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Are all calories the same??
Replies
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Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...0
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Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
Nah. As someone who has eaten for extended periods of time low carb and extended periods of time not low carb...that's a total myth.Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.
This has been my understanding too. I'm just very interested how Gale and others I've seen, manage to maintain on such high fat/calories with very little activity.
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Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
Nah. As someone who has eaten for extended periods of time low carb and extended periods of time not low carb...that's a total myth.Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.
This has been my understanding too. I'm just very interested how Gale and others I've seen, manage to maintain on such high fat/calories with very little activity.
That's what we're asking. His diary is closed. We have only his word that he's actually eating as many calories as he claims. I can only say that it is highly unlikely that his calorie count is, on a daily basis, anywhere close to accurate. Unless people weigh all of their solid food and measure all of their liquids, logging accurately, it's very easy to be way off on calorie counts.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
Nah. As someone who has eaten for extended periods of time low carb and extended periods of time not low carb...that's a total myth.Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.
This has been my understanding too. I'm just very interested how Gale and others I've seen, manage to maintain on such high fat/calories with very little activity.
That's what we're asking. His diary is closed. We have only his word that he's actually eating as many calories as he claims. I can only say that it is highly unlikely that his calorie count is, on a daily basis, anywhere close to accurate. Unless people weigh all of their solid food and measure all of their liquids, logging accurately, it's very easy to be way off on calorie counts.
True,hopefully @GaleHawkins will come back to clarify.
Just to add, I don't want you to feel pounced on Gale, as I know has happened in the past
. This is not my intention, I have always been genuinely intrigued by your diet, and would love to see your diary. 0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
Nah. As someone who has eaten for extended periods of time low carb and extended periods of time not low carb...that's a total myth.Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.
This has been my understanding too. I'm just very interested how Gale and others I've seen, manage to maintain on such high fat/calories with very little activity.
That's what we're asking. His diary is closed. We have only his word that he's actually eating as many calories as he claims. I can only say that it is highly unlikely that his calorie count is, on a daily basis, anywhere close to accurate. Unless people weigh all of their solid food and measure all of their liquids, logging accurately, it's very easy to be way off on calorie counts.
True,hopefully @GaleHawkins will come back to clarify.
Just to add, I don't want you to feel pounced on Gale, as I know has happened in the past . This is not my intention, I have always been genuinely intrigued by your diet, and would love to see your diary.
Or perhaps like the number of licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop, Gale's diet and true TDEE will be something the world will never know.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
Nah. As someone who has eaten for extended periods of time low carb and extended periods of time not low carb...that's a total myth.Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
no, it wouldn't matter - CICO still applies. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It doesn't matter if those calories come from fat, carbs, or protein.
This has been my understanding too. I'm just very interested how Gale and others I've seen, manage to maintain on such high fat/calories with very little activity.
That's what we're asking. His diary is closed. We have only his word that he's actually eating as many calories as he claims. I can only say that it is highly unlikely that his calorie count is, on a daily basis, anywhere close to accurate. Unless people weigh all of their solid food and measure all of their liquids, logging accurately, it's very easy to be way off on calorie counts.
I thought based on 1000+ posts people like me who do not log always were way under on calorie counts.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.0 -
That you encourage others to eat enormous amounts of sat fat is problematic, IMO. Why not at least open your diary to support what you claim?
Good video re healthy diets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYnihrPvtqk&feature=youtu.be 0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Perhaps the claim that you can eat more on low carb and maintain or not gain is true in Gale's case. I have no idea, I haven't had the guts to test the theory...
People have that perception based on feeling full more frequently. The fact is, fat has a very low TEF, and the diets that would increase expenditure would be high protein and high fiber.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
Your article is behind paid walls. But if you want to do some research on the blue zones, please tell me how carbs cause cancer. They are the longest living society on the planet.0 -
YES. a calorie is a calorie, REGARDLESS of where it comes from. Some calories are more effective because they get burned slower due to the food or drink they come from.0
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YES. a calorie is a calorie, REGARDLESS of where it comes from. Some calories are more effective because they get burned slower due to the food or drink they come from.
You should probably read the OP. Not arguing that. This is more talking about effects of those calories vs is a calorie a calorie.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
If your paywall link is that lung cancer and GI load article that went out, it was already covered as being a statistical association.
I'm sure, however, that you'll gladly ignore the IARC designating red and processed meats as carcinogens because it doesn't conform to your world view.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »That you encourage others to eat enormous amounts of sat fat is problematic, IMO. Why not at least open your diary to support what you claim?
Good video re healthy diets:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYnihrPvtqk&feature=youtu.be
@lemurcat12 if you will read my last post you would know I do not encourage anyone to eat anything. If I had a diary to open you would claim I made it up.
The last few words of my last post this AM read:
"Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case."0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Probably because you probably don't. I remember years ago thinking I was eating huge amounts of calories before on low carb because I was eating so many chicken breasts. Now that I've honestly logged I can look back and realize how few calories it probably was. The numbers would fall apart in a metabolic ward as it has every time it has been analyzed.0 -
I'll remain dubious of anyone claiming they eat x calories that does practice some sort of open logging.0
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@GaleHawkins
Again Gale your numbers do not add up. Eating 2500-3000 is your maintenance calories, not buying it and all the exercise you can manage is 1/4 mile a day?
You have said you ingest 1200 calories in coconut oil but that leaves lots of calories left. How many grams of protein do you eat because you claim you keep your carbs below 50g per day. Again the math is fuzzy.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
Your article is behind paid walls. But if you want to do some research on the blue zones, please tell me how carbs cause cancer. They are the longest living society on the planet.
@psulemon I am sorry if you could not open the link above so here is another link to the article below. Also thanks for your diary because that is the first one I have ever seen. myfitnesspal.com/reports/printable_diary/psulemon
Another link to the article that you said was behind paid walls in your case.
nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-8-75
Here is a link to the PDF of the article. It contains 16 pages.
download.springer.com/static/pdf/831/art%253A10.1186%252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fnutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com%2Farticle%2F10.1186%2F1743-7075-8-75&token2=exp=1457962962~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F831%2Fart%25253A10.1186%25252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf*~hmac=e01f1f16e538ac99ac989d64169b9171ad9afa61c91390a2124765ef59d16381
If all else fails for you below is the conclusion at the above links.
"Conclusions
(i) We summarize our main findings from the literature regarding the role of dietary CHO restriction in cancer development and outcome.
Most, if not all, tumor cells have a high demand on glucose compared to benign cells of the same tissue and conduct glycolysis even in the presence of oxygen (the Warburg effect). In addition, many cancer cells express insulin receptors (IRs) and show hyperactivation of the IGF1R-IR pathway. Evidence exists that chronically elevated blood glucose, insulin and IGF1 levels facilitate tumorigenesis and worsen the outcome in cancer patients.
(ii) The involvement of the glucose-insulin axis may also explain the association of the metabolic syndrome with an increased risk for several cancers. CHO restriction has already been shown to exert favorable effects in patients with the metabolic syndrome. Epidemiological and anthropological studies indicate that restricting dietary CHOs could be beneficial in decreasing cancer risk.
(iii) Many cancer patients, in particular those with advanced stages of the disease, exhibit altered whole-body metabolism marked by increased plasma levels of inflammatory molecules, impaired glycogen synthesis, increased proteolysis and increased fat utilization in muscle tissue, increased lipolysis in adipose tissue and increased gluconeogenesis by the liver. High fat, low CHO diets aim at accounting for these metabolic alterations. Studies conducted so far have shown that such diets are safe and likely beneficial, in particular for advanced stage cancer patients.
(iv)CHO restriction mimics the metabolic state of calorie restriction or - in the case of KDs - fasting. The beneficial effects of calorie restriction and fasting on cancer risk and progression are well established. CHO restriction thus opens the possibility to target the same underlying mechanisms without the side-effects of hunger and weight loss.
(v) Some laboratory studies indicate a direct anti-tumor potential of ketone bodies. During the past years, a multitude of mouse studies indeed proved anti-tumor effects of KDs for various tumor types, and a few case reports and pre-clinical studies obtained promising results in cancer patients as well. Several registered clinical trials are going to investigate the case for a KD as a supportive therapeutic option in oncology."
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »I'll remain dubious of anyone claiming they eat x calories that does practice some sort of open logging.
@EvgeniZyntx does not all self reporting remain dubious as social media accounts in general. 0 -
What I gather from that article is that carbs on their own do not directly cause cancer, but elevated glucose and insulin levels play a role in cancer development. I tend to think that in practicality, when it comes to the role of carbs, what people should focus on is maximizing insulin sensitivity and improving glucose metabolism (for those in which that is impaired). For some people reducing carbs would help, but there are other ways as well (such as keeping up a moderate/vigorous exercise routine).0
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Well there is a lot evidence that the carbs from HFCS cause cancer. Feel free to debate this all you want for I will not be in the debate itself, but the link is down below.
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2012-10/high-fructose-corn-syrup-and-pancreatic-cancer
Does it hold true for everyone? Who knows, but it should be a concern since the introduction of Corn as a way to make cheaper sources of food in the 1970's, obesity has risen incredibly. Must be a coincidence...
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GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
Your article is behind paid walls. But if you want to do some research on the blue zones, please tell me how carbs cause cancer. They are the longest living society on the planet.
@psulemon I am sorry if you could not open the link above so here is another link to the article below. Also thanks for your diary because that is the first one I have ever seen. myfitnesspal.com/reports/printable_diary/psulemon
Another link to the article that you said was behind paid walls in your case.
nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-8-75
Here is a link to the PDF of the article. It contains 16 pages.
download.springer.com/static/pdf/831/art%253A10.1186%252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fnutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com%2Farticle%2F10.1186%2F1743-7075-8-75&token2=exp=1457962962~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F831%2Fart%25253A10.1186%25252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf*~hmac=e01f1f16e538ac99ac989d64169b9171ad9afa61c91390a2124765ef59d16381
If all else fails for you below is the conclusion at the above links.
"Conclusions
(i) We summarize our main findings from the literature regarding the role of dietary CHO restriction in cancer development and outcome.
Most, if not all, tumor cells have a high demand on glucose compared to benign cells of the same tissue and conduct glycolysis even in the presence of oxygen (the Warburg effect). In addition, many cancer cells express insulin receptors (IRs) and show hyperactivation of the IGF1R-IR pathway. Evidence exists that chronically elevated blood glucose, insulin and IGF1 levels facilitate tumorigenesis and worsen the outcome in cancer patients.
(ii) The involvement of the glucose-insulin axis may also explain the association of the metabolic syndrome with an increased risk for several cancers. CHO restriction has already been shown to exert favorable effects in patients with the metabolic syndrome. Epidemiological and anthropological studies indicate that restricting dietary CHOs could be beneficial in decreasing cancer risk.
(iii) Many cancer patients, in particular those with advanced stages of the disease, exhibit altered whole-body metabolism marked by increased plasma levels of inflammatory molecules, impaired glycogen synthesis, increased proteolysis and increased fat utilization in muscle tissue, increased lipolysis in adipose tissue and increased gluconeogenesis by the liver. High fat, low CHO diets aim at accounting for these metabolic alterations. Studies conducted so far have shown that such diets are safe and likely beneficial, in particular for advanced stage cancer patients.
(iv)CHO restriction mimics the metabolic state of calorie restriction or - in the case of KDs - fasting. The beneficial effects of calorie restriction and fasting on cancer risk and progression are well established. CHO restriction thus opens the possibility to target the same underlying mechanisms without the side-effects of hunger and weight loss.
(v) Some laboratory studies indicate a direct anti-tumor potential of ketone bodies. During the past years, a multitude of mouse studies indeed proved anti-tumor effects of KDs for various tumor types, and a few case reports and pre-clinical studies obtained promising results in cancer patients as well. Several registered clinical trials are going to investigate the case for a KD as a supportive therapeutic option in oncology."
That article isn't about causing cancer, but stopping proliferation.
Right off the bat - mentioning hunter-gatherer diets in an article about cancer is something that worries me. The most cancer preventative effect of hunter-gatherer life is that many die too young to ever get cancer. Not to mention, Cordain's supposition that ancestral diet is low carb has been debunked over, and over, and over again on these boards. Hunter-gatherers eat all kinds of carb levels, sometimes into 80% of their calories, but not even the Inuit eat one that approaches ketogenic levels.
And no, you can't starve cancer of glucose to kill it. https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ketogenic-diets-for-cancer-hype-versus-science/0 -
What is the average lifespan for those people? These days people in the Western world are getting cancer at younger and younger ages though.
Right off the bat - mentioning hunter-gatherer diets in an article about cancer is something that worries me. The most cancer preventative effect of hunter-gatherer life is that many die too young to ever get cancer.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
Your article is behind paid walls. But if you want to do some research on the blue zones, please tell me how carbs cause cancer. They are the longest living society on the planet.
@psulemon I am sorry if you could not open the link above so here is another link to the article below. Also thanks for your diary because that is the first one I have ever seen. myfitnesspal.com/reports/printable_diary/psulemon
Another link to the article that you said was behind paid walls in your case.
nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-8-75
Here is a link to the PDF of the article. It contains 16 pages.
download.springer.com/static/pdf/831/art%253A10.1186%252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fnutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com%2Farticle%2F10.1186%2F1743-7075-8-75&token2=exp=1457962962~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F831%2Fart%25253A10.1186%25252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf*~hmac=e01f1f16e538ac99ac989d64169b9171ad9afa61c91390a2124765ef59d16381
If all else fails for you below is the conclusion at the above links.
"Conclusions
(i) We summarize our main findings from the literature regarding the role of dietary CHO restriction in cancer development and outcome.
Most, if not all, tumor cells have a high demand on glucose compared to benign cells of the same tissue and conduct glycolysis even in the presence of oxygen (the Warburg effect). In addition, many cancer cells express insulin receptors (IRs) and show hyperactivation of the IGF1R-IR pathway. Evidence exists that chronically elevated blood glucose, insulin and IGF1 levels facilitate tumorigenesis and worsen the outcome in cancer patients.
(ii) The involvement of the glucose-insulin axis may also explain the association of the metabolic syndrome with an increased risk for several cancers. CHO restriction has already been shown to exert favorable effects in patients with the metabolic syndrome. Epidemiological and anthropological studies indicate that restricting dietary CHOs could be beneficial in decreasing cancer risk.
(iii) Many cancer patients, in particular those with advanced stages of the disease, exhibit altered whole-body metabolism marked by increased plasma levels of inflammatory molecules, impaired glycogen synthesis, increased proteolysis and increased fat utilization in muscle tissue, increased lipolysis in adipose tissue and increased gluconeogenesis by the liver. High fat, low CHO diets aim at accounting for these metabolic alterations. Studies conducted so far have shown that such diets are safe and likely beneficial, in particular for advanced stage cancer patients.
(iv)CHO restriction mimics the metabolic state of calorie restriction or - in the case of KDs - fasting. The beneficial effects of calorie restriction and fasting on cancer risk and progression are well established. CHO restriction thus opens the possibility to target the same underlying mechanisms without the side-effects of hunger and weight loss.
(v) Some laboratory studies indicate a direct anti-tumor potential of ketone bodies. During the past years, a multitude of mouse studies indeed proved anti-tumor effects of KDs for various tumor types, and a few case reports and pre-clinical studies obtained promising results in cancer patients as well. Several registered clinical trials are going to investigate the case for a KD as a supportive therapeutic option in oncology."
0 -
Yes, food only started getting cheaper in the 1970s, obesity has risen only in correlation with it and not with changes in calories in and out.Well there is a lot evidence that the carbs from HFCS cause cancer. Feel free to debate this all you want for I will not be in the debate itself, but the link is down below.
http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2012-10/high-fructose-corn-syrup-and-pancreatic-cancer
Does it hold true for everyone? Who knows, but it should be a concern since the introduction of Corn as a way to make cheaper sources of food in the 1970's, obesity has risen incredibly. Must be a coincidence...
There's a lot of evidence of something in your post, but it isn't that HFCS causes cancer. You frankly won't debate it because you're wrong.
It is like going, "hey I'm not here to debate this, but actually time travelers are responsible for shaping history as we know it. Links below."
The link is to what calls itself a review but is more of an opinion piece based on stitching together several correlative studies, that all go against actual animal studies.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
What is the average lifespan for those people? These days people in the Western world are getting cancer at younger and younger ages though.
Right off the bat - mentioning hunter-gatherer diets in an article about cancer is something that worries me. The most cancer preventative effect of hunter-gatherer life is that many die too young to ever get cancer.GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I think this varies from person to person. It is the fact carbs can increase cancer risks and fats do not that got my attention base on some research. While my 50 pound weigh loss has now been maintained for one year that I am off of most all sugars and all forms of grain all I know is my joint and muscle pain is well managed in my case if I keep total daily carbs <50 grams.
Carbs dont increase cancer. And thr healthiest countries in the world are very heavily carb based.
@psulemon oh how I wish your statement was medically true about cancer risks.
medscape.com/viewarticle/757713
Folks as many of you know I received my OD degree from Southern College of Optometry of Memphis TN in 1986.
Many of you know I am 65 and was about house bound with failing health when I started researching how to prevent/cure cancer because the doctors wanted me to start Enbrel injections for pain manage and I was very concerned about getting cancer due to taking Enbrel in my weaken state of health.
Many of you know I will never attempt to post false and misleading medical info to hurt others. Many of you know I do not give a rats tail what negative people want to post about me.
I post only for the few that come here wanting to prevent premature death in themselves or other important people in their lives.
I was blindly doing Low Carb High Fat before I heard/read the term LCHF. For some reason I felt if I could get off of sugar and carbs that my joint and muscle plan might go away and I could avoid taking Enbrel.
For two months I tried but could not get off of high carbs. Finally Oct 2014 30 days before I was to start Enbrel injections I visualized myself in my coffin because I never got off of carbs and died from cancer.
To this day I do not remember the next two weeks when I went off of most all forms of sugar and all forms of all grains. My family confirms it was as hellish for them as it was for me. After those two hellish weeks the cravings just faded fast and only try to come back if I eat >50 grams of carbs daily.
Remember I had peaked at 250 pounds a few time but never more when I was eating 4000-5000+ calories of mostly carbs for many years. I set down and added up my calories for the past 24 hours and it was 2800 after I finished off the last three oz in a box of Philadelphia Cream Cheese for those who questioned my count.
2500 calories is about half what I was eating when I weighed 250 pounds. After going LCHF I lost another 30 pounds which put me at 200 for the first time in 22 years at the time. I have eaten 2500-3000 calories most days for the last 12 months and still weigh 200.
Since the age 12 I expect I have eaten 4000-6000 calories most days. I grew up on our farm doing manual labor before and after school. After getting out of the Navy and starting to college at age 26 was the first time my weight had hit 198. The arthritis was starting to really slow me down at that point in time.
Since LCHF I have ditched using the power chairs that I have, My blood work and general health is better than when I was 45. My 40 years of IBS has been totally gone for over a year now. I can get out and use the tractor, backhoe and dump truck around the farm all day but that is more of a hobby in my case. I can change oil and stuff like that once again. I have a very large head that may burn a lot of calories when I am doing research.
Seriously folks I do not know why I burn so many calories but I am sure my body would stop burning so many calories if I cut back on the number that I eat but that would be pointless because I enjoy eating 2500-3000 to maintain a non obese weight. I have worked to up the health and number of my mitochondria with some of the anti-cancer protocols that I have been on for the past year.
Who knows and who cares about this old man. I plan to live to be 110 and realized that was a lie at my weight, failing health and still sucking up carbs like crazy. Now I am having fun again and where I make it to 110 or I die tonight I am good either way or something in the middle.
I am a simple man who views life as short at best then you meet your maker. Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case.
Your article is behind paid walls. But if you want to do some research on the blue zones, please tell me how carbs cause cancer. They are the longest living society on the planet.
@psulemon I am sorry if you could not open the link above so here is another link to the article below. Also thanks for your diary because that is the first one I have ever seen. myfitnesspal.com/reports/printable_diary/psulemon
Another link to the article that you said was behind paid walls in your case.
nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-7075-8-75
Here is a link to the PDF of the article. It contains 16 pages.
download.springer.com/static/pdf/831/art%253A10.1186%252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fnutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com%2Farticle%2F10.1186%2F1743-7075-8-75&token2=exp=1457962962~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F831%2Fart%25253A10.1186%25252F1743-7075-8-75.pdf*~hmac=e01f1f16e538ac99ac989d64169b9171ad9afa61c91390a2124765ef59d16381
If all else fails for you below is the conclusion at the above links.
"Conclusions
(i) We summarize our main findings from the literature regarding the role of dietary CHO restriction in cancer development and outcome.
Most, if not all, tumor cells have a high demand on glucose compared to benign cells of the same tissue and conduct glycolysis even in the presence of oxygen (the Warburg effect). In addition, many cancer cells express insulin receptors (IRs) and show hyperactivation of the IGF1R-IR pathway. Evidence exists that chronically elevated blood glucose, insulin and IGF1 levels facilitate tumorigenesis and worsen the outcome in cancer patients.
(ii) The involvement of the glucose-insulin axis may also explain the association of the metabolic syndrome with an increased risk for several cancers. CHO restriction has already been shown to exert favorable effects in patients with the metabolic syndrome. Epidemiological and anthropological studies indicate that restricting dietary CHOs could be beneficial in decreasing cancer risk.
(iii) Many cancer patients, in particular those with advanced stages of the disease, exhibit altered whole-body metabolism marked by increased plasma levels of inflammatory molecules, impaired glycogen synthesis, increased proteolysis and increased fat utilization in muscle tissue, increased lipolysis in adipose tissue and increased gluconeogenesis by the liver. High fat, low CHO diets aim at accounting for these metabolic alterations. Studies conducted so far have shown that such diets are safe and likely beneficial, in particular for advanced stage cancer patients.
(iv)CHO restriction mimics the metabolic state of calorie restriction or - in the case of KDs - fasting. The beneficial effects of calorie restriction and fasting on cancer risk and progression are well established. CHO restriction thus opens the possibility to target the same underlying mechanisms without the side-effects of hunger and weight loss.
(v) Some laboratory studies indicate a direct anti-tumor potential of ketone bodies. During the past years, a multitude of mouse studies indeed proved anti-tumor effects of KDs for various tumor types, and a few case reports and pre-clinical studies obtained promising results in cancer patients as well. Several registered clinical trials are going to investigate the case for a KD as a supportive therapeutic option in oncology."
Are they?0 -
The tukisenta eat a 90% carbs diet. They just found out their diet causes cancer..........because carbs. Do they look surprised, the guy on the left looks really suprised?
0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That you encourage others to eat enormous amounts of sat fat is problematic, IMO. Why not at least open your diary to support what you claim?
Good video re healthy diets:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYnihrPvtqk&feature=youtu.be
@lemurcat12 if you will read my last post you would know I do not encourage anyone to eat anything. If I had a diary to open you would claim I made it up.
You frequently do promote certain ways of eating, including IMO excessive sat fat and cutting out sugar."Best of success to each of you looking for a better way to eat for better health. You will find YOUR way to eat if you keep looking. I think there are many ways to eat for better health. Currently I am very pleased with LCHF at this point in time for my Way Of Eating because it works in my case."
Yes, this is nice. If all your posts were like this I wouldn't feel compelled to argue with you.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »I'll remain dubious of anyone claiming they eat x calories that does practice some sort of open logging.
This too.0
This discussion has been closed.
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