There are 'BAD' foods
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rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
As for the multivitamin, yes that is true, although one would miss out on other components that certain foods (particularly fruits and vegetables) provide.rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »Aside from those with very high calorie requirements (over 3500 calories a day), it's extremely difficult to get 100% of every single micronutrient and still eat those foods.
Well, firstly you could just take a multivitamin and be done with it - that is pretty much assured to get you to your RDAs on vitamins and minerals.
Secondly, though, it's not nearly as hard to meet your micronutrients as most people think, at least over time. The whole "micro" point is that only very small amounts are needed. You also don't need to meet every RDA every single day, but average over time.
When it comes to magnesium and potassium, those are very tricky to meet the RDAs from food alone. I've heard it said on here that because those nutrients aren't listed in many foods, a lot of people probably meet the recommendations. However, looking at a lot of the diaries from others on here, I have a hard time believing that.
Potassium doesn't even have an RDA in the US.
According to the Mayo Clinic, the reason potassium is not included on nutritional labels and has no RDA is because deficiency is extremely uncommon. Potassium is found in almost all foods, and pretty much all meat, some dairy (milk and yogurt), and many fruits and vegetables have good amounts of potassium.
Magnesium is another one that is typically hard to actually be deficient in, since your body can stockpile excess in your bones, and the kidneys are good at moderating the amount of magnesium that is excreted in your urine.
I've never read anywhere that it is hard to be deficient in magnesium, in fact completely the opposite is said routinely. Where are you getting your info on magnesium deficiency as I could not locate anything stating that it is hard to be deficient in !magnesium.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
As for the multivitamin, yes that is true, although one would miss out on other components that certain foods (particularly fruits and vegetables) provide.rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »Aside from those with very high calorie requirements (over 3500 calories a day), it's extremely difficult to get 100% of every single micronutrient and still eat those foods.
Well, firstly you could just take a multivitamin and be done with it - that is pretty much assured to get you to your RDAs on vitamins and minerals.
Secondly, though, it's not nearly as hard to meet your micronutrients as most people think, at least over time. The whole "micro" point is that only very small amounts are needed. You also don't need to meet every RDA every single day, but average over time.
When it comes to magnesium and potassium, those are very tricky to meet the RDAs from food alone. I've heard it said on here that because those nutrients aren't listed in many foods, a lot of people probably meet the recommendations. However, looking at a lot of the diaries from others on here, I have a hard time believing that.
Potassium doesn't even have an RDA in the US.
According to the Mayo Clinic, the reason potassium is not included on nutritional labels and has no RDA is because deficiency is extremely uncommon. Potassium is found in almost all foods, and pretty much all meat, some dairy (milk and yogurt), and many fruits and vegetables have good amounts of potassium.
Magnesium is another one that is typically hard to actually be deficient in, since your body can stockpile excess in your bones, and the kidneys are good at moderating the amount of magnesium that is excreted in your urine.
I've never read anywhere that it is hard to be deficient in magnesium, in fact completely the opposite is said routinely. Where are you getting your info on magnesium deficiency as I could not locate anything stating that it is hard to be deficient in !magnesium.
From the NIH:
"Symptomatic magnesium deficiency due to low dietary intake in otherwise-healthy people is uncommon because the kidneys limit urinary excretion of this mineral [3]. However, habitually low intakes or excessive losses of magnesium due to certain health conditions, chronic alcoholism, and/or the use of certain medications can lead to magnesium deficiency."0 -
. If they are not meeting their nutritional needs, it is because they chose not to. [/quote]
Or they don't have the tools, knowledge, and means to do so.
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There are foods I consider treats and foods I consider "not worth it". Pretty much everything else is fair game to be consumed as long as I like the taste of it.
When I'm actively dieting a lot more foods cross into the treats/not worth it column.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »RDAs for nutrients are listed here http://www.thirdplanetfood.com/rda.htm
I already know I don't get 100% of the RDA for potassium and magnesium, and this is with eating numerous foods made from scratch and less processed than many of the foods I see in others' diaries.
I don't think that most people are necessarily deficient in these micros, but rather eating the RDA would provide more optimal health. I'm not saying that people need to be eating more than the RDA, but again my point is that I don't think most people are getting the RDA for these two nutrients.
Those aren't RDAs, site author states that in parathesis she's substituted other values (AI) for these. Not the same thing. At all.
AIs generally represent what an average individual may get on a ref diet. Not a need.0 -
a lot of people justify their unhealthy habits and weights by stating that there are no bad foods, lifting heavy is all you need etc etc.....i think it is more than anything else just an effort to justify in their own minds their suboptimal choices regarding food and exercise. results don't lie though so visually you are able to see who is who.0
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a lot of people justify their unhealthy habits and weights by stating that there are no bad foods, lifting heavy is all you need etc etc.....i think it is more than anything else just an effort to justify in their own minds their suboptimal choices regarding food and exercise. results don't lie though so visually you are able to see who is who.
Yea, it has nothing to do with the perfect health markets and high fives from my doctor...
#proofisinthepudding
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.If they are not meeting their nutritional needs, it is because they chose not to.
Or they don't have the tools, knowledge, and means to do so.
With the exception of people living in poverty, I find it hard to believe that people who are using this site are unable to access the information needed to make informed choices. Trying to sort though the excessive amounts of misinformation is another thing altogether though.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
As for the multivitamin, yes that is true, although one would miss out on other components that certain foods (particularly fruits and vegetables) provide.rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »Aside from those with very high calorie requirements (over 3500 calories a day), it's extremely difficult to get 100% of every single micronutrient and still eat those foods.
Well, firstly you could just take a multivitamin and be done with it - that is pretty much assured to get you to your RDAs on vitamins and minerals.
Secondly, though, it's not nearly as hard to meet your micronutrients as most people think, at least over time. The whole "micro" point is that only very small amounts are needed. You also don't need to meet every RDA every single day, but average over time.
When it comes to magnesium and potassium, those are very tricky to meet the RDAs from food alone. I've heard it said on here that because those nutrients aren't listed in many foods, a lot of people probably meet the recommendations. However, looking at a lot of the diaries from others on here, I have a hard time believing that.
Potassium doesn't even have an RDA in the US.
According to the Mayo Clinic, the reason potassium is not included on nutritional labels and has no RDA is because deficiency is extremely uncommon. Potassium is found in almost all foods, and pretty much all meat, some dairy (milk and yogurt), and many fruits and vegetables have good amounts of potassium.
Magnesium is another one that is typically hard to actually be deficient in, since your body can stockpile excess in your bones, and the kidneys are good at moderating the amount of magnesium that is excreted in your urine.
This.
Also, when I logged for a while on cronometer using the USDA information (which does include these) I found that I typically easily met the amount that crono had as the default goal.
Anyway, as others have said, there are bad diets, not bad foods (other than things that are actively harmful at small doses -- I do avoid transfats). I might call something I dislike a bad food on occasion too, can't promise I haven't.
I ran 17.2 miles today and did some extra walking too, so I happily ate a toasted ham and cheese miga sandwich and turkey and cheese on a croissant (both from a little bakery), followed by a piece of my friend's pumpkin bread. Those are things I don't eat all that often, but I certainly don't think they were bad. (They were delicious.)0 -
I'm not disputing that, but there are some things that aren't routinely checked at a general checkup. I went in for a checkup a few months ago and found out that my body's glucose regulation is not behaving perfectly. But the particular test used to diagnose this is not one that most people would get tested on (unless there is a reason to suspect that the patient is having blood glucose issues). The key thing is that I had no idea at all that my body wasn't regulating glucose properly. I didn't have any symptoms that I thought would indicate it, and my doctor wasn't necessarily going to use that particular test if I hadn't requested it. I'm just using this as a personal example to say that it's possible to get a regular checkup and miss something that's not right.a lot of people justify their unhealthy habits and weights by stating that there are no bad foods, lifting heavy is all you need etc etc.....i think it is more than anything else just an effort to justify in their own minds their suboptimal choices regarding food and exercise. results don't lie though so visually you are able to see who is who.
Yea, it has nothing to do with the perfect health markets and high fives from my doctor...
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Another thing with potassium and sodium as well: in people with hypertension, increasing potassium and decreasing sodium do have an effect on blood pressure (although not huge - on the order of 5 mmHg improvement). In people with normal blood pressure, however, increasing potassium or decreasing sodium have no measurable effect.
That's why I really don't care about potassium. It's trivially simple to get enough to not be deficient, and since my blood pressure is normal, there's no documented benefit to me to have a high potassium diet.0 -
rankinsect wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
As for the multivitamin, yes that is true, although one would miss out on other components that certain foods (particularly fruits and vegetables) provide.rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »Aside from those with very high calorie requirements (over 3500 calories a day), it's extremely difficult to get 100% of every single micronutrient and still eat those foods.
Well, firstly you could just take a multivitamin and be done with it - that is pretty much assured to get you to your RDAs on vitamins and minerals.
Secondly, though, it's not nearly as hard to meet your micronutrients as most people think, at least over time. The whole "micro" point is that only very small amounts are needed. You also don't need to meet every RDA every single day, but average over time.
When it comes to magnesium and potassium, those are very tricky to meet the RDAs from food alone. I've heard it said on here that because those nutrients aren't listed in many foods, a lot of people probably meet the recommendations. However, looking at a lot of the diaries from others on here, I have a hard time believing that.
Potassium doesn't even have an RDA in the US.
According to the Mayo Clinic, the reason potassium is not included on nutritional labels and has no RDA is because deficiency is extremely uncommon. Potassium is found in almost all foods, and pretty much all meat, some dairy (milk and yogurt), and many fruits and vegetables have good amounts of potassium.
Magnesium is another one that is typically hard to actually be deficient in, since your body can stockpile excess in your bones, and the kidneys are good at moderating the amount of magnesium that is excreted in your urine.
I've never read anywhere that it is hard to be deficient in magnesium, in fact completely the opposite is said routinely. Where are you getting your info on magnesium deficiency as I could not locate anything stating that it is hard to be deficient in !magnesium.
From the NIH:
"Symptomatic magnesium deficiency due to low dietary intake in otherwise-healthy people is uncommon because the kidneys limit urinary excretion of this mineral [3]. However, habitually low intakes or excessive losses of magnesium due to certain health conditions, chronic alcoholism, and/or the use of certain medications can lead to magnesium deficiency."
Key word there is symptomatic.
Also from same page -
Magnesium Intakes and Status
Dietary surveys of people in the United States consistently show that intakes of magnesium are lower than recommended amounts. An analysis of data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) of 2005–2006 found that a majority of Americans of all ages ingest less magnesium from food than their respective EARs; adult men aged 71 years and older and adolescent females are most likely to have low intakes [21]. In a study using data from NHANES 2003–2006 to assess mineral intakes among adults, average intakes of magnesium from food alone were higher among users of dietary supplements (350 mg for men and 267 mg for women, equal to or slightly exceeding their respective EARs) than among nonusers (268 mg for men and 234 for women) [22]. When supplements were included, average total intakes of magnesium were 449 mg for men and 387 mg for women, well above EAR levels.
No current data on magnesium status in the United States are available. Determining dietary intake of magnesium is the usual proxy for assessing magnesium status. NHANES has not determined serum magnesium levels in its participants since 1974 [23], and magnesium is not evaluated in routine electrolyte testing in hospitals and clinics [2].
Surveys show less than recommended, they don't measure and there is no good effective way to measure. It is up to you.0 -
Full fat dairy products are not bad for you. In fact, fat is vital to a healthy body and helps with satiety.0
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rankinsect wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
As for the multivitamin, yes that is true, although one would miss out on other components that certain foods (particularly fruits and vegetables) provide.rankinsect wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »Aside from those with very high calorie requirements (over 3500 calories a day), it's extremely difficult to get 100% of every single micronutrient and still eat those foods.
Well, firstly you could just take a multivitamin and be done with it - that is pretty much assured to get you to your RDAs on vitamins and minerals.
Secondly, though, it's not nearly as hard to meet your micronutrients as most people think, at least over time. The whole "micro" point is that only very small amounts are needed. You also don't need to meet every RDA every single day, but average over time.
When it comes to magnesium and potassium, those are very tricky to meet the RDAs from food alone. I've heard it said on here that because those nutrients aren't listed in many foods, a lot of people probably meet the recommendations. However, looking at a lot of the diaries from others on here, I have a hard time believing that.
Potassium doesn't even have an RDA in the US.
According to the Mayo Clinic, the reason potassium is not included on nutritional labels and has no RDA is because deficiency is extremely uncommon. Potassium is found in almost all foods, and pretty much all meat, some dairy (milk and yogurt), and many fruits and vegetables have good amounts of potassium.
Magnesium is another one that is typically hard to actually be deficient in, since your body can stockpile excess in your bones, and the kidneys are good at moderating the amount of magnesium that is excreted in your urine.
I've never read anywhere that it is hard to be deficient in magnesium, in fact completely the opposite is said routinely. Where are you getting your info on magnesium deficiency as I could not locate anything stating that it is hard to be deficient in !magnesium.
From the NIH:
"Symptomatic magnesium deficiency due to low dietary intake in otherwise-healthy people is uncommon because the kidneys limit urinary excretion of this mineral [3]. However, habitually low intakes or excessive losses of magnesium due to certain health conditions, chronic alcoholism, and/or the use of certain medications can lead to magnesium deficiency."
Key word there is symptomatic.
Also from same page -
Magnesium Intakes and Status
Dietary surveys of people in the United States consistently show that intakes of magnesium are lower than recommended amounts. An analysis of data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) of 2005–2006 found that a majority of Americans of all ages ingest less magnesium from food than their respective EARs; adult men aged 71 years and older and adolescent females are most likely to have low intakes [21]. In a study using data from NHANES 2003–2006 to assess mineral intakes among adults, average intakes of magnesium from food alone were higher among users of dietary supplements (350 mg for men and 267 mg for women, equal to or slightly exceeding their respective EARs) than among nonusers (268 mg for men and 234 for women) [22]. When supplements were included, average total intakes of magnesium were 449 mg for men and 387 mg for women, well above EAR levels.
No current data on magnesium status in the United States are available. Determining dietary intake of magnesium is the usual proxy for assessing magnesium status. NHANES has not determined serum magnesium levels in its participants since 1974 [23], and magnesium is not evaluated in routine electrolyte testing in hospitals and clinics [2].
Surveys show less than recommended, they don't measure and there is no good effective way to measure. It is up to you.
Eating below RDA =/= deficient. Even discounting the approximately 20% buffer that all RDAs have built in, the RDAs are typically significantly higher than true biological needs. Sometimes (as in the case of potassium) this is because there is some secondary benefit beyond merely avoiding nutrient deficiency. Often it's just because many of the RDAs are not well supported by solid science; they tend to be the opinions of panels of nutrition experts, not the results of carefully controlled studies.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I'm not disputing that, but there are some things that aren't routinely checked at a general checkup. I went in for a checkup a few months ago and found out that my body's glucose regulation is not behaving perfectly. But the particular test used to diagnose this is not one that most people would get tested on (unless there is a reason to suspect that the patient is having blood glucose issues). The key thing is that I had no idea at all that my body wasn't regulating glucose properly. I didn't have any symptoms that I thought would indicate it, and my doctor wasn't necessarily going to use that particular test if I hadn't requested it. I'm just using this as a personal example to say that it's possible to get a regular checkup and miss something that's not right.a lot of people justify their unhealthy habits and weights by stating that there are no bad foods, lifting heavy is all you need etc etc.....i think it is more than anything else just an effort to justify in their own minds their suboptimal choices regarding food and exercise. results don't lie though so visually you are able to see who is who.
Yea, it has nothing to do with the perfect health markets and high fives from my doctor...
Who said regular check up? Some of us take it upon ourselves to get full blood panels ran on a regular basis to make sure everything is in check. Just as you did. Remember, the folks on the side of there are good/bad are the ones that are speaking in absolutes. All I have to show is that if just one person can be perfectly healthy eating "bad" foods in moderation then the good/bad debate should be over as an absolute term which is what this thread set out to "preach".
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I have to say, good job! I guess it's fair to say that without potatoes (whether white or sweet), it's quite a challenge, considering that made up almost one quarter of your total intake.HappyCampr1 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I'd love to see a diary of someone who is getting in 4700 mg of potassium from food alone.
Not quite there, but since I thought I should be aiming for 3600 as listed in my goals I feel pretty good about this. Considering I'm eating at a pound a week loss at this intake, I think this is pretty darned close to your request. I'm sure if I had more calories I could have squeezed an additional couple hundred mg of potassium into my day. Or maybe I should have skipped my Tostitos and leftover Christmas cookie and eaten another banana. If I'd known there would be a test, I might have considered that.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I have to say, good job! I guess it's fair to say that without potatoes (whether white or sweet), it's quite a challenge, considering that made up almost one quarter of your total intake.HappyCampr1 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I'd love to see a diary of someone who is getting in 4700 mg of potassium from food alone.
Not quite there, but since I thought I should be aiming for 3600 as listed in my goals I feel pretty good about this. Considering I'm eating at a pound a week loss at this intake, I think this is pretty darned close to your request. I'm sure if I had more calories I could have squeezed an additional couple hundred mg of potassium into my day. Or maybe I should have skipped my Tostitos and leftover Christmas cookie and eaten another banana. If I'd known there would be a test, I might have considered that.
I think it is fair to say she did this using <2,000 calories which for me is barely my BMR. Gosh, this is a pretty cool diary thanks Happy Camper.. This month's Mens Health had a blurp about potatoes written by some well known lad. What was the guy's name? Give me a minute.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I have to say, good job! I guess it's fair to say that without potatoes (whether white or sweet), it's quite a challenge, considering that made up almost one quarter of your total intake.HappyCampr1 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I'd love to see a diary of someone who is getting in 4700 mg of potassium from food alone.
Not quite there, but since I thought I should be aiming for 3600 as listed in my goals I feel pretty good about this. Considering I'm eating at a pound a week loss at this intake, I think this is pretty darned close to your request. I'm sure if I had more calories I could have squeezed an additional couple hundred mg of potassium into my day. Or maybe I should have skipped my Tostitos and leftover Christmas cookie and eaten another banana. If I'd known there would be a test, I might have considered that.
Those are bad right? Potatoes I mean? Or only when they are potato chips. I get confused...0 -
Phew...just remembered the guy's name. Alan Aragon. I wonder if Alan realizes the dangers of potatoes?0
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_Terrapin_ wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I have to say, good job! I guess it's fair to say that without potatoes (whether white or sweet), it's quite a challenge, considering that made up almost one quarter of your total intake.HappyCampr1 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I'd love to see a diary of someone who is getting in 4700 mg of potassium from food alone.
Not quite there, but since I thought I should be aiming for 3600 as listed in my goals I feel pretty good about this. Considering I'm eating at a pound a week loss at this intake, I think this is pretty darned close to your request. I'm sure if I had more calories I could have squeezed an additional couple hundred mg of potassium into my day. Or maybe I should have skipped my Tostitos and leftover Christmas cookie and eaten another banana. If I'd known there would be a test, I might have considered that.
I think it is fair to say she did this using <2,000 calories which for me is barely my BMR. Gosh, this is a pretty cool diary thanks Happy Camper.. This month's Mens Health had a blurp about potatoes written by some well known lad. What was the guy's name? Give me a minute.
It's quite simple on 3500-3600 calories. Apparently those TDEEs are quite rare despite most of my friends list of, the guys anyway, are up in that range.
One more for the #proofisinthepudding pool.0
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