If calories are king, I got a question
Replies
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viren19890 wrote: »For as the average person, it might not matter at all. For a person with a specific long and slow endurance goal, it might. For weight loss, it's still just calories being burned.
Lol who is considered average ? just want to make sure.
Also two days I'll be doing strength training 5/3/1 (2 day routine) and 4 days HIIT which would be 30-40 mins (if i'll survive cuz it'll be my first time doing HIIT) and Sunday active rest.
Everyday evening I'll also be doing LISS -just for 100-200 calories.
I consider most of us, even those that workout in various ways several times a week, to fit in the average category. And I personally think we have a lot of various ways to eat to accomplish the same thing. This applies to macro balances, workout types, and general eating schedules among other things in my opinion.
I've eaten very low calories for most of the early day hours for much of my life, and then consume usually a good 75-80% of my calories at dinner time and later. I was doing it before people considered it any type of IF, including when I was younger and more active. And I honestly don't think it's ever really hurt my exercise performance to a level I would have noticed.
I still usually eat this way, but have experimented with eating more before exercise, and still don't really notice the difference except possibly some slight difference on days of longer term stuff, exercising hours at a time. That is not to say that you might notice a change in a different way than I do. A good way to test for yourself would be to lift fasted, and then on some days eat some of your carbs before lifting and see if there is a trend. I personally think that on the elite level, those people would notice. Most of us mere mortals, probably not. But it's an individual thing and varies person to person.
As for why it gets traction, I think any method of eating that might help some people will gain attention. In my case, it applies to me or doesn't, and I don't put much weight on what works for others unless it also works for me. In the case of IF, I think part of the reason it gained traction was the entire fat burning thing. There is some truth to the fat burning zones, IF having impact, etc, but really that "truth" has much more to do with what fuel is used for the workout, and very little to do with overall weight loss. The link I provided up above has some good examples of how fats vs carbs are used fasted vs fed. But for weight control, the overall balance of calories is what matters.
Think of fasted/nonfasted or using carbs vs using fats for fuel kind of like a hybrid car with two types of energy available. The body somewhat works that way, with certain fuels better for certain things. And in extreme cases, one fuel might be greatly superior. But in the end, the combined energy of both fuel types is really the indication that the fuel sources are going up or going down. That is what will change how full the hybrid car gas tanks or batteries are, as well as how much we eat and the mix affecting how full our overall body fat tanks are. And that comparison will confuse you even more if you aren't into how hybrid cars work!
@rabbitjb The misquote makes sense of it now. I just knew something like that must be going on. Well either that or you were so hangry you messed something up! Easy to misquote here, I did it in the response to you and then noticed and edited it.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »The theory was that since body does most of the work whilst asleep, you need to go to bed on a full stomach so it'll have all the food required for muscle building so it doesn't go catabolic.
The other thing I read, if you don't feed it right before bed then it'll feed on existing Carbs, fats and what not and that's helpful for fat loss especially when I'd workout first thing in morning after fasting for so long?
that theory is wrong..
meal timing does not matter. You can eat one meal a day or 24 meals every hour and it has zero impact on metabolism or fat loss...
what matter is the AMOUNT of calories...0 -
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You tell us. Why would you say "Guess I did it wrong" unless you felt like someone suggested there was only one right way and it wasn't your way?Wetcoaster wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »Wetcoaster wrote: »I lost over 120 pounds eating foods when ever. Guess I did it wrong.
Did anyone suggest anyone HAS TO eat in an IF window in order to lose weight? That's what your logic suggests.
No....I ate whatever. What is my logic again?
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viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.0 -
@kshama2001 I'd say so for marathon runners. That "wall" after two hours of running. Cured with a gummy bear or two.0
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if it comes naturally to eat in that pattern then by all means do it.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »
I'll be in the middle of the chart. Guess the best way to find something out is by trying it out. I'll try it out for a week and see.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.
What is a military diet? lol damn I gotta learn so much0 -
viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.
What is a military diet? lol damn I gotta learn so much
It's a worthless fad diet. Not worth learning about.0 -
robertw486 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »For as the average person, it might not matter at all. For a person with a specific long and slow endurance goal, it might. For weight loss, it's still just calories being burned.
Lol who is considered average ? just want to make sure.
Also two days I'll be doing strength training 5/3/1 (2 day routine) and 4 days HIIT which would be 30-40 mins (if i'll survive cuz it'll be my first time doing HIIT) and Sunday active rest.
Everyday evening I'll also be doing LISS -just for 100-200 calories.
I consider most of us, even those that workout in various ways several times a week, to fit in the average category. And I personally think we have a lot of various ways to eat to accomplish the same thing. This applies to macro balances, workout types, and general eating schedules among other things in my opinion.
I've eaten very low calories for most of the early day hours for much of my life, and then consume usually a good 75-80% of my calories at dinner time and later. I was doing it before people considered it any type of IF, including when I was younger and more active. And I honestly don't think it's ever really hurt my exercise performance to a level I would have noticed.
I still usually eat this way, but have experimented with eating more before exercise, and still don't really notice the difference except possibly some slight difference on days of longer term stuff, exercising hours at a time. That is not to say that you might notice a change in a different way than I do. A good way to test for yourself would be to lift fasted, and then on some days eat some of your carbs before lifting and see if there is a trend. I personally think that on the elite level, those people would notice. Most of us mere mortals, probably not. But it's an individual thing and varies person to person.
As for why it gets traction, I think any method of eating that might help some people will gain attention. In my case, it applies to me or doesn't, and I don't put much weight on what works for others unless it also works for me. In the case of IF, I think part of the reason it gained traction was the entire fat burning thing. There is some truth to the fat burning zones, IF having impact, etc, but really that "truth" has much more to do with what fuel is used for the workout, and very little to do with overall weight loss. The link I provided up above has some good examples of how fats vs carbs are used fasted vs fed. But for weight control, the overall balance of calories is what matters.
Think of fasted/nonfasted or using carbs vs using fats for fuel kind of like a hybrid car with two types of energy available. The body somewhat works that way, with certain fuels better for certain things. And in extreme cases, one fuel might be greatly superior. But in the end, the combined energy of both fuel types is really the indication that the fuel sources are going up or going down. That is what will change how full the hybrid car gas tanks or batteries are, as well as how much we eat and the mix affecting how full our overall body fat tanks are. And that comparison will confuse you even more if you aren't into how hybrid cars work!
@rabbitjb The misquote makes sense of it now. I just knew something like that must be going on. Well either that or you were so hangry you messed something up! Easy to misquote here, I did it in the response to you and then noticed and edited it.
Thank you for the post. Makes sense.0 -
It makes absolutely no difference when you eat your calories during the day as to how your weight loss is affected.0
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viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.
What is a military diet? lol damn I gotta learn so much
In all honesty, from reading this thread and a bunch of your other ones, I don't think the problem is that you have to "learn so much" - I think the problem is that you're driving yourself crazy jumping all over the place looking for a magic answer. You already know what to do - eat at a deficit and be consistent with a good workout program. It's that simple. If you're going to believe everything you read on the internet, you're going to be jumping from diet to diet and workout to workout and impeding your progress a lot worse than if you'd just settle on something and stick with it.
There's nothing wrong with reading and doing research - but at least do it from reliable sources rather than every clickbait article and crackpot theory out there. If I can offer a recommendation, go to bodyrecomposition.com, click on "Articles" at the top of the page and read to your heart's content. Lyle McDonald's stuff is solid and backed by science, he has a wealth of information on his site, all of which is completely free. If you see anything by Lyle, Alan Aragon and/or Eric Helms, they're all worth paying attention to. They're evidence-based guys who don't spew BS.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.
What is a military diet? lol damn I gotta learn so much
In all honesty, from reading this thread and a bunch of your other ones, I don't think the problem is that you have to "learn so much" - I think the problem is that you're driving yourself crazy jumping all over the place looking for a magic answer. You already know what to do - eat at a deficit and be consistent with a good workout program. It's that simple. If you're going to believe everything you read on the internet, you're going to be jumping from diet to diet and workout to workout and impeding your progress a lot worse than if you'd just settle on something and stick with it.
There's nothing wrong with reading and doing research - but at least do it from reliable sources rather than every clickbait article and crackpot theory out there. If I can offer a recommendation, go to bodyrecomposition.com, click on "Articles" at the top of the page and read to your heart's content. Lyle McDonald's stuff is solid and backed by science, he has a wealth of information on his site, all of which is completely free. If you see anything by Lyle, Alan Aragon and/or Eric Helms, they're all worth paying attention to. They're evidence-based guys who don't spew BS.
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viren19890 wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?...
You are kidding, right? How long has the "military diet" been out there? All weirdo diets get traction it seems. I'd say that food is very close to all of our hearts, and anyone who has fine-tuned their diet in any way is going to be a tad...evangelical about it.
What is a military diet? lol damn I gotta learn so much
In all honesty, from reading this thread and a bunch of your other ones, I don't think the problem is that you have to "learn so much" - I think the problem is that you're driving yourself crazy jumping all over the place looking for a magic answer. You already know what to do - eat at a deficit and be consistent with a good workout program. It's that simple. If you're going to believe everything you read on the internet, you're going to be jumping from diet to diet and workout to workout and impeding your progress a lot worse than if you'd just settle on something and stick with it.
There's nothing wrong with reading and doing research - but at least do it from reliable sources rather than every clickbait article and crackpot theory out there. If I can offer a recommendation, go to bodyrecomposition.com, click on "Articles" at the top of the page and read to your heart's content. Lyle McDonald's stuff is solid and backed by science, he has a wealth of information on his site, all of which is completely free. If you see anything by Lyle, Alan Aragon and/or Eric Helms, they're all worth paying attention to. They're evidence-based guys who don't spew BS.
listen to this guy OP ...0 -
viren19890 wrote: »How did this program catch so much traction if it doesn't work.
It can't be simple placebo?
Youtube is littered with videos and people talking about how they intermittent fasting is the shiznit!
How is there so much false information out there?
Lastly where has this forum been my whole life damn! if only I had learned about all this last year -I wouldn't be "cutting" .
IF is just a dietary approach...it can be used to cut, maintain, or bulk depending on the calories taken in.0 -
In fact, here's a fantastic article on Lyle's site which it seems speaks exactly to your situation right now, might be a great place for you to start: Fundamental Principles vs. Minor Details0
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In fact, here's a fantastic article on Lyle's site which it seems speaks exactly to your situation right now, might be a great place for you to start: Fundamental Principles vs. Minor Details
Great link, as was the first post you made here in this thread. But I have to admit, the fact that this link starts with the below quote shows that it happens to many more people than the OP....
"In that I am a bit obsessive compulsive about my field of interest, I have a driving desire to read anything and everything related to it. "
And though for most of us weight control/health/fitness might not be our chosen professional field, if we are here on a site like this we much be more interested that many. And I think sometimes we have to try things to figure out what works for us. It seems like a lot of people struggle with the weight control thing and IF is just another way it might help for some people. And though I completely agree with the thought of the link, if weight control was simple for everyone then web sites like this wouldn't be nearly as busy with the weight control questions. So I do think finding eating patterns that work for any person is a major thing or a fundamental principle.
I'm somewhat glad I dig deeper into things even when I have it all "in control". I've found out things and tried that I wasn't even looking for, often from sources that bias towards goals other than mine. If nothing else it gives us something new to try, and we might find out the way we were already doing it works better. But it does leave a possibility that we find something that is better than what we are doing. For me and you that might be like people who have never tried Mexican food and thus think they aren't missing anything. Maybe the grass isn't always greener on the other side, but if the other side has tacos... well yes, yes it is greener.0 -
Hi all - just checking in after a busy week at work! At the risk of beating a dead horse:
When I wrote what's quoted below, I was thinking specifically of long-duration endurance events, where there can be advantages to metabolizing lipids more efficiently at the beginning of an event. Alex Hutchinson has written on both low-carb, high-fat diets for athletes and the "train low [carb], race high" approach.
I certainly did not say that it would affect weight loss! OP, regardless of the proportion of fat to carbohydrate that you burn when exercising, as long as you are in a calorie deficit, the calories you burn that aren't in your food have to come from somewhere. Most will come from body fat; some will come from muscle protein, though you can minimize the amount that comes from muscle by doing weight training. (As you lose weight, you have less body mass to move around, so you don't need as much muscle for daily activities.)Fasted-state cardio will train your body to be better at burning fat for aerobic exercise. It will produce an improvement in athletic performance. It won't make a whit of difference to weight loss, though.0 -
I've been looking into the "train low, race high" approach, and have been wanting to try it on training cycles myself. Being that I usually do most of my workouts essentially fasted, I want to see what it adds to endurance for me. But I think a lot of people that just get used to eating on a regular schedule just assume they would be energy deprived if working out fasted simply because they haven't tried it often. I've found that there is more energy in the tanks than I would have expected, and even up to a couple hours I don't think workouts suffer from not eating before the fact.
When I have the chance I like to lift the intensity level at the end of my workouts, to gauge if I am anywhere near running out of steam. And really I've found it's just a matter of motivation. Up until a complete "bonk" event there is almost always more in reserve energy than would be expected, and if your head is in it the body will follow.0 -
I find that it helps me to keep my food eating window smaller. So I'll have a brunch, or even a late brunch, and then snack throughout the day, and then have dinner. Something like 12pm, 2pm, 4pm, and 8pm. But I also find that eating frequently throughout the day realllllly helps me.0
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robertw486 wrote: »I've been looking into the "train low, race high" approach, and have been wanting to try it on training cycles myself. Being that I usually do most of my workouts essentially fasted, I want to see what it adds to endurance for me. But I think a lot of people that just get used to eating on a regular schedule just assume they would be energy deprived if working out fasted simply because they haven't tried it often. I've found that there is more energy in the tanks than I would have expected, and even up to a couple hours I don't think workouts suffer from not eating before the fact.
I used to be like this because I read too many magazines and saw way to many youtube videos stating that -your workout will be horrible if you don't eat before a workout and I was in that state for so long.
Now all I do is -take my pre-workout- it's 56 calories and 2g Beta Alanine and work out. Zero effect on my workouts.
My HIIT workouts and my 5/3/1 workouts- both have been going on totally fine. I stop eating at 7.30 pm and workout 6 am (pre-workout) in the morning and then eat my breakfast at 10 am.robertw486 wrote: »When I have the chance I like to lift the intensity level at the end of my workouts, to gauge if I am anywhere near running out of steam. And really I've found it's just a matter of motivation. Up until a complete "bonk" event there is almost always more in reserve energy than would be expected, and if your head is in it the body will follow.
There is so much mis-information out there-it's like someone is intentionally spreading lies and then magazines and videos are fueling them.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »There is so much mis-information out there-it's like someone is intentionally spreading lies and then magazines and videos are fueling them.
Well, there is very little money to be made in telling people, "If you're just an ordinary person doing an hour or less of moderate exercise, it doesn't matter when you eat, and you don't need to buy any sports drinks, gels, recovery meals, etc., just stay hydrated and eat sensibly."0 -
I think fasted cardio is done to train your body to be better at burning fat as fuel, which is a useful adaptation to make if you are an endurance athlete who is training for long-distance events where you will run out of glycogen. The benefit is training adaptation, not body composition changes or weight loss.
Somebody did their homework assignment.
Gold star.
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viren19890 wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »I've been looking into the "train low, race high" approach, and have been wanting to try it on training cycles myself. Being that I usually do most of my workouts essentially fasted, I want to see what it adds to endurance for me. But I think a lot of people that just get used to eating on a regular schedule just assume they would be energy deprived if working out fasted simply because they haven't tried it often. I've found that there is more energy in the tanks than I would have expected, and even up to a couple hours I don't think workouts suffer from not eating before the fact.
I used to be like this because I read too many magazines and saw way to many youtube videos stating that -your workout will be horrible if you don't eat before a workout and I was in that state for so long.
Now all I do is -take my pre-workout- it's 56 calories and 2g Beta Alanine and work out. Zero effect on my workouts.
My HIIT workouts and my 5/3/1 workouts- both have been going on totally fine. I stop eating at 7.30 pm and workout 6 am (pre-workout) in the morning and then eat my breakfast at 10 am.robertw486 wrote: »When I have the chance I like to lift the intensity level at the end of my workouts, to gauge if I am anywhere near running out of steam. And really I've found it's just a matter of motivation. Up until a complete "bonk" event there is almost always more in reserve energy than would be expected, and if your head is in it the body will follow.
There is so much mis-information out there-it's like someone is intentionally spreading lies and then magazines and videos are fueling them.
1. Much of the "false" information is derived from programs for elites. However, almost no one is actually "elite".
2. There are financial interests at stake, both for producing content and selling programs/products.
3. Auto suggestion/placebo effect. There are people who actually believe these things. They are not promoting them for any personal/financial gain--it's just a state of groupthink/tradition.
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you can eat 12 meals a day or 1 meal a day, whatever works for you. I have read that folks that eat every 2-3 hours condition their bodies to be hungrier more often but I have no experience with that. I eat 2 meals a day and it works for me.0
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