Running - Trying to Improve but Frustrated
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@AsrarHussain I have no idea how I land and I think this is largely where I am going wrong!!
As I say, I know that I have an (ever so) slightly in-turned left foot and this causes me problems sometimes but above and beyond that, I'm not very good at recognizing gaits and foot strikes etc - still a bit of a newbie idiot when it comes to things like that !!
Don't worry too much about it. Foot strike isn't something new runners generally have to worry about, and honestly, don't take advice on how to adjust your gait from someone on the internet who hasn't seen you run. Some people heel strike, some forefoot strike. Its one part of the gait, and has to be looked at in the context of your overall mechanics. For some runners, a heel strike is the lowest impact.
Anyway, try the usual suspects first. Get good shoes that are right for you. Build up slowly and consistently. Do not try speed work until you have been running regularly for a number of months (you won't get many gains from it anyway - you need to build up your musculature and cardio system to handle the load first).0 -
It's just advice do not say my advice is worthless. I simply gave my input and feet striking is a crucial thing if you are getting pain that means something is not right so fixing something would be important0
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AsrarHussain wrote: »It's just advice do not say my advice is worthless. I simply gave my input and feet striking is a crucial thing if you are getting pain that means something is not right so fixing something would be important
You have no way of knowing whether or not the OPs strike is causing pain, and it is irresponsible to tell them to overhaul their gait with out seeing them run. Gait changes will cause far more problems if not done correctly. Just because a forefoot strike is "in" right now among pop running culture does not mean it should be blindly parroted to everyone on the interwebs.
Long term injury rates are the same between forefoot, midfoot, and heel strikers. Impact patterns vary as function of all the components of gait. If you don't actually know what you are talking about, you should refrain from speaking.
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I run on the treadmill (I live in Alberta and it's winter, looking forward to spring and running outside). I've slowly decreased my 5k time by increasing the treadmill speed. I have it set on a hill type program that changes the incline from 1%-4% (keeping an average of 2%). Every week or so I increase my speed by 0.1 or 0.2 kph. Doesn't seem like much, but I've managed to get my 5k time down from about 40 minutes to just over 35 minutes (right now my goal is under 35 minutes).0
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AsrarHussain wrote: »Pay attention to how your feet land this is important. Try to relax and try to land mid foot then see how it feels IMO I think it's because you land heel first
Have you watched elite runners? You'd be surprised by how many of them are heel strikers.....
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My mile time got much shorter after I started lifting. I went from running a 10 minute mile to an 8 minute mile, much to my surprise, as I wasn't training for it. Lift and get those legs strong!0
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ThickMcRunFast wrote: »AsrarHussain wrote: »It's just advice do not say my advice is worthless. I simply gave my input and feet striking is a crucial thing if you are getting pain that means something is not right so fixing something would be important
You have no way of knowing whether or not the OPs strike is causing pain, and it is irresponsible to tell them to overhaul their gait with out seeing them run. Gait changes will cause far more problems if not done correctly. Just because a forefoot strike is "in" right now among pop running culture does not mean it should be blindly parroted to everyone on the interwebs.
Long term injury rates are the same between forefoot, midfoot, and heel strikers. Impact patterns vary as function of all the components of gait. If you don't actually know what you are talking about, you should refrain from speaking.
Don't listen to this chick she sucks at running.-2 -
The reason I said mid feet striking because its q common problem I had problems with. If he tries mid feet striking and feels better what's the harm then0
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ThickMcRunFast wrote: »AsrarHussain wrote: »It's just advice do not say my advice is worthless. I simply gave my input and feet striking is a crucial thing if you are getting pain that means something is not right so fixing something would be important
You have no way of knowing whether or not the OPs strike is causing pain, and it is irresponsible to tell them to overhaul their gait with out seeing them run. Gait changes will cause far more problems if not done correctly. Just because a forefoot strike is "in" right now among pop running culture does not mean it should be blindly parroted to everyone on the interwebs.
Long term injury rates are the same between forefoot, midfoot, and heel strikers. Impact patterns vary as function of all the components of gait. If you don't actually know what you are talking about, you should refrain from speaking.
Don't listen to this chick she sucks at running.
Bro, DYEBeerMile?0 -
ThickMcRunFast wrote: »ThickMcRunFast wrote: »AsrarHussain wrote: »It's just advice do not say my advice is worthless. I simply gave my input and feet striking is a crucial thing if you are getting pain that means something is not right so fixing something would be important
You have no way of knowing whether or not the OPs strike is causing pain, and it is irresponsible to tell them to overhaul their gait with out seeing them run. Gait changes will cause far more problems if not done correctly. Just because a forefoot strike is "in" right now among pop running culture does not mean it should be blindly parroted to everyone on the interwebs.
Long term injury rates are the same between forefoot, midfoot, and heel strikers. Impact patterns vary as function of all the components of gait. If you don't actually know what you are talking about, you should refrain from speaking.
Don't listen to this chick she sucks at running.
Bro, DYEBeerMile?
I can beermile better than you in my sleep, peasant.-1 -
AsrarHussain wrote: »The reason I said mid feet striking because its q common problem I had problems with. If he tries mid feet striking and feels better what's the harm then
This worked for me so everyone should try it blindly and without context.0 -
AsrarHussain wrote: »The reason I said mid feet striking because its q common problem I had problems with. If he tries mid feet striking and feels better what's the harm then
Because its like burning your house down to fix a leaky pipe0 -
IMO trying to change your running gait is very difficult. I'd try everything else first. I think running in a way that doesn't feel natural could also cause you to over compensate in ways that could also cause injury. Maybe get a gait analysis at a local running club or something?
I had one done at the YMCA here because I was concerned that the stress fractures I was getting could be a mechanics issue. The guy who evaluated me does ultras and he said I have a super neutral gait and landed midfoot. He also stressed the importance of not over-striding, which I don't do anyway. He did recommend I try a pair of Hokas instead of my normal Brooks, which I haven't done yet. It was worth the $30 to learn I wasn't causing my injuries with the way I run.0 -
BrianSharpe wrote: »I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a "dodgy knee" when running outside. Have you actually had some sort of medical diagnosis or is this, perhaps, a glute and/or hip weakness issue that can be addressed through exercise?
This may help (I hope).....
runnersworld.com/newswire/to-relieve-runners-knee-strengthen-your-hips
You don't say how long you've been running for but I'll echo the comment that running longer slower distances may help (you need to build your aerobic base first). I once had a wise triathlon coach tell me not to worry about running a fast 5K until I could run a slow 10K.
Once you've built your aerobic base then you can add in speed work (intervals, hills) which can be done on a treadmill by varying speed & incline (some treadmills will have built in programs).
It's discouraging to some athletes that bike fitness, swimming fitness etc don't translate into running fitness, it comes down to specificity....to be a better runner you need to run more.
When I ran my first 5K my only goal was to come in under 40 min (and I barely squeaked under that) since then I've come within seconds of busting 25:00 and have gone on to run half-marathon and Olympic distance duathlons.....it takes time, consistency and patience. Keep at it!
@BrianSharpe - I will have a look at this. I have always had a slightly in-turned left foot which really affects my gait when I run outside on an uneven surface and I found that after a few weeks of running outside every other day, my knee was really giving me a lot of pain. Nothing diagnosed medically, just stopped running for a while and it improved but I find that if I try to run outside, the pain reappears after a few runs. I know that the quick fix would be to get a super duper expensive pair of running shoes to improve gait etc, but I'm poor!! haha!!
Actually the fix most likely is to resolve the underlying glute/hip weakness that has been mentioned. You will drive yourself nuts (and to the poorhouse) trying to find the "ideal" pair of shoes that are a crutch for the real issue.
Best of luck.0 -
@AsrarHussain - I have done couch to 5K and can run 5k outside in a slightly quicker time (probably about 35-36 mins(, but I tend to get a lot of pain in my knee when I run outside
Just throwing it out there but when you run outside do you run on a street that has a crown (center of the road higher than the sides)? The constant running with one leg lower than the other can result in issues.
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The easiest and least risky way of improving at running when you are a relative beginner is just to run further, but slowly. If you get used to doing longer runs, and gradually increase the frequency, you'll find you automatically get faster at 5k without even trying.BrianSharpe wrote: »You don't say how long you've been running for but I'll echo the comment that running longer slower distances may help (you need to build your aerobic base first). I once had a wise triathlon coach tell me not to worry about running a fast 5K until I could run a slow 10K.
Once you've built your aerobic base then you can add in speed work (intervals, hills) which can be done on a treadmill by varying speed & incline (some treadmills will have built in programs).
It's discouraging to some athletes that bike fitness, swimming fitness etc don't translate into running fitness, it comes down to specificity....to be a better runner you need to run more.
When I ran my first 5K my only goal was to come in under 40 min (and I barely squeaked under that) since then I've come within seconds of busting 25:00 and have gone on to run half-marathon and Olympic distance duathlons.....it takes time, consistency and patience. Keep at it!ThickMcRunFast wrote: »Anyway, try the usual suspects first. Get good shoes that are right for you. Build up slowly and consistently. Do not try speed work until you have been running regularly for a number of months (you won't get many gains from it anyway - you need to build up your musculature and cardio system to handle the load first).I didn't read all the responses, but yes, you ABSOLUTELY will improve by continuing to do just what you're doing. There is room for a lot of improvement for all new runners. I would say my race pace continued to improve for more than a year when I started running, JUST by running more at the same slow pace. Don't increase distance more than 10% per week, but sticking with your comfortable pace is just fine. Two years in, you would need to start looking at speed work, etc. to get faster, but not yet.
You've already gotten a lot of people giving you good advice so I'll just highlight the ones who know what they are talking about. I'm guessing you are a new runner. What you are doing right now is called "building a base". What you want to be able to do, is continue running X times a week without injury. Someone said 80% of your runs should be easy? I'd say 100% of your runs right now should be easy. What you want to do now is build up mileage. So you can run 3 miles 5 days a week. Like others have said, start slowly increasing total weekly mileage by about 10% a week (and maybe have a cut back week, you don't always have to increase week after week after week). So if you are running 3x6 = 18 miles now, adding 1.8 miles would be 'safe' for next week. Maybe make 3 of your runs 3.5 miles and keep the other 3 at 3. Eventually you want a spread of shorter runs (2 or 3 miles) and a longer run (6-9 miles). Do NOT worry about speed. Just focus on effort. Look up the 'talk test' for running, that's a great way to know how fast you should be running.
As you lose weight, you will get faster. As you keep logging miles, you will get faster. I wouldn't do any speed work until you are so bored that you can't help it. For comparison, I am lighter than you and running 2.5 miles in about 40 minutes right now. So don't feel bad. Build your base. Also, you are now a runner! So poke around on sites like Runners World. You'll see a lot of the things being said here said over there too. Build your knowledge base while you are building your running base. And great job and keep at it.0 -
At your weight your time is very, very good.
Keep losing weight, you'll get faster
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Just to throw my 2 cents in there:
More slow miles. You've got lots of room to improve, and almost all that improvement will come from 2 places: less mass and more miles.
Don't do any speedwork, unless you want an injury.
If your goal is running faster, don't lift either. Any time lifting is worthless on getting you faster, you'd be better off running more.
Going to the doctor and having your legs checked out would be a very good step too! Orthopedics or physical therapy might be the cure.
I'm taller, older, lighter, and more male than you, but just with slow-to-me miles and no speedwork or weights, I'm consistently doing 20:30 5ks.0 -
... and live in England, so lets face it the weather isn't the best ...
You're in Brum... In November and December I was doing a lot of outside running in the area, nothing wrong with the weather.
But to weigh in alongside the others; more long slow miles, and try new shoes. I note you mention what sounds like overpronation, I have similar and for road running rely on motion control shoes.0 -
You are currently only running two days a week, which is enough to maintain your current level of running fitness. To improve you need to run 3 or 4 days a week. One of your runs should evolve into a long run (ex. 3 days/wk 5k & 1 day/wk 10k). Having the aerobic capacity to run longer distances means that you should be able to run a short distance faster. You might need to drop some of your other workouts that are leg killers, like HIIT & spinning, to avoid overtaxing your legs. After a couple months you might be able to work these back into your training rotation.
You should continue lifting weights to maintain your current muscle mass while losing weight and to gain strength. My personal experience is that my form & efficiency improved after I started doing Strong Lifts.
As far as your knee/foot issue, you should see a podiatrist. Since you obviously have some kind of bio-mechanical issue it would be better to have a professional with years of training and experience diagnose it and provide recommendations, than some college kid working at a shoe store that might have watched a video on gait analysis. If you do go see a podiatrist then you want to make sure that he performs a gait analysis and that you discuss physical therapy exercises, what type of shoes you should use (neutral, support, motion control), and if you would need orthotics (custom or over-the-counter).
The cost of support and motion control shoes can be significantly higher than neutral shoes, so you want to determine if they are need before sinking the extra money into them. The other problem is that if you don't require the extra support, then it can do more harm than good.
In the short term pay attention to how you run and how your feet land. Are your feet landing like sledge hammers, are your knees straight (nearly locked), do you tend to bounce/hop a lot with each step? These are all things that can increase the impact force of each step you take while running. When you run on a treadmill some of the impact is being absorbed by the treadmill, which would lessen the effect on your knees. When you run outside you might try to run on the softest surface available. Your preference order should be firm ground, gravel, asphalt, and concrete as a last resort. Sand and soft ground should be avoided because they can cause other problems.0
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