The February 2016 Running Challenge
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Date Miles today. Miles for February
2/1 7.55 miles - 7.55
2/2 7.4 miles - 14.95
2/3 4.5 miles - 19.45
2/4 7 miles - 26.45
2/5 REST DAY
2/6 16 miles - 42.45
2/7 REST DAY
2/8 10.5 miles - 52.95
2/9 7.5 miles - 60.45
2/9 3.2 miles - 63.65
2/10 6.4 miles - 70.05
2/11 7.5 miles - 77.55
2/12 6.3 miles - 83.85
2/12 3.3 miles - 87.15 <<< Daily double
2/13 16 miles - 103.15
2/14 REST DAY Happy Valentines Day
2/15 8.1 miles - 111.25 << First run of 2 today
2/15 4 miles - 115.25 << Second run of the day. I hate cold rain.
2/16 10 miles - 125.25
2/17 5 miles - 130.25
2/18 11 miles - 141.25
2/19 6.2 miles - 147.45
2/20 16 miles - 163.45
2/21 REST DAY
2/22 8.5 miles - 171.95
2/22 4 miles - 175.95 << Another daily double
2/23 8 miles - 183.95
2/23 4 miles - 187.95 << Another daily double
Upcoming races:
UAH Spring Road Race 8K - 3/6
Oak Barrel HM - 4/2
Bridge Street HM - 4/10
Cotton Row Run 10K - 5/30
Firecracker Chase 10.2 miler - 6/250 -
As my race season starts getting closer, my life is once again starting to look and feel like this...
http://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/2015/11/what-its-really-like-to-train-for-an-ultra-marathon/0 -
MorningGhost14 wrote: »As my race season starts getting closer, my life is once again starting to look and feel like this...
http://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/2015/11/what-its-really-like-to-train-for-an-ultra-marathon/
I am trying to picture @MorningGhost14 with glittery pink Bath & Body Works spray and lotion.0 -
I can dazzle.0
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Goal of 70 Miles for February
2/3 – 3.58 Mi
2/4 – 3.63 Mi
2/6 – 4.24 Mi
2/7 – 6.12 Mi
2/9 – 4.41 Mi
2/11 – 5.40 Mi
2/13 – 4.69 Mi
2/14 – 7.15 Mi
2/23 – 5.64 Mi
Progress toward Goal 44.86 / 70
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@ch1psnqueso great run
@shanaber OMG I have watched that video like 100 times and still laughing
@morningghost14 feel better. I'm not sure which I like more the link to the blog or the shirt
@5beautifuldays saying a prayer for your son. Great job on the HM!
@karllundy thanks! I can't wait
@whatmerunning have you considered doing a run or two this year
Upcoming races:
4/9 - Rock the Parkway half marathon (Kansas City, MO)
4/16 - Garmin Wickedly Fast half marathon (Olathe, KS)
4/23 - Race for Hope half marathon (North Kansas City, MO)
5/1 - Buffalo Bell Stampede half marathon (Leavenworth, KS)
5/14 - Running with the Cows half marathon (Bucyrus, KS)
6/2 - Hospital Hill 5k 7pm PRE-RUN (Kansas City, MO)
6/3 - Hospital Hill half marathon 7am RE-RUN (Kansas City, MO)
10/15 - Kansas City half marathon Marathon 26.2 (Kansas City, MO)
11/5 - Jenks half marathon (Jenks, OK)
11/6 - Kansas half marathon (Lawrence, KS)
11/12 - Longview half marathon (Kansas City, MO)
11/13 - Gobbler Grind half marathon (Overland Park, KS)
11/19 - White River half marathon (Cotter, AR)
11/20 - Pilgrim Pacer half marathon (Lenexa, KS)
@ddmom0811 yeah Kody is a star!!!
Went to PT today, he says my hip is getting stronger and stronger, but my ankles make me worry...no don't look at anything else just my hip ha ha. I know I have tight ankles I feel it when I run, he's fixing them too now.0 -
@skippygirlsmom When you make it through all this PT and come out the other side, you're gonna be killin' it!0
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kristinegift wrote: »@skippygirlsmom When you make it through all this PT and come out the other side, you're gonna be killin' it!
I totally agree!!
@skippygirlsmom PT is the best thing I've ever done and I'm sure it is for you too!0 -
MorningGhost14 wrote: »As my race season starts getting closer, my life is once again starting to look and feel like this...
http://relentlessforwardcommotion.com/2015/11/what-its-really-like-to-train-for-an-ultra-marathon/
I loved #8.
So glad you are back and feeling better. Cracked up at this post and your new shirt!
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There are still some that have not yet opened for registration. I have obviously completely lost my mind!!skippygirlsmom wrote: »@whatmerunning have you considered doing a run or two this year
Upcoming races:
This list has been edited for time
Hope ALL of you gets stronger from PT so you will come back a total beast! Ankles and all!0 -
Date Miles MTD ------ ----- ----- Feb 02 4.4T 4.4 Feb 20 3.7 8.1 Feb 21 3.7 11.8 Feb 23 3.7T 15.5
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Thanks @ddmom0811, @kristinegift, @WhatMeRunning, and Orphia for your feedback. I really appreciate it.kristinegift wrote: »@Stoshew71 re: training plans blog post--
The only thing I disagree with is the 25-33% long run during marathon training. Very few people training for a first (or even second, and possibly third) can manage the kind of mileage in which a 20 mile long run would be just 33% of mileage. I'm only just hitting that kind of mileage and I'm on my 4th training cycle. I think that it is better to aim for 33% being those 15-16 milers, which is ~45 mile peak, which is more reasonable for the average marathoner who is training using an open access plan. Most are running too slow to afford the time in their week to run 60+ a week, so I think the 18 and 20 mile training runs are sort of the outliers for that rule and are an exemption. I'd also argue that the 3 hour mark can be stretched to 3:15 or 3:20, but definitely NOT past 3:30. If it is taking someone 3:30 to run 20, then 10 is taking 1:45, so they're used to more time on their feet anyhow. I know my 20 milers -- until last fall -- were always over 3 hours, usually in the 3:10-3:20 range, and I recovered just fine from those. However, my experience is not going to be the same as someone else's, and someone else may have a harder time recovering due to age, experience, etc.WhatMeRunning wrote: »My only complaint about the 25-33% rule for long runs is that this can not work for people who do 2 long runs per week (a lot of distance runners do this). In that case your total long run mileage will be well above that, but perhaps the individual long runs will fit that percentage. Even if the individual long runs fit the 25-33% rule, there is probably little chance of achieving an 80/20 time split of effort. It would probably be wise to do only one workout run in that sort of week, or just have those double long run weeks as part of base building. Recall I'm still newish and have learned by feel, and continuing to learn by feel for the most part. So I have no legs to stand on to suggest that, but I suspect I could be right and my training is moving towards this now so I guess I will "Guinea Pig" up and see if it has merit.
yes, the long run can be a very touchy subject. And I admit that on my first try at the marathon in 2014, my long run mileage started creeping up way too high of a percentage which forced me to concentrate real hard at building up the weekly mileage. There were some late middle weeks where I blown this rule. I know I blown the 2 and a half hour and even 3 hour rule that Daniels and others suggest as I got towards the end of my very first marathon training. I also ran my long run way too fast many times trying to fit it in and not take all morning or all day.
This year was much better. I only went beyond 3 hours twice (when I did my 22 milers). I can try and answer this, but will instead leave a Jack Daniels video that touches very much on this. I expect people to disagree with this like I did my first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO1hQ_kplgo
@Stoshew71 You've posted this video before, but I'll actually watch it this time (I expected it to be longer!).
But to be fair: no one will convince me to give up my 18 and 20-22 milers. I just really like running those distances, no matter how long it takes me (Though my last 18er was only 2:38 or something, so in another 1-2 training cycles, my 18s will be under 2:30 I hope!)
Overall, I at least sort of understand why Jack Daniels cuts off at 2.5 hours. But elites can run 26 miles in less than that -- often significantly for elite men. To cut off an average runner's training at 2.5 hours seems a bit premature when they may be running for 2 or 3 hours longer on race day. I still stand by the 3-3.5 hour rule; I don't think someone can run a marathon very well with only a 16 mile training run under their belt -- or even less mileage depending on speed. Can they finish? Sure. But will it be a good experience? I would be skeptical. Plus, for many average runners, 2.5 hours worth of running is not far enough to really address hydration and fuel issues and come up with a strategy, especially for those runners for whom a marathon WOULD take 4.5-6 hours. Example: A friend of mine did her first 15 miler last weekend, which clocked in just shy of 2:20. That's still a good pace (~9:10), but she barely had to tap into hydration and fuel (she only took 2 gels). And the thought of running 10 more is still very daunting. A half hour or 45 minutes more (up to 19-20 miles) would not only boost confidence but prepare her better and allow her to create a race strategy, and if played right, she could still recover well even if her mileage is peaking at 45 mpw.
The long run is tricky; it's very individual as to how far/long a person can run and still recover well vs. risk injury/overtraining. It's difficult to have a hard and fast rule to recommend. It all depends on goal, ability, experience, age, etc. These are all details which someone giving a lecture or writing a book can't really dish out.
I'm not sure we'll see eye to eye, but it's fun to debate. I should really do more reading about running science, but I get lost in all the jargon and mumbo-jumbo.0 -
@Stoshew71 @kristinegift while I'm some months to years from needing this training information, it's still interesting. Personally, I never thought I'd be able to "run" more than an hour. If I get gain the ability to run more than 3 hours, I plan on it. 0
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February goal 80 miles
2/1 3.8
2/2 4.17
2/3 bad life day
2/4 4.00
2/5 3.82
2/6 preparing a Superbowl Luau
2/7 hosting a Superbowl Luau
2/8 sick
2/9 4.02
2/10 10.00
2/11 rest
2/12 snorkel 3 hours
2/13 3.25
2/14 3.52
2/15 3.34
2/16 rest
2/17 6.48
2/18 3.12
2/19 3.54
2/20 rest
2/21 6.32
2/22 2.12
2/23 8.07
Total 69.57
Upcoming races:
3/20 Big Island International 1/2 marathon
6/26 SHEPower Virtual 1/2 marathon
11/13 Las Vegas Rock n Roll 1/2 marathon
Ticker is my goal for 2016 and accumulation to date:
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2/1 6.11
2/3 7.02 — good, slow run, snow, water, real slushy. not fun for the feet!
2/4 3.67 — easy short run at 10’20” per mile.
2/6 5.32
2/14 3.61
2/18 3 — first day training for HM
2/20 6.15
2/21 2.13 -- easy, short run
2/23 3.35
40.36/80
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You all are the best thanks for the kind words.
@whatmerunning lol maybe you can start running 2 a day0 -
@Stoshew71 @kristinegift - Just skimmed through 60 posts, have found the discussion of training plans (and Stan's blog on the subject) very interesting.
My take on the subject is, there's a huge illusion of accuracy. Much of what we think we know is a compilation of what worked out well for elites. We don't really know how to extend that to average runners. I think there's a lot more play in what will work than most training systems allow, and I think that what the runner's goals are is under-emphasized. In particular, I think training plans have too much speed work for people whose only goal is to finish. If speed isn't important, why introduce an additional injury risk from running hard in training?
Much of what Stan wrote about the problems with canned training plans resonates with me. I used a group training program to get to my first half. Over time, I have come to understand that this program is really aimed at beginners, people training to complete their first half or first marathon. I think any successful mass market training plan will need to have a similar bias. There are simply a lot more beginners than experienced distance runners who will buy plans or buy the ancillary products that accompany the plans. The plans out there are better than nothing for those beginners . . . and still have all the flaws Stan talks about.
I don't see eye to eye with Daniels on the long run. Right now, I'm working an aggressive marathon training plan. It nominally calls for 75 miles per week at peak, with a long run of 20-22 miles on peak weeks. Because I didn't achieve the recommended 50 mile per week base before starting the plan, my peak week is scaled down to 68 miles. 22 / 68 = 32.4% of the weekly distance in the long run at peak. Oops, it flunks the Jack Daniels requirements even though the plan uses Daniels' pacing system. The long run is both more than 25% of my weekly mileage and longer than 2.5 hours. I did run the first 22 miler in just under 3 hours; I might or might not run the next one in under 3 hours.
Let's think about this: 2.5 hours is 150 minutes. Divide by 20 miles, and we get an average pace of 7:30 to run 20 miles within Jack's 2.5 hour limit. The implication of limiting the long run to 2.5 hours is, only a runner with an easy pace of 7:30 or faster is going to hit 20 miles within the time limit. I get around pretty well for a 60 year old, but I'm not going to be doing any 20 mile runs in under 2.5 hours. Suppose I can hold an 8:00 pace for a long run. (I'm close, but not quite there. I averaged 8:05 for my last 22 mile run.) At 8:00, 2.5 hours gets me to 18.75 miles. That's probably long enough to prepare me for a marathon physiologically. But someone who runs at a 9:00 pace would only get up to 16.67 miles, someone who runs at a 10:00 pace would only get up to 15 miles, and someone who runs at a 12:00 pace wouldn't even get up to a half marathon distance.
The 20 mile long run is here to stay. The 2.5 hour limit is not realistic for the non-elite runner. While Jack makes some good points, I think his solution is unrealistically restrictive for most of us.
Maybe instead of saying, "An elite runner will only run 2.5 hours on a long run, so an average runner should only run 2.5 hours," we should say, "An elite runner will run X% of the time it takes him to complete a marathon on a long run, so an average runner should run X% of the time it will take to run the marathon." At that point, we could be right back to the 20 mile long run, assuming only that the average runner's ratio of long run pace to marathon pace is similar to the same ratio for an elite runner.
Can you really prepare to run for 5 hours if your longest session is only 2.5 hours? I don't know. My longest run before my first marathon was a bit over 3 hours, and I ran a 3:21 marathon. The question doesn't arise for me unless I want to train for an ultra. (Not this year, thank you.)
And I recall a conversation with a *very* experienced marathon runner who claimed that the 4 hour training run was a wonderful thing. If I can run a marathon in 3.5 hours without running hard, I don't see the point in a 4 hour training run until I get into ultra distances; but opinions like this are out there.0 -
February Running Totals (miles)
[1/31 – 14.01 easy with hills]
2/1 – 6.08 easy + 4 strides
2/2 – 9.73 warm up, speed work, cool down
2/3 – 6.30 group run
2/4 – 11.04 long speed work
2/5 – scheduled rest day
2/6 – 15.00 long speed work
Weekly total 62.16 vs. target 62
2/7 – 11.35 easy 1.5 hour
2/8 – 5.96 easy + 4 strides
2/9 – 11.08 warm up, speed work, cool down
2/10 – 6.01 easy
2/11 – 11.75 warm up, speed work, cool down
2/12 – scheduled rest day
2/13 – 22 on inside track
Weekly total 68.15 vs. target 68
2/14 – 12.64 easy 100 minutes
2/15 – 6.06 easy
2/16 – unplanned rest day – Winter Storm Olympia
2/17 – 9.53 long speed work
2/18 – 14 long speed work
2/19 – 4.03 easy instead of planned rest day
2/20 – 10.18 easy + 6 light workout
Weekly total 62.43 vs. target 62
2/21 – 9.83 warmup, 2 x 5K at MP, cooldown
2/22 – 6.10 easy + 4 strides
2/23 – 10.20 warm up, speed work, cool down
February total to date – 204.86
Goal – 62 or 68 miles per week, per training plan
Expected February total - 262 to 265 miles
Today's notes – Today's assignment was 2 x 3 miles at T pace with 3 minutes recovery, plus 4 x 200m at R pace with 200m recovery. 2 mile warm up and 1 mile cool down brought me to the cited mileage. I ran the first T interval too fast, and suffered for it later; but I managed to run the second T interval accurately, and still had an accurate R pace left after the second 3 minute recovery period.
And I got a gentle lesson in humility later on. As I was running my last 200 at R, Omar cruised past me like I was standing still. I asked him later what pace he was running. 66 seconds for 400 meters. That's his I pace, and it's 20 seconds per 400 m faster than my R pace. Just the reminder I need when I start thinking I'm pretty good.
No matter what speed you run, there is always someone faster; there is always someone slower; and as long as you keep moving, you're lapping the couch potatoes.
Upcoming races:
March 12, 2016 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY)
March 26, 2016 Spring Forward Distance Run 15K (Mendon, NY)
April 18, 2016 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA)
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@kristinegift @Stoshew71 @MobyCarp - I was super slow training for my fulls, averaging 15 minute miles on the big runs. I did a few 16 milers and two 20 mile training runs, requiring 4 to 5 hours. There was a point around 3:45 into these runs that I felt a new level of tired, reaching the wall. The 16 milers were not difficult to finish this way becauae I just had to push one more mile. Those 20 mile 5 hour runs were different beasts altogether and took a toll. It was when I ran these that I fell back from my 52 mile/week high as I required more rest (unplanned of course). That extra 15 minutes on the 16 milers did not take that toll. I honestly think I could have maintained weekly 16 milers (4 hour runs). I believe this due to seeing that I repeated these, particularly repeating weeks with 16 miles (4hrs) saturday, 12 miles (3hrs) sunday, and 12 miles (3hrs) on wednesday, with 6 to 8 mile easy runs or rest days in between. It was after trying to do 20 milers (5hrs) two weeks in a row that I petered out.
As for my personal view on how beneficial those 20 milers were is mixed. Mentally it actually made the upcoming full rather daunting knowing I needed to push another full 10k on top of that so my confidence had zero boost (maybe negative). Physically it overtrained me and cost me training time. At the same time though, when running the fulls and hitting that wall I was not only familiar with running through it, but I was able to use all of that suffering on those runs to push me through so that all of that ridiculous effort was not wasted. So it hurt and helped.
Long runs of 3 to 3.5 hours were really inconsequential. I could recover enough to do 2 or 3 of those length runs per week so long as I refueled both on the runs and followed my recovery routine.
I know this does not refute any science about injury risk, and it does not even support 3 to 4 hour long runs. But I really had no fears last year of 3 to 4 hour runs and did a great many of them with no problems (2 to 3 times per week even as a new marathoner).
Whatever it's worth. Probably only the sunny side of a hill of beans. But that was my experience. I had even planned on 3 to 4 hour long runs this summer too without too much concern. Well, until now perhaps. But I would probably still do them.
Oh, and nobody here should do what I do. Repeat that until it sticks. I only want to be responsible for whatever stupidity I bring upon myself.
I do plan to base build following Stans suggestions, up until I need to do 16 milers which will take me about 3 hours (and I'll do those). Even better, once I get there I will be peaking around 60 mpw and after getting accustomed to that will add in 80/20 easy/workout efforts. I'm excited as crazy with this plan!0
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