"Heavy" lifter....body pump kicked my butt!
Replies
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GuitarJerry wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »GuitarJerry wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
So, I've had an epiphany recently. I can pull 400 from the floor, but swing a 35 lb kettle bell 20 times and I'm so out of breath that I can't even speak. Or, I can't sprint up 3 flights of stairs 10 times without almost having a heart attack. I can't finish an insanity workout. Not even close. The warm up kills me. So, what good is lifting 400 off the floor one time if I'm not functional?
So, I've made a change in my programming. Might be temporary, but I'm lifting 2 days/week. Mon I do squat and bench, and a couple of assistance exercises, and Thursday deadlift and OHP, also with assistance exercises. The other 5 days I'm moving. I change it up. Today I did kettle bells, tomorrow I may do insanity or hill sprints. I keep it fresh and challenging. My new goal is to be athletic and be able to get through an insanity workout and kill it on stair runs. Lifting is one thing, but being strong and athletic is another.
Anyways, we'll see how my little experiment pans out.
In what situation is sprinting up 30 flights of stairs or swinging around a heavy weight functional? However being able to easily lift 400 pounds off the floor is extremely functional if you ever have to move stuff.
Well, being able to carry a keg of beer up a flight of stairs is functional. What I am saying is deadlifting or squatting a lot of weight is one thing, but that's only one aspect of being fit. If you can't do 20 pull ups, I'd say you aren't strong. Functional fitness hits all aspects. I'm addressing the ability of lifting something heavy once, versus lifting something light many times. When I bought my house, the ability to lift light thing many times was far more important and functional. Laying brick, building new walls, etc required both strength, in terms of heavy lifting at times, but also endurance strength, being able to lift hundreds of bricks one at a time, all day long. Heavy lifting has its place and is important. But there's more to fitness than that for me.
One could go their whole life doing one rep of the heavy weight, and be happy, healthy, functional and enjoy life. I'm just saying that for me, I also want to be able to hill sprint without dying. I want to be able to leap flights of stairs effortlessly. It's a different kind of training for that, more athletic.
As I said, I'm still lifting heavy, just doing it less frequently and incorporating a lot of moving type exercises.
It's an experiment. I think in the end, it will make me stronger overall. I should mention that I am 50 and am having mobility issues. So, this is my way of trying to resolve that. Again, no need to get defensive. I'm just trying something. I never said heavy lifting wasn't functional, although I do question the function of squats in real life. Deadlifts are functional, bench press can be, OHP can be, squats are not functional. There is almost no situation where you will load 300 lbs on your back and squat and lift back up again. The closest thing to real life, IMO, are zercher squats. I could see that happening.
I stopped reading at <20 pull-ups not being strong.
Agreed. If you look at top Strongman competitors they won't even hit double digits. Yet, you'd consider them weak despite 1,000 lb deadlifts and other movements for distance and speed with heavy weights. Lol....0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Are you doing any cardio at all? Are you eating less than you burn? If the goal is to look thinner, lifting alone will not help, you can be both overweight and strong. If the disappointment comes from not being able to keep up with the class, then you should work more on endurance?
I do some cardio and while my diet isn't perfect I do tend to stay below my calories. I'm tweaking that, though, because I do feel like MFP is overestimating how much I'm burning while working out, but on the days I'm too strict I don't feel particularly good. Like I said I've lost some weight, have quite a bit more to go...the disappointment was about not being able to keep up with the class in the strength/rep department -- didn't really feel my heart rate spike a ton to be honest -- and then of course seeing a room full of really fit women who I do see around the gym doing lighter weight/higher rep usually, or see them when I pass by the studio and they're doing their aerobics classes. You guys are right that I don't know what they do normally or what they've done to get there...other than assuming it was plenty of work no matter what.
My gym is still pretty frowny when it comes to women lifting "heavy" and I actually still haven't been able to get a trainer to help me with that.
As for my knee/joints, I have seen docs for my issues throughout the years. I will eventually need a knee arthroscopy to clean up some small fragments in there but the doctor would like me at a healthier weight since it's not anything dire. In the meantime his advice was to ice/take NSAIDs as needed if the knee got swollen, elevate, and use my home TENS unit. Which I do when it happens.
You're right, though, and I like the mental comparison of marathon vs sprinting being different types of running. That does make me feel better
A lot comes down to finding a balance and to reaching personal goals.
For example, I would not consider someone overall fit if this person cannot climb 2 flights of stairs to their office, or cannot sprint 100 meters to catch the bus, or needs assistance with bringing the groceries from the car to the kitchen. So, for me, if you cannot complete everyday tasks, because of poor endurance, strength, flexibility, then there is a problem, which of course might or might not be easy to resolve, depending on health issues.
But, if you are in general not restricted in normal tasks, what you need to work more on, comes down to personal preference, and of course to physical limitations. I would be far more proud if I could run a 5k in a decent time, than if I could run a marathon. I get no joy from beating personal lifting records, I am really excited when I can hold a pike plank for a few seconds more than the last time. For someone else, it could be the complete opposite. No one can be perfect at everything.0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Are you doing any cardio at all? Are you eating less than you burn? If the goal is to look thinner, lifting alone will not help, you can be both overweight and strong. If the disappointment comes from not being able to keep up with the class, then you should work more on endurance?
I do some cardio and while my diet isn't perfect I do tend to stay below my calories. I'm tweaking that, though, because I do feel like MFP is overestimating how much I'm burning while working out, but on the days I'm too strict I don't feel particularly good. Like I said I've lost some weight, have quite a bit more to go...the disappointment was about not being able to keep up with the class in the strength/rep department -- didn't really feel my heart rate spike a ton to be honest -- and then of course seeing a room full of really fit women who I do see around the gym doing lighter weight/higher rep usually, or see them when I pass by the studio and they're doing their aerobics classes. You guys are right that I don't know what they do normally or what they've done to get there...other than assuming it was plenty of work no matter what.
My gym is still pretty frowny when it comes to women lifting "heavy" and I actually still haven't been able to get a trainer to help me with that.
As for my knee/joints, I have seen docs for my issues throughout the years. I will eventually need a knee arthroscopy to clean up some small fragments in there but the doctor would like me at a healthier weight since it's not anything dire. In the meantime his advice was to ice/take NSAIDs as needed if the knee got swollen, elevate, and use my home TENS unit. Which I do when it happens.
You're right, though, and I like the mental comparison of marathon vs sprinting being different types of running. That does make me feel better
It's crazy to me that you think a person whose knee swells up at unpredictable times, has a home TENS machine (!), and is certainly having surgery at some point in the nearish future should be on a par with (presumably) fully able-bodied people. You're not like them, you've got these things you have to live with.
It is hard to accept limitations. It sucks. A lot of the "safe" things aren't that fun. But the price often paid for failing to accept the situation is acquiring more limitations, either by aggravating the old injuries or getting new ones because of compensations.
Unfortunately, you are no longer a person who can blithely do any class or off-the-shelf program like everyone else. You have to be mindful of these injuries, and treat them with respect. Do what you can to heal them or work around them. Get expert advice - from either a physiotherapist or a trainer with additional training in rehabilitation (and knowledge and a lot of experience in dealing with and working around your particular injuries).0 -
GuitarJerry wrote: »for what it's worth- I have been exclusively running some variation of power lifting for almost 3 years now...
I would be completely destroyed in a body pump class- and I know it. And I don't feel like I'm less of an athlete for it either.
You can pull weight off the floor, but can you do pull ups? That's my point. A lot of people are imbalanced. They think they are strong, but they really aren't. They have trained to pull from the floor, but they can't pull their own body weight up.
It's completely fine. I was just helping the OP with a different POV. MFP is pretty thick on lifting heavy and leaving out a lot of other considerations. And if you challenge the status quo of heavy lifting, you get lambasted. It's silly. If I want to dance and do yoga, then that's what I'm going to do. No one has to lift heavy and no one has to do body blast. But, for many of us, we get so ingrained in a mindset that we lose sight of our own personal goal. Mine has always been to be athletic and strong. Somewhere I got lost in powerlifting. But, noticed that I can't do stuff I feel like a strong person should be able to do. My goal isn't yours, I'm just addressing the OP and providing perspective.
Yes- I can actually- I can do upwards of 15 in a row.
But the fact I can actually do pull ups or not does not negate the fact I am still a strong lifter.
I'm not strong at everything- but that doesn't cancel out all my other strong.
I am a very good artist- I'm good with charcoal and pencil and oil and acrylic- but I suck at water color- I guess that means i'm not really a good artist if we go by your reasoning.
That type of argument is circular and nonsensical.0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Are you doing any cardio at all? Are you eating less than you burn? If the goal is to look thinner, lifting alone will not help, you can be both overweight and strong. If the disappointment comes from not being able to keep up with the class, then you should work more on endurance?
I do some cardio and while my diet isn't perfect I do tend to stay below my calories. I'm tweaking that, though, because I do feel like MFP is overestimating how much I'm burning while working out, but on the days I'm too strict I don't feel particularly good. Like I said I've lost some weight, have quite a bit more to go...the disappointment was about not being able to keep up with the class in the strength/rep department -- didn't really feel my heart rate spike a ton to be honest -- and then of course seeing a room full of really fit women who I do see around the gym doing lighter weight/higher rep usually, or see them when I pass by the studio and they're doing their aerobics classes. You guys are right that I don't know what they do normally or what they've done to get there...other than assuming it was plenty of work no matter what.
My gym is still pretty frowny when it comes to women lifting "heavy" and I actually still haven't been able to get a trainer to help me with that.
As for my knee/joints, I have seen docs for my issues throughout the years. I will eventually need a knee arthroscopy to clean up some small fragments in there but the doctor would like me at a healthier weight since it's not anything dire. In the meantime his advice was to ice/take NSAIDs as needed if the knee got swollen, elevate, and use my home TENS unit. Which I do when it happens.
You're right, though, and I like the mental comparison of marathon vs sprinting being different types of running. That does make me feel better
It's crazy to me that you think a person whose knee swells up at unpredictable times, has a home TENS machine (!), and is certainly having surgery at some point in the nearish future should be on a par with (presumably) fully able-bodied people. You're not like them, you've got these things you have to live with.
It is hard to accept limitations. It sucks. A lot of the "safe" things aren't that fun. But the price often paid for failing to accept the situation is acquiring more limitations, either by aggravating the old injuries or getting new ones because of compensations.
Unfortunately, you are no longer a person who can blithely do any class or off-the-shelf program like everyone else. You have to be mindful of these injuries, and treat them with respect. Do what you can to heal them or work around them. Get expert advice - from either a physiotherapist or a trainer with additional training in rehabilitation (and knowledge and a lot of experience in dealing with and working around your particular injuries).
It only swells up/acts up when I overdo it, not at "unpredictable" times. I know I'm not able to do certain things because of old injuries, because of my health. It was sitting around eating feeling sorry for myself that partly got me into this mess in the first place. So yes, I do want to push and honestly thought I was stronger than how I did in that class and had a moment of panic that maybe I was going about this all wrong. At one time I spent an entire year in and out of PT for various injuries. I have the ok to work out, and when I push too much, what to do to get back to baseline.
The only "healing" for my knee is to scope it for the "junk in there" and eventually 20 years from now a knee replacement. In the meantime, I just do what he says - lose the weight, get the legs stronger/keep my range of motion, and listen to my body when I push too hard. 0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Are you doing any cardio at all? Are you eating less than you burn? If the goal is to look thinner, lifting alone will not help, you can be both overweight and strong. If the disappointment comes from not being able to keep up with the class, then you should work more on endurance?
I do some cardio and while my diet isn't perfect I do tend to stay below my calories. I'm tweaking that, though, because I do feel like MFP is overestimating how much I'm burning while working out, but on the days I'm too strict I don't feel particularly good. Like I said I've lost some weight, have quite a bit more to go...the disappointment was about not being able to keep up with the class in the strength/rep department -- didn't really feel my heart rate spike a ton to be honest -- and then of course seeing a room full of really fit women who I do see around the gym doing lighter weight/higher rep usually, or see them when I pass by the studio and they're doing their aerobics classes. You guys are right that I don't know what they do normally or what they've done to get there...other than assuming it was plenty of work no matter what.
My gym is still pretty frowny when it comes to women lifting "heavy" and I actually still haven't been able to get a trainer to help me with that.
As for my knee/joints, I have seen docs for my issues throughout the years. I will eventually need a knee arthroscopy to clean up some small fragments in there but the doctor would like me at a healthier weight since it's not anything dire. In the meantime his advice was to ice/take NSAIDs as needed if the knee got swollen, elevate, and use my home TENS unit. Which I do when it happens.
You're right, though, and I like the mental comparison of marathon vs sprinting being different types of running. That does make me feel better
It's crazy to me that you think a person whose knee swells up at unpredictable times, has a home TENS machine (!), and is certainly having surgery at some point in the nearish future should be on a par with (presumably) fully able-bodied people. You're not like them, you've got these things you have to live with.
It is hard to accept limitations. It sucks. A lot of the "safe" things aren't that fun. But the price often paid for failing to accept the situation is acquiring more limitations, either by aggravating the old injuries or getting new ones because of compensations.
Unfortunately, you are no longer a person who can blithely do any class or off-the-shelf program like everyone else. You have to be mindful of these injuries, and treat them with respect. Do what you can to heal them or work around them. Get expert advice - from either a physiotherapist or a trainer with additional training in rehabilitation (and knowledge and a lot of experience in dealing with and working around your particular injuries).
It only swells up/acts up when I overdo it, not at "unpredictable" times. I know I'm not able to do certain things because of old injuries, because of my health. It was sitting around eating feeling sorry for myself that partly got me into this mess in the first place. So yes, I do want to push and honestly thought I was stronger than how I did in that class and had a moment of panic that maybe I was going about this all wrong. At one time I spent an entire year in and out of PT for various injuries. I have the ok to work out, and when I push too much, what to do to get back to baseline.
The only "healing" for my knee is to scope it for the "junk in there" and eventually 20 years from now a knee replacement. In the meantime, I just do what he says - lose the weight, get the legs stronger/keep my range of motion, and listen to my body when I push too hard.
Good, because her post made sense to me and really made me think. I'm glad you have the okay to workout, and understand what it's like to want to do something other than what got us feeling sorry for ourselves while parked on our rear ends
So that said, I do all these classes, and have for years. But coming to think of it, I can't recall a one where I didn't want to punch the instructor the first couple times. They're uncomfortable and the people who are just prancing around like gazelles are annoying because I'm doubled over and they're like, "are we warmed up yet"
But if it's your thing, you'll keep getting sucked back in and will become like any other regular in no time. Whether you stick with heavy lifting or anything else, just proceed at your own pace while challenging yourself appropriately, and listen to your body. 0 -
To the OP. I taught a CardioKickboxing class 4 nights a week for 4 years. It was a hard class. The people who came to it were workout enthusiasts who'd done many variations of that style of workout before. They wanted it to make them groan and sweat, and a competitive first timer to that class (not to exercising in other ways), very seldom if ever, could do all the reps with the weights, all the kicks, and so on.
As someone else mentioned, you should not be expected to be great at a many rep high paced cardio based class unless you've been working at it.
I've been slowly adding weights to my workouts and before work I do weights and after work 3 days a week I do cardio. I like weights and my joints are older and I can't do all the reps of anything that I once could. With your knee take it easy on cardio and give yourself some good rest days. Most of all, have fun doing what you do!0 -
chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »chrysalis2015 wrote: »So I took a body pump class last night...lower weights higher reps. Really high. I thought I'd do so great after all the heavy lifting....WRONG! Knee injury and old rotator cuff tears aside, I still couldn't do a push up, my shoulder gave out on triceps dips, and I felt like jelly. Every single woman in there was in fantastic, fit/thin shape. Every one. I was the only overweight person there.
Have I been doing the wrong thing? These are the cardio/HIIT/"little weights" women...not the "lift heavy it'll work better" group...I am sooooo confused.
Should I just cycle in and out of heavy lifting? Are some people not cut out for heavy lifting? I've seen improvements, but I really want to look like those women.
Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Are you doing any cardio at all? Are you eating less than you burn? If the goal is to look thinner, lifting alone will not help, you can be both overweight and strong. If the disappointment comes from not being able to keep up with the class, then you should work more on endurance?
I do some cardio and while my diet isn't perfect I do tend to stay below my calories. I'm tweaking that, though, because I do feel like MFP is overestimating how much I'm burning while working out, but on the days I'm too strict I don't feel particularly good. Like I said I've lost some weight, have quite a bit more to go...the disappointment was about not being able to keep up with the class in the strength/rep department -- didn't really feel my heart rate spike a ton to be honest -- and then of course seeing a room full of really fit women who I do see around the gym doing lighter weight/higher rep usually, or see them when I pass by the studio and they're doing their aerobics classes. You guys are right that I don't know what they do normally or what they've done to get there...other than assuming it was plenty of work no matter what.
My gym is still pretty frowny when it comes to women lifting "heavy" and I actually still haven't been able to get a trainer to help me with that.
As for my knee/joints, I have seen docs for my issues throughout the years. I will eventually need a knee arthroscopy to clean up some small fragments in there but the doctor would like me at a healthier weight since it's not anything dire. In the meantime his advice was to ice/take NSAIDs as needed if the knee got swollen, elevate, and use my home TENS unit. Which I do when it happens.
You're right, though, and I like the mental comparison of marathon vs sprinting being different types of running. That does make me feel better
It's crazy to me that you think a person whose knee swells up at unpredictable times, has a home TENS machine (!), and is certainly having surgery at some point in the nearish future should be on a par with (presumably) fully able-bodied people. You're not like them, you've got these things you have to live with.
It is hard to accept limitations. It sucks. A lot of the "safe" things aren't that fun. But the price often paid for failing to accept the situation is acquiring more limitations, either by aggravating the old injuries or getting new ones because of compensations.
Unfortunately, you are no longer a person who can blithely do any class or off-the-shelf program like everyone else. You have to be mindful of these injuries, and treat them with respect. Do what you can to heal them or work around them. Get expert advice - from either a physiotherapist or a trainer with additional training in rehabilitation (and knowledge and a lot of experience in dealing with and working around your particular injuries).
It only swells up/acts up when I overdo it, not at "unpredictable" times. I know I'm not able to do certain things because of old injuries, because of my health. It was sitting around eating feeling sorry for myself that partly got me into this mess in the first place. So yes, I do want to push and honestly thought I was stronger than how I did in that class and had a moment of panic that maybe I was going about this all wrong. At one time I spent an entire year in and out of PT for various injuries. I have the ok to work out, and when I push too much, what to do to get back to baseline.
The only "healing" for my knee is to scope it for the "junk in there" and eventually 20 years from now a knee replacement. In the meantime, I just do what he says - lose the weight, get the legs stronger/keep my range of motion, and listen to my body when I push too hard.
That's great, if you are in fact able to listen to your body and not overdo it like in say a Zumba class. Not judging - I've pushed myself further than I should have, too - it's really hard to know what'll do it in different situations, and you learn from everything, right?
I wasn't talking about "feeling sorry for yourself", by the way - I was talking about being responsible for your health and body and rehabbing things that need rehabbing - or working around things that can't be rehabbed - and challenging other things appropriately, just to be clear.
OR if you do a class, you have to learn which movements are going to trip you up and be mindful about that and stop or do something better for you at that time. So you know a bit more about that knee now. A physio or rehab therapist could give you some shortcuts so you don't have to figure things out the hard way.
I am saying this as someone who tried to figure things out the hard way, fwiw. Also sometimes you can't know in advance what'll do it, it's a little surprise.0
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