Are you a hard gainer, please read!
Replies
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
And there are no other items on the menu at McDonalds other than a Big Mac, fries and a soda?2 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
And there are no other items on the menu at McDonalds other than a Big Mac, fries and a soda?
I am not in this, and not arguing this, but if someone is bringing up eating at mcdonalds everyday, they are implying eating low nutrient dense food on a daily basis, not a grilled chicken salad from mcdonalds0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and does not apply common sense. In other words, to use an outlier extreme case of a hardgainer who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much weight as a justification for the argument that 2000 calories in junk food EVERY DAY is okay ! ( Occasionally, someone wants cake or McDonalds and that's cool too)
There are enough people struggling with obesity that it could be a misleading example.0 -
Big Mac: 550 calories, 46g carbs, 29g fat, 25g of protein. Large Fries: 500 calories, 63g carbs, 25g fat, 6g protein. A small soda at McD's is about 120 calories... This is 1170 calories and leaves 1830 calories for the other two meals... just look at this thread and at the kind of people posting here. To them, just getting over maintenance is sometimes a victory. I'd hardly call that meal "empty" as it can certainly provide you with all three needed macros.
Oh, and *I* would lose weight at 3000. I maintain at 4K... and I'm not some strange outlier in this category.
donkey9512 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and not apply common sense. In other words, that an outlier extreme case of some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm! There are enough people struggling with obesity that it is misleading to suggest eating McDonalds everyday is a valid strategy.
Dude, did you check out which forum you were in?7 -
donkey9512 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person assumes that outlier extreme case where there are some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm!
To quote Eric Helms, "Once our nutritional needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food."
So if one is not being an idiot about nutrition and they're making some reasonable effort to hit acceptable macros for the day, but are still short on calories after that, calorie-dense foods can be helpful in reaching their calorie goals. I don't buy the contention that if somebody is eating a reasonable diet but is 600 calories short of their bulking goal every day, that eating a Big Mac is magically going to make them blow up into a big, fat heart attack waiting to happen.3 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Big Mac: 550 calories, 46g carbs, 29g fat, 25g of protein. Large Fries: 500 calories, 63g carbs, 25g fat, 6g protein. A small soda at McD's is about 120 calories... This is 1170 calories and leaves 1830 calories for the other two meals... just look at this thread and at the kind of people posting here. To them, just getting over maintenance is sometimes a victory. I'd hardly call that meal "empty" as it can certainly provide you with all three needed macros.
Oh, and *I* would lose weight at 3000. I maintain at 4K... and I'm not some strange outlier in this category.donkey9512 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and not apply common sense. In other words, that an outlier extreme case of some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm! There are enough people struggling with obesity that it is misleading to suggest eating McDonalds everyday is a valid strategy.
Dude, did you check out which forum you were in?
Empty calories is used to describe foods that are low in nutrient density. Lacking in the micro nutrients, not the macro nutrients.4 -
donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.2 -
donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
3 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.7 -
donkey9512 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and does not apply common sense. In other words, to use an outlier extreme case of a hardgainer who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much weight as a justification for the argument that 2000 calories in junk food EVERY DAY is okay ! ( Occasionally, someone wants cake or McDonalds and that's cool too)
There are enough people struggling with obesity that it could be a misleading example.
I'd recommend you take a step back and read the whole thread, as this exact argument has been made. Can someone take a restaurant.. and meat nutritional goals.. more than likely. Can you do it with just a big mac, fries and a soda.. probably not, but that is being obtuse since no one eats like that and no one is advocating it.
But right now, that issue isn't the intent of the thread, it's one or two peoples extreme interpretation of how the information potentially could be used. And it's no different than the who aren't that eating this food or that food (i.e., doughnuts vs broccoli) is better for you while you lose weight; as if you can't have been and still meet nutritional needs.4 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).4 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Big Mac: 550 calories, 46g carbs, 29g fat, 25g of protein. Large Fries: 500 calories, 63g carbs, 25g fat, 6g protein. A small soda at McD's is about 120 calories... This is 1170 calories and leaves 1830 calories for the other two meals... just look at this thread and at the kind of people posting here. To them, just getting over maintenance is sometimes a victory. I'd hardly call that meal "empty" as it can certainly provide you with all three needed macros.
Oh, and *I* would lose weight at 3000. I maintain at 4K... and I'm not some strange outlier in this category.donkey9512 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.
With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.
btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.
The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.
As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and not apply common sense. In other words, that an outlier extreme case of some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm! There are enough people struggling with obesity that it is misleading to suggest eating McDonalds everyday is a valid strategy.
Dude, did you check out which forum you were in?
I was just guessing on the calories of a MCDonalds meal. You get my point and I get yours.0 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I dont think you get it fully. Some people struggle to eat calories... even to the point of gaining just fat. That is why this thread exist4 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I dont think you get it fully. Some people struggle to eat calories... even to the point of gaining just fat. That is why this thread exist
Because they are not eating enough calories or expenditure exceeds intake. I get it. Trust me.1 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I dont think you get it fully. Some people struggle to eat calories... even to the point of gaining just fat. That is why this thread exist
And, as alluded to in the OP, one of the major reasons some people struggle to eat calories is that they're so orthorexic/fixated on "clean eating" that they won't consume anything but vegetables hand-harvested by virgin Elven maidens by the light of a harvest moon and washed in unicorn tears (hyperbole, of course, but it goes to the point).
You get fat in a surplus because 1) your calorie intake outpaces your capacity for muscle gain, and 2) because even under optimal diet/training conditions you're looking at about a 50/50 muscle/fat gain in the first place (and more like 25/75 for a female). If you're eating at a 1,000 calorie per day surplus in hopes of putting on 2 pounds of muscle a week, you're going to get fat whether you're eating avocados and organic trail mix or Big Macs and Snickers bars.3 -
It was Wendy's not McDonald's but I ate it every day for 3 years and couldn't get over 150 at 5'11". So it's certainly possible
And it was usually over 2000 calories all told. Including at least a couple liters of full sugar my dew.1 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm 6'1 and 230 ... but no Big Mac today. It was Carl's Jr. and a Super Star with cheese, medium fries and and a Dr. Pepper. You should look at my diary - it's open... but it will probably burn your eyes and damage your soul. lol4 -
jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm 6'1 and 230 ... but no Big Mac today. It was Carl's Jr. and a Super Star with cheese, medium fries and and a Dr. Pepper. You should look at my diary - it's open... but it will probably burn your eyes and damage your soul. lol
Well you have good genes and consider yourself lucky. Wait till you reach my age and you shall see!2 -
donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm 6'1 and 230 ... but no Big Mac today. It was Carl's Jr. and a Super Star with cheese, medium fries and and a Dr. Pepper. You should look at my diary - it's open... but it will probably burn your eyes and damage your soul. lol
Well you have good genes and consider yourself lucky. Wait till you reach my age and you shall see!
I'm 47.... not exactly a spring chicken. 3 -
jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm 6'1 and 230 ... but no Big Mac today. It was Carl's Jr. and a Super Star with cheese, medium fries and and a Dr. Pepper. You should look at my diary - it's open... but it will probably burn your eyes and damage your soul. lol
Well you have good genes and consider yourself lucky. Wait till you reach my age and you shall see!
I'm 47.... not exactly a spring chicken.
Omg, we are the same age, more or less. I am 48. But I am only 5'6 and 142lbs. Are you trying to gain weight?0 -
donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm 6'1 and 230 ... but no Big Mac today. It was Carl's Jr. and a Super Star with cheese, medium fries and and a Dr. Pepper. You should look at my diary - it's open... but it will probably burn your eyes and damage your soul. lol
Well you have good genes and consider yourself lucky. Wait till you reach my age and you shall see!
I'm 47.... not exactly a spring chicken.
Omg, we are the same age, more or less. I am 48. But I am only 5'6 and 142lbs. Are you trying to gain weight?
Yes, I've been on a bulk for about 6 months and I've got a few more to go. I use this app to keep on track for gain. If I just ate like I'm inclined to I'd start dropping weight. Even cutting I'll have to track things so I don't lose too fast... I went on vacation, didn't log for a week and ate 3 meals a day out and lost several pounds. My wife thinks it's terribly unfair. lol
I think there are more than a few of us that use this app for gains and not weight loss.
Anyhow, welcome to MFP! I'm going to stop cluttering this thread before I get in trouble. lol
1 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
You were a hard gainer for muscle because you ate too much food. There is only so much muscle your body can make.
If you ate that much extra in trail mix, avocado, nuts, salad etc. you would have still gained fat.
And to add, if you struggle to gain muscle, there is a big question around training (or lack their of). But if calories and protein are equated for, there is NO different in fat gains if it's clean or dirty. We can all gain fat quickly. We all have limited potential to gain muscle (even if you were on drugs).
We can all gain fat quickly. That's the part that sucks the most! I just mean error on the side of reasonable surplus. So yes, if someone is 6 foot 6 and maintains at 4,000 calories, then enjoy that daily big mac. Whatever floats your boat.
I dont think you get it fully. Some people struggle to eat calories... even to the point of gaining just fat. That is why this thread exist
Because they are not eating enough calories or expenditure exceeds intake. I get it. Trust me.
If you fully understand that diet is about context, than you would have a fully understanding that calories, not the specific foods, are what cause excessive fat gains. One could have a diet made up of fast food and have a 250 to 500 calorie per day surplus vs a person with only clean foods at 1000 calorie day surplus... and guess who would gain more fat? It's the latter. Maybe spend a few months around here and see the countless amounts of threads of people who have struggled for years with gaining weight as ask yourself, is it better to have perfect nutrition or use a little junk food (think 80/20) to help them consistently gain weight? Because for years, I have been helping people get there. I have done this day in an out. And this thread is the culmination of what I have learned and strategies I get people to implement to ensure they reach their goals, instead of spinning their wheels for more years following dumb rules.
And don't get me wrong, a person should have a varied and nutritionally dense diet, but after a little fine tuning, most of us can do that on a cut. So adding some additional junk food during a bulk, can go a long way. Now if you want to discuss bulk/cut/maintenance strategies, by all means we can do it. I know for one, when I cut, junk is the first thing going out the door or I limit to 10% of calories, and not every day. And with the exception of a honey bun, I have used every one of those items on that list during a cut. In fact, I went from 220 and 175 @ 16% by doing so. But I also incorporate 30g+ of fiber (mainly fruit and sometimes a quest bar), 150g to 180g of protein and lots of healthy fats.
And for fun, I will throw in another one of my threads.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503952/bro-do-you-even-eat-clean/p13 -
donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »donkey9512 wrote: »Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.
You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.
Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.
Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.
NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
Not according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer
I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.
I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.
The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
If you fully understand that diet is about context, than you would have a fully understanding that calories, not the specific foods, are what cause excessive fat gains. One could have a diet made up of fast food and have a 250 to 500 calorie per day surplus vs a person with only clean foods at 1000 calorie day surplus... and guess who would gain more fat? It's the latter. Maybe spend a few months around here and see the countless amounts of threads of people who have struggled for years with gaining weight as ask yourself, is it better to have perfect nutrition or use a little junk food (think 80/20) to help them consistently gain weight? Because for years, I have been helping people get there. I have done this day in an out. And this thread is the culmination of what I have learned and strategies I get people to implement to ensure they reach their goals, instead of spinning their wheels for more years following dumb rules.
And don't get me wrong, a person should have a varied and nutritionally dense diet, but after a little fine tuning, most of us can do that on a cut. So adding some additional junk food during a bulk, can go a long way. Now if you want to discuss bulk/cut/maintenance strategies, by all means we can do it. I know for one, when I cut, junk is the first thing going out the door or I limit to 10% of calories, and not every day. And with the exception of a honey bun, I have used every one of those items on that list during a cut. In fact, I went from 220 and 175 @ 16% by doing so. But I also incorporate 30g+ of fiber (mainly fruit and sometimes a quest bar), 150g to 180g of protein and lots of healthy fats.
And for fun, I will throw in another one of my threads.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503952/bro-do-you-even-eat-clean/p1
Well said. I guess I am biased because I want to cut right now and the last time I tried bulking, I porked out like a blowfish. So I am very gun shy about bulking. Maybe it works for some but bulking diets do not seem to work. One day I would like to put another 5lbs rock hard muscle and on my 5 foot 6 frame. I am 142 lbs now with about 13 percent fat.1 -
Auroraskies2015 wrote: »
thanks
Pasta pasta pasta, with bacon bits, mushroom, and sause made with cream, and cheddar cheese grilled. It puts a lot of callories in your diet, and hard mints, as a snack during the day, every now and again.0 -
For me losing weight has always been simple. Gaining weight has always been simple. Maintaining my weight while eating healthy and staying active is the true *kitten*! When I am active I lose weight by consuming 3,500 - 4,000 calories a day. If I eat pizza and other junk and go back to my sedentary lifestyle I gain weight. However, to maintain my weight and stay active while eating healthy I need to consume damn near 5,000 calories or more a day.0
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nmbr1analyst wrote: »I'm so glad to see this post... it's inspired me to keep trying. I was feeling really discouraged this morning. I'm 115 1lbs... and I'd like to gain 15 more pounds to achieve my ideal weight. No matter what I do, I seem to have always hovered around 115 & 120 lbs. So I've become deliberately focused on gaining weight by increasing my calorie intake to 2100 calories a day (this is what MyFitnessPal came up with when I entered my weight gain goals), but trying to achieve that everyday is hard! I fell 1800 calories short yesterday. I've been doing this a week, most times I met my goal, but this is harder than I thought. And even after a week I don't see not even the slightest improvement.
I eat a lot of foods on this list... I'm thinking maybe I should start drinking ensures with meals and in between meals. I do believe my metabolism is very high. I'm 44 y/o and have weighed the same since high school. Smh.
I am the exact same way! I'm glad I am not alone on the journey! I have always ate what I want, healthy or unhealthy, and can't gain a lb!! So I'm hoping that this will help me meet my goal! I'm 32 y/o weighing at 105 lbs and wanting to be 115-120 lbs. Meeting the calories daily is tough!!!0 -
I'm also a hard gainer but I'm cyclist and basketball player also its make gains more hard for me and I thought that if I keep away those foods unhealthy I will be ok and gain weight in healthy way .. what's my option ??
0 -
asmaayoussefLSE wrote: »I'm also a hard gainer but I'm cyclist and basketball player also its make gains more hard for me and I thought that if I keep away those foods unhealthy I will be ok and gain weight in healthy way .. what's my option ??
peanut butter1 -
Im 102 i was 107pds i lost weight and i lost my appetite im trying too gain weight the dr got me on a appetite improver meds. It helps me get my appetite back wish me luck because im really looking to gain more than i am now i eat but we are supposed to eat 5 times a day everyday and never miss breakfast2
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