The February 2016 Running Challenge
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I'll pencil that in for a 2017 goal!skippygirlsmom wrote: »@whatmerunning lol maybe you can start running 2 a day
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I would never cut my long runs off at 2.5 hours.... doing my 50k trail race in May will have me on my feet for about 7 hours.... my October race has a 40 hour cut-off... so not doing anything over 2.5 hours isn't particularly helpful to me. I need those long "time on feet" runs of 5-7 hours to be prepared.
I'm sure the 2.5 hour limit might make sense for road marathoners who want to keep running faster times, but I can't see how that translates over to trail ultras.0 -
@5BeautifulDays - Congrats on your HM. My thoughts are with you and your son. Hope he is doing well and is out of the hospital soon!
@MorningGhost14 - Glad you are back to the world of the living an running once again! Love the shirt!
All this talk about training has made me think about what I am going to be doing in the next month. Well that and how tired I have been the last few days (HM run, Agility trial, recovery runs yesterday and today). I think my body is exhausted and work is crazy and trying to stress me out. Running helps, so does strength training but I am wondering how I can cope next month with reduced running (none for at least 2 weeks post surgery) and no strength training that involves my hands for months until I get the cast off and released by the PT... So while I think I need to rest, my mind is telling me to go run and train as much as you can while you can??? I am thinking to start now to go back to basics... slow base building and with an interval session 1-2 times a week if I feel up to it. I have 3 weeks until surgery and then I can pick it up afterwards once I am released.
Date..........Miles.........Total
02/01.......4.15..........4.15 - Treadmill run at the hotel
02/02.......0.00..........4.15
02/03.......3.55..........7.70 - Treadmill run at the hotel
02/04.......0.00..........7.70
02/05.......4.12........11.82 - Yay for running outdoors!
02/06.......0.00........11.82
02/07.....13.20........25.02 - Surf City HM
02/08.......4.50........29.52 - + Agility
02/09.......6.10........35.62 - +Strength Training
02/10.......0.00........35.62
02/11.......4.32........39.94 - +Strength Training
02/12.......0.00........39.94
02/13.......7.22........47.16
02/14.......2.00........49.16 - Dog Beach Valentine run
02/15.......0.00........49.16 - + Agility
02/16.......5.18........54.34 - +Strength Training
02/17.......0.00........54.34
02/18.......5.34........59.68 - +Strength Training
02/19.......0.00........59.68
02/20.....13.34........73.02 - Divas HM
02/21.......0.00........73.02
02/22.......4.54........77.56 - + Agility
02/23.......5.08........82.64 - +Strength Training
02/24.......0.00........82.64
These are my upcoming races, let me know if you are going to be running too:
*****No Races Scheduled (for now)*****0 -
Feb 1 - 4.1 km
Feb 6 - 5.2 km
Feb 8 - 5.3 km
Feb 10 - 4.1 km
Feb 11 – Hurt my back
Feb 15 – 6 km
Feb 17 – 4.1 km
Feb 20 – 5 km - PB at parkrun!
Feb 22 – 4.3 km
Feb 24 – 4.2 km
Total 42.3 km
Goal 45 km
Upcoming Events:
Willaura Farm to Pub 8.6 km – Saturday Feb 27
No more runs till Saturday's event.0 -
Good morning, all! One of my weekly goals was to up my warm-up TM speed to 6.0, which I'm happy to say I was able to do today. Short run though - but a nice confidence boost. Strength training today. Add 2 ... so 14.5/25.
Is anyone doing a Virginia race this spring/summer? Trying to choose a few ...
Have a wonderful day!0 -
@Stoshew71 @kristinegift while I'm some months to years from needing this training information, it's still interesting. Personally, I never thought I'd be able to "run" more than an hour. If I get gain the ability to run more than 3 hours, I plan on it.
I'm with you Elise! It feels like I'm a long way away from worrying about if I should run more than 2.5 hours. Just happy to have my HMs under that!0 -
1-personal training episode. so sore
2-nothing, not feeling well
3-slept in. still not feeling great
4-see above, and then transmission cracked
5-car hunting
6-car hunting
7-4.75 miles. I added hills to my treadmill work out. oh the suck
8-nothing
9-i was on the way to the gym. because it was icy i didn't want to run outside. so icy, i hit a parked jeep with my 2 day all new to me car.
no gym for me
10-yoga tonight. a little sore from the accident, but i'm really concerned about the race this weekend. I've not been able to train like I'd like to due to flares and accidents. I'm not sure how I'll do
11-no run. fell asleep by 7pm
12-slept like a rock thru my alarms
13-8k race day. freezing 1F. but i did get a PB and after not finding any particularly friendly people, i did find a few to chat and run with.
15-went to the gym and did a 10k virtual run. it was hard physically but I was proud I did it
16-rest
17-yoga tonight
18-wayward ice chunk took out rental's bumper, went back to insurance and got another car and filed a claim. sigh, no time for run today.
19-planned rest day.
20-7.04mi felt good. i missed the distance. the first few miles are always a struggle. it was my fastest 6-8 miles
21-video game day (borderlands pre-sequel)
22-nothing
23-lazy did not run. cannot get motivated
24-yoga tonight
totally not making my goal but I think i needed a rest. i was literally falling asleep at my desk this week
RACES:
Jan 16-Frosty 5k-33:43:123 (gun time-don't have chip time)
Feb 13-Steve Cullen Run 8k chip time: 53:37
Feb 15 Puppy Love Virtual Run 10k runkeeper time: 1:13:20
?Mar 14-Great Pi Run?
?Jun 11-Rock n Sole 5 or 8k? honeymoon might interfere
June 19th through Sunday, July 10th SHE Power Virtual Half
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2/1 6.11
2/3 7.02 — good, slow run, snow, water, real slushy. not fun for the feet!
2/4 3.67 — easy short run at 10’20” per mile.
2/6 5.32
2/14 3.61
2/18 3 — first day training for HM
2/20 6.15
2/21 2.13 -- easy, short run
2/23 3.35
2/24 3.48
43.84/80
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@Stoshew71 @kristinegift while I'm some months to years from needing this training information, it's still interesting. Personally, I never thought I'd be able to "run" more than an hour. If I gain the ability to run more than 3 hours, I plan on it.
I'm with you Elise! It feels like I'm a long way away from worrying about if I should run more than 2.5 hours. Just happy to have my HMs under that!
Until then, pie for everyone! (Or cheesecake) and tequila.. I need a vacation.. Or a life?0 -
WhatMeRunning wrote: »@kristinegift @Stoshew71 @MobyCarp - I was super slow training for my fulls, averaging 15 minute miles on the big runs. I did a few 16 milers and two 20 mile training runs, requiring 4 to 5 hours. There was a point around 3:45 into these runs that I felt a new level of tired, reaching the wall. The 16 milers were not difficult to finish this way becauae I just had to push one more mile. Those 20 mile 5 hour runs were different beasts altogether and took a toll. It was when I ran these that I fell back from my 52 mile/week high as I required more rest (unplanned of course). That extra 15 minutes on the 16 milers did not take that toll. I honestly think I could have maintained weekly 16 milers (4 hour runs). I believe this due to seeing that I repeated these, particularly repeating weeks with 16 miles (4hrs) saturday, 12 miles (3hrs) sunday, and 12 miles (3hrs) on wednesday, with 6 to 8 mile easy runs or rest days in between. It was after trying to do 20 milers (5hrs) two weeks in a row that I petered out.
As for my personal view on how beneficial those 20 milers were is mixed. Mentally it actually made the upcoming full rather daunting knowing I needed to push another full 10k on top of that so my confidence had zero boost (maybe negative). Physically it overtrained me and cost me training time. At the same time though, when running the fulls and hitting that wall I was not only familiar with running through it, but I was able to use all of that suffering on those runs to push me through so that all of that ridiculous effort was not wasted. So it hurt and helped.
Long runs of 3 to 3.5 hours were really inconsequential. I could recover enough to do 2 or 3 of those length runs per week so long as I refueled both on the runs and followed my recovery routine.
I know this does not refute any science about injury risk, and it does not even support 3 to 4 hour long runs. But I really had no fears last year of 3 to 4 hour runs and did a great many of them with no problems (2 to 3 times per week even as a new marathoner).
Whatever it's worth. Probably only the sunny side of a hill of beans. But that was my experience. I had even planned on 3 to 4 hour long runs this summer too without too much concern. Well, until now perhaps. But I would probably still do them.
Oh, and nobody here should do what I do. Repeat that until it sticks. I only want to be responsible for whatever stupidity I bring upon myself.
I do plan to base build following Stans suggestions, up until I need to do 16 milers which will take me about 3 hours (and I'll do those). Even better, once I get there I will be peaking around 60 mpw and after getting accustomed to that will add in 80/20 easy/workout efforts. I'm excited as crazy with this plan!
Haha, yes I think it is good advice not to do as you've done! You are a unique specimen. I have no clue how you ran 3 marathons in a month and are still running! You were putting in huge miles, and putting in way more hours than most of us here. It was impressive and also insane But your training also had you running high volume all the time; your lowest mileage day was 6 miles! That probably prepared your more physically and mentally than any 20 mile/5 hour run might have.
I think where most people would have a problem is doing those 4-5 hour training runs to "get the miles in" without the base during the week; if the midweek runs are just 3 to 4 miles and then someone tries to do 16-20 on the weekend, that's where you really set yourself up for a big fall. I experienced this in my first training cycle; my midweek runs were 3-4 miles, with ony 6-7 miler, then I was doing 15, 16, 18 miles on a Sunday... no wonder I spent half my training weeks toward the end babying injuries!
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@Stoshew71 - Apologies for cluttering up the thread with another "long run thoughts" post.
I wanted to process the Jack Daniels video you posted for a while. He has an excellent point about how people have no doubts that a person who has run 2 miles in training can run a 10k race, or how 100 mile ultra runners have a longest training run of 30 miles. This was what I was trying to process.
I agree on that point but it is also one-dimensional in that the comparison is solely on the ratio of training run length to race run length and whether people who have run that race distance before believe a new runner could make it with only that smaller distance as their longest run. The mental aspect is the biggest no matter the distance.
However, and @kristinegift touched on this, there is more at play than just being able to mentally push yourself forward. I have no proof to back this up but I find it very hard to believe that a fixed time of 2.5 hours provides the best physiological benefit to running in a glycogen depleted state at "easy pace".
The approach I see with these types of plans is to run the race at "race pace" which for even marathons is a rather surprisingly high heart rate for such a distance. It is possible, but takes a different toll on the body and recovery periods betwewn a "race pace" run and "easy pace" run are worlds apart.
So the physiological gains these drive at assume you can run at that effort and train your body to consume enough fats to get you to the finish line before you bonk, and at that effort when your glycogen depletes you truly bonk and there is no more running that day.
For an "endurance runner", which is a term I am using to describe someone running a long, long time, say 4.5+ hours (maybe 5+ but hopefully you get the idea). This kind of runner is only going to reach the finish if they run more towards their easy pace. In this case it is not necessarily how long you can delay glycogen depletion (because it is guaranteed with that sort of running time), but how you can run in a depleted (or keto) state.
I have nothing to support this, but I would be very surprised if physiological adaptations did not occur to develop the bodies ability to run in that keto state, which is not a state you will run in if you cap your running time at 2.5 hours.
Why would an ultra runner run 30 miles if it gave no benefit over a 20 miler?0 -
@WhatMeRunning and @Stoshew71 Yeah we probably could have made a thread in the group forum... but we're too far gone to do it now!0
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@kristinegift - I think I might not be as unique of a specimen as I might like to think. As you mentioned all of my runs were fair distances, 100% of the at easy effort pace. My 3 marathons were run the same way I trained, at easy effort pace. I could not keep doing this beyond 3 fulls though because my base was nowhere near that sort of thing. But I was able to do the 3 with no big issues (not at all implying they were not super difficult).0
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2/1 - Rest day. Semi-planned.
2/2 - Snow Day
2/3 - 4 miles on treadmill
2/4 - 5.1 miles on treadmill (Trek class). Sore knee this morning...hoping it is from shoveling and not running related. Didn't get worse when I ran, so I am going to cautiously push through.
2/5 - 4 miles on treadmill
2/6 - Life day...too busy to squeeze in a run :-(
2/7 - 5.4 windy miles, but warm for Feb.
2/8 - Another life day. Wife's mother in hospital not well, so she is out of town...gotta get kids to school, etc.
2/9 - 4 miles on treadmill. Convinced all three kids to go to the Y with me after dinner.
2/10 - 2/14 - Nothing.
2/15 - Again, 0.
2/16 - 4 miles on treadmill, hotter than blazes in the gym!
2/17 - Another life day.
2/18 - 4.1 wet, squishy, windy, springy miles...it was fun!
2/19 - 4 miles on a teeny, tiny indoor track (76 laps)
2/20 - Spin class with my Y friends...raising funds
2/21 - 4.3 miles, nice and comfortable
2/22 - 5.2 easy miles. Felt like I could have run all night, but family / duty called and I had to head home.
2/23 - 3.5 miles on treadmill + weights/abs
2/24 - Planned rest day. Been so long since I actually needed that...I may have forgotten how!
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MorningGhost14 wrote: »My most recent purchase....
From what I can tell, this sums your attitude perfectly!
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Good morning running friends, Another good run this morning. It feels so good to be getting back to running.
Races: March 5th 5k0 -
@Stoshew71 @kristinegift while I'm some months to years from needing this training information, it's still interesting. Personally, I never thought I'd be able to "run" more than an hour. If I get gain the ability to run more than 3 hours, I plan on it.
I'm with you Elise! It feels like I'm a long way away from worrying about if I should run more than 2.5 hours. Just happy to have my HMs under that!
Amen! Ditto!0 -
Glad to see this thread. Been plodding around with walk/run intervals the last month or so and just signed up for a group running program with our local Fleet Feet that starts in March to train for a 5k. Will likely lurk until then. Baby steps is the name of the game for me. Used to be in much better shape and I still expect my body to function how it did back then. Nope!0
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Glad to see this thread. Been plodding around with walk/run intervals the last month or so and just signed up for a group running program with our local Fleet Feet that starts in March to train for a 5k. Will likely lurk until then. Baby steps is the name of the game for me. Used to be in much better shape and I still expect my body to function how it did back then. Nope!
Welcome! Jump on in if you want to start you training early!0 -
@Stoshew71 @kristinegift while I'm some months to years from needing this training information, it's still interesting. Personally, I never thought I'd be able to "run" more than an hour. If I get gain the ability to run more than 3 hours, I plan on it.
@Elise4270 18 months ago I couldn't run 10 minutes, now I can run 2+ hours at easy pace and am slowly adding distance/time to my long runs. I also do random ( body tells me when ) cutback weeks. I have completed 2 HM's in February and both were right around 2:12:00.
A big thank you to @Stoshew71, @kristinegift , @7lenny7 , @MorningGhost14 and many others for all the little training tips and video links. Quite often its the passing comment in a conversation that has been the most helpful for me. A perfect example of that iskristinegift wrote: »Haha, yes I think it is good advice not to do as you've done! // That probably prepared your more physically and mentally than any 20 mile/5 hour run might have.
I think where most people would have a problem is doing those 4-5 hour training runs to "get the miles in" without the base during the week; if the midweek runs are just 3 to 4 miles and then someone tries to do 16-20 on the weekend, that's where you really set yourself up for a big fall. I experienced this in my first training cycle; my midweek runs were 3-4 miles, with ony 6-7 miler, then I was doing 15, 16, 18 miles on a Sunday... no wonder I spent half my training weeks toward the end babying injuries!0
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