3-month Plateau

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  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    SLLRunner wrote: »
    @usmcmp, I am learning about leptin, so forgive me if I'm not following. What I gleaned from these articles is that eating at a larger deficit for a prolonged period of time causes a leptin decrease, but a refeed up to TDEE or slightly above is supposed to raise leptin levels so hopefully weight loss starts again.

    I've been down this rabbit hole, it's a dead end.Leptin has been known about for <30 years and there is no identified direct effect of it on weight loss in humans. When it first appeared all the talk was about Leptin shots making mice thin or something.

    Fat reserves excrete leptin, fatter people have more leptin, when they cut calories leptin falls. That's about it.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15356018 found that leptin plays a role in appetite, but calorie counters override that and there isn't an identified direct role in fat loss.

    Here's a review - http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/223/1/T83.full - enjoy the burrowing !
  • cafeaulait7
    cafeaulait7 Posts: 2,459 Member
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    But are there many good studies about long plateaus in folks losing weight where it was working? I think it's a bit of uncharted land, myself. Anecdotally, I do really well cycling my calories overall or having a big day at least every 10 days. It really doesn't work as well not doing that (lots of plateauing). I don't know why it would work, but it is a common 'myth' at least. I'm not worried about myths that work for me. I worry about the ones that that don't or are too silly to try, lol.

    It would be interesting for more study. Plateaus are hard to arrange studies around, though, I'd expect. Most people probably are slipping in their eating or making other changes that they don't notice, and they'd get thrown out of a study on real plateaus. I don't know if the studies even agree that plateaus are real at the moment?

    Meh, it can't hurt to have a (logged) reasonable treat day once you know your logging is well in order, imho, so you can work out the CICO math the same way with that info if that's all it is.
  • Lucille4444
    Lucille4444 Posts: 284 Member
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    sunandmoons wrote: »
    When I stalled, I reviewed what I wasn't doing right..realized I was not drinking enough water and a bit dehydrated. Upped my calories by 400 and drank 60 ounces of water.. started losing once again
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
    You may have started losing again anyway.

  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
    edited December 2015
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    SLLRunner wrote: »
    @usmcmp, I am learning about leptin, so forgive me if I'm not following. What I gleaned from these articles is that eating at a larger deficit for a prolonged period of time causes a leptin decrease, but a refeed up to TDEE or slightly above is supposed to raise leptin levels so hopefully weight loss starts again. Well, it seems to me if you're truly eating at a calorie deficit and you eat at maintenance or slightly above one or two days a week, you're total overall calories are still at a deficit. Thus, the weight loss happens. because of the deficit and not the refeed day.

    If you think you're eating at a calorie deficit but you're really not due to inaccuracy, a refeed day is the worst action a person could take. I've seen plenty of posts where people think they should just start eating more when they are not losing weight.

    However, I see nothing in the articles that addressed my questions above. I have a difficult time believing that you can overeat one day and have a drop in the scale the next day just due to overeating (or refeed). It seems to me that it would be more coincidence than anything and part of natural fluctuations.

    You would still be in a deficit at the end of the week. The weight loss is due to the deficit. I will never claim any different, a deficit is still required. There are times where weight loss stalls despite someone being accurate and accounting for the natural lowering of TDEE due to calorie restriction and weight loss. Taking a diet break or having a refeed day can help correct natural metabolic adaptations caused by calorie restriction.

    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2011-1286?sid=c2c187ec-5445-48ad-9291-be95019f6a68&amp;

    I also mentioned before that leptin isn't the only hormone at play in this. Cortisol often masks fat loss, putting you into a plateau due to water retention. A higher calorie day, laying off cardio or making other changes can release the water.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    edited December 2015
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    yarwell wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    @usmcmp, I am learning about leptin, so forgive me if I'm not following. What I gleaned from these articles is that eating at a larger deficit for a prolonged period of time causes a leptin decrease, but a refeed up to TDEE or slightly above is supposed to raise leptin levels so hopefully weight loss starts again.

    I've been down this rabbit hole, it's a dead end.Leptin has been known about for <30 years and there is no identified direct effect of it on weight loss in humans. When it first appeared all the talk was about Leptin shots making mice thin or something.

    Fat reserves excrete leptin, fatter people have more leptin, when they cut calories leptin falls. That's about it.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15356018 found that leptin plays a role in appetite, but calorie counters override that and there isn't an identified direct role in fat loss.

    Here's a review - http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/223/1/T83.full - enjoy the burrowing !

    Thank you so much, @yarwell. I was thinking along the same lines but did not know if I would be correct or not.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    @usmcmp, I am learning about leptin, so forgive me if I'm not following. What I gleaned from these articles is that eating at a larger deficit for a prolonged period of time causes a leptin decrease, but a refeed up to TDEE or slightly above is supposed to raise leptin levels so hopefully weight loss starts again. Well, it seems to me if you're truly eating at a calorie deficit and you eat at maintenance or slightly above one or two days a week, you're total overall calories are still at a deficit. Thus, the weight loss happens. because of the deficit and not the refeed day.

    If you think you're eating at a calorie deficit but you're really not due to inaccuracy, a refeed day is the worst action a person could take. I've seen plenty of posts where people think they should just start eating more when they are not losing weight.

    However, I see nothing in the articles that addressed my questions above. I have a difficult time believing that you can overeat one day and have a drop in the scale the next day just due to overeating (or refeed). It seems to me that it would be more coincidence than anything and part of natural fluctuations.

    You would still be in a deficit at the end of the week. The weight loss is due to the deficit. I will never claim any different, a deficit is still required. There are times where weight loss stalls despite someone being accurate and accounting for the natural lowering of TDEE due to calorie restriction and weight loss. Taking a diet break or having a refeed day can help correct natural metabolic adaptations caused by calorie restriction.

    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2011-1286?sid=c2c187ec-5445-48ad-9291-be95019f6a68&amp;

    I also mentioned before that leptin isn't the only hormone at play in this. Cortisol often masks fat loss, putting you into a plateau due to water retention. A higher calorie day, laying off cardio or making other changes can release the water.

    Well, weight loss is not linear and water retention is normal.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    SLLRunner wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    @usmcmp, I am learning about leptin, so forgive me if I'm not following. What I gleaned from these articles is that eating at a larger deficit for a prolonged period of time causes a leptin decrease, but a refeed up to TDEE or slightly above is supposed to raise leptin levels so hopefully weight loss starts again. Well, it seems to me if you're truly eating at a calorie deficit and you eat at maintenance or slightly above one or two days a week, you're total overall calories are still at a deficit. Thus, the weight loss happens. because of the deficit and not the refeed day.

    If you think you're eating at a calorie deficit but you're really not due to inaccuracy, a refeed day is the worst action a person could take. I've seen plenty of posts where people think they should just start eating more when they are not losing weight.

    However, I see nothing in the articles that addressed my questions above. I have a difficult time believing that you can overeat one day and have a drop in the scale the next day just due to overeating (or refeed). It seems to me that it would be more coincidence than anything and part of natural fluctuations.

    You would still be in a deficit at the end of the week. The weight loss is due to the deficit. I will never claim any different, a deficit is still required. There are times where weight loss stalls despite someone being accurate and accounting for the natural lowering of TDEE due to calorie restriction and weight loss. Taking a diet break or having a refeed day can help correct natural metabolic adaptations caused by calorie restriction.

    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2011-1286?sid=c2c187ec-5445-48ad-9291-be95019f6a68&amp;

    I also mentioned before that leptin isn't the only hormone at play in this. Cortisol often masks fat loss, putting you into a plateau due to water retention. A higher calorie day, laying off cardio or making other changes can release the water.

    Well, weight loss is not linear and water retention is normal.

    Of course. But you can help bring your TDEE up by having refeeds and restoring hormonal balance. The degree of hormonal adaptation can have a fairly large impact. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19660148
  • bioklutz
    bioklutz Posts: 1,365 Member
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    Scroll down to Why Take a Full Diet Break: Physiological Reasons on this article: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html/

    Lyle talks about other hormones that get out of whack when dieting.
  • sunandmoons
    sunandmoons Posts: 415 Member
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    SLLRunner wrote: »
    sunandmoons wrote: »
    When I stalled, I reviewed what I wasn't doing right..realized I was not drinking enough water and a bit dehydrated. Upped my calories by 400 and drank 60 ounces of water.. started losing once again

    You upped your calories by 400 for one day only and drank 60 ounces of water? Or, you did this for a prolonged period?

    Either way, you still had to be in a deficit to lose weight.

    Yes for a few weeks upped my calories a bit some days less then another. Yes I was in a smaller defecit. My point was I was dehydrated. 100 days of 1200 calories and only drinking about 30 to 35 ounces of water.

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