Hypertrophy?
Replies
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_dracarys_ wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
To be fair, the OP doesn't even know what the OP wants. Starting with a book suggestion is not going to derail anything.
I didn't say you were trying to derail. I expressed my disagreement. Too many folks throw around 5x5 and 5/3/1 like everyone needs/should follow these programs. I'm even an huge fan of both programs, just not for everyone.
For sure, SL5x5, ICF, 5/3/1, MC5x5 all get thrown-around a lot. Here's the thing though, they're all proven training programs and in the case of 5/3/1; it's more of a training system that once you understand it you can use it for life. The problem with MFP is that most people here don't really understand program design; if they actually did they wouldn't be here asking questions. Prescribing a pre-built program or training system is the easier of the routes. Ideally the person would find somebody to tailor a program specific to what they need but even that gets sketchy with some of the training "professionals", which brings us full-circle back to ready-made programming.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
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LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
I understand that. Sometimes people just need straight sets with linear progression to start out with. I can understand why OP is confused.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
I understand that. Sometimes people just need straight sets with linear progression to start out with. I can understand why OP is confused.
For sure, too much information available in some cases.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.
For the right goals; yes, I agree with you 100%0 -
_dracarys_ wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
To be fair, the OP doesn't even know what the OP wants. Starting with a book suggestion is not going to derail anything.
How do you know that I don't know what I want? I want to build muscle and do more hypertrophy .. See if your gonna try n be a smart *kitten* n try n comment on stuff and tell people what you 'think' they want don't comment
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TBH, years ago I did SL 5x5 at the recommendation of people on MFP and it did next to nothing in the way of my physique. I loved it for strength building though.0
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5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.0
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5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?0 -
5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.
For the right goals; yes, I agree with you 100%
To be fair, there's variations that focus on hypertrophy too, so there's a 5/3/1 program for any goal.
I'm doing a beginner's variation right now still, where you add volume and frequency by doing lighter sets of the lift you're gonna do 2 workouts from now.
So if your days are
1 Deadlift
2 Bench Press
3 Overhead Press
4 Squat
you'd do
1 Deadlift and light Overhead Press (+ assistance)
2 Bench Press and light Squats (+ assistance)
3 Overhead Press and light Deadlifts (+ assistance)
4 Squats and light Bench Press (+ assistance)
Works pretty well. The light sets can be at hypertrophy ranges, or you could just go all out and try your next 5/3/1 step already if you're feeling strong instead of going with light sets. That's up to you.0 -
5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.
For the right goals; yes, I agree with you 100%
To be fair, there's variations that focus on hypertrophy too, so there's a 5/3/1 program for any goal.
I'm doing a beginner's variation right now still, where you add volume and frequency by doing lighter sets of the lift you're gonna do 2 workouts from now.
So if your days are
1 Deadlift
2 Bench Press
3 Overhead Press
4 Squat
you'd do
1 Deadlift and light Overhead Press (+ assistance)
2 Bench Press and light Squats (+ assistance)
3 Overhead Press and light Deadlifts (+ assistance)
4 Squats and light Bench Press (+ assistance)
Works pretty well. The light sets can be at hypertrophy ranges, or you could just go all out and try your next 5/3/1 step already if you're feeling strong instead of going with light sets. That's up to you.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone who likes 5/3/1, I've used it myself and love it. What people are failing to understand is the OP is "overwhelmed" by the complexity of the 5/3/1 or other programs based on percentages. I'm simply trying to help them get on a basic hypertrophy program they can follow very easily.....rinse & repeat.0 -
_dracarys_ wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
To be fair, the OP doesn't even know what the OP wants. Starting with a book suggestion is not going to derail anything.
How do you know that I don't know what I want? I want to build muscle and do more hypertrophy .. See if your gonna try n be a smart *kitten* n try n comment on stuff and tell people what you 'think' they want don't comment
I'm not trying to be mean. You've been lifting for 10 weeks. You are new. If you knew what you wanted, you wouldn't be asking. So, you can be salty or you can pull up your big girl panties and figure it out.
In other news, now I remember why I stay out of the forums. Good luck, OP.0 -
_dracarys_ wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
To be fair, the OP doesn't even know what the OP wants. Starting with a book suggestion is not going to derail anything.
How do you know that I don't know what I want? I want to build muscle and do more hypertrophy .. See if your gonna try n be a smart *kitten* n try n comment on stuff and tell people what you 'think' they want don't comment
I'm not trying to be mean. You've been lifting for 10 weeks. You are new. If you knew what you wanted, you wouldn't be asking. So, you can be salty or you can pull up your big girl panties and figure it out.
In other news, now I remember why I stay out of the forums. Good luck, OP.
FWIW, I think she knows exactly what she wants, just not exactly how to achieve it. Geez.0 -
5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.0 -
5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
Because the magazines and BB.com is king! **all hail**0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
There are also plenty of scientific studies done by people like Brad Schoenfeld who conclude that increased frequency 2x / week or more of the same muscle groups is the way to go...ala Full Body routines... I'm sure you know who he is though....0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
There are also plenty of scientific studies done by people like Brad Schoenfeld who conclude that increased frequency 2x / week or more of the same muscle groups is the way to go...ala Full Body routines... I'm sure you know who he is though....
Yes I am aware of the studies. Yes I am aware that higher frequency programs can be more beneficial, and I follow them myself. Might not be as optimal, but it doesn't mean that you can not obtain beneficial results with a body part split though... and telling someone to support their opinion with scientific studies, especially when they are not trying to pass it off as THE go to route (they stated THEIR preference and did not direct OP to follow it), is ignorant.LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
Because the magazines and BB.com is king! **all hail**
Who said anything about magazines or bodybuilding.com? Richln simply posted preference and nothing more...0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
There are also plenty of scientific studies done by people like Brad Schoenfeld who conclude that increased frequency 2x / week or more of the same muscle groups is the way to go...ala Full Body routines... I'm sure you know who he is though....
Yes I am aware of the studies. Yes I am aware that higher frequency programs can be more beneficial, and I follow them myself. Might not be as optimal, but it doesn't mean that you can not obtain beneficial results with a body part split though... and telling someone to support their opinion with scientific studies, especially when they are not trying to pass it off as THE go to route (they stated THEIR preference and did not direct OP to follow it), is ignorant.LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
Because the magazines and BB.com is king! **all hail**
Who said anything about magazines or bodybuilding.com? Richln simply posted preference and nothing more...
My point was he was just going off personal experience....you know as well as I do how well personal experience works on MFP. Anyways....point taken. I re-tract my sarcastic post from prior.
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LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
Indeed. If somebody ever publishes the study that conclusively identifies the hypertrophy mechanisms at the cellular level and describes the most optimal hypertrophy program possible, I would love to read it.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
There are also plenty of scientific studies done by people like Brad Schoenfeld who conclude that increased frequency 2x / week or more of the same muscle groups is the way to go...ala Full Body routines... I'm sure you know who he is though....
Here is Brad Schoenfeld stating that he does not think there is an "optimal" hypertrophy routine, and that hypertrophy science is far from settled. He also states that once-a-week frequency can be very effective for naturals and chasing pumps may actually be beneficial after all:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/hypertrophy-specialist
I am not trying to be argumentative, I am here to learn, and I appreciate your perspective.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »5- or 6-day body part splits are my preferred plans for hypertrophy. Focus only on volume while staying in the 10 rep range if you don't care about strength as much. I do think strength training is best for beginners though, at least until they get solidly into intermediate strength levels.
Care to link any sources of this information?
What type of links are you asking for? I stated my preference for hypertrophy, based on the dozens of programs I have tried over the years.
n=1 is not a valid agreement.
I would speculate that I am not the only one who has used traditional bodybuilding splits for bodybuilding.
meh, even so... it's an opinion... you're not trying to pass it off as factual information really.
There are also plenty of scientific studies done by people like Brad Schoenfeld who conclude that increased frequency 2x / week or more of the same muscle groups is the way to go...ala Full Body routines... I'm sure you know who he is though....
Here is Brad Schoenfeld stating that he does not think there is an "optimal" hypertrophy routine, and that hypertrophy science is far from settled. He also states that once-a-week frequency can be very effective for naturals and chasing pumps may actually be beneficial after all:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/hypertrophy-specialist
I am not trying to be argumentative, I am here to learn, and I appreciate your perspective.
I understand.....that article is 5+ years old now. Just so you know. He has done many studies since then which lean heavily in the direction of higher frequency. Overall weekly volume will dictate hypertrophy the most though.0 -
I think the argument of hypertrophy training via body-part, full-body, push/pull is kind of a moot point. A well thought-out program using any of those structures can work. Is one better than the other, perhaps, evidence suggests that full-body could be better but changes in total volume could make body-part split better. How much better is one over the other? Is it significant? Who knows, much of it will depend on the individual as well. The other part that got missed in all this is the individual's motivation to train and the OP indicated they enjoy. Even if full-body is 100% proven to be the best, if the user isn't motivated by that type of programming then what's the point?0
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FitGirl0123 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
To be fair, the OP doesn't even know what the OP wants. Starting with a book suggestion is not going to derail anything.
How do you know that I don't know what I want? I want to build muscle and do more hypertrophy .. See if your gonna try n be a smart *kitten* n try n comment on stuff and tell people what you 'think' they want don't comment
I'm not trying to be mean. You've been lifting for 10 weeks. You are new. If you knew what you wanted, you wouldn't be asking. So, you can be salty or you can pull up your big girl panties and figure it out.
In other news, now I remember why I stay out of the forums. Good luck, OP.
FWIW, I think she knows exactly what she wants, just not exactly how to achieve it. Geez.
Exactly what FitGirl said! I know what I want I just want to know how to achieve it what 'programmes' are best to achieve the goals I set. I'm not trying to be *kitten* either but am not gonna sit and have someone tell me I don't know what I want. You don't even know me so how can you possibly know?0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.
For the right goals; yes, I agree with you 100%
To be fair, there's variations that focus on hypertrophy too, so there's a 5/3/1 program for any goal.
I'm doing a beginner's variation right now still, where you add volume and frequency by doing lighter sets of the lift you're gonna do 2 workouts from now.
So if your days are
1 Deadlift
2 Bench Press
3 Overhead Press
4 Squat
you'd do
1 Deadlift and light Overhead Press (+ assistance)
2 Bench Press and light Squats (+ assistance)
3 Overhead Press and light Deadlifts (+ assistance)
4 Squats and light Bench Press (+ assistance)
Works pretty well. The light sets can be at hypertrophy ranges, or you could just go all out and try your next 5/3/1 step already if you're feeling strong instead of going with light sets. That's up to you.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone who likes 5/3/1, I've used it myself and love it. What people are failing to understand is the OP is "overwhelmed" by the complexity of the 5/3/1 or other programs based on percentages. I'm simply trying to help them get on a basic hypertrophy program they can follow very easily.....rinse & repeat.
This too ...it is infact the percentages etc that are pretty confusing for me so something pretty easy to follow would be good.0 -
Someone suggested PHUL (power hypertrophy upper lower). Did you check it out?0
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stevencloser wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »_dracarys_ wrote: »Ice Cream Fitness is SL5x5 with isolation work added (shrugs, tricep extensions, curls, hyperextensions, crunches, CGBP.) Do you not like these isolation exercises? What more or different exercises do you want to do?
Yeah that's the one I'm doing. I wanted to do more delt work , more things for legs instead of just squats more exercises for the back etc Chest press incline, decline with cable machine etc I wanted to hit my muscles hard and I don't get that feeling at all with ICF
I recommend reading Wendler's 5/3/1 book. I totally get wanting to do it all to have it all, but you'll spend half your day in the gym doing that. 5/3/1 can be customized so you never get bored and you can do a mix of strength and hypertrophy lifts.
She's pretty right on. Make sure to get "Beyond 5/3/1" which would have all of Jim's more current training info.
I don't agree, if the OP is wanting to build maximum muscle then she should focus on a hypertrophy program.
5/3/1 can be set up in such a fashion that it lends itself to hypertrophy. Accumulate additional volume on the assistance lifts, not to mention incorporating Joker Sets, Back Off sets etc.
People make this stuff out to be more complicated then it has it be....
Haha, for sure; way more complicated than it needs to be. I've been a member of Jim's site for a few years now, so I guess I am biased to his training principles; but once you understand everything he presents it's really a means of training for life.
For the right goals; yes, I agree with you 100%
To be fair, there's variations that focus on hypertrophy too, so there's a 5/3/1 program for any goal.
I'm doing a beginner's variation right now still, where you add volume and frequency by doing lighter sets of the lift you're gonna do 2 workouts from now.
So if your days are
1 Deadlift
2 Bench Press
3 Overhead Press
4 Squat
you'd do
1 Deadlift and light Overhead Press (+ assistance)
2 Bench Press and light Squats (+ assistance)
3 Overhead Press and light Deadlifts (+ assistance)
4 Squats and light Bench Press (+ assistance)
Works pretty well. The light sets can be at hypertrophy ranges, or you could just go all out and try your next 5/3/1 step already if you're feeling strong instead of going with light sets. That's up to you.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone who likes 5/3/1, I've used it myself and love it. What people are failing to understand is the OP is "overwhelmed" by the complexity of the 5/3/1 or other programs based on percentages. I'm simply trying to help them get on a basic hypertrophy program they can follow very easily.....rinse & repeat.
This too ...it is infact the percentages etc that are pretty confusing for me so something pretty easy to follow would be good.
That's where things like ICF and SL are good because basically you start with the bar and add 5 & 10 depending on the lift. I'm not sure what PHUL is but it's probably worth looking into. The problem with some of your better training programs like 5/3/1, Cube, Juggernaut, Conjugate, etc, is you get into the %'s because good program design is very specific with the intensity used so you have to know what you're working with. Try looking into what PHUL entails and other possible programs as well. Google "Athlean" (I think that's what it is) as I believe he has different free programs too but I really know little about the details.0
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