News report = red meat and processed meats cause cancer
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I try to only eat game meat (I'm a hunter) or animals I have raised myself. We raise several dozen broiler chickens every year. The game meat is amazing because it is very low in fat and very high in protein, plus you know what your eating and where it comes from!
We eat a fair share of game meat as well. I wish there was data on whether it has a lower correlation to disease than commercial red meat. I've never been able to find any.
good luck finding funding for that one...I can't think of many regulatory agencies or else who would want to encourage hunting as a replacement for commercial red meat.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I try to only eat game meat (I'm a hunter) or animals I have raised myself. We raise several dozen broiler chickens every year. The game meat is amazing because it is very low in fat and very high in protein, plus you know what your eating and where it comes from!
We eat a fair share of game meat as well. I wish there was data on whether it has a lower correlation to disease than commercial red meat. I've never been able to find any.
good luck finding funding for that one...I can't think of many regulatory agencies or else who would want to encourage hunting as a replacement for commercial red meat.
Maybe the NRA or Remington would be willing to fund this study?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Do you disagree?
Contrary to traditional dietary advice, almost all long term studies done on saturated fat haven't shown any reason to avoid it. This is actually old news.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
But the information has slowly been trickling into the mainstream and gaining more traction in the media. So now political organizations like WHO need to find other reasons for us to avoid the evils of eating meat. The fact that they tried to lump eating red meat in with smoking is absolutely hilarious.
None of these epidemiology studies performed are actually controlling for all possible confounders. And I wonder what real mortality difference is caused by that 1% increase in risk of colon cancer (if it's even caused by red meat). I would be much more interested in the risk of metastatic colon CA that leads to death versus simply needing a polyp removed.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Do you disagree?
Contrary to traditional dietary advice, almost all long term studies done on saturated fat haven't shown any reason to avoid it. This is actually old news.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
But the information has slowly been trickling into the mainstream and gaining more traction in the media. So now political organizations like WHO need to find other reasons for us to avoid the evils of eating meat. The fact that they tried to lump eating red meat in with smoking is absolutely hilarious.
None of these epidemiology studies performed are actually controlling for all possible confounders. And I wonder what real mortality difference is caused by that 1% increase in risk of colon cancer (if it's even caused by red meat). I would be much more interested in the risk of metastatic colon CA that leads to death versus simply needing a polyp removed.
I don't agree or disagree because I never thought saturated fats needed vindication. I'm still not really sure of your point, but your post has a conspiracy theory tone so nevermind.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Do you disagree?
Contrary to traditional dietary advice, almost all long term studies done on saturated fat haven't shown any reason to avoid it. This is actually old news.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-dietary-saturated-fat-increase.html
But the information has slowly been trickling into the mainstream and gaining more traction in the media. So now political organizations like WHO need to find other reasons for us to avoid the evils of eating meat. The fact that they tried to lump eating red meat in with smoking is absolutely hilarious.
None of these epidemiology studies performed are actually controlling for all possible confounders. And I wonder what real mortality difference is caused by that 1% increase in risk of colon cancer (if it's even caused by red meat). I would be much more interested in the risk of metastatic colon CA that leads to death versus simply needing a polyp removed.
part of the problem is who is "fighting" with you on sat fats. A lot of that comes with support from the Paleo crowd, which then gets it dismissed by a lot people.0 -
Here's something on the saturated fat issue: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/
So it's not quite the "vindication" that was reported. It is generally true that the studies that are most relied on for this are long-term epidemiological studies showing correlations and there are other reasons for correlation beyond an actual casual effect. However, the same sorts of shortcomings (if one sees it as a shortcoming) are true about most dietary stuff.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Here's something on the saturated fat issue: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/
So it's not quite the "vindication" that was reported. It is generally true that the studies that are most relied on for this are long-term epidemiological studies showing correlations and there are other reasons for correlation beyond an actual casual effect. However, the same sorts of shortcomings (if one sees it as a shortcoming) are true about most dietary stuff.
From what I've seen of various reviews of the existing literature, the problem isn't so much saturated fat increasing heart disease, but that people tend to using saturated fats tend to replace polyunsaturated fats in their diet with them. This lack of polyunsaturated fats may be the reason that saturated fat appears associated with heart disease in epidemiological studies.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Here's something on the saturated fat issue: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/
So it's not quite the "vindication" that was reported. It is generally true that the studies that are most relied on for this are long-term epidemiological studies showing correlations and there are other reasons for correlation beyond an actual casual effect. However, the same sorts of shortcomings (if one sees it as a shortcoming) are true about most dietary stuff.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I've always heard. That if you replace some of your saturated fat with unsaturated fat you will reduce your risk of heart disease. I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".
LOL, were you born yesterday? Seriously, I was taught the lipid hypothesis in medical school. And that wasn't that long ago!
It's funny that most recommendations now say to replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, even though you could get the exact same benefit by replacing carbs with unsaturated fat. Unsaturated fat is healthy. It's good for you no matter what you replace with it. But dietary recommendations just can't get over saturated fat.
Now that all the studies vindicating sat fat as the top source of of heart disease have finally had a major impact on global diets, the WHO had to find some other reason to demonize red meat.
BTW, the majority of the quality studies in the WHO's meta-analysis did not find any correlation between red meat and cancer. 7/15 did find a weak correlation. But that's pretty weak given how many possible confounders there are. And once again, colon CA here could simply mean removing a polyp. The increased risk of death is probably insignificant.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".
LOL, were you born yesterday? Seriously, I was taught the lipid hypothesis in medical school. And that wasn't that long ago!
It's funny that most recommendations now say to replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, even though you could get the exact same benefit by replacing carbs with unsaturated fat. Unsaturated fat is healthy. It's good for you no matter what you replace with it. But dietary recommendations just can't get over saturated fat.
Now that all the studies vindicating sat fat as the top source of of heart disease have finally had a major impact on global diets, the WHO had to find some other reason to demonize red meat.
BTW, the majority of the quality studies in the WHO's meta-analysis did not find any correlation between red meat and cancer. 7/15 did find a weak correlation. But that's pretty weak given how many possible confounders there are. And once again, colon CA here could simply mean removing a polyp. The increased risk of death is probably insignificant.
Red meat was listed as a category 2A. Processed meat is category 1. No one is debating the IARC's standards for labeling possible carcinogen are low.
They also did not make the recommendations based purely on meta-analysis of epidemiological data. They also had animal models for various compounds found in red and processed meat.
I'd also ask, will replacing any carb what-so-ever with any unsaturated fat what-so-ever have that health impact? What about replacing fiber (a carb) with monounsaturated (I won't even be underhanded and talk about unsaturated trans fat)?
I'd also like to know, what is the end game of vilifying red meat in a smear campaign? Will getting people to stop eating it make agenda 21 real? Will it let China conquer the US by decoupling oil prices from the USD and causing crude to be sold in Yuan?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".
LOL, were you born yesterday? Seriously, I was taught the lipid hypothesis in medical school. And that wasn't that long ago!
It's funny that most recommendations now say to replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, even though you could get the exact same benefit by replacing carbs with unsaturated fat. Unsaturated fat is healthy. It's good for you no matter what you replace with it. But dietary recommendations just can't get over saturated fat.
Now that all the studies vindicating sat fat as the top source of of heart disease have finally had a major impact on global diets, the WHO had to find some other reason to demonize red meat.
BTW, the majority of the quality studies in the WHO's meta-analysis did not find any correlation between red meat and cancer. 7/15 did find a weak correlation. But that's pretty weak given how many possible confounders there are. And once again, colon CA here could simply mean removing a polyp. The increased risk of death is probably insignificant.
Red meat was listed as a category 2A. Processed meat is category 1. No one is debating the IARC's standards for labeling possible carcinogen are low.
They also did not make the recommendations based purely on meta-analysis of epidemiological data. They also had animal models for various compounds found in red and processed meat.
I'd also ask, will replacing any carb what-so-ever with any unsaturated fat what-so-ever have that health impact? What about replacing fiber (a carb) with monounsaturated (I won't even be underhanded and talk about unsaturated trans fat)?
I'd also like to know, what is the end game of vilifying red meat in a smear campaign? Will getting people to stop eating it make agenda 21 real? Will it let China conquer the US by decoupling oil prices from the USD and causing crude to be sold in Yuan?
I'm not that familiar with the animal model studies the WHO referenced. But most such studies done with animals use extremely high doses of whatever is being tested and don't always reflect reality.
Your question about any carb and any unsaturated fat is too open ended. In general, calorie for calorie, most unsaturated fats are going to be significantly better for your cholesterol levels than most carbs (not including fruits and veggies here). But I'm sure there are plenty of caveats.
In regard to WHO, it's a political organization that is much more concerned about global issues than any one individual's health. Their main concerns are the environment and feeding an ever growing population. Red meat is considered bad for the environment and extremely wasteful.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".
LOL, were you born yesterday? Seriously, I was taught the lipid hypothesis in medical school. And that wasn't that long ago!
It's funny that most recommendations now say to replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, even though you could get the exact same benefit by replacing carbs with unsaturated fat. Unsaturated fat is healthy. It's good for you no matter what you replace with it. But dietary recommendations just can't get over saturated fat.
Now that all the studies vindicating sat fat as the top source of of heart disease have finally had a major impact on global diets, the WHO had to find some other reason to demonize red meat.
BTW, the majority of the quality studies in the WHO's meta-analysis did not find any correlation between red meat and cancer. 7/15 did find a weak correlation. But that's pretty weak given how many possible confounders there are. And once again, colon CA here could simply mean removing a polyp. The increased risk of death is probably insignificant.
Red meat was listed as a category 2A. Processed meat is category 1. No one is debating the IARC's standards for labeling possible carcinogen are low.
They also did not make the recommendations based purely on meta-analysis of epidemiological data. They also had animal models for various compounds found in red and processed meat.
I'd also ask, will replacing any carb what-so-ever with any unsaturated fat what-so-ever have that health impact? What about replacing fiber (a carb) with monounsaturated (I won't even be underhanded and talk about unsaturated trans fat)?
I'd also like to know, what is the end game of vilifying red meat in a smear campaign? Will getting people to stop eating it make agenda 21 real? Will it let China conquer the US by decoupling oil prices from the USD and causing crude to be sold in Yuan?
I'm not that familiar with the animal model studies the WHO referenced. But most such studies done with animals use extremely high doses of whatever is being tested and don't always reflect reality.
Your question about any carb and any unsaturated fat is too open ended. In general, calorie for calorie, most unsaturated fats are going to be significantly better for your cholesterol levels than most carbs (not including fruits and veggies here). But I'm sure there are plenty of caveats.
In regard to WHO, it's a political organization that is much more concerned about global issues than any one individual's health. Their main concerns are the environment and feeding an ever growing population. Red meat is considered bad for the environment and extremely wasteful.
If their IARC recommendations were based on feeding a global population in the face of environmental concerns, why would they give glyphosate a 2A carcinogen rating? Its use in American farming does around the carbon equivalent of taking 8 million cars off the road while increasing crop yields.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I think that is the recommendation from health agencies. And hardly seems like that something that would need vindication. It's not like they are saying "eat no saturated fat".
LOL, were you born yesterday? Seriously, I was taught the lipid hypothesis in medical school. And that wasn't that long ago!
It's funny that most recommendations now say to replace saturated fat with unsaturated fat, even though you could get the exact same benefit by replacing carbs with unsaturated fat. Unsaturated fat is healthy. It's good for you no matter what you replace with it. But dietary recommendations just can't get over saturated fat.
Now that all the studies vindicating sat fat as the top source of of heart disease have finally had a major impact on global diets, the WHO had to find some other reason to demonize red meat.
BTW, the majority of the quality studies in the WHO's meta-analysis did not find any correlation between red meat and cancer. 7/15 did find a weak correlation. But that's pretty weak given how many possible confounders there are. And once again, colon CA here could simply mean removing a polyp. The increased risk of death is probably insignificant.
Red meat was listed as a category 2A. Processed meat is category 1. No one is debating the IARC's standards for labeling possible carcinogen are low.
They also did not make the recommendations based purely on meta-analysis of epidemiological data. They also had animal models for various compounds found in red and processed meat.
I'd also ask, will replacing any carb what-so-ever with any unsaturated fat what-so-ever have that health impact? What about replacing fiber (a carb) with monounsaturated (I won't even be underhanded and talk about unsaturated trans fat)?
I'd also like to know, what is the end game of vilifying red meat in a smear campaign? Will getting people to stop eating it make agenda 21 real? Will it let China conquer the US by decoupling oil prices from the USD and causing crude to be sold in Yuan?
I'm not that familiar with the animal model studies the WHO referenced. But most such studies done with animals use extremely high doses of whatever is being tested and don't always reflect reality.
Your question about any carb and any unsaturated fat is too open ended. In general, calorie for calorie, most unsaturated fats are going to be significantly better for your cholesterol levels than most carbs (not including fruits and veggies here). But I'm sure there are plenty of caveats.
In regard to WHO, it's a political organization that is much more concerned about global issues than any one individual's health. Their main concerns are the environment and feeding an ever growing population. Red meat is considered bad for the environment and extremely wasteful.
If their IARC recommendations were based on feeding a global population in the face of environmental concerns, why would they give glyphosate a 2A carcinogen rating? Its use in American farming does around the carbon equivalent of taking 8 million cars off the road while increasing crop yields.
Maybe it's definitely a carcinogen but they downgraded it to level 2A
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