Low Carb / High Fat Eating Plan
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Back on topic, I am on a healthy low carb ratio: 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. Still sounds like a lot of carb but all fruits and veggies contribute to that. This was advised by a professional for me and I find it easy to put percentages into MFP food goals.0
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Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
You are not seeing a lot of fruits and veggies because they are high in carbs - that is the nature of a low carb, moderate protein (or ketogenic) diet. If I eat more than 15-20 carbs in a 3 hour period, it elevates my blood glucose to a level at which it is likely to damage the beta cells in my pancreas (decreasing the period of time before I become insulin insufficient, not to mention increasing the likelihood I will develop neuropathy). In addition, my mental acuity is much greater when my blood sugar is in the normal (not diabetic normal) range - a totally unexpected bonus of lowering my blood sugar (or eating low carbs. Since the two happened simultaneously, I don't know which caused the change).
Dairy (especially cheese) has fat calories (energy that replaces the energy I'm not getting from carbohydrates), a reasonable fat/protein ratio (to keep the protein at a level it is not doing damage to my kidneys) but no carbs. My bloodwork in March will determine whether having such a high dairy fat content fits within cholesterol management (which, for diabetics, are half of the permissible levels for non-diabetics). If the dangerous LDL particles (the small dense ones) are too high, relative to the remaining numbers (there are two ratios that are key to determining heart health), my doctor and I will adjust my diet. Unlike many doctors, my doctor has a clue about low carb diets, understands the consequences, is ordering the appropriate (non-standard) tests and will work with me to adjust it as needed.
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mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
You don't need to wonder. My diet is being monitored by my GP (with a full range of bloodwork scheduled for March), and I don't log the supplemental vitamins I am taking to fill in the gaps left by things I can't eat because they do much more immediate and long term harm than eating the full range and quantity of grains and vegetables.
Just out of curiosity, do you make the same comment to people on a limited calorie diet - but not specifically low carb - who fill our their calories with a range of food you believe is not nutritionally adequate?
BUMP!0 -
OP do you have a medical condition or advice from your doctor that reducing your carbs is necessary or advisable, or are you looking into LCHF for weight loss and diet adherence?0
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mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
You can start with protein, 1g/lb lean body mass. I eat 115-120g protein.
I try to keep Carbs at 75g or less if I'm trying to lose body fat.
The rest is Fat. It's usually 45-50% of my cals each day.
I stay in a deficit if I consume 1600-1800cals/day ( and moderate exercise)
I lose rapidly doing this, 2lbs/week.
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Some people eat really badly and take supplements but as long as they lose weight they believe it's a-ok, that they go around advising others is worrisome
I wasn't aware that you were privy to the conversations between my doctor and I about diabetes management (or what runs through my mind) that would give you the information needed to make the assessment that I'm "eat[ing] really badly and taking supplements" and believe it is "a-ok" "as long as [ I] lose weight."
In virtually every post (or thread in which I have posted) I have noted that my diet is related to managing diabetes. In many of those I have also included that I am under the care of a doctor who is fully aware of and supports my diet. Although I haven't been explicit about it (because it is not really any of your business), at my last visit he reviewed my food diary for the two preceding months, and we had a detailed discussion about the composition of my diet, what makes sense relative to diabetes, what makes sense relative to the increased risk of coronary artery disease that goes along with diabetes, what makes sense relative to my autoimmune hypothyroid condition, and what makes sense relative to overall health. We will do a similar review in March, along with a full panel of bloodwork (including several non-standard tests) to evaluate what, if anything needs to change.
Although I am also losing weight, I don't need a low carb diet to do that. If all I was interested in was losing weight, my diet would be far simpler - and I would be a much happier camper because I wouldn't have to count or log anything, or consider how dietary fat will impact my cardiovascular risk, or what supplements I need to take because my body cannot tolerate any significant quantity of grains or dense carbs. My sole goal for eating low carb is to slow the progress of my diabetes so I can live another 50 years with all of my fingers, toes, and organs intact, with my sight intact, and without neuropathy. That means keeping my blood glucose within normal ranges, not diabetic normal ranges.
I do encourage people with diabetes or pre-diabetes to explore low carb diets, because it makes it possible for type 2 diabetics to have completely normal blood sugar levels - at any weight. Elevated blood glucose does damage, and allowing it to stay elevated (diabetic "normal") levels while one slowly loses weight in the hope that weighing less will eventually make a difference is a recipe for slow suicide. Eating low carb offers an immediate ability to manage blood glucose, without losing an ounce (and often without medication or insulin). (It is also effective for many type 1 diabetics as a way to to reduce their use of insulin and decrease the incidence of hypoglycemic events).
My doctor is very involved in managing my, so your assumptions about whether my diet is unhealthy are unwarranted, as are your assertion that all I care about is losing weight.0 -
It isn't necessarily a nutrient. Nutrients are things required to live period, not all things known to have health benefits. It is possible that certain phytochemicals making up fruits and vegetables have health benefits without being essential to human life._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Whoa.. wait, I thought that a micronutrient was the same from whatever source. What magical nutrients are only found in fruits and veggies?
Here's what we do. The American Cancer Institutes says that there is overwhelming evidence based on 150+ studies that 5+ surviving of fruit and vegetables reduce cancer risks, and mortality rates.
There are other studies, particularly I remember Harvard's health symposium lectures mentioning one of the, that show that people taking multi-vitamin and mineral supplements don't reliably show any particular decreases in health mortality rates from any outcome.
So, I would now make a subtractive inference. We know fruits and vegetables contain micronutrients and other stuff, and that between those two, they lower mortality incidence. We know know micronutrients on their own do not lower mortality incidence. Disjunctive syllogism seems to give me the inference that something in fruits and vegetables that is not micro-nutrients causes lower mortality incidence.0 -
Hi, I don't have diabetes. But, I have been through a medical injury that has caused many problems including neuropathy. And I need to prevent my insulin from going too high. I don't eat low carb because I am nearly vegan due to a histamine intolerance triggered by the medical injury. I eat one egg yolk a day for B12 (I have a bad reaction to B12 supplements), I have a histamine reaction to the egg white and it increases the neuropathy. I am not trying to lose weight. I actually would prefer to gain at least 5 pounds. My macros are set at 45% carb, 40% fat, 15% protein. Most days I am a bit under on the protein (but it's sufficient for me), and over on fat, my carbs are usually right on target (around 236). I eat vegetables, some fruits, nuts, seeds, coconut milk, quinoa, beans (mainly chikpeas), one egg yolk. Beans also help lower insulin. My calories are set at 2100.0
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It isn't necessarily a nutrient. Nutrients are things required to live period, not all things known to have health benefits. It is possible that certain phytochemicals making up fruits and vegetables have health benefits without being essential to human life._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Whoa.. wait, I thought that a micronutrient was the same from whatever source. What magical nutrients are only found in fruits and veggies?
Here's what we do. The American Cancer Institutes says that there is overwhelming evidence based on 150+ studies that 5+ surviving of fruit and vegetables reduce cancer risks, and mortality rates.
There are other studies, particularly I remember Harvard's health symposium lectures mentioning one of the, that show that people taking multi-vitamin and mineral supplements don't reliably show any particular decreases in health mortality rates from any outcome.
So, I would now make a subtractive inference. We know fruits and vegetables contain micronutrients and other stuff, and that between those two, they lower mortality incidence. We know know micronutrients on their own do not lower mortality incidence. Disjunctive syllogism seems to give me the inference that something in fruits and vegetables that is not micro-nutrients causes lower mortality incidence.
You have implied that these studies proved f/v intake caused reduced cancers and lowered mortality. It may be true, but it is not proven. With that said, I do think there is something there too and beleive whole natural foods are very desirable.
Other foods that contain phytochemicals - foods that most low carbers eat frequently - are nuts, seeds, some legumes, fungi, teas, coffees, wines, cocoa, herbs and spices and also eating in addition to fruits and vegetables. Over focusing on fruit and veggie intake alone for complex plant chemicals isn't really relevant to a low carber who is inclined toward minding something more than just macros.
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It isn't necessarily a nutrient. Nutrients are things required to live period, not all things known to have health benefits. It is possible that certain phytochemicals making up fruits and vegetables have health benefits without being essential to human life._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Whoa.. wait, I thought that a micronutrient was the same from whatever source. What magical nutrients are only found in fruits and veggies?
Here's what we do. The American Cancer Institutes says that there is overwhelming evidence based on 150+ studies that 5+ surviving of fruit and vegetables reduce cancer risks, and mortality rates.
There are other studies, particularly I remember Harvard's health symposium lectures mentioning one of the, that show that people taking multi-vitamin and mineral supplements don't reliably show any particular decreases in health mortality rates from any outcome.
So, I would now make a subtractive inference. We know fruits and vegetables contain micronutrients and other stuff, and that between those two, they lower mortality incidence. We know know micronutrients on their own do not lower mortality incidence. Disjunctive syllogism seems to give me the inference that something in fruits and vegetables that is not micro-nutrients causes lower mortality incidence.
You have implied that these studies proved f/v intake caused reduced cancers and lowered mortality. It may be true, but it is not proven. With that said, I do think there is something there too and beleive whole natural foods are very desirable.
Other foods that contain phytochemicals - foods that most low carbers eat frequently - are nuts, seeds, some legumes, fungi, teas, coffees, wines, cocoa, herbs and spices and also eating in addition to fruits and vegetables. Over focusing on fruit and veggie intake alone for complex plant chemicals isn't really relevant to a low carber who is inclined toward minding something more than just macros.
It was enough to prove it to the American Cancer Institute. If you want to be hung up on what is proof, I have to tell you, there is no positive proof in science, it isn't how it works. All science can ever say is "we haven't found a contradicting evidence, yet".
The problem with the laundry list of items you've noted in ketogenic diets is ... they aren't fruits and vegetables, so we can't extrapolate that even if it is phytochemicals, that those things contain the phytochemicals that fruits and vegetables contain. The leading hypotheses tend to be that various phytochemicals have various health benefits, so that eating a variety, particularly a variety of colors, is important. In contrast, low carb, and particularly ketogenic diets are rather ... monochromatic.
I wonder, would a dog on ketogenic diet with mushrooms and coffee get the same benefits as a human does from a variety of fruits and vegetables?0 -
True in terms of how people get their nutrition. Maybe if you ate the high GI foods as part of a balanced meal of MACROS your blood glucose reading would be different. Have you checked your blood glucose prior to and post workouts? Are you checking in the AM when you first wake-up? You referenced above a variety of foods you consume to get your nutritional needs met. In the last 6 months do you have any idea how many days you eat berries and/or nuts? Is it daily, once every 3 days, once every 30 days? I think people get a better understanding of various approaches when those speaking about it are honest in their claims. This hopefully can shed light on your dietary restrictions and provide insight for people who are in your similar situation.
My point is that a healthy diet varies depending on the individual and his or her circumstances. 5-8 serving of fruit and vegetables, especially high GI produce, is enough to raise my blood glucose, which would lead to inflammation and decreased health and possible health complications over time. We all know nutrition is not one size fits all._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.0 -
Yes. It is often slightly elevated immediately after and seems to slowly dip to a bit lower. Exercise is helpful to most with insulin resistance._Terrapin_ wrote: »
True in terms of how people get their nutrition. Maybe if you ate the high GI foods as part of a balanced meal of MACROS your blood glucose reading would be different. Have you checked your blood glucose prior to and post workouts?.
My point is that a healthy diet varies depending on the individual and his or her circumstances. 5-8 serving of fruit and vegetables, especially high GI produce, is enough to raise my blood glucose, which would lead to inflammation and decreased health and possible health complications over time. We all know nutrition is not one size fits all._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Everyday. My FBG is often my highest reading of the day._Terrapin_ wrote: »
Are you checking in the AM when you first wake-up?.
My point is that a healthy diet varies depending on the individual and his or her circumstances. 5-8 serving of fruit and vegetables, especially high GI produce, is enough to raise my blood glucose, which would lead to inflammation and decreased health and possible health complications over time. We all know nutrition is not one size fits all._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers._Terrapin_ wrote: »
You referenced above a variety of foods you consume to get your nutritional needs met. In the last 6 months do you have any idea how many days you eat berries and/or nuts? Is it daily, once every 3 days, once every 30 days? I think people get a better understanding of various approaches when those speaking about it are honest in their claims. This hopefully can shed light on your dietary restrictions and provide insight for people who are in your similar situation.
My point is that a healthy diet varies depending on the individual and his or her circumstances. 5-8 serving of fruit and vegetables, especially high GI produce, is enough to raise my blood glucose, which would lead to inflammation and decreased health and possible health complications over time. We all know nutrition is not one size fits all._Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Nuts? Most day of the week I have some. Berries I eat with less frequency in the winter because of quality and cost - I dislike spending $6 for what looks like 15 blackberries. So, in the last six months I am guessing I ate nuts or berries a good 150 days.... Probably more than most people.
This is a ketogenic diet though. This is the low end of the carb spectrum like a vegan, or someone on the ornish or pritkin diet would be on the high end. I may eat 20g of carbs per day, which yesterday was an orange, celery, and snap peas ( and some artichoke in a dip) but other low carbers may be eating 100+ g more carbs than me in a day. That is a large amount of veggies!
Yes there are some low carbers who would only eat bacon and cheese, but they are not the norm. Just like people who follow moderation will usually eat a variety of healthy foods, but not everybody does. There really is no need to assume the worst when someone cuts carbs. Usually sugars are the first to go followed by baked goods, neither of which are particularly nutritious compared to meat, eggs, veggies or nuts.
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This was posted as a joke on a low carb thread. The low carbers had a good laugh over it
Then it was pointed out that that was exactly what some people thought low carb actually looked like. Much less funny. Ignorance of a low carb diet is not uncommon, and gets very very tiresome.
So someone else posted the picture below.
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Whoa.. wait, I thought that a micronutrient was the same from whatever source. What magical nutrients are only found in fruits and veggies?
It's not clear that the benefits of veg and fruit is merely the micros we've identified, and--more to the point--there seems to be a benefit from getting them from food and not merely supplements. Sure, many of them can be gotten from a few other foods, like organ meats, but few of the extreme low carbers who insist that veg aren't important stress the importance of getting in organ meats, from my experience on MFP. To clarify, my argument isn't with people who do low carb and also focus on getting in veg, it's with the common advice to newbies interested in low carb and argument in the low carb/keto threads that vegetables are not needed or important. There are a very few people with specific dietary problems who may have digestive issues with veg, but that's rare.
Also, the idea that there's this huge diversity in what's healthy so for some eating mostly cheese and pepperoni and coffee filled with oil and butter and ignoring the recommendations for adequate vegetable servings and the benefits associated therein is not correct (and that is based on specific menu plans being discussed here, not some imagined idea of how low carbers eat -- it obviously does not apply to all low carbers, but seems to be popular among the major evangelists hereabouts). Now, being overweight is one of the worst things, so if someone really can lose weight with such a strategy nutrition might not be the number one priority, but at a certain point it is important.
Here's a good discussion of what the general agreement among nutrition experts is: http://bigthink.com/videos/david-katz-on-what-we-know-about-diet1 -
Back on topic, I am on a healthy low carb ratio: 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat. Still sounds like a lot of carb but all fruits and veggies contribute to that. This was advised by a professional for me and I find it easy to put percentages into MFP food goals.
I did that ratio for a while -- I find I fall into it pretty naturally when I eat at a deficit if I focus on getting in my protein, healthy fats, and lots of vegetables. I increased carbs when I increased calories (since I didn't benefit from more protein or fat and do a lot of cardio and found including more carbs was helpful). Anyway, I don't personally consider it low carb.0 -
Just out of curiosity, do you make the same comment to people on a limited calorie diet - but not specifically low carb - who fill our their calories with a range of food you believe is not nutritionally adequate?
Only if they're not eating any fruit or veggies.
Obviously I'm not familiar with your health issues but I can't wrap my head around the fact that some people don't eat veggies because of the carbs.1 -
Just out of curiosity, do you make the same comment to people on a limited calorie diet - but not specifically low carb - who fill our their calories with a range of food you believe is not nutritionally adequate?
Only if they're not eating any fruit or veggies.
Obviously I'm not familiar with your health issues but I can't wrap my head around the fact that some people don't eat veggies because of the carbs.
I can't wrap my head around folks not eating veggies. Period. I see a lot of diaries here, even some of our more outspoken folks, without any real veggies save french fries (or fruits save pizza sauce).0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Hmm, meta-studies as opposed to actual diet trials. There are a number of issues with this statistical epidemiology, whenever I see "fruits and vegetables" or other conflations like "red and processed meat" I am suspicious that the combination is being used to produce an outcome - red meat had no effect, processed did, so lump the two together and make a claim.
High levels of fruit intake were associated with ovarian cancer in one study (EPIC-OXFORD) whereas vegetables were protective (individual fruits and veg had various risk factors). By combining "fruit and veg" they could say "increased fruit and veg is associated with reduced cancer risk" in the headline, whle in the depths of the study owning up to the reality that vegetables were protective and high levels of fruit intake associated with increased cancer risk in this instance.
As for 5 to 8 servings of fruit and veg can I ask how many people eat this much, or is it just an extrapolation by an algorithm ? In the UK less than 30% of the population get to 5-a-day and it looks to be lower in the USA (although the scheme parameters vary by country).
Where are these 5-8 portions a day people, and are they confounded by being non-smoking wealthy teetotallers with health as their #1 priority ? Are they a statistically significant sample on which to base any policy ?0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Hmm, meta-studies as opposed to actual diet trials. There are a number of issues with this statistical epidemiology, whenever I see "fruits and vegetables" or other conflations like "red and processed meat" I am suspicious that the combination is being used to produce an outcome - red meat had no effect, processed did, so lump the two together and make a claim.
High levels of fruit intake were associated with ovarian cancer in one study (EPIC-OXFORD) whereas vegetables were protective (individual fruits and veg had various risk factors). By combining "fruit and veg" they could say "increased fruit and veg is associated with reduced cancer risk" in the headline, whle in the depths of the study owning up to the reality that vegetables were protective and high levels of fruit intake associated with increased cancer risk in this instance.
As for 5 to 8 servings of fruit and veg can I ask how many people eat this much, or is it just an extrapolation by an algorithm ? In the UK less than 30% of the population get to 5-a-day and it looks to be lower in the USA (although the scheme parameters vary by country).
Where are these 5-8 portions a day people, and are they confounded by being non-smoking wealthy teetotallers with health as their #1 priority ? Are they a statistically significant sample on which to base any policy ?
Because the UK and the US are such a good example of healthy eating!
I opened this thread because I'm looking for example of low carb diets for those hungry PMS days, but I'm suspicious when I see so few veggies in a diary (not a lot of fruit I can understand though).0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »mirandadawn2 wrote: »Hi everyone!
I was wondering if anyone has any advice on how I can figure my percentages for low carb & higher fat and protein intake. What would be the best way to figure this out? Thanks for any advice you can give! :-)
My diary is open. I'm eating (generally) fewer than 50 net carbs - no more than 15-20 in a 3 hour period. (The quantity depends on how my blood glucose meter reacts.)
I have to wonder what you're getting your vitamins from, honestly.
Probably from quality meats, dairy, eggs, nuts, vegetables, berries and maybe a multivitamin. It isn't hard to get the nutrients you need without fortified grains (essentially vitamins added to food) or tropical fruits.
Yeah but I looked at that diary and I'm not seeing a lot of fruit and veggies. That's why I'm wondering if such a diet is healthy.
A lot of veggies or fruits (especially) are not required for good health. Other quality foods beyond produce are nutritious as well. Meats, dairy, nuts and eggs are very nutritious foods.
So what is good health? If 5 to 8 daily servings of fruit and vegetables reduces your chance of stroke and heart disease by 30% this is what?!? Wrong?!? I think you want to define things to meet your extreme restrictions of your diet. Unfortunately, meta studies have proven 5 to 8 servings daily of fruit and vegetables improve many health markers.
Hmm, meta-studies as opposed to actual diet trials. There are a number of issues with this statistical epidemiology, whenever I see "fruits and vegetables" or other conflations like "red and processed meat" I am suspicious that the combination is being used to produce an outcome - red meat had no effect, processed did, so lump the two together and make a claim.
High levels of fruit intake were associated with ovarian cancer in one study (EPIC-OXFORD) whereas vegetables were protective (individual fruits and veg had various risk factors). By combining "fruit and veg" they could say "increased fruit and veg is associated with reduced cancer risk" in the headline, whle in the depths of the study owning up to the reality that vegetables were protective and high levels of fruit intake associated with increased cancer risk in this instance.
As for 5 to 8 servings of fruit and veg can I ask how many people eat this much, or is it just an extrapolation by an algorithm ? In the UK less than 30% of the population get to 5-a-day and it looks to be lower in the USA (although the scheme parameters vary by country).
Where are these 5-8 portions a day people, and are they confounded by being non-smoking wealthy teetotallers with health as their #1 priority ? Are they a statistically significant sample on which to base any policy ?
Because the UK and the US are such a good example of healthy eating!
I opened this thread because I'm looking for example of low carb diets for those hungry PMS days, but I'm suspicious when I see so few veggies in a diary (not a lot of fruit I can understand though).
It varies between people, between different keto'ers, between different low carbers. You know this. A keto'er with difficult to manage insulin resistance will have a different diet than someone eating low carb. The low carber might have five or seven times as many carbs.
The diary you keep mentioning belongs to a keto'er (very low carb) with insulin resistance who has a doctor monitoring his diet and health. It's probably going to look a little different than someone considering low carb to improve pms.
Take a look at Peter Attia's blog. He is an md, marathon swimmer and someone who has eaten a mainly ketogenic diet for a few years. Every year he'll post his diet for about a week. The other blogs of whay he eats are in his list of top posts. http://eatingacademy.com/personal/actually-eat-part-iii-circa-q1-2014 it often tends to include salads "the size of his head".0
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