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Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction
Replies
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tincanonastring wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »Make MFP great again!
I feel like this should be a first post from a SparkPeople user.
Them fightin' words, son.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »Make MFP great again!
I feel like this should be a first post from a SparkPeople user.
SparkPeople is how I ended up here. I stalled in my weight loss for a couple of months and got one stinkin' answer on their boards that was devoid of advice. Came looking for better boards and found MFP. Sad to see the forums headed the other direction again.0 -
ManiacalLaugh wrote: »Came here to argue about useful v. useless replies to those misinformed about food "addiction". Found that my opinion has already been stated more eloquently than what I could've done and agreed to by the majority.
Sort of disappointed... I was feeling snippy this afternoon.
You aren't dissapointed at all and you know it - since you might have been looking for an argument.
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ManiacalLaugh wrote: »Came here to argue about useful v. useless replies to those misinformed about food "addiction". Found that my opinion has already been stated more eloquently than what I could've done and agreed to by the majority.
Sort of disappointed... I was feeling snippy this afternoon.
You aren't dissapointed at all and you know it - since you might have been looking for an argument.
Okay, laugh if you want, but the image is entirely accurate for what I was gearing up for. X)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
Again, as a participant in those threads who tries to correct misinformation but spends much more of my time and energy giving ideas of how to deal with the problem and my own history and what worked for me, I know that this is not true. I am one of those people, and it is absolutely NOT all that I do, or many, many other posters I see posting in those forums.
It isn't true for you and some others. That concept cannot be applied to all. And unfortunately, those of us who do put in the effort, get penalized for the many who do not.0 -
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This thread is rapidly becoming an MC Escher depiction of one of Dante's circles of hell0
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »
I'm right behind you, or .... ahead of you...0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »
I'm right behind you, or .... ahead of you...
Hurry up!
<or>
Wait up!
Whichever the case may be.0 -
What happened to the other sugar addiction thread??? Or am I not allowed to ask?0
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ClosetBayesian wrote: »What happened to the other sugar addiction thread??? Or am I not allowed to ask?
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Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If providing help to the OP is part of the criteria, than shouldn't all replies that say sugar addiction is real end up here, 100% of the time, as lying to someone and reinforcing false information is never going to be helpful?
Instead it seems like the burden is inverted. The assumption is that people saying sugar addiction isn't a thing are automatically assumed unproductive and moved here.
Helping the OP doesnt mean lying to them. I dont know why this concept is so hard but helping people is more than correcting bad information... its provide the next step...
Essentially, so you told them physical addiction doesnt exit... great. .. how do apply that to their situation?
It applies because now they know they can stop blaming something that doesn't exist and start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of playing the victim who can't lose weight due to their so-called addiction.
Now they can start working on real solutions to their problem, which most of the knowledgeable posters here tend to offer along with debunking the addict baloney.0 -
TheBeachgod wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »makingmark wrote: »I think deep down most of us know the truth, it is just uncomfortable. Facing the uncomfortable truth is really the best way to control our weight. Elaborate fantasies that make us feel better aren't really doing us any favors.
agreed but it happens all day everyday, and i am sure many people have been there at one time or another
the feelings i had about losing weight and excising felt real at the time, i can now see they were silly.
we all just wake up at different times and make the change. and some people never do.
But if people are not allowed to point out the somewhat uncomfortable truths, then how is that person supposed to arrive at their epiphany? If all they see is validation of erroneous beliefs, why would they confront their misconceptions?
again its always about delivery and the perception thingy
its not always about what is said its how it is said
i have seen threads in the past that ends up mocking the op that will never end well
There you go..
Its not the correcting of misinformation. .. its that fact that its the only thing people do... while completely ignoring the OP.
The only conspiracies are the ones that are beig made up by those people who dont find the balance between correcting erroneous data and provide help to the OP.
If providing help to the OP is part of the criteria, than shouldn't all replies that say sugar addiction is real end up here, 100% of the time, as lying to someone and reinforcing false information is never going to be helpful?
Instead it seems like the burden is inverted. The assumption is that people saying sugar addiction isn't a thing are automatically assumed unproductive and moved here.
Helping the OP doesnt mean lying to them. I dont know why this concept is so hard but helping people is more than correcting bad information... its provide the next step...
Essentially, so you told them physical addiction doesnt exit... great. .. how do apply that to their situation?
It applies because now they know they can stop blaming something that doesn't exist and start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of playing the victim who can't lose weight due to their so-called addiction.
Now they can start working on real solutions to their problem, which most of the knowledgeable posters here tend to offer along with debunking the addict baloney.
I'm here. I'm counting calories. I'm trying to end it. It is unfair to say that someone that has made an account on a calorie counting site and has reached out for help in the forum, that they are playing the victim and wanting to use addiction as an excuse to keep overeating.0 -
It is if that is what are doing.0
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TheBeachgod wrote: »It is if that is what are doing.
Which are only going to apply to a specific set of people.. It is not an absolute. What many fail to understand, is that some people are just frustrated and don't have the education to know what to do. And whether you create an account of MFP or try to follow a lifestyle, it demonstrates, at least to some extent, that you are trying to change.0 -
Agreed 100%.0
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There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.
I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.
Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
Posters shouldn't have to pay for the sins of other posters.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
Posters shouldn't have to pay for the sins of other posters.
I think it's a bit over-dramatic to equate posts you don't particularly care for online with "paying for sins." Sometimes people will write things about you online that you don't care for.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.
I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.
Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.
Agreed. I'm still struggling with binging, and for the same reason, I avoid "binging" threads. I'm not going to help you feel better about eating two cookies because I'm working on my own issues. Figure it out.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.
I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.
Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.
I haven't had issues with BED but I know so many of you that have. I have really struggled with finding a way of asking the question of an OP as to what they mean when they say they binged - do they mean they just ate over their calorie alotment, that they couldn't put the bag of chips down, or do they mean binge in the truly clinical and compulsive sense of the word the way that I've seen it described on here by those who do have this issue. I've tried to ask the question, and every time, someone acts as if I'm nitpicking or diminishing their experience which is not my intent but again, just trying to understand from their perspective what did they mean so that people can offer appropriate advice. Which is why semantics and the intent of a person's post really do matter, but why it is so frustrating that probing for details about what that user meant is seen to be as an attack, trying to start a debate, or not supportive...0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Another word that gets misused is binge. I see non ed people using it interchangeably with overeat. They say they binged but they mean they overate. As someone who is a recovering anorexic binge/purge subtype binge means something else. It typically is in the order of thousands of calories. I have known bulimics who would eat approximately 5000 calories in one sitting, get rid of it, eat 5000 more, get rid of it over and over. In my head a binge is also a total lack of control and stuffing food down quickly and without really tasting it. It doesn't mean that you overate during your Christmas dinner or cheat meal or whatever.
I know this is two days old, but this one drives me nuts. And it keeps me from replying to binge threads at all, even though I have experience and advice to share. My advice, though, is going to be completely different for someone experiencing binges that are closer to diagnosable territory than someone using the word to mean I had a bag of potato chips and felt guilty. I can't find a way to give advice there without adding some kind of primer on the two uses of the word "binge" and I just don't have the energy for that anymore.
Sugar/food addiction is similar. Too many prongs to bother replying to those threads. Too many different ways to approach it, not enough energy to create yet another list that's going to be ignored in favor of tl;dr advice from someone willing to agree with the OP's ideas. Semantics matter. They give us the context of the thread and the building blocks of the advice and the tone to use and all of the other things we base our advice on. Good information matters. Always.
I haven't had issues with BED but I know so many of you that have. I have really struggled with finding a way of asking the question of an OP as to what they mean when they say they binged - do they mean they just ate over their calorie alotment, that they couldn't put the bag of chips down, or do they mean binge in the truly clinical and compulsive sense of the word the way that I've seen it described on here by those who do have this issue. I've tried to ask the question, and every time, someone acts as if I'm nitpicking or diminishing their experience which is not my intent but again, just trying to understand from their perspective what did they mean so that people can offer appropriate advice. Which is why semantics and the intent of a person's post really do matter, but why it is so frustrating that probing for details about what that user meant is seen to be as an attack, trying to start a debate, or not supportive...
It's hard to ask, I completely agree. But it's important to know because the advice for someone who is struggling with BED should be different than the advice for someone who caved and had mozzarella sticks and chocolate cream pie with dinner when they didn't plan to.
I haven't figured out a good way to ask. I don't want to tell someone to seek professional help if they just need to get better at navigating common food pitfalls. And I don't want to tell someone to "just pre-log" or "bank extra calories on weekdays" if they really need help.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..
I would add that looking for sympathy isn't a character flaw.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..
I do wish that you wouldn't group everyone together in your posts. As someone who's been through therapy and used it to work through food issues and advised people on these boards to seek therapy or help when it seems like it would help (as we're discussing above) it's not my go-to advice AND it's not insulting to suggest someone seek outside help.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »There are definitely some users who seem to be using it as an excuse. I recall an OP who posted "can't diet because addicted to junk food. If I have it at home I will eat it, and if I don't I will go out and buy it."
I think a lot of this is that people who aren't yet ready or internally motivated to lose the weight get messages, either from loved ones and friends or society in general, that they SHOULD lose the weight, and they feel compelled to go through the motions of trying but don't really want to change their habits, so they assert that they cannot.
I think that kind of thing is really common human behavior.
I don't deny that there aren't people who are either just looking for sympathy or are using it as an excuse, but labeling the majority based on the minority is ridiculous. And that is what is happening. Our first response is people are using it as an excuse, and if they don't agree, we suggest therapy..
How can we tell who is who?
When i read some threads it just feels like the person truly believes they are suffering from something other than over eating. I used that example of a thread yesterday where the Op believed she needed the doctors. So i know some people feel they are mocking those with true illnesses, but I honestly feel for some at that present time they truly believe they too have an illness.0
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