discrimination.
Accounting for subjective health and depressive symptoms would mitigate some of the issues of perception, though obviously not clear it.
Did they discount for socio-economic factors too?0 -
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^ Okay, rabbitjb. I'll bite. The release does not say that they "discounted" for social and economic factors. Why? You think that with a group of 18,000 subjects, they only recruited the rich? Or only recruited the poor?0
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2 things:
1) Correlation != causation. People who lead unhealthy lifestyles die early. We know this.
2) The methodology of this "study" is a joke because it relies 100% on a questionnaire. Think about it: Who is more likely to claim that they've experienced "weight discrimination"? A person who was obese but took control of the situation and decided to live a healthy lifestyle, or someone who spent their lives looking for excuses? Which of these 2 groups are more likely to die early?
There's no science here, just a weak correlation based on bad, anecdotal evidence.
I'm a professionally trained researcher, and wouldn't use this "study" to line a birdcage.When people eat the same, weigh the same, and live the same, as much as that can be created from the data, those who are discriminated against die earlier.
No, it shows that those who claim to be discriminated against may be more likely to die earlier, which is not at all the same thing.0 -
^ Okay, rabbitjb. I'll bite. The release does not say that they "discounted" for social and economic factors. Why? You think that with a group of 18,000 subjects, they only recruited the rich? Or only recruited the poor?
I think that socio-economic factors play a huge part in morbidity rates
And also in obesity rates
I just find it interesting0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How does being subjected to shame make you want to maintain the status for which you are being shamed? That sounds more like rationalization than causation.jennifer_417 wrote: »Look, most of us have experienced fat shaming, so we know it's bad. But at best, we're preaching to the choir, and at worst, we're promoting a victim mentality that that allows people to justify their obesity. Yeah, fat shaming does make people want to stay fat. It did me. But I made the choice to overcome that, and everyone else has that choice, too.
Most psychological studies on shame show it is appallingly poor at changing the behavior it targets. What it tends to do is drive people to hide the behavior from others.0
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