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Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction
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Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."
for some people they will absolutely fail. no different to the op who feels that they have done EVERYTHING possible to lose weight and nothing will work for them and they give up. Hoping that more will later see the light and take control, whether or not they come back to the post to admit that. Not everyone gets cured at the first post
No, but you seem under the impression that trying is free. I don't see that as psychologically true. Every time a person's belief that they cannot lose weight is reinforced by another failure is an increase that they'll give and never try to diet again. The more times a person has done everything that doesn't work, the more they'll assume nothing works rather than that they simply haven't tried what does.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."
for some people they will absolutely fail. no different to the op who feels that they have done EVERYTHING possible to lose weight and nothing will work for them and they give up. Hoping that more will later see the light and take control, whether or not they come back to the post to admit that. Not everyone gets cured at the first post
No, but you seem under the impression that trying is free. I don't see that as psychologically true. Every time a person's belief that they cannot lose weight is reinforced by another failure is an increase that they'll give and never try to diet again. The more times a person has done everything that doesn't work, the more they'll assume nothing works rather than that they simply haven't tried what does.
So much truth here.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »why did the other sugar addiction thread just go?
Shhhhh....
0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."Therealobi1 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...BecomingBane wrote: »How do we strike that balance when the more vocal opposition seems to be shouting down evidence based answers in favor of their anecdotal situations?
Why should it be the duty of one set of posters to strike a balance when another set of posters are not doing so? That is not equality of treatment but rather one group holding a privileged status.
If there is a groups of posters vocally seeking to elevate faith based claims above evidence based claims then the other group should be allowed to tell them openly they are talking nonsense.
Some of you people are way too nice...
but how has that worked so far? when someone at the time really believes they are addicted at that time they truly believe they are addicted. to me this is no different from someone who believes they are logging accurately and doing everything they can to lose weight and cant see why they are not.
Well touchy feely support hasn't worked
It will continual to fail and reinforce failure
And there will continue to be "board legislation" against the kind of help that finally made me successful after decades of failure ....straightforward in your face you're wrong on that ....so I continue to put on my twisted, convoluted hat on and try to effect change anyway, despite the required modus operandi rather than because of it ..but I do it less and less...cos semantic twisting hurts my head
not really talking about touchy feely cos that just isnt mfp
its more just laying the facts which is usually done, and not the comments that make the Op feel like a moron.
i dont believe in sugar addiction its just selective overeating, and with most things in time alot of these Ops will see thats all it is and to take control
See, I see that as the least humane way of handling it. Letting people persist in ignorance and letting them hit their head against failure until they accept it seems the cruelest way to handle things, but for some reason, that seems to be what MFP is endorsing as positivity. I find it positively guaranteed to negate success. In fact, I worry sometimes that by letting these people fail, there is a chance it will become a person's last attempt to lose weight - "well I tried the sugar addiction treatment and even that didn't work, so I guess I just have to accept I'll die a sugar addict sometime after my fifth bypass and second limb amputation, because there is no beating this, it is an addiction."
for some people they will absolutely fail. no different to the op who feels that they have done EVERYTHING possible to lose weight and nothing will work for them and they give up. Hoping that more will later see the light and take control, whether or not they come back to the post to admit that. Not everyone gets cured at the first post
No, but you seem under the impression that trying is free. I don't see that as psychologically true. Every time a person's belief that they cannot lose weight is reinforced by another failure is an increase that they'll give and never try to diet again. The more times a person has done everything that doesn't work, the more they'll assume nothing works rather than that they simply haven't tried what does.
and then there are those who will slap themselves awake and roll up their sleeves
loads of people will give up and never lose weight thats just the way it is
you have to be mentally ready to make the change, and when you are you will stop clinging onto the latest cleanse or fad or term0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If providing help to the OP is part of the criteria, than shouldn't all replies that say sugar addiction is real end up here, 100% of the time, as lying to someone and reinforcing false information is never going to be helpful?
Instead it seems like the burden is inverted. The assumption is that people saying sugar addiction isn't a thing are automatically assumed unproductive and moved here.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
Funny, i never see threads that would ask if you feel their sugar addiction is real. I see people asking for help to make better choices and get passed said addiction.0 -
Nm0
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tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
Funny, i never see threads that would ask if you feel their sugar addiction is real. I see people asking for help to make better choices and get passed said addiction.
Funny that you've skipped right past my question about how many posts from sugar-addiction advocates have been moved.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready
Does that mean people should stop telling her?0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
Funny, i never see threads that would ask if you feel their sugar addiction is real. I see people asking for help to make better choices and get passed said addiction.
I see threads where people flat out state they are addicted to sugar .. a fallacy upon which they base their position.
Funny, I don't see the questions asked of MFP getting answered here. You just side stepped this question and the question of why posts countering sugar addiction get moved/deleted while those claiming it are permitted still goes unanswered.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready
Does that mean people should stop telling her?
yes, she has a couple of pages of you are eating too much in different forms, she is off to the doctor, when the doctor gives her the all clear she will come back and read the post clearly0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If providing help to the OP is part of the criteria, than shouldn't all replies that say sugar addiction is real end up here, 100% of the time, as lying to someone and reinforcing false information is never going to be helpful?
Instead it seems like the burden is inverted. The assumption is that people saying sugar addiction isn't a thing are automatically assumed unproductive and moved here.
Helping the OP doesnt mean lying to them. I dont know why this concept is so hard but helping people is more than correcting bad information... its provide the next step...
Essentially, so you told them physical addiction doesnt exit... great. .. how do apply that to their situation?0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready
Does that mean people should stop telling her?
yes, she has a couple of pages of you are eating too much in different forms, she is off to the doctor, when the doctor gives her the all clear she will come back and read the post clearly
Wait, is your position actually that no one should be told the truth if they are not ready to hear it?0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
Funny, i never see threads that would ask if you feel their sugar addiction is real. I see people asking for help to make better choices and get passed said addiction.
I see threads where people flat out state they are addicted to sugar .. a fallacy upon which they base their position.
Funny, I don't see the questions asked of MFP getting answered here. You just side stepped this question and the question of why posts countering sugar addiction get moved/deleted while those claiming it are permitted still goes unanswered.
I only explain things so many times. If people dont want to understand, that is on them.0 -
I thought that addicts pimped their kids for crack. Do you have your kids turning tricks so you can have brownies? No? What's your point in watering down a perfectly functional word? Not only do word have no meaning when they lose their value, we can no longer communicate.
I have loved ones that are addicts, ruined their jobs, lives, and marriages from their substances abuse, had to take antibuse so they wouldn't drink, and went into delirium tremors. Are you experiencing that?
No? That what conduct are you attempting to excuse?brianpperkins wrote: »The introduction to the Nutrition Debate subforum is frightening if one believes in presenting fact to counter those who mangle the language in order to excuse their actions. The reference to the guidelines is that thinly veiled threat of impending warnings for countering the common claim of "sugar addiction". Feelings and beliefs now trump logic and science.
When words have no meaning they lose their value.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »"your body becomes addicted to the sugar and doesn't recognize the other stuff as food" ... a post allowed to stand.
MFP is clearly taking a position that countering fallacy based positions is not acceptable while endorsing them is.
That quote is from a thread out there. The op never said anything about sugar addiction and a so called "fitness professional" came in and claimed "your body becomes addicted to the sugar and doesn't recognize the other stuff as food". How come this type of post is allowed out there? They aren't helping the op.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
Funny, i never see threads that would ask if you feel their sugar addiction is real. I see people asking for help to make better choices and get passed said addiction.
I see threads where people flat out state they are addicted to sugar .. a fallacy upon which they base their position.
Funny, I don't see the questions asked of MFP getting answered here. You just side stepped this question and the question of why posts countering sugar addiction get moved/deleted while those claiming it are permitted still goes unanswered.
I only explain things so many times. If people dont want to understand, that is on them.
Can you do me a favor and explain the 1 thing I've asked of you in this thread?0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready
Does that mean people should stop telling her?
yes, she has a couple of pages of you are eating too much in different forms, she is off to the doctor, when the doctor gives her the all clear she will come back and read the post clearly
Wait, is your position actually that no one should be told the truth if they are not ready to hear it?
nope not at all
she has been told pages of you are eating too much
how many more pages does she need esp if not listening and getting upset?0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If a person bases a position based on misinformation then how is not not helpful to correct that misinformation so the person can then reassess their position?
It depends. Did you protect the feelz while correcting the misinformation?
but i often wondered if the feelz of those trying to help our hurt too
not everyone will accept the great help given right away or even ever.
so therefore its annoying why the OP asked for help in the first place
i just read a post about an OP who is doing everything but gaining weight
so rightly everyone tells op you are eating more than you think
op is more convinced that its an illness, and seems to name a different illness it could be at every other post
op is getting flustered that she is being told she is eating too much doesnt want any more comments
that op is not ready
Does that mean people should stop telling her?
yes, she has a couple of pages of you are eating too much in different forms, she is off to the doctor, when the doctor gives her the all clear she will come back and read the post clearly
Wait, is your position actually that no one should be told the truth if they are not ready to hear it?
nope not at all
she has been told pages of you are eating too much
how many more pages does she need esp if not listening and getting upset?
If she is continuing to engage, then she's going to get honest answers. The truth will stop when she stops posting.0
This discussion has been closed.
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