What are your feelings on calorie counting?
Replies
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whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
We have to start somewhere. MFP makes it very easy to see the nutritional information for the foods we eat. People are capable of taking in both nutritional info and calorie amounts. MFP is a tool. People get what they put into it.
All overweight people are not ignorant about how to lose weight and nutrition.0 -
with me it's a necessary evil. Sometimes i hate it> Like right now Other times its like "meh whatevs"0
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whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
How is trying and giving up on calorie counting more harmful than not trying to count calories? If you eat it or don't eat it, and don't count it, you are still eating or not eating a thing. An app isn't going to change your health, what you are eating will change your health.0 -
daniwilford wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
How is trying and giving up on calorie counting more harmful than not trying to count calories? If you eat it or don't eat it, and don't count it, you are still eating or not eating a thing. An app isn't going to change your health, what you are eating will change your health.
Not my point at all, it's more harmful for the person to continuously give up on something, then it is for them to actually find a way so they can eat within a certain calorie target, and be healthy. I never said completely neglect health, or weight loss to achieve healthness. I said figure out HOW to be healthy and WHAT to eat that will allow you to be healthy, then add the calorie counting. Calorie counting is a huge leap for a completely unhealthy person. It's more proficient to have several smaller steps that lead you to a healthier life, then going from one way of living to an entirely different way of living..of course that person was bound to fail.
And, yes..actually an APP can change your health. Before they changed the calorie thing so you can't figure out how much you'll lose if you only ate..per say, 400 calories...it became an obsession with me. I began to eat at one point 300 calories, and then 200 a day. BECAUSE this app showed that I would lose weight a hell of a lot quicker then eating healthy. I was underweight an anorexic. Then, I gave up on the app because I saw what it did to me, not entirely, but I wouldn't have sought after the low calorie thing, MFP showed me to it one day when I accidentally clicked on finish diary. Then, six months after gaining weight and becoming healthy, I had managed to stay that way...until once again I joined mfp, and guess what? For every day that I calorie counted, I'd eat waaaay more, and even binge. For every day I didn't I'd eat normal. Too very awful extremes produced by this app. I am not everyone on this app, I'm not using me as the basis of the failure from this app. However, I know for a fact failure comes from not knowing the proper way to eat. Yes, this app can set a calorie goal for you, and yes, it tells you certain foods are better than others, but for a lot of people, it needs to be just more than that.0 -
susan100df wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
We have to start somewhere. MFP makes it very easy to see the nutritional information for the foods we eat. People are capable of taking in both nutritional info and calorie amounts. MFP is a tool. People get what they put into it.
All overweight people are not ignorant about how to lose weight and nutrition.
I meant applying it. And it's easier to fail doing too many things at once, then doing it in smaller, more achievable steps.0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »susan100df wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
We have to start somewhere. MFP makes it very easy to see the nutritional information for the foods we eat. People are capable of taking in both nutritional info and calorie amounts. MFP is a tool. People get what they put into it.
All overweight people are not ignorant about how to lose weight and nutrition.
I meant applying it. And it's easier to fail doing too many things at once, then doing it in smaller, more achievable steps.
It's easier for a person to start adding vegetables, and then fruits, and then healthier grains, and so on, to their diets...then it is for them to restrict their diets. (of course, some people don't like fruits and veggies, then that'd be a struggle, but I'm sure of all the vast nutritious foods, they could figure out something to add to their diets.)0 -
Calorie counting is the one weight loss method that finally, after 40 years of dieting, clicked for me.0
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whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
So you keep saying people should "learn nutrition" before they start using MFP or counting calories otherwise they are destined to fail. Where do you propose they learn nutrition? Take college courses? Spend time googling peer reviewed studies about micro and macro nutrient balance? Wouldn't a practical way of learning be what so many of us do, and advise others to do when starting out here? Start with a modest calorie deficit. Eat the foods you normally eat, in smaller portions, logging everything. When you realize that you aren't satisfied with that, you start adding on more nutrient dense foods and leave the calorie dense items as a treat. I really don't see how just starting, and learning as you go by seeing the nutritional info in the database and lurking the forums, can be worse than trying to muddle through extensive nutritional info online without seeing how it applies to your particular dietary choices...0 -
It brings great awareness to the impacts of various food choices and has been the key to my success over the past 4 years. Lost 35 pounds and maintained within 3 pounds for 3.5 years and am going back to it to lose a couple of holiday pounds.0
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WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
So you keep saying people should "learn nutrition" before they start using MFP or counting calories otherwise they are destined to fail. Where do you propose they learn nutrition? Take college courses? Spend time googling peer reviewed studies about micro and macro nutrient balance? Wouldn't a practical way of learning be what so many of us do, and advise others to do when starting out here? Start with a modest calorie deficit. Eat the foods you normally eat, in smaller portions, logging everything. When you realize that you aren't satisfied with that, you start adding on more nutrient dense foods and leave the calorie dense items as a treat. I really don't see how just starting, and learning as you go by seeing the nutritional info in the database and lurking the forums, can be worse than trying to muddle through extensive nutritional info online without seeing how it applies to your particular dietary choices...
This would be the most common sense approach
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Calorie counting works for me. It's a fact so you can't argue or rationalize with them
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WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count? Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick? Actually, now you're allowed to submit diaries at 900- 1000(depending on your original calorie target, I'm thinking it's 200 calories less than you are targeted to eat), which is below healthy calorie intake. Of course, anything used how it was designed would probably work. Me overgeneralizing the fail rate of MFP is no better than you overgeneralizing the success rate in which MFP users are able to count calories, and stay in a deficit, a healthy deficit.
So you keep saying people should "learn nutrition" before they start using MFP or counting calories otherwise they are destined to fail. Where do you propose they learn nutrition? Take college courses? Spend time googling peer reviewed studies about micro and macro nutrient balance? Wouldn't a practical way of learning be what so many of us do, and advise others to do when starting out here? Start with a modest calorie deficit. Eat the foods you normally eat, in smaller portions, logging everything. When you realize that you aren't satisfied with that, you start adding on more nutrient dense foods and leave the calorie dense items as a treat. I really don't see how just starting, and learning as you go by seeing the nutritional info in the database and lurking the forums, can be worse than trying to muddle through extensive nutritional info online without seeing how it applies to your particular dietary choices...
Yes, I am saying that the people who continuously try and fail using MFP, or any other calorie counting site/plan/etc should learn about and apply nutrition before taking on the calorie deficit. I am not saying that everyone should. You do not need a college class to learn about and apply nutrition, there are SEVERAL free resources, at your local library, an online library, free college textbooks online, etc. I get that there are people who can be taught nutrition simply by using MFP, but others fall of that path before they even get started due to the fact that calorie counting can be extreme for CERTAIN not ALL people. I have a health and fitness course in my college, and know several of students in the course. They are always taught to teach nutrition before teaching calorie intake to their future costumers, students, etc etc.
I'm in the ECE course, and I'm almost positive the entire nutrition class focused on the right nutrition more than it ever did calorie intake, I think maybe one chapter out of a whole 13 chapter book was about calorie intake.
Now, if I were to say this whole time that this applies to everyone, I would expect so many replies saying "nuh-uh, no-way," but, I've only said it applies to individuals in certain circumstances. I've learned that when people disagree it's either because they fail to believe anything different or don't want to believe what they are doing could have a downside. So yes, for you, for the others, for several of MFP users..you are perfectly able to find your balance and so on. I'm saying that, for others, AND NOT YOU, it couldn't hurt to start working on nutrition and then tackling the calorie intake, when they are having a hell of a time battling calorie intake.0 -
As far as I am concerned it is the only way to go (for me at least). I used another calorie counting program about 8 years ago and lost 50 pounds (including a lot of exercise). Unfortunately I got out of the habit of tracking calories - when I reached my target goal it was easy to convince myself I didn't need the structure any more as I kept the weight off for a couple years, but the old habits took over and I eventually put it all back on. I know going back to the structure of tracking my calorie balance daily is the way that works for me, so here I go again! Looking forward to it!0
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Even if you don't count calories with precision detail, one thing is for sure, and that is that you DO need a basic idea of how much energy you're consuming each day versus how much you're expending. (Calories are simply a measurement of energy)
This is because total energy balance is the ultimate bottom line when it comes to your nutrition plan. In order to gain muscle, you must consume a surplus of calories each day to fuel growth, and in order to lose fat, you must create a calorie deficit in order to stimulate fat loss. There's no way around this, and if you don't create a calorie surplus or deficit, you aren't going to make any real progress.
Is counting calories necessary? Yes, it is to a certain degree.
Just how accurately you decide to employ your calorie tracking is up to you and depends how serious you are about your goals. If you want the very best results possible, then just go ahead and begin counting calories as accurately as you can, and for even better results, you should be counting macros as well.
This will ensure that you create a precise calorie surplus that helps you gain muscle while minimizing fat gain... or that you create a precise calorie deficit that stimulates fat loss while minimizing muscle loss. You definitely should have a rough ballpark figure in mind if you want to achieve real results. Otherwise, you'll just be completely winging your diet.
"Do you need to count calories? Is calorie counting effective?" If you're serious about your results, then yes, you should be tracking this with some level of reasonable detail.0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
That's not the fault of calorie counting.0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history
Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history
Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?
"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
That's not the fault of calorie counting.
And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.0 -
Calorie counting is the only reason I have lost 103 pounds. Without it, I would still be morbidly obese. It keeps me accountable and aware of everything I eat. It is now my way of life. Before I started counting, I could absolutely convince myself that I was "eating less and moving more" and there just must be something wrong with me because I wasn't losing weight. Counting calories was an eye opener and I will be doing it for the rest of my life in order to maintain my weight loss.0
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jennifer_417 wrote: »frankiesgirlie wrote: »For me MFP has demystified weight loss. It not any magic pill, or special combination of foods, or cutting out any certain food, or ancient Chinese secret tea. It is quite simply calories in vs calories out. The only thing to figure out is how to structure your allotted calories in a way you can live with forever.
Also, this.^^^
This too.
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It seems most people swing the pendulum one way or the other without finding the happy spot if they don't count calories. You are either eating enough for 2 small families or you are starving yourself sick. Knowing exactly how much you can eat is just so much easier.0
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HappyCampr1 wrote: »I think they should teach it to everybody growing up, so people would know how to control their own weight when needed instead of wasting years being fat and/or wasting hard earned money and effort on things that don't work and end up just frustrating the person.
When I learned calorie counting, it was like the lightbulb went off over my head and the sun came out and shined, lol. I can't thank MFP enough for changing my life.
This is EXACTLY how I feel. It was a real 'eureka!' moment!0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history
Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?
"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."
...Or hangs out with druggies, among other things, I would imagine
But wow. Guess it's a good thing MFP updated their code to not display weight loss prediction for those consuming dangerously low amounts of food. It seems calorie counting would be more useful for people who love food so much that their survival instincts kick in when they're not having enough.
I do agree with every single suggestion to somehow present the user with some up front education on calorie target selection. It seems to be the answer to so many questions raised by users who struggle - why not present it up front?
Finally, as evidenced by preference and also repeat weight losers, we definitely know the tool is not a magic bullet that absolutely works for everyone the first time. Even I will be working on shifting some holiday pounds come January. But surely you're not saying that once you learn about nutrition (eat your fruit and veg, done?), you'll magically be able to keep the weight off? The bags of grapes I used to routinely consume over the course of a couple days would beg to differ0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
That's not the fault of calorie counting.
And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.
I am working hard to lose weight. Counting calories is part of my success. Definitely could do it without counting calories but see no reason to make it harder on myself. MFP makes eating at a deficit easier. Nothing wrong with using tools to make life easier.0 -
susan100df wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
That's not the fault of calorie counting.
And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.
I am working hard to lose weight. Counting calories is part of my success. Definitely could do it without counting calories but see no reason to make it harder on myself. MFP makes eating at a deficit easier. Nothing wrong with using tools to make life easier.
And calorie counting was a large part of my failure.0 -
frankiesgirlie wrote: »For me MFP has demystified weight loss. It not any magic pill, or special combination of foods, or cutting out any certain food, or ancient Chinese secret tea. It is quite simply calories in vs calories out. The only thing to figure out is how to structure your allotted calories in a way you can live with forever.
This. It's so beautifully simple and actually sustainable to an enjoyable and "normal" life, whereas most diets and food "rules" taught to me as a child and teen were absurd and impossible to follow.
Beyond that, calorie counting is so soothing to my control-triggered anxiety. Rituals help me feel comfortable and safe and in control of my life. I took a break for about six weeks there, and while the first day back always suuuucks so much, the sense of calm and control that hits me in the second or third day is great.0 -
whaddupw8loss wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
That's not the fault of calorie counting.
And it's not the fault of calorie counting if you have success.
You seem very defensive about calorie counting and this app/site. I have to wonder if this community is a positive place for you, given your negative experiences. I know you keep qualifying trying to say that you aren't saying it's wrong for everyone, but your words and the intent behind them seem to be very pessimistic about the odds of success for the average person using this site for calorie counting AND learning how to be healthier, when in fact it is working for SO many people.
MFP is not always a good fit for everyone, particularly those who have had an eating disorder or in recovery for one.
I wish you continued success with your health, fitness and educational goals, whatever path you choose.
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Probably a necessary evil. I'll probably alternate between trying to eat intuitively (not counting) and calorie counting when I get to a weight I'm happy with. I'm not trying to get my body fat as low as a lot of dudes here so I'm hopeful I'll be able to pull it off.0
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whaddupw8loss wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »whaddupw8loss wrote: »In response to all: I never said that CICO isn't the way to lose weight. I said, there's a lot more to it that would prohibit the weight loss only using the base of CICO. Yes, obviously there is going to be a loss of weight with any calorie deficit. However, there are PLENTY of people who stop calorie counting once they achieve their desired weight and gain it all back. Why? Because they never formed healthy eating, they only formed reducing calories. I'm not saying that anyone has to only eat healthy, of course you should be able to have treats or unhealthy foods in moderation. Now for those of you who have learned better eating habits from MFP, good for you. I never said you couldn't. In fact, there are people who do. But there are plenty more people who don't have that experience. I don't know how many posts I've read where they just yo-yo and yo-yo, because it's hard to maintain eating junk food with no nutrients at a deficit, your body inevitably gets hungry. You eat, and sometimes you eat WAY too much due to this. So, no. Calorie counting is not the devil, it can be VERY beneficial. However, I don't seem to find too many overweight, calorie-counting, avid MFP users who have a well balanced diet, with nutrients. Obviously there is a reason people get obese, or overweight. If it's from junk food, then they cannot continue eating like *kitten*, and expecting life long results. Yes, you can restrict and eat like *kitten*, but how long will that last. Just take a look at how many "I fell off the bandwagon...again" posts you see on this site. So, if this site manages to give you the right tools you need to be healthier, then great. My original post was NOT ABOUT YOU. "If it doesn't apply to you, then don't get insulted by it."
Also, there are other calorie counting sites that don't require you to purchase a "premium" account to enable you to use all of it's offered tools. If you think this site isn't to line the pockets of the creator, then I believe you're misguided. Weight loss is a BIG market for making money, the creators of MFP were well aware of that. There are plenty of sites that give you all the tools for free and came way before MFP. MFP hasn't done anything new or special. You could search on google, find ANY calorie counting site, and you'd have the same results on those as you would MFP, it's about the habits of the user, not the site. If the user is determined to lose weight, they'll do so on any calorie counting platform. Weight Watchers, another popular calorie counting mechanism, has such a poor long term success rate, and guess what? When the user "falls off the bandwagon" because they only learned points, and CICO, they go right back to it. Weight loss websites and companies are in it for the money.
It sounds like you are projecting many of your own choices on the community as a whole. Because you chose to eat mostly junk food, weren't satiated, and then gave up doesn't mean that most people do that or that calorie counting and MFP encourages that. In fact, most of the "I gave up but am now back again" posts come from people who have unrealistic expectations about weight loss, whether it be trying to lose weight too fast, trying to restrict entire groups of food (aka cutting out sugars or "white foods" or only eating "clean"). The people who come to MFP, with reasonable expectations and use the tool the way it is designed, are the ones who have long term, sustainable results. If you aren't seeing people who are using this tool with well balanced, nutrient dense diets, and losing weight in the process, then I think you're not looking in the right place
My exact point in the fact that people should learn nutrition before attempting to calorie count?
In theory I agree, but most don't care to, and MFP is an incentive to do so.Remember when MFP would allow you to submit a calorie day under 1200? When you could per say, eat 400 calories, submit your diary and then it'd tell you that if "every day was today...you would be x weight by y day" How isn't that not leading the users into unrealistic expectations, by idk..giving them unhealthy ways to get skinny quick?
Yeah, agreed, but it doesn't anymore.
I fully agree that some users are able to learn nutrition through MFP. But, not all. But heres the thing, some people may come into MFP with an unhealthy diet which includes very little nutrition, so they eat large quantities of the food. Now, those people trying to calorie count and have a deficit, it's going to drive them insane. Which, leads a lot of people to quit. If they simply learned nutrition prior to, it wouldn't be such a leap to cut back on food.
I'm not saying that MFP doesn't work, I'm not saying that it only works if you eat healthy. I'm saying if you aren't use to calorie counting, and your not use to eating foods that will allow you to stay in a deficit, then it's going to feel like you're losing at every angle.
I'm happy that there are success stories, I'm happy that MFP is working for people. But, I'm annoyed by those who have success in it, think there is literally no downside to it. Or that the people will just learn. When in reality, a lot of people give up.
I had the same initial experience sticking to my calorie goal. Went on the forums to do searches basically asking, WTF? How do people do this? Adjusted my calorie goal up a bit, learned some new recipes and the rest is history
Are you blaming the app for your eating disorder(s)?
"A drug addict doesn't become a drug addict until he does drugs."
...Or hangs out with druggies, among other things, I would imagine
But wow. Guess it's a good thing MFP updated their code to not display weight loss prediction for those consuming dangerously low amounts of food. It seems calorie counting would be more useful for people who love food so much that their survival instincts kick in when they're not having enough.
I do agree with every single suggestion to somehow present the user with some up front education on calorie target selection. It seems to be the answer to so many questions raised by users who struggle - why not present it up front?
Finally, as evidenced by preference and also repeat weight losers, we definitely know the tool is not a magic bullet that absolutely works for everyone the first time. Even I will be working on shifting some holiday pounds come January. But surely you're not saying that once you learn about nutrition (eat your fruit and veg, done?), you'll magically be able to keep the weight off? The bags of grapes I used to routinely consume over the course of a couple days would beg to differ
No, I'm not saying nutrition is the only thing. Calorie intake DOES matter. However, calorie counting can turn into an obsession, anorexic people were doing it way before MFP existed. So, I guess people with disorders, or who might find themselves in a disorder after calorie counting, should seek nutrition, and guidance. Whether it's binge eating, ednos, anorexia, bulimia, or plainly just needing more than MFP to understand the vast world of nutrition and calorie counting.
Also, a eating a bag of grapes within two days isn't following nutrition, it's eating a healthy food in excess. (:0
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