Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction

auddii

missblondi2u wrote: »

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auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

And explaining those differences as a way to deal with the issue should be allowed.


Edited for clarity: my recommendations for someone with BED are going to be completely different than someone who really likes girl scout cookies.

LINIA

Not that this is the most relevant point to make, and also it's not that i've done my own research.....yes, i read a lot but i'm not a person who is offended by these opposing viewpoints.

We have been quite civil even though we disagree on how the Population arrived at this point.
For one thing, the words "FAT" & "GREEDY" have been abolished...i am older but i can remember when people were ashamed to be either one of those words....truly ashamed. You'd never see anyone eat an entire bag of cookies, it wasn't done.
In the Upper Grades and at University, it was rare to see an obese person....rare.

So that is one reason i think a lot of the blame isn't personal responsibility.....and this is even though i've never myself, even at 9 months pregnant, been overweight.

jofjltncb6

missblondi2u wrote: »

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auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

This argument seems more appropriately leveled at the sensitive souls in genpop whose feelz resulted in this current thread in the MFP basement.

jofjltncb6

missblondi2u wrote: »

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stevencloser wrote: »

I don't think someone starts binging on January 1st and only stops eating everything in their path December 31st.

And large enough, as said. Without a doubt recognizable as a lot more than would be normal eating patterns in that person's situation. The p-value addition was from me for you to make it clear what I mean with big enough to not be just randomly from extra hunger.
To put it in example numbers, your maintenance calories are 2000, your average meal has 600 calories but suddenly you eat 2000 extra just after lunch because you can't stop. Stuff like that. Without a doubt, definitely larger than you should or would normally eat. But as Senecarr said, it depends on context, someone in a eating contest will obviously eat much more than he would normally eat.

And yeah, I have a bit of a problem with people throwing around words that are actual medical conditions to describe them eating a few cookies too many. Especially when everything they say is like they actually think they have that medical condition because of it, as has been evidenced aplenty already.

And I just don't think that saying you binged is throwing around a medical condition. If you said "I ate 10 oreos, I must have a binge eating disorder" I agree that a distinction should be made.

The whole point of this thread, I thought, was that words and definitions are important. And my point was that words, like binge, can have different meanings to different people.

But you guys are right, this has become a bit of a tangent (although still, I think, within the overall topic of semantics).

Not a tangent at all. In fact, we're finally at the heart of the issue.

Words have different meanings. Certain definitions are allowed, welcomed, lauded, praised, etc and certain are demonized, separated from the others, and punished.

So instead of asking for clarification of someone's definition of a word, we're instead to accept that it could mean anything to them individually...which means no meaningful dialogue can happen.

You got this! I believe in you! You can do it! :flowerforyou:

missblondi2u

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

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missblondi2u wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

This argument seems more appropriately leveled at the sensitive souls in genpop whose feelz resulted in this current thread in the MFP basement.

I wasn't trying to level an argument against anyone. I agree that what I said should apply both ways.

jofjltncb6

missblondi2u wrote: »

show previous quotes

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

This argument seems more appropriately leveled at the sensitive souls in genpop whose feelz resulted in this current thread in the MFP basement.

I wasn't trying to level an argument against anyone. I agree that what I said should apply both ways.

Agreed.

(Extra credit: Make that argument in genpop threads/somewhere other than this special basement of MFP and see what kind of reception it gets. You'll quickly understand the "feelz" of the supposedly anti-feelz crowd.)

Nikion901

This thread has become a source of entertainment, and I rush to it every day .... it's better than a boxing match on TV.
... oh my gosh, do you think I'm becoming addicted to it?

jofjltncb6

Nikion901 wrote: »

This thread has become a source of entertainment, and I rush to it every day .... it's better than a boxing match on TV.
... oh my gosh, do you think I'm becoming addicted to it?

Based on what I've learned in this thread, I'm in no position to agree or disagree. It all depends on your definition of the word.

You got this! I believe in you! :flowerforyou:

lemurcat12

LINIA wrote: »

Not that this is the most relevant point to make, and also it's not that i've done my own research.....yes, i read a lot but i'm not a person who is offended by these opposing viewpoints.

We have been quite civil even though we disagree on how the Population arrived at this point.
For one thing, the words "FAT" & "GREEDY" have been abolished...i am older but i can remember when people were ashamed to be either one of those words....truly ashamed. You'd never see anyone eat an entire bag of cookies, it wasn't done.
In the Upper Grades and at University, it was rare to see an obese person....rare.

So that is one reason i think a lot of the blame isn't personal responsibility.....and this is even though i've never myself, even at 9 months pregnant, been overweight.

I'm not following.

There can be social factors that play into why the population as a whole is fatter than it used to be. I don't think that we, as a society, are lazier or more gluttonous than we used to be, no. But that doesn't mean that the reason for being overweight on an individual level are other than personal responsibility. You live in an environment and make choices within it.

There are obvious reasons obesity is more prevalent: activity is less required in everyday life and in some places there are barriers to it. Food is super cheap and available, including high cal foods. Social strictures against overeating are much less, and the idea that we should not eat between meals is gone. The social strictures that defined eating as recently as my childhood (the '80s) seem to be gone -- it's no longer so normal that you eat a home-cooked meal with protein and vegetables or that eating out (or soda) is a treat, not an every day thing. Stuff like that.

None of that is the fault or responsibility of the food industry. And a lot of the social aspects vary from subculture to subculture. My friends who have children have similar rules re food as those I grew up with (soda is an occasional treat, fast food/pizza an occasional thing, vegetables are to be eaten, active play is encouraged, etc.).

(This is really a separate debate topic and not about semantics or addiction, IMO.)

tomteboda

senecarr wrote: »

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tomteboda wrote: »

It needs to be pointed out that 2+2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

See, I tried to put caveats to prevent that response, but I still got it.

Your disclaimers were just too tempting

missblondi2u

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

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missblondi2u wrote: »

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

This argument seems more appropriately leveled at the sensitive souls in genpop whose feelz resulted in this current thread in the MFP basement.

I wasn't trying to level an argument against anyone. I agree that what I said should apply both ways.

Agreed.

(Extra credit: Make that argument in genpop threads/somewhere other than this special basement of MFP and see what kind of reception it gets. You'll quickly understand the "feelz" of the supposedly anti-feelz crowd.)

See, that's why I'm posting here, because I enjoy good, solid debating with people who don't resort to hyperbolic emotions.

tomteboda

@rabbitjb is right about how people rationalize things.

I'm off the opinion that allowing absolutely inaccurate and false narratives to be conventional wisdom, and refraining from challenging them based on assumptions of emotional fragility, does no favors to anyone.

People with the false narratives are robed of power over their lives by them. Other readers are encouraged to embrace those false narratives. And those with the knowledge and courage to confront those narratives are silenced, creating an atmosphere of intimidation. It's a very superficial kind of peace in discourse purchased at great expense.

And that's why it really isn't semantics, but something very germane. There is a whole food of misinformation inundation people regularly. Confronting that is like throwing out life vests.

100df

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

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missblondi2u wrote: »

jofjltncb6 wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

auddii wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

A. Recurrent episodes of binge eating. An episode of binge eating is characterized by both of the following:

Eating, in a discrete period of time (e.g., within any 2-hour period), an amount of food that is definitely larger than what most people would eat in a similar period of time under similar circumstances.
A sense of lack of control over eating during the episode (e.g., a feeling that one cannot stop eating or control what or how much one is eating).

So there are several "wiggle" words here: A "discrete period of time" is subjective, even though they give an example. The terms "larger than what most people eat" is vague since they don't say how much larger it has to be (500 calories, 5000 calories?). Also the description of "under similar circumstances" is completely arbitrary. Are we talking similar height/weight stats, similar environmental stimuli, similar levels of hunger. So no, this definition give no absolute criteria to determine what rises to the binge level. That's my point.

Discrete period of time just means it starts at some point and is over at another.
It says "definitely" larger so a large enough difference to not just be explained by being extra hungry. A p-value of <0.05 if it were a study, so to say.
And similar circumstances would be a person of equal build, with the same sort of daily routines. Someone doing IF is not going to have similar meals to someone eating 5 meals a day. A 5 foot sedentary girl isn't going to have similar meals as a 6 foot athlete.
It's not really all that vague.

So a discrete period of time could be an hour, a day, or a year? And again, what is "large enough"? The phrase "not explained by being extra hungry" is your addition, and not in the definition you cited. Plus, there was no reference to p-value in the definition, and can you really expect everyone posting to even know what a p-value is? See, none of this is clear, which is why you cannot legitimately say that a person shouldn't use the term binge to mean a simple overeating episode. It fits the dictionary definition of binge, and appears to even fit the medical definition you cited. All I am saying is that this seems like a word police instance, where some people have a certain connotation (binge=binge eating disorder) whereas others have another, no less valid, meaning.

So they can have feels because they coined a term to mean something it's not, but I can't have feels because them doing so makes me feel like the are belittling my actual issues?

Ok.

I did not say people couldn't have feelz. I was making a connection to the fact that a lot of people here are mad that they are being shunted to this section because they are saying things that people don't like because of feelz. To me at least, I saw a connection. We can either get upset about how people use words, or we can accept that different people use words differently.

This argument seems more appropriately leveled at the sensitive souls in genpop whose feelz resulted in this current thread in the MFP basement.

I wasn't trying to level an argument against anyone. I agree that what I said should apply both ways.

Agreed.

(Extra credit: Make that argument in genpop threads/somewhere other than this special basement of MFP and see what kind of reception it gets. You'll quickly understand the "feelz" of the supposedly anti-feelz crowd.)

I think there is plenty of room for the feelz and anti-feelz crowd.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

senecarr

tincanonastring wrote: »

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missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

singingflutelady wrote: »

Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.

As someone with a history of binges, I cringe when I see "binge" used that way. I understand the events being described are usually upsetting to the posters who are writing, so I try to be mindful of their experience and not project my past on to them, but really -- seeing it used to describe eating an box of crackers or some pizza . . . no.

Ok, so I'm confused. I haven't read further to see if it's already been addressed, but the actual definition of binge is "a short period devoted to indulging in an activity to excess, especially drinking alcohol or eating." To me, this includes the occasional overindulgence.

I can see how people with an eating disorder may put another connotation to the term, but why is it not ok to use the dictionary definition of a word, and how the heck is someone supposed to know that connotation if they don't have that experience? To me, this is putting a particular person's feelings (in this case, feelings related to eating disorders) over facts (like what an actual word is defined).

I can understand your point of view.

To me, "binge" has a specific meaning, as a manifestation of BED. Do my feelings have priority over how the word is commonly used? Nope. But that doesn't mean I don't have feelings on the matter.

Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that people using the term probably aren't trying to be insensitive. They just have a different, and no less valid, meaning of the word.

I never thought anyone was *trying* to be insensitive.

Maybe I misinterpreted, but what I read were several people who said they cringed every time someone used the word binge in a way that didn't fit the medical definition of a binge eating disorder because of their personal experience or feelings about eating disorders (you know, the touchy-feely stuff you guys hate so much). I was trying to make the point that people should consider that the word has different, perfectly acceptable meanings and maybe should try not to take it so personally when people use the word in a different way.

I think it comes down to the setting in which the terms are being used. If I'm in a bar with a bunch of people whose fitness/diet routines I know nothing about, I probably wouldn't have any issue if my buddy told me how binged on huge cheesesteak the night before. Here, on a site with so many people in ED recovery, I do try to be sensitive of how "binge" is used.

Personally, I've used the term in the past to describe any episode of overeating. After lurking MFP, I learned that some of my overeating absolutely falls into the binging category and how to tell the difference between those times and the times I just ate a little too much for dessert. I should not be consuming 4500 calories between work and home on a random Wednesday night. Similarly, I shouldn't be exceeding my calorie goal by 300 calories because I had 2 extra scoops of ice cream. To me, now, I would only describe one of those things as a binge.

I think there's also an irony in that a lot of the people on here accused of no feelz are earnest in their recommendation of therapy for people that truly feel out of control with some issues, but it is the OP's and other pro-feels crowd that think recommending therapy is some kind of negative recommendation.
Imagine, a lot of people who are scientific and evidence based believe there's efficacy in improving mental health by talking to a professional? Odd isn't it?

senecarr

LINIA wrote: »

Not that this is the most relevant point to make, and also it's not that i've done my own research.....yes, i read a lot but i'm not a person who is offended by these opposing viewpoints.

We have been quite civil even though we disagree on how the Population arrived at this point.
For one thing, the words "FAT" & "GREEDY" have been abolished...i am older but i can remember when people were ashamed to be either one of those words....truly ashamed. You'd never see anyone eat an entire bag of cookies, it wasn't done.
In the Upper Grades and at University, it was rare to see an obese person....rare.

So that is one reason i think a lot of the blame isn't personal responsibility.....and this is even though i've never myself, even at 9 months pregnant, been overweight.

For a functioning adult, no one has responsibility for that person's weight but themselves. It doesn't mean some things in society or in their situation makes it harder or easier to affect a change in weight. I also think viewing the situation as one of blame isn't productive at all. It is a changeable health condition and as a health condition, it has potential consequences, but blame implies a person's weight is doing something to other people.

lemurcat12

HappyCampr1 wrote: »

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senecarr wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

singingflutelady wrote: »

Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.

As someone with a history of binges, I cringe when I see "binge" used that way. I understand the events being described are usually upsetting to the posters who are writing, so I try to be mindful of their experience and not project my past on to them, but really -- seeing it used to describe eating an box of crackers or some pizza . . . no.

Ok, so I'm confused. I haven't read further to see if it's already been addressed, but the actual definition of binge is "a short period devoted to indulging in an activity to excess, especially drinking alcohol or eating." To me, this includes the occasional overindulgence.

I can see how people with an eating disorder may put another connotation to the term, but why is it not ok to use the dictionary definition of a word, and how the heck is someone supposed to know that connotation if they don't have that experience? To me, this is putting a particular person's feelings (in this case, feelings related to eating disorders) over facts (like what an actual word is defined).

I can understand your point of view.

To me, "binge" has a specific meaning, as a manifestation of BED. Do my feelings have priority over how the word is commonly used? Nope. But that doesn't mean I don't have feelings on the matter.

Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that people using the term probably aren't trying to be insensitive. They just have a different, and no less valid, meaning of the word.

I never thought anyone was *trying* to be insensitive.

Maybe I misinterpreted, but what I read were several people who said they cringed every time someone used the word binge in a way that didn't fit the medical definition of a binge eating disorder because of their personal experience or feelings about eating disorders (you know, the touchy-feely stuff you guys hate so much). I was trying to make the point that people should consider that the word has different, perfectly acceptable meanings and maybe should try not to take it so personally when people use the word in a different way.

Misperception. A desire for truth over comforting lies and evidence based reasoning doesn't mean you're against feeling.
Someone wants to post "dieting is hard, sometimes I feel so out of control with it," my response is sure, it is, I'm sorry you're having a hard time and perhaps tell them to consider x,y,z for their particular situation. Someone posts "I'm a sugar addict, I'm out of control," and my response is no, you're not an addict, a healthy relationship with food is hard, so denying you can be in control is only making that out of control feeling worse, consider x,y,z to help.

Genuine question here... In your second scenario where someone posts "I'm a sugar addict. I'm out of control", could the response not be - No, you're not addicted to sugar. Sugar itself isn't an addictive substance, but you may well be addicted to the act of eating sugar. A healthy relationship with food is hard, so denying you can be in control is only making that out of control feeling worse. Consider x,y,z to help.

Acknowledging that they may very well have an eating addiction, which is a behavioral issue as opposed to a sugar addiction (which doesn't happen), puts them on the path towards recognizing that this is something they can control. But, it doesn't invalidate the idea that they feel addicted.

An eating addiction wouldn't be sugar-focused, I don't think, and people who claim to have a sugar addiction usually don't really mean sugar, they mean they tend to overeat certain specific sweet foods they happen to enjoy.

My instinct is that what will work for many is focusing on the context of when they feel out of control. What's going on when they overeat?

senecarr

HappyCampr1 wrote: »

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senecarr wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

missblondi2u wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

singingflutelady wrote: »

Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.

As someone with a history of binges, I cringe when I see "binge" used that way. I understand the events being described are usually upsetting to the posters who are writing, so I try to be mindful of their experience and not project my past on to them, but really -- seeing it used to describe eating an box of crackers or some pizza . . . no.

Ok, so I'm confused. I haven't read further to see if it's already been addressed, but the actual definition of binge is "a short period devoted to indulging in an activity to excess, especially drinking alcohol or eating." To me, this includes the occasional overindulgence.

I can see how people with an eating disorder may put another connotation to the term, but why is it not ok to use the dictionary definition of a word, and how the heck is someone supposed to know that connotation if they don't have that experience? To me, this is putting a particular person's feelings (in this case, feelings related to eating disorders) over facts (like what an actual word is defined).

I can understand your point of view.

To me, "binge" has a specific meaning, as a manifestation of BED. Do my feelings have priority over how the word is commonly used? Nope. But that doesn't mean I don't have feelings on the matter.

Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that people using the term probably aren't trying to be insensitive. They just have a different, and no less valid, meaning of the word.

I never thought anyone was *trying* to be insensitive.

Maybe I misinterpreted, but what I read were several people who said they cringed every time someone used the word binge in a way that didn't fit the medical definition of a binge eating disorder because of their personal experience or feelings about eating disorders (you know, the touchy-feely stuff you guys hate so much). I was trying to make the point that people should consider that the word has different, perfectly acceptable meanings and maybe should try not to take it so personally when people use the word in a different way.

Misperception. A desire for truth over comforting lies and evidence based reasoning doesn't mean you're against feeling.
Someone wants to post "dieting is hard, sometimes I feel so out of control with it," my response is sure, it is, I'm sorry you're having a hard time and perhaps tell them to consider x,y,z for their particular situation. Someone posts "I'm a sugar addict, I'm out of control," and my response is no, you're not an addict, a healthy relationship with food is hard, so denying you can be in control is only making that out of control feeling worse, consider x,y,z to help.

Genuine question here... In your second scenario where someone posts "I'm a sugar addict. I'm out of control", could the response not be - No, you're not addicted to sugar. Sugar itself isn't an addictive substance, but you may well be addicted to the act of eating sugar. A healthy relationship with food is hard, so denying you can be in control is only making that out of control feeling worse. Consider x,y,z to help.

Acknowledging that they may very well have an eating addiction, which is a behavioral issue as opposed to a sugar addiction (which doesn't happen), puts them on the path towards recognizing that this is something they can control. But, it doesn't invalidate the idea that they feel addicted.

Eating addiction is being discussed as a possible diagnoses. The criteria for it would not apply to most people, and no would be self diagnosing with it.
That's one of the real problems of people diluting and using medical terms in everyday - it leads people to think that their feeling of something is the same as a medical diagnosis. Imagine if people did this with physical ailments like they do mental - "well, I'm tired more than unusual, I guess I'm just feeling a bit cancerous", or "I get tired after loading up on carbs, guess I'm feeling a bit diabetic." If someone's issues with food are at the level that they would honestly have an eating addiction, MFP isn't the solution, medical and psychological professionals are.

Olivia

Hey Folks - I have closed this discussion as it keeps coming back to the MFP position on addiction (which we don't have one) and our process for moderating this category. People are welcome to create a new discussion on the nature of sugar addiction but discussions about moderation or MFP or moderators need to be sent to staff or moderators in private messages.