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Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction
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The very existence of this forum really irritates me. It seems like the General Diet & Weight-loss Help forum has been declared a "safe space" for pseudoscience, rumors, propaganda and anti-science by the mods specifically targeting science-based discussion and declaring it to be unwanted, something that should be hidden from sensitive souls or simply refrained from.
Now to address the thread topic:
DSM-V Eating Disorders. From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder): "Individuals who have binge eating disorder commonly have other comorbidities such as major depressive disorder, personality disorder, bipolar disorder, substance abuse, body dysmorphic disorder, kleptomania, irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, or an anxiety disorder"
The American Psychiatric Association recognizes several different kinds of destructive eating patterns. They also have a separate diagnosis for substance use and addictive disorders. Its entirely possible people claiming "addiction" actually suffer from an eating disorder that is a psychiatric problem. That doesn't mean their problem isn't real, but it does mean that they need appropriate help and mechanisms to overcome their problems.0 -
I remember one of my most vivid tantrums related to food as a child was about my mom telling me I had eaten too many cucumbers and if I kept eating more I was going to get sick. Didn't matter...I wanted more cukes!!!
Food is not physically or chemically addictive. We do not become dependent on it. I did many many many substance abuse evaluations of inmates in the local jail at my last job. I saw many people in withdrawal and who needed detox. Never and I mean never was it due to a food substance.
I'm fine with a debate, but one done with actual science and knowledge and not someone feelings.
You want knowledge??? I can tell you of many times I went to school hungry with no lunch! I can tell you many times when mum got paid and we came home to cupboards full of junk food only to be gone the next morning....I can also tell you about visiting my mum in hospital but not being able to understand why she was there? I don't even want to write the reason she was there it hurts.....I'm guessing you think mum was just selfish? Didn't care about her kids maybe? Just a bad mum maybe? She was sick eating made her feel better! My ex was/is also sick drinking and drugs makes him feel better.......the highs followed by the lows as described in the previous link......addiction!
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summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
You have supported the point of view of the people I think you oppose: if sugar addiction were real, you would see addictive behaviors. You would see kids (or adults) eating sugar straight out of the bag. Likewise, you'd see people eating salt straight out of the container, or Crisco by the spoonful. This just doesn't happen in the general population such that it can be called an addiction.0 -
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summerkissed wrote: »The alcohol, tobacco and gambling industries now all have to pay costs and have rules about advertising they have to contribute $$$ to prevention programs medical research.......hmmmm at what point do you think fast food giants, soft drink companies, cola cola and the likes should start becoming liable for the ingredients? the advertising? The massive burden on mental health and medical systems? The burden on family......Is it just me or is it a coincidence that the foods these addictions are stemming from are all processed and unregulated multi national giants with massive profits with a f$&king lot to lose??? These addictions aren't linked to wholesome foods close to natural now are they? I mean how many years did it take the tobacco industry to admit they had purposely added certain chemicals that were addictive?? Is there something being hidden from us? Why are even as we become more health conscious that these massive companies are moving to make the so called 'health' foods more processed with added sugar/salt preservatives? But make it look healthy? You only have to walk down the health food isle and read some of the nutrition panels to work that out.
You can hide under your rocks as long as you want but food/sugar addictions are real my oath they are real.....but there are a lot of people with lots of $$$ who have a vested interest in keeping this quiet for as long as they can!!
Fun fact, did you know the tobacco industry never claimed cigarettes don't cause cancer? They repeatedly said more research was needed, but never claimed cigarettes don't cause cancer. They ended up paying not because their product was addictive but because it causes cancer.
Gambling has restrictions because the state doesn't like competitors. Or does the state lottery stop being addictive because it pays a pittance to schools?
Alcohol has restrictions because it does can lead to impaired judgement.
Interestingly, honey is pretty similar to high fructose corn syrup - higher in fructose than most blends is my recollection. Yet humans haven't nearly killed themselves for it - well maybe my ancestors did as I react less to bee and wasp stings than mosquito bites, but I don't care for honey. It does seem to impaired judgement based on Winnie the Pooh's inability to ever get pants on though.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
You have supported the point of view of the people I think you oppose: if sugar addiction were real, you would see addictive behaviors. You would see kids (or adults) eating sugar straight out of the bag. Likewise, you'd see people eating salt straight out of the container, or Crisco by the spoonful. This just doesn't happen in the general population such that it can be called an addiction.
No I'm trying to open the discussion more into the food addiction side of things and the foods consumed by the truly addicted person! Which is why I put it as food/sugar addiction the addiction is real but as you say why don't people consume spoons of sugar?.....that's why I opened is it the things added with these sugars? Why are these sugars added in massive amounts? I'm gluten and lactose free I have been for many years before it was 'cool' why can I now buy gluten free health foods with more sugar in them than gluten containing? Why can I go to the takeaway shop and find lactose free chocolate milk with the masses of sugar? Why is there now lactose free yogurts with huge sugar content? Why are huge companies adding so much sugar to everything we eat but at the same time trying to make it look healthy?? Perhaps these are the questions we need to be asking? Why when there is behavioral problems in kids is this added sugar blamed? What is being hidden from us?0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have 5 children all react differently.....how many kids do you have? And do you notice any change in them?0 -
The very existence of this forum really irritates me. It seems like the General Diet & Weight-loss Help forum has been declared a "safe space" for pseudoscience, rumors, propaganda and anti-science by the mods specifically targeting science-based discussion and declaring it to be unwanted, something that should be hidden from sensitive souls or simply refrained from.
Now to address the thread topic:
DSM-V Eating Disorders. From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder): "Individuals who have binge eating disorder commonly have other comorbidities such as major depressive disorder, personality disorder, bipolar disorder, substance abuse, body dysmorphic disorder, kleptomania, irritable bowel syndrome, fibromyalgia, or an anxiety disorder"
The American Psychiatric Association recognizes several different kinds of destructive eating patterns. They also have a separate diagnosis for substance use and addictive disorders. Its entirely possible people claiming "addiction" actually suffer from an eating disorder that is a psychiatric problem. That doesn't mean their problem isn't real, but it does mean that they need appropriate help and mechanisms to overcome their problems.
Well said, on both the forum and the thread topic.
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Science changes, studies change, opinions change thank god we have people that challenge it all!
For some it's takes them live through it or to watch someone you love go through it before you question what you have believed before! Take the blinkers off, science has been disproven many many times before and will continue to be so!
A lot of 'proven' science has been deadly wrong and got this planet to the shocking state it's in today!
Next year when meanings and disorders and diseases all get updated again, if food gets added to the list of addictions does that mean it wasn't this year but is next year? Was gambling addictive 5 years ago because it wasn't listed?0 -
I have 2 kids and I used to have a step child - the ex step child having ADHD in particular lead me to research sugar and hyperactivity. It doesn't matter if I notice them behaving differently while I and they are both aware of what they're eating. The expectation that sugar will cause hyperactivity will color the perceptions of both observers and observed.summerkissed wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have 5 children all react differently.....how many kids do you have? And do you notice any change in them?
That is what has lead to several experiments that tested putting sugar in food without kids being able to detect that their food has more sugar than a control meal. Then, those same researchers that know which foods have sugar also abstain from rating the children's activity level - because they might be influenced - instead they have the parents who also don't know if the food is more sugar than a control mean rate the child's activity level. Repeatedly these experiments have seen that when the person rating the child's activity level and the child don't know if there is more or less sugar in a food, activity levels are normal. When the child, or particularly the parent is lead to believe the food has more sugar (even when it actually doesn't) the child's reported activity level is higher.0 -
I have 2 kids and I used to have a step child - the ex step child having ADHD in particular lead me to research sugar and hyperactivity. It doesn't matter if I notice them behaving differently while I and they are both aware of what they're eating. The expectation that sugar will cause hyperactivity will color the perceptions of both observers and observed.summerkissed wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have 5 children all react differently.....how many kids do you have? And do you notice any change in them?
That is what has lead to several experiments that tested putting sugar in food without kids being able to detect that their food has more sugar than a control meal. Then, those same researchers that know which foods have sugar also abstain from rating the children's activity level - because they might be influenced - instead they have the parents who also don't know if the food is more sugar than a control mean rate the child's activity level. Repeatedly these experiments have seen that when the person rating the child's activity level and the child don't know if there is more or less sugar in a food, activity levels are normal. When the child, or particularly the parent is lead to believe the food has more sugar (even when it actually doesn't) the child's reported activity level is higher.
I have ADD (inattentive) diet has little to no effect on ADHD/ADD I have never mentioned it does0 -
Funnily enough it's our eldest girl....the most level head of all our children that has issues with high sugar she gets a high then a bad mood low!! I can even tell when she has brought lollies at the canteen during school without being told! Our middle son who has big struggles with anxiety and confidence shows no reactions to any foods at all. Yet he would be the one that most would point fingers too! As I said every child is different0
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summerkissed wrote: »ClosetBayesian wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
You have supported the point of view of the people I think you oppose: if sugar addiction were real, you would see addictive behaviors. You would see kids (or adults) eating sugar straight out of the bag. Likewise, you'd see people eating salt straight out of the container, or Crisco by the spoonful. This just doesn't happen in the general population such that it can be called an addiction.
No I'm trying to open the discussion more into the food addiction side of things and the foods consumed by the truly addicted person! Which is why I put it as food/sugar addiction the addiction is real but as you say why don't people consume spoons of sugar?.....that's why I opened is it the things added with these sugars? Why are these sugars added in massive amounts? I'm gluten and lactose free I have been for many years before it was 'cool' why can I now buy gluten free health foods with more sugar in them than gluten containing? Why can I go to the takeaway shop and find lactose free chocolate milk with the masses of sugar? Why is there now lactose free yogurts with huge sugar content? Why are huge companies adding so much sugar to everything we eat but at the same time trying to make it look healthy?? Perhaps these are the questions we need to be asking? Why when there is behavioral problems in kids is this added sugar blamed? What is being hidden from us?
So teh additivez, not the sugar? Or Big Sugar? Companies adf sugar to stuff to make it taste good. That doesn't mean people are addicted to sugar (or additives), nor does it mean that companies are adding things to food to make them addictive. Candy makers ESP are trying to drill down on the right combination of sweet and salty to most appeal to the palate, but again, enjoying the taste of something (even something with added sugar to improve the flavor profile) does not make it an addiction.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »I remember one of my most vivid tantrums related to food as a child was about my mom telling me I had eaten too many cucumbers and if I kept eating more I was going to get sick. Didn't matter...I wanted more cukes!!!
Food is not physically or chemically addictive. We do not become dependent on it. I did many many many substance abuse evaluations of inmates in the local jail at my last job. I saw many people in withdrawal and who needed detox. Never and I mean never was it due to a food substance.
I'm fine with a debate, but one done with actual science and knowledge and not someone feelings.
You want knowledge??? I can tell you of many times I went to school hungry with no lunch! I can tell you many times when mum got paid and we came home to cupboards full of junk food only to be gone the next morning....I can also tell you about visiting my mum in hospital but not being able to understand why she was there? I don't even want to write the reason she was there it hurts.....I'm guessing you think mum was just selfish? Didn't care about her kids maybe? Just a bad mum maybe? She was sick eating made her feel better! My ex was/is also sick drinking and drugs makes him feel better.......the highs followed by the lows as described in the previous link......addiction!
I'm sorry for the abuse and neglect you experienced growing up. I hope you and your mom both can find peace and effective treatment. Sounds like a lot was going on in the home. Peace to you.
It still doesn't mean that pathology was addiction, but it sure was something that needed to be addressed and treated and it brings me sadness that it wasn't while you were a child.
I only just seen this, thank you for compassion.0 -
It drives me fricking coocoo when people pull the "food is addiction" line
Behavioural therapy for eating disorders <> therapy for drug / alcohol addiction
It ties in with the modern movement (eg last 2 decades) to victimisation and finding something external to blame. With an approach that asks people to "Disney-fy" the world rather than help.
These "it's not my fault", "it's out of my control", "it's a physical addiction" don't help people change
You know what I think helps people change, taking responsibility, committing, re-committing when you feck up and just stopping blaming society, big pharma, big food, your mother, your boyfriend, your dog and your genetics
i love everything about this post.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »Is it just me or is it a coincidence that the foods these addictions are stemming from are all processed and unregulated multi national giants with massive profits with a f$&king lot to lose??? These addictions aren't linked to wholesome foods close to natural now are they?
Wrong. If you look at the addiction rankings (and again even those pushing the idea admit it's not really the same as other kinds of addictions), the food that scores highest is pizza, and generally combinations of fat and salt or fat and sugar. These are all things that home cooks have known forever, which is likely why adding salt when cooking is expected, and sauteeing vegetables in butter or olive oil is common.
I don't like any big commercial pizza chain pizzas. I do like a few local Chicago-style options (including one that delivers, Lou Malnatis), but when I crave pizza (or am just in the mood for it), I go to a local Italian place and order one that is made the way I'd make it at home, if I had the right ovens and so on. Delicious and no more "processed" than any home-cooked meal. And the most "processed" pizzas -- the frozen ones -- are probably not so likely to score high on the addiction meter, because they aren't that good.
Similarly, I can't imagine anyone finding some storebought snack cake more craveable than grandma's homemade pie. Or even mine. It's just they are cheap, easy, and always around. But that doesn't mean you have to buy them.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets?
Poorly brought-up?
We had commercials for probably more sweet stuff back when I was a kid, and certainly for soda and fast food. We got fast food as a special treat, on rare occasion (and neither my sister nor I much likes it as an adult, although we did as kids), had snacks in sensible amounts (something small after school, a little something after dinner on occasion, if we'd eaten our meals, including the vegetables). We only had soda very rarely, mostly drank milk, juice with breakfast, and water, some koolaide in the summers. We NEVER made a fuss begging for food. Among other things, what was the point? It wouldn't have made a difference.
Ultimately I did make a fuss because I hated cold cereal, and my mother said fine, make breakfast yourself, with what's in the house. I started eating eggs or oatmeal (instant, nothing great). If I'd suggested that donuts or even toaster strudels would have been a good option, she would have laughed at the idea and said "nice try."0 -
summerkissed wrote: »I remember one of my most vivid tantrums related to food as a child was about my mom telling me I had eaten too many cucumbers and if I kept eating more I was going to get sick. Didn't matter...I wanted more cukes!!!
Food is not physically or chemically addictive. We do not become dependent on it. I did many many many substance abuse evaluations of inmates in the local jail at my last job. I saw many people in withdrawal and who needed detox. Never and I mean never was it due to a food substance.
I'm fine with a debate, but one done with actual science and knowledge and not someone feelings.
You want knowledge??? I can tell you of many times I went to school hungry with no lunch! I can tell you many times when mum got paid and we came home to cupboards full of junk food only to be gone the next morning....I can also tell you about visiting my mum in hospital but not being able to understand why she was there? I don't even want to write the reason she was there it hurts.....I'm guessing you think mum was just selfish? Didn't care about her kids maybe? Just a bad mum maybe? She was sick eating made her feel better! My ex was/is also sick drinking and drugs makes him feel better.......the highs followed by the lows as described in the previous link......addiction!
Again, I think most people have said that eating addiction can be real.
It's rare.
Most obese people do not behave as you have described, and the fact that one has difficulty regulating their consumption of certain specific foods they enjoy is not the same thing as addiction. One telling example (as well as the fact that they can have trouble with peanut M&Ms and not Snickers or ice cream or bananas) is that the same people would probably not dream of stealing food from their kids. That's one reason I think it's offensive and wrong to compare the kinds of food issues that are normally brought up in the main forum with drug or alcohol addiction. In the vast majority of these cases the "trigger foods" do NOT become the center of the person's life or preferred to such things as job or relationships. I think with some people it can, but again this is quite rare and not because of the food itself.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »Why are these sugars added in massive amounts?
It's a cheap way (due to HFCS) to make foods more palatable, especially when other ingredients are removed. It's also a response to consumer demand.
The main effect of these foods is that they are so easily available, not that they are harder to resist than much tastier homemade options (IMO).
Nothing is hidden -- if people choose not to read labels, that's on them (and has nothing to do with "addiction" anyway, as liking a food or eating it thinking it's lower cal than it is doesn't mean you are addicted).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I remember one of my most vivid tantrums related to food as a child was about my mom telling me I had eaten too many cucumbers and if I kept eating more I was going to get sick. Didn't matter...I wanted more cukes!!!
Food is not physically or chemically addictive. We do not become dependent on it. I did many many many substance abuse evaluations of inmates in the local jail at my last job. I saw many people in withdrawal and who needed detox. Never and I mean never was it due to a food substance.
I'm fine with a debate, but one done with actual science and knowledge and not someone feelings.
You want knowledge??? I can tell you of many times I went to school hungry with no lunch! I can tell you many times when mum got paid and we came home to cupboards full of junk food only to be gone the next morning....I can also tell you about visiting my mum in hospital but not being able to understand why she was there? I don't even want to write the reason she was there it hurts.....I'm guessing you think mum was just selfish? Didn't care about her kids maybe? Just a bad mum maybe? She was sick eating made her feel better! My ex was/is also sick drinking and drugs makes him feel better.......the highs followed by the lows as described in the previous link......addiction!
Again, I think most people have said that eating addiction can be real.
It's rare.
Most obese people do not behave as you have described, and the fact that one has difficulty regulating their consumption of certain specific foods they enjoy is not the same thing as addiction. One telling example (as well as the fact that they can have trouble with peanut M&Ms and not Snickers or ice cream or bananas) is that the same people would probably not dream of stealing food from their kids. That's one reason I think it's offensive and wrong to compare the kinds of food issues that are normally brought up in the main forum with drug or alcohol addiction. In the vast majority of these cases the "trigger foods" do NOT become the center of the person's life or preferred to such things as job or relationships. I think with some people it can, but again this is quite rare and not because of the food itself.
So much this. I have yet to see someone get fired for an out-of-control Snickers habit.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... kids get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta.
At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up. Yes, some of the exuberance in the child behavior came from being excited and stimulated by the other children and the occasion (party), but the behavior was also evident at quiet times at home. It was also more evident in some children than in others. For example, A would rarely get 'high acting' while C had to be monitored about how much he/she was allowed to ingest because they really went off the wall.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead, could some of it be from overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... they get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff ... be it candy or soda pop that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta. I know all carbs convert to glucose, but the kids never misbehave after eating a lot of that. At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead of overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.
That would seem to be a perfect example of the 'clouded perception' observations made that the above referenced studies support.
They ate sugar so you (probably unconsciously) expect them to get hyper, so your mind sees and remembers them being hyper. You (unconsciously) forget the times they eat high sugar items and don't get hyper and/or the times they're hyper when they don't eat sugar.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... they get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff ... be it candy or soda pop that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta. I know all carbs convert to glucose, but the kids never misbehave after eating a lot of that. At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead of overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.
It's an observation that doesn't line up with the science.
If parents are constantly telling their children they cannot have some candy because they'll be hyper, guess what happens when the kids get candy?
They get hyper. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.0 -
summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... they get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff ... be it candy or soda pop that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta. I know all carbs convert to glucose, but the kids never misbehave after eating a lot of that. At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead of overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.
Anecdotal accounts do not trump controlled scientific experiments.The very existence of this forum really irritates me. It seems like the General Diet & Weight-loss Help forum has been declared a "safe space" for pseudoscience, rumors, propaganda and anti-science by the mods specifically targeting science-based discussion and declaring it to be unwanted, something that should be hidden from sensitive souls or simply refrained from.
For all practical purposes, it has been.
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summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... they get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff ... be it candy or soda pop that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta. I know all carbs convert to glucose, but the kids never misbehave after eating a lot of that. At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead of overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.
I think the questions to be answered comes down to "is it the sugar, is it the situation, or is it the combination of the two?"
The answer appears to be it is purely situational. Parents generally allow kids the "good stuff" on special occasions where they are prone to be excitable anyway due to the situation - birthday parties, Christmas, that type of gig. In addition there is an expectation or tacit social permission for kids acting out (in reality being true to their nature without heavy handed socialisation being enforced on them) in that kind of scenario. Kids then act according to type. Parents put it down to the "sugar rush".0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »it is MFP taking a clear position where logic lost to feels.
To be fair to my MFP this direction is being taken all over social media from Facebook to Twitter to Instagram.
Hurt feelings trump facts. It is decidedly anti-intellectual, it can be profoundly harmful especially in an area so vitally dependent on good science to provide informed views, but it is the agreed consensus view.
0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »it is MFP taking a clear position where logic lost to feels.
To be fair to my MFP this direction is being taken all over social media from Facebook to Twitter to Instagram.
Hurt feelings trump facts. It is decidedly anti-intellectual, it can be profoundly harmful especially in an area so vitally dependent on good science to provide informed views, but it is the agreed consensus view.
Just because others are wrong does not mean MFP must emulate them. It is a choice. It's almost as though we are experiencing the whimper T.S. Elliot wrote about.
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summerkissed wrote: »A good example of this is kids, young kids with no knowledge of nutrition....why do we have kids throwing tantrums for junk foods, sodas, sweets? Why do kids have hyper outbursts over these foods....then massive downers??? Why do we have behavioral problems linked to additives in these foods?? We don't have these issues with fruit and veg or lean meats?? You argue over is food/sugar addiction real and one of the arguments is its not a chemical addiction but could it actually be just that....could it?? Could it not be a physical addiction could it be a chemical addiction?? The more I think about what we missed out on as kids the more I look deeper into the types of foods consumed the types of food brought? It wasn't a healthy diet at all? What was it about the highly processed, the high sugar, high salt and high fat combined with colors and flavors?
Kids get excited about certain foods. It is purely psychological. Repeated studies that were properly double blind have never found sugar added to foods lead to signs of hyperactivity in children.
I have to take exception with your statement here ... as a parent, aunt, grandparent, great grandaunt, friend of childrens parents ... from countless observations of child behavior .... they get hyper active to the point of (at one time) having to be scolded by their parents to 'simmer down' when they eat a lot of sweet stuff ... be it candy or soda pop that they never exhibit when they eat tons of other carb, like mashed potatoes or pasta. I know all carbs convert to glucose, but the kids never misbehave after eating a lot of that. At any get together, you'd hear one parent or another comment about the unruly child ... 'What do you expect, he (she) is haveing a 'sugar high' and will calm down in a bit" ... when several small kids were together and they got that rambunctious behavior after ingesting candy, cake and ice cream at parties someone would end up in tears, and then the kids would crash and sleep and be very moody when they woke up.
Now-a-days it seems that 'gone wild' kids behavior is blamed on ADHD instead of overeating on sweets. ... just my observation ... so please don't jump down my throat over it.
I think the questions to be answered comes down to "is it the sugar, is it the situation, or is it the combination of the two?"
The answer appears to be it is purely situational. Parents generally allow kids the "good stuff" on special occasions where they are prone to be excitable anyway due to the situation - birthday parties, Christmas, that type of gig. In addition there is an expectation or tacit social permission for kids acting out (in reality being true to their nature without heavy handed socialisation being enforced on them) in that kind of scenario. Kids then act according to type. Parents put it down to the "sugar rush".
This is exactly what I was going to say. Are my kids more out of control at birthday parties and then they "crash" afterwards? Absolutely. Is it because of the sugar, or because they are surrounded by all their friends being encouraged to run around like lunatics, bouncing on huge inflatables, drink pop, eat pizza and cake, watch a friend open 20 toys prompting insane fits of jealousy, then send them home with their parents to manage the aftermath...
I never once thought that their excitement and subsequent hitting of the wall was related to the dixie cup of soda and the single cupcake they ate. They eat sugar on a regular basis - they pretty much live on fruit and milk, and we have a piece of candy or a small cookie or a bag of mini muffins in the evenings as well. They don't suddenly start running around screaming like lunatics literally bouncing off the walls because of that... why would I think that the sugar is what prompted the out of control nature at the party? It's the environment, not a physical substance...0
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