It's only "Natural" and the FDA wants your opinion!
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3dogsrunning wrote: »catscats222 wrote: »frozen chicken needs a thickener?
in dairy products you know to look for it, but in CHICKEN?
Hasn't that already been explained? The flash freezing/keeping shape?
Yeah... I did say that earlier, but I also said it was a guess, so glad to have it confirmed.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/pdf/ehp0109-000983.pdf
Above is a PDF of different studies made on carageenan and the effects caused by it. Peer reviewed studies are not out there that I can find, and why would they be? The FDA claims that there is no problem using the additive, why would anyone do a peer review on it if the FDA says it's ok?
Studies on the effects of the additive are there and the FDA is now recognizing there may be problems for people consuming additives and proper labeling. This is so that we as consumers can make informed decisions on what we are buying for our families and selves.
Anyone who doesn't have a problem with ER visits or any other problems regarding additives in food will never understand what we go through and no-one should have to give you a peer review backing up our claims to what we go through and the pain we suffer. It is just not going to happen until these additives are truly recognized for what they are.
Because any respectable research is published in peer reviewed journals at some point. There doesn't have to be a claim from the government of something being unsafe submit your research to a peer reviewed journal. When I was a physics undergrad my Thesis was peer reviewed (everyone with a passing grade got the same deal), and it was on a topic that wasn't dangerous at all. There's peer reviewed studies on what the different frequencies a cat purrs at mean, there are peer reviewed studies on if wearing a tin foil hat really blocks out spy satellites. There's peer reviewed studies on just about everything.
People who do studies and refuse to publish them in peer reviewed journals are generally scared of being exposed.
I'm not here to argue with you, if you aren't interested then just get off the thread? This is for those who have interest in carageenan and it doesn't matter to me that you are so focused on peers regarding it. I will say once more, I have a horrible problem with carageen as do many many others out there. We need help in identifying the products that are hurting us so that we can feel safe to eat food and know that we won't be in bed for three days with extreme stomach pain and diahhrea. I am so happy you don't have problems with that.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I'm good, at least as far as this is concerned. I've not seen any conclusive science that proves that it's bad, and much that proves that it's ok. I understand that it's considered as needing more research, but until such a time as I see some convincing science, I'm going to continue doing what I do.
More power to you, though. Especially if it causes you health problems. Almost everything causes someone health problems... we can't ban everything due to a small percentage of the population. We can, on the other hand, label it so that consumers can make their own decisions based on their own personal health needs.
Yes, sure, but the FDA is now recognizing that carageenan is a problem additive in foods. It's banned in other countries and should be banned here. The problem with not banning an ingredient that causes health problems (even to a small percentage of people-but the list is growing) means that we suffer from the ingredient added to our foods, and it isn't needed at all. It's a useless ingredient, if we could just go back to foods that are as close to natural as possible a huge amount of the people who have cancer would go way down in counts. Also, part of the problem is some manufacturer's are not labeling it, even though they are by law required to. So people like me eat something that we think is safe and suddenly we have extreme pain in the stomach and digestive tract with then causes a lot of other problems down below. It's painful to say the least.
I'm glad you don't seem to have a problem with it, but as time goes on you might find that suddenly you have problems with your stomach and digestive tract. If that does occur you will begin tracing what the problem is, because the effects of carageenan for me, and many others, is utter daily suffering.
There obviously has to be a reason it is put in. It would cost money to a company using it. They aren't going to pay for it to add to their food just because they feel like it.
I'm with you on the labelling. That way people have a choice. But for the rest. I'm out.
Are we going to ban peanuts? Fish? They cause far more problems and more serious problems.
Mango triggers migraines for my husband. Should that be banned as well?
Carageenan is used as a thickener, and it keeps products from separating. Why can't we just go back to the label saying, "Shake well before use? That would take the carageenan completely out of the dairy products.
Chocolate milk without carageenan is just sadness in a bottle.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »catscats222 wrote: »i still want to know why on earth they would put careegenan in CHICKEN !!!
that answer would be awesome !!!!
right now could care less about a study on how msg type additives make people sick
carrageenan bonds easily with proteins. Most frozen meat is salinated before freezing to preserve shape and color. I'm guessing it's to assist the saline in preserving the shape of the chicken during freezing, but that's just a guess.
Yes, and I can't ever remember having a problem with chicken holding color and shape, even when fresh off the farm and put in the freezer to use later. It stumps me as to why they are adding it to the chicken, does not make any sense at all.
Because slow freezing and flash freezing have different results? Flash freezing will drastically change the shape and texture of the things frozen.
Thanks, I learn something new everyday!0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I'm good, at least as far as this is concerned. I've not seen any conclusive science that proves that it's bad, and much that proves that it's ok. I understand that it's considered as needing more research, but until such a time as I see some convincing science, I'm going to continue doing what I do.
More power to you, though. Especially if it causes you health problems. Almost everything causes someone health problems... we can't ban everything due to a small percentage of the population. We can, on the other hand, label it so that consumers can make their own decisions based on their own personal health needs.
Yes, sure, but the FDA is now recognizing that carageenan is a problem additive in foods. It's banned in other countries and should be banned here. The problem with not banning an ingredient that causes health problems (even to a small percentage of people-but the list is growing) means that we suffer from the ingredient added to our foods, and it isn't needed at all. It's a useless ingredient, if we could just go back to foods that are as close to natural as possible a huge amount of the people who have cancer would go way down in counts. Also, part of the problem is some manufacturer's are not labeling it, even though they are by law required to. So people like me eat something that we think is safe and suddenly we have extreme pain in the stomach and digestive tract with then causes a lot of other problems down below. It's painful to say the least.
I'm glad you don't seem to have a problem with it, but as time goes on you might find that suddenly you have problems with your stomach and digestive tract. If that does occur you will begin tracing what the problem is, because the effects of carageenan for me, and many others, is utter daily suffering.
There obviously has to be a reason it is put in. It would cost money to a company using it. They aren't going to pay for it to add to their food just because they feel like it.
I'm with you on the labelling. That way people have a choice. But for the rest. I'm out.
Are we going to ban peanuts? Fish? They cause far more problems and more serious problems.
Mango triggers migraines for my husband. Should that be banned as well?
Carageenan is used as a thickener, and it keeps products from separating. Why can't we just go back to the label saying, "Shake well before use? That would take the carageenan completely out of the dairy products.
We used to shake ice cream and cream cheese before using?
Of course not!0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »I'm good, at least as far as this is concerned. I've not seen any conclusive science that proves that it's bad, and much that proves that it's ok. I understand that it's considered as needing more research, but until such a time as I see some convincing science, I'm going to continue doing what I do.
More power to you, though. Especially if it causes you health problems. Almost everything causes someone health problems... we can't ban everything due to a small percentage of the population. We can, on the other hand, label it so that consumers can make their own decisions based on their own personal health needs.
Yes, sure, but the FDA is now recognizing that carageenan is a problem additive in foods. It's banned in other countries and should be banned here. The problem with not banning an ingredient that causes health problems (even to a small percentage of people-but the list is growing) means that we suffer from the ingredient added to our foods, and it isn't needed at all. It's a useless ingredient, if we could just go back to foods that are as close to natural as possible a huge amount of the people who have cancer would go way down in counts. Also, part of the problem is some manufacturer's are not labeling it, even though they are by law required to. So people like me eat something that we think is safe and suddenly we have extreme pain in the stomach and digestive tract with then causes a lot of other problems down below. It's painful to say the least.
I'm glad you don't seem to have a problem with it, but as time goes on you might find that suddenly you have problems with your stomach and digestive tract. If that does occur you will begin tracing what the problem is, because the effects of carageenan for me, and many others, is utter daily suffering.
There obviously has to be a reason it is put in. It would cost money to a company using it. They aren't going to pay for it to add to their food just because they feel like it.
I'm with you on the labelling. That way people have a choice. But for the rest. I'm out.
Are we going to ban peanuts? Fish? They cause far more problems and more serious problems.
Mango triggers migraines for my husband. Should that be banned as well?
Carageenan is used as a thickener, and it keeps products from separating. Why can't we just go back to the label saying, "Shake well before use? That would take the carageenan completely out of the dairy products.
Chocolate milk without carageenan is just sadness in a bottle.
LOL0 -
catscats222 wrote: »i don't care about studies - why is careegenan in my cluck cluck chicken ????
so i don't have to shake it?
sick of getting sick when i am not reading every single label.
I know, it's ridiculous, on the other hand Horizon products will be removing carageenan from their products by the end of 2016. Some here in 2015. I'll look for that info.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »catscats222 wrote: »i don't care about studies - why is careegenan in my cluck cluck chicken ????
so i don't have to shake it?
sick of getting sick when i am not reading every single label.
I know, it's ridiculous, on the other hand Horizon products will be removing carageenan from their products by the end of 2016. Some here in 2015. I'll look for that info.
bevnet.com/news/2014/whitewave-to-remove-carrageenan-from-silk-horizon0 -
catscats222 wrote: »i have learned so much today - thanx everyone
i wonder if these chicken products are making it to the cafeterias of our public school systems
msg type products http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
I would not doubt our children are eating these hidden additives, we just have lost control of our food and have only our voices to make changes.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/pdf/ehp0109-000983.pdf
Above is a PDF of different studies made on carageenan and the effects caused by it. Peer reviewed studies are not out there that I can find, and why would they be? The FDA claims that there is no problem using the additive, why would anyone do a peer review on it if the FDA says it's ok?
Studies on the effects of the additive are there and the FDA is now recognizing there may be problems for people consuming additives and proper labeling. This is so that we as consumers can make informed decisions on what we are buying for our families and selves.
Anyone who doesn't have a problem with ER visits or any other problems regarding additives in food will never understand what we go through and no-one should have to give you a peer review backing up our claims to what we go through and the pain we suffer. It is just not going to happen until these additives are truly recognized for what they are.
Did you read all the way through the pdf you posted? Do you understand everything it says? There are over 9,000 peer reviewed articles on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov which contains 22 databases if you search "carrageenan"
You need to understand that when you post a rant villifying an additive that is in almost everything we consume, you're going to get backlash, and the community expects (especially those of us who study processes of the body) hard evidence to back up your claims, not a blog. It's not personal, and it's not discounting your pain.
Carrageenan can cause an inflammation response because of certain binding cascades which will activate an increased production of interleukin-8, which is part of the immune response. It seems that in some people there is a decreased threshold of tolerance to the additive. Exposure to it, for some, causes an overproduction of IL-8 through that binding cascade. IL-8 is basically a chemical signal to specific types of white bloods cells and it tells them there is a foreign substance that needs to be elimintaed. The attack that insues causes inflammation and some damage to the GI tract, this is the cause of your pain and problems. It's really similar to an allergy. That does not mean that it is bad and dangerous for all people. There is no proof of that. Yes, there is evidence that in some individuals carrageenan can cause problems, but your blanket statement isn't really appropriate.
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catscats222 wrote: »i have learned so much today - thanx everyone
i wonder if these chicken products are making it to the cafeterias of our public school systems
msg type products http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
I don't know about chicken (not sure why we are holding certain words) but pretty are they serve chocolate milk in school.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »
I'm not here to argue with you, if you aren't interested then just get off the thread? This is for those who have interest in carageenan and it doesn't matter to me that you are so focused on peers regarding it. I will say once more, I have a horrible problem with carageen as do many many others out there. We need help in identifying the products that are hurting us so that we can feel safe to eat food and know that we won't be in bed for three days with extreme stomach pain and diahhrea. I am so happy you don't have problems with that.
But I do have an interest, an interest in making sure a premise is true, in this case the premise of it causing cancer. I have not once claimed you don't suffer any undesired symptoms from it, I've never claimed it doesn't cause stomach upsets in others. In fact, I have not made a single comment that is in support of this additive. I am purely responding to the claim that data was provided showing it caused cancer.
Just because I asked for more data on one of the points you made, it does not mean I automatically disagree with ALL points you made. We are not at war. I have just as might right to discuss the content of this thread as you do, that's how public forums are designed afterall.
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anewstart22 wrote: »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/pdf/ehp0109-000983.pdf
Above is a PDF of different studies made on carageenan and the effects caused by it. Peer reviewed studies are not out there that I can find, and why would they be? The FDA claims that there is no problem using the additive, why would anyone do a peer review on it if the FDA says it's ok?
Studies on the effects of the additive are there and the FDA is now recognizing there may be problems for people consuming additives and proper labeling. This is so that we as consumers can make informed decisions on what we are buying for our families and selves.
Anyone who doesn't have a problem with ER visits or any other problems regarding additives in food will never understand what we go through and no-one should have to give you a peer review backing up our claims to what we go through and the pain we suffer. It is just not going to happen until these additives are truly recognized for what they are.
Did you read all the way through the pdf you posted? Do you understand everything it says? There are over 9,000 peer reviewed articles on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov which contains 22 databases if you search "carrageenan"
You need to understand that when you post a rant villifying an additive that is in almost everything we consume, you're going to get backlash, and the community expects (especially those of us who study processes of the body) hard evidence to back up your claims, not a blog. It's not personal, and it's not discounting your pain.
Carrageenan can cause an inflammation response because of certain binding cascades which will activate an increased production of interleukin-8, which is part of the immune response. It seems that in some people there is a decreased threshold of tolerance to the additive. Exposure to it, for some, causes an overproduction of IL-8 through that binding cascade. IL-8 is basically a chemical signal to specific types of white bloods cells and it tells them there is a foreign substance that needs to be elimintaed. The attack that insues causes inflammation and some damage to the GI tract, this is the cause of your pain and problems. It's really similar to an allergy. That does not mean that it is bad and dangerous for all people. There is no proof of that. Yes, there is evidence that in some individuals carrageenan can cause problems, but your blanket statement isn't really appropriate.
Like.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »anewstart22 wrote: »catscats222 wrote: »i don't care about studies - why is careegenan in my cluck cluck chicken ????
so i don't have to shake it?
sick of getting sick when i am not reading every single label.
I know, it's ridiculous, on the other hand Horizon products will be removing carageenan from their products by the end of 2016. Some here in 2015. I'll look for that info.
bevnet.com/news/2014/whitewave-to-remove-carrageenan-from-silk-horizon
I've met the CEO of Whitewave. The reason they are doing this is public pressure, true... but not for health reasons... for profit reasons. If the public wants something, they are more than happy to comply because that's where they get their profits from. Greg Engles and Whitewave have strong ties to my previous employer and he is one of Dean Food's (parent company of WhiteWave) biggest financial backers. As far as those two are concerned... it's only profits that drive decision making.0 -
Thanks for the information. I've learned something new today as well.
It seems clear that manufacturers will use words like "natural" or "wholesome" to exploit unconscious associations in the minds of consumers that they have with those words in order to confer positive thoughts about their products (even though the product may not have any such tangible benefit).
Homeopathic remedies for example are often marketed as "natural" due to the fallacy that if something comes from nature it is automatically good or beneficial. Without a clear consensus on what "natural" is agreed to entail can be exploited to the benefit of the seller but at the detriment of the buyer.
I think we must consider risk, its magnitude and the impact of the risk when deciding on matters of public policy but general discussions are always good to bring issues to the attention of consumers.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/pdf/ehp0109-000983.pdf
Above is a PDF of different studies made on carageenan and the effects caused by it. Peer reviewed studies are not out there that I can find, and why would they be? The FDA claims that there is no problem using the additive, why would anyone do a peer review on it if the FDA says it's ok?
Studies on the effects of the additive are there and the FDA is now recognizing there may be problems for people consuming additives and proper labeling. This is so that we as consumers can make informed decisions on what we are buying for our families and selves.
Anyone who doesn't have a problem with ER visits or any other problems regarding additives in food will never understand what we go through and no-one should have to give you a peer review backing up our claims to what we go through and the pain we suffer. It is just not going to happen until these additives are truly recognized for what they are.
Did you read all the way through the pdf you posted? Do you understand everything it says? There are over 9,000 peer reviewed articles on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov which contains 22 databases if you search "carrageenan"
You need to understand that when you post a rant villifying an additive that is in almost everything we consume, you're going to get backlash, and the community expects (especially those of us who study processes of the body) hard evidence to back up your claims, not a blog. It's not personal, and it's not discounting your pain.
Carrageenan can cause an inflammation response because of certain binding cascades which will activate an increased production of interleukin-8, which is part of the immune response. It seems that in some people there is a decreased threshold of tolerance to the additive. Exposure to it, for some, causes an overproduction of IL-8 through that binding cascade. IL-8 is basically a chemical signal to specific types of white bloods cells and it tells them there is a foreign substance that needs to be elimintaed. The attack that insues causes inflammation and some damage to the GI tract, this is the cause of your pain and problems. It's really similar to an allergy. That does not mean that it is bad and dangerous for all people. There is no proof of that. Yes, there is evidence that in some individuals carrageenan can cause problems, but your blanket statement isn't really appropriate.
So it's like aspartame 2.0, a few people have problems with it so it gets blown up to be the death of us all for no reason.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1242073/pdf/ehp0109-000983.pdf
Above is a PDF of different studies made on carageenan and the effects caused by it. Peer reviewed studies are not out there that I can find, and why would they be? The FDA claims that there is no problem using the additive, why would anyone do a peer review on it if the FDA says it's ok?
Studies on the effects of the additive are there and the FDA is now recognizing there may be problems for people consuming additives and proper labeling. This is so that we as consumers can make informed decisions on what we are buying for our families and selves.
Anyone who doesn't have a problem with ER visits or any other problems regarding additives in food will never understand what we go through and no-one should have to give you a peer review backing up our claims to what we go through and the pain we suffer. It is just not going to happen until these additives are truly recognized for what they are.
Did you read all the way through the pdf you posted? Do you understand everything it says? There are over 9,000 peer reviewed articles on www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov which contains 22 databases if you search "carrageenan"
You need to understand that when you post a rant villifying an additive that is in almost everything we consume, you're going to get backlash, and the community expects (especially those of us who study processes of the body) hard evidence to back up your claims, not a blog. It's not personal, and it's not discounting your pain.
Carrageenan can cause an inflammation response because of certain binding cascades which will activate an increased production of interleukin-8, which is part of the immune response. It seems that in some people there is a decreased threshold of tolerance to the additive. Exposure to it, for some, causes an overproduction of IL-8 through that binding cascade. IL-8 is basically a chemical signal to specific types of white bloods cells and it tells them there is a foreign substance that needs to be elimintaed. The attack that insues causes inflammation and some damage to the GI tract, this is the cause of your pain and problems. It's really similar to an allergy. That does not mean that it is bad and dangerous for all people. There is no proof of that. Yes, there is evidence that in some individuals carrageenan can cause problems, but your blanket statement isn't really appropriate.
Yes, I read the PDF, and yes I understand what it says. The point I am trying to make here, is that proper labeling is not occurring regarding this additive that cause myself and many others problems. This is what the FDA is wanting our input on. Proper labeling, what does it mean to you? To me it means I need to know that a "Natural product has carageenan listed on the label that says, "All Natural Ingredients". Because after all, carageeenan is natural, but it causes me problems and it is required to be on the labeling. I'd like to stay upright and without pain when I eat something.
Thanks for your explanation, it makes sense and that is basically what I was getting regarding the PDF. We as consumers should be informed of what we are putting into our bodies. These manufacturers use new additives all the time and have no idea the effect it will have on us and I don't think the majority even cares because it's all about the green to them.0 -
anewstart22 wrote: »catscats222 wrote: »i have learned so much today - thanx everyone
i wonder if these chicken products are making it to the cafeterias of our public school systems
msg type products http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html
I would not doubt our children are eating these hidden additives, we just have lost control of our food and have only our voices to make changes.
We haven't lost our voices. You speak with your money. If you don't agree wth adding carrageenan to your food, but products without it. If there is a demand for products it's free of it, they will produce it.0
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