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Arguing Semantics - sugar addiction
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And I know you retain fluid, etc after binges but you actually do eat enough to gain a pound or more of "real" weight.0
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I agree! I struggle with all or nothing thinking so I get "addicted" to everything I enjoy be it internet, colouring, music (I have a music degree and used to practice 5 hours a day), video games, etc. I wasn't addicted to those things as the things are interchangeable, it was my way of thinking.0
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juggernaut1974 wrote: »Before I discuss my thoughts, I wanted to let everyone know, this thread is not the place to discuss your displeasure or express your concerns over MFP and/or the moderation team or employees of MFP. There are platforms for that (surveys, user panels, and you can send your thoughts to a moderator that you trust and/or an admin). This subforum was set up in response to the overwhelming request of many users who wanted to area to have in depth discussions on nutrition. Overall, we are trying to provide some delineation from the main forum (GW&D) to allow members to have a place to get some answer without having their thread hijacked everything someone uses words like: sugar addiction, Paleo, low carb, etc... This does NOT mean that if someone asked about the next big "fat burning" supplement, or Dr. Oz diet, that one should not provide them a scientific response answer. In an essence, we are trying to mitigate some of the debates over semantics in favor of OP's getting helped. As too often, the moment a person uses those words, the thread gets hijacking and taken down that path to never receive answers.
This leads me to my thoughts on semantics and some of the problems I have with some of these threads... it's the absolutism that is applied. But before I expand on what I mean, let me first state that I have not seen a human study that would suggest that physical sugar addiction exist. And i firmly believe that "food addiction" is more behavioral than anything else. I also firmly believe that just because one thinks they have an addiction to "xx" doesn't mean they are using that as an excuse. Many people use it a means of telling oneself that something has to change (i.e. - they join MFP to make better choices and lose that weight they finally wanted to).
This leads me to my main point. The discussion of semantics is based on context... no different than diet. If the subject is about a news article or a thread like that, then yes, semantics matter. But for a large in part, as a newbie in the GD&W section, I see semantics mean less than the plan itself. Why? Because most noobs, have so much information overload already going-on, that 20 pages of debating semantics is not going to give them what they need. Now, let me also state, that there are exceptions to every rule (again, no absolutes) who actually care about semantics... but I see them as the minority around here. Do I like semantics.. absolutely. I love to see emerging science. But when I am working with people, 99% of them don't care about them. They just want a plan to get them on the right path.
Or maybe when some people were new....like I was...they could have their incorrect beliefs about food addiction challenged, learn the actual science/truth of it all and be better for it. Placating someone's incorrect beliefs isn't about semantics, it's about the belief above all else that everyone's beliefs and feelings must be protected above all else.
I know why MFP takes that stance and I don't respect it, but not my circus...not my monkeys. MFP will get their forever customers and I'll help whoever I can elsewhere.
No one is suggesting to not correct misstatements but not all threads need to divulge into a debate over semantics. Its generally not helpful to the OP.
If people could correct poor informationand provide solutions to an issue, this place would have less issues.
Here's the problem though:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Often people are really invested in the idea that sugar is worse than heroin or whatever (sigh) and jump in and so an argument ends up raging, as people feel compelled to correct the misinformation (like the suggestion that sugar, but not other foods, has some special effect on the brain or my favorite, that "processed" foods are somehow more hard to resist than other foods). Usually it's not the OP who gets into the argument, although sometimes the OP is also invested.
More often than not, the OP makes an unfortunate word choice...someone (as lemurcat described) gently corrects him/her, and then in comes the brigade of rat studies from completely unrelated (and often new) users. So those posters also need to be corrected, and on down the rabbit hole we go until inevitably someone shouts "SEMANTICS!" and the thread gets locked.
It is unfortunate that most of the time, the OP's actual concerns get overshadowed. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I do think that stifling the correction of misinformation is NOT the right answer though.
There needs to be balance between correcting misinformation and pseudoscience, and being able to address the OP's concerns (the latter is generally what falls to the waste side as many would rather argue the semantics).
In other dark parts of the forum, people can find that balance more frequently. Unfortunately, there are certain threads that seem to trigger certain responses (since we are talking addiction, you can call them trigger phrases).0 -
here! here!0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »Before I discuss my thoughts, I wanted to let everyone know, this thread is not the place to discuss your displeasure or express your concerns over MFP and/or the moderation team or employees of MFP. There are platforms for that (surveys, user panels, and you can send your thoughts to a moderator that you trust and/or an admin). This subforum was set up in response to the overwhelming request of many users who wanted to area to have in depth discussions on nutrition. Overall, we are trying to provide some delineation from the main forum (GW&D) to allow members to have a place to get some answer without having their thread hijacked everything someone uses words like: sugar addiction, Paleo, low carb, etc... This does NOT mean that if someone asked about the next big "fat burning" supplement, or Dr. Oz diet, that one should not provide them a scientific response answer. In an essence, we are trying to mitigate some of the debates over semantics in favor of OP's getting helped. As too often, the moment a person uses those words, the thread gets hijacking and taken down that path to never receive answers.
This leads me to my thoughts on semantics and some of the problems I have with some of these threads... it's the absolutism that is applied. But before I expand on what I mean, let me first state that I have not seen a human study that would suggest that physical sugar addiction exist. And i firmly believe that "food addiction" is more behavioral than anything else. I also firmly believe that just because one thinks they have an addiction to "xx" doesn't mean they are using that as an excuse. Many people use it a means of telling oneself that something has to change (i.e. - they join MFP to make better choices and lose that weight they finally wanted to).
This leads me to my main point. The discussion of semantics is based on context... no different than diet. If the subject is about a news article or a thread like that, then yes, semantics matter. But for a large in part, as a newbie in the GD&W section, I see semantics mean less than the plan itself. Why? Because most noobs, have so much information overload already going-on, that 20 pages of debating semantics is not going to give them what they need. Now, let me also state, that there are exceptions to every rule (again, no absolutes) who actually care about semantics... but I see them as the minority around here. Do I like semantics.. absolutely. I love to see emerging science. But when I am working with people, 99% of them don't care about them. They just want a plan to get them on the right path.
Or maybe when some people were new....like I was...they could have their incorrect beliefs about food addiction challenged, learn the actual science/truth of it all and be better for it. Placating someone's incorrect beliefs isn't about semantics, it's about the belief above all else that everyone's beliefs and feelings must be protected above all else.
I know why MFP takes that stance and I don't respect it, but not my circus...not my monkeys. MFP will get their forever customers and I'll help whoever I can elsewhere.
No one is suggesting to not correct misstatements but not all threads need to divulge into a debate over semantics. Its generally not helpful to the OP.
If people could correct poor informationand provide solutions to an issue, this place would have less issues.
Here's the problem though:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Often people are really invested in the idea that sugar is worse than heroin or whatever (sigh) and jump in and so an argument ends up raging, as people feel compelled to correct the misinformation (like the suggestion that sugar, but not other foods, has some special effect on the brain or my favorite, that "processed" foods are somehow more hard to resist than other foods). Usually it's not the OP who gets into the argument, although sometimes the OP is also invested.
More often than not, the OP makes an unfortunate word choice...someone (as lemurcat described) gently corrects him/her, and then in comes the brigade of rat studies from completely unrelated (and often new) users. So those posters also need to be corrected, and on down the rabbit hole we go until inevitably someone shouts "SEMANTICS!" and the thread gets locked.
It is unfortunate that most of the time, the OP's actual concerns get overshadowed. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I do think that stifling the correction of misinformation is NOT the right answer though.
There needs to be balance between correcting misinformation and pseudoscience, and being able to address the OP's concerns (the latter is generally what falls to the waste side as many would rather argue the semantics).
In other dark parts of the forum, people can find that balance more frequently. Unfortunately, there are certain threads that seem to trigger certain responses (since we are talking addiction, you can call them trigger phrases).
The issue being what we're usually talking isn't truly addiction no matter how much some people swear it is. Countering a member who flat out claims an addiction gets deemed derailing, arguing, off topic, etc and moved from the main forum. Words have meanings ... or used to.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »Before I discuss my thoughts, I wanted to let everyone know, this thread is not the place to discuss your displeasure or express your concerns over MFP and/or the moderation team or employees of MFP. There are platforms for that (surveys, user panels, and you can send your thoughts to a moderator that you trust and/or an admin). This subforum was set up in response to the overwhelming request of many users who wanted to area to have in depth discussions on nutrition. Overall, we are trying to provide some delineation from the main forum (GW&D) to allow members to have a place to get some answer without having their thread hijacked everything someone uses words like: sugar addiction, Paleo, low carb, etc... This does NOT mean that if someone asked about the next big "fat burning" supplement, or Dr. Oz diet, that one should not provide them a scientific response answer. In an essence, we are trying to mitigate some of the debates over semantics in favor of OP's getting helped. As too often, the moment a person uses those words, the thread gets hijacking and taken down that path to never receive answers.
This leads me to my thoughts on semantics and some of the problems I have with some of these threads... it's the absolutism that is applied. But before I expand on what I mean, let me first state that I have not seen a human study that would suggest that physical sugar addiction exist. And i firmly believe that "food addiction" is more behavioral than anything else. I also firmly believe that just because one thinks they have an addiction to "xx" doesn't mean they are using that as an excuse. Many people use it a means of telling oneself that something has to change (i.e. - they join MFP to make better choices and lose that weight they finally wanted to).
This leads me to my main point. The discussion of semantics is based on context... no different than diet. If the subject is about a news article or a thread like that, then yes, semantics matter. But for a large in part, as a newbie in the GD&W section, I see semantics mean less than the plan itself. Why? Because most noobs, have so much information overload already going-on, that 20 pages of debating semantics is not going to give them what they need. Now, let me also state, that there are exceptions to every rule (again, no absolutes) who actually care about semantics... but I see them as the minority around here. Do I like semantics.. absolutely. I love to see emerging science. But when I am working with people, 99% of them don't care about them. They just want a plan to get them on the right path.
Or maybe when some people were new....like I was...they could have their incorrect beliefs about food addiction challenged, learn the actual science/truth of it all and be better for it. Placating someone's incorrect beliefs isn't about semantics, it's about the belief above all else that everyone's beliefs and feelings must be protected above all else.
I know why MFP takes that stance and I don't respect it, but not my circus...not my monkeys. MFP will get their forever customers and I'll help whoever I can elsewhere.
No one is suggesting to not correct misstatements but not all threads need to divulge into a debate over semantics. Its generally not helpful to the OP.
If people could correct poor informationand provide solutions to an issue, this place would have less issues.
Here's the problem though:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Often people are really invested in the idea that sugar is worse than heroin or whatever (sigh) and jump in and so an argument ends up raging, as people feel compelled to correct the misinformation (like the suggestion that sugar, but not other foods, has some special effect on the brain or my favorite, that "processed" foods are somehow more hard to resist than other foods). Usually it's not the OP who gets into the argument, although sometimes the OP is also invested.
More often than not, the OP makes an unfortunate word choice...someone (as lemurcat described) gently corrects him/her, and then in comes the brigade of rat studies from completely unrelated (and often new) users. So those posters also need to be corrected, and on down the rabbit hole we go until inevitably someone shouts "SEMANTICS!" and the thread gets locked.
It is unfortunate that most of the time, the OP's actual concerns get overshadowed. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I do think that stifling the correction of misinformation is NOT the right answer though.
There needs to be balance between correcting misinformation and pseudoscience, and being able to address the OP's concerns (the latter is generally what falls to the waste side as many would rather argue the semantics).
In other dark parts of the forum, people can find that balance more frequently. Unfortunately, there are certain threads that seem to trigger certain responses (since we are talking addiction, you can call them trigger phrases).
The issue being what we're usually talking isn't truly addiction no matter how much some people swear it is. Countering a member who flat out claims an addiction gets deemed derailing, arguing, off topic, etc and moved from the main forum. Words have meanings ... or used to.
What usually happens, is someone uses that word addiction, people pile in to argue addiction and never address the OP. Again, people are missing the context of the conversation and ONLY care about arguing the semantics.
And yes, words do have meaning, but a lot of people misuse the words and this doesn't even address the cultural differences between words.0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »Before I discuss my thoughts, I wanted to let everyone know, this thread is not the place to discuss your displeasure or express your concerns over MFP and/or the moderation team or employees of MFP. There are platforms for that (surveys, user panels, and you can send your thoughts to a moderator that you trust and/or an admin). This subforum was set up in response to the overwhelming request of many users who wanted to area to have in depth discussions on nutrition. Overall, we are trying to provide some delineation from the main forum (GW&D) to allow members to have a place to get some answer without having their thread hijacked everything someone uses words like: sugar addiction, Paleo, low carb, etc... This does NOT mean that if someone asked about the next big "fat burning" supplement, or Dr. Oz diet, that one should not provide them a scientific response answer. In an essence, we are trying to mitigate some of the debates over semantics in favor of OP's getting helped. As too often, the moment a person uses those words, the thread gets hijacking and taken down that path to never receive answers.
This leads me to my thoughts on semantics and some of the problems I have with some of these threads... it's the absolutism that is applied. But before I expand on what I mean, let me first state that I have not seen a human study that would suggest that physical sugar addiction exist. And i firmly believe that "food addiction" is more behavioral than anything else. I also firmly believe that just because one thinks they have an addiction to "xx" doesn't mean they are using that as an excuse. Many people use it a means of telling oneself that something has to change (i.e. - they join MFP to make better choices and lose that weight they finally wanted to).
This leads me to my main point. The discussion of semantics is based on context... no different than diet. If the subject is about a news article or a thread like that, then yes, semantics matter. But for a large in part, as a newbie in the GD&W section, I see semantics mean less than the plan itself. Why? Because most noobs, have so much information overload already going-on, that 20 pages of debating semantics is not going to give them what they need. Now, let me also state, that there are exceptions to every rule (again, no absolutes) who actually care about semantics... but I see them as the minority around here. Do I like semantics.. absolutely. I love to see emerging science. But when I am working with people, 99% of them don't care about them. They just want a plan to get them on the right path.
Or maybe when some people were new....like I was...they could have their incorrect beliefs about food addiction challenged, learn the actual science/truth of it all and be better for it. Placating someone's incorrect beliefs isn't about semantics, it's about the belief above all else that everyone's beliefs and feelings must be protected above all else.
I know why MFP takes that stance and I don't respect it, but not my circus...not my monkeys. MFP will get their forever customers and I'll help whoever I can elsewhere.
No one is suggesting to not correct misstatements but not all threads need to divulge into a debate over semantics. Its generally not helpful to the OP.
If people could correct poor informationand provide solutions to an issue, this place would have less issues.
Here's the problem though:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Often people are really invested in the idea that sugar is worse than heroin or whatever (sigh) and jump in and so an argument ends up raging, as people feel compelled to correct the misinformation (like the suggestion that sugar, but not other foods, has some special effect on the brain or my favorite, that "processed" foods are somehow more hard to resist than other foods). Usually it's not the OP who gets into the argument, although sometimes the OP is also invested.
More often than not, the OP makes an unfortunate word choice...someone (as lemurcat described) gently corrects him/her, and then in comes the brigade of rat studies from completely unrelated (and often new) users. So those posters also need to be corrected, and on down the rabbit hole we go until inevitably someone shouts "SEMANTICS!" and the thread gets locked.
It is unfortunate that most of the time, the OP's actual concerns get overshadowed. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I do think that stifling the correction of misinformation is NOT the right answer though.
Here's the problem, though. The correction + advice already does happen. Then a few posters usually show up, and ironically none of them have been present here in this new subforum, and it turns into a disaster. But somehow, all of the posters who were trying to give advice on the first place get put in jail and the ones that came in and derailed everything get off Scott free. It's mind-blowing.
FWIW, I use the report function a lot when I see this happening and these habitual derailers still get to go on derailing. I understand the frustration expressed in this thread.
Words matter.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »Before I discuss my thoughts, I wanted to let everyone know, this thread is not the place to discuss your displeasure or express your concerns over MFP and/or the moderation team or employees of MFP. There are platforms for that (surveys, user panels, and you can send your thoughts to a moderator that you trust and/or an admin). This subforum was set up in response to the overwhelming request of many users who wanted to area to have in depth discussions on nutrition. Overall, we are trying to provide some delineation from the main forum (GW&D) to allow members to have a place to get some answer without having their thread hijacked everything someone uses words like: sugar addiction, Paleo, low carb, etc... This does NOT mean that if someone asked about the next big "fat burning" supplement, or Dr. Oz diet, that one should not provide them a scientific response answer. In an essence, we are trying to mitigate some of the debates over semantics in favor of OP's getting helped. As too often, the moment a person uses those words, the thread gets hijacking and taken down that path to never receive answers.
This leads me to my thoughts on semantics and some of the problems I have with some of these threads... it's the absolutism that is applied. But before I expand on what I mean, let me first state that I have not seen a human study that would suggest that physical sugar addiction exist. And i firmly believe that "food addiction" is more behavioral than anything else. I also firmly believe that just because one thinks they have an addiction to "xx" doesn't mean they are using that as an excuse. Many people use it a means of telling oneself that something has to change (i.e. - they join MFP to make better choices and lose that weight they finally wanted to).
This leads me to my main point. The discussion of semantics is based on context... no different than diet. If the subject is about a news article or a thread like that, then yes, semantics matter. But for a large in part, as a newbie in the GD&W section, I see semantics mean less than the plan itself. Why? Because most noobs, have so much information overload already going-on, that 20 pages of debating semantics is not going to give them what they need. Now, let me also state, that there are exceptions to every rule (again, no absolutes) who actually care about semantics... but I see them as the minority around here. Do I like semantics.. absolutely. I love to see emerging science. But when I am working with people, 99% of them don't care about them. They just want a plan to get them on the right path.
Or maybe when some people were new....like I was...they could have their incorrect beliefs about food addiction challenged, learn the actual science/truth of it all and be better for it. Placating someone's incorrect beliefs isn't about semantics, it's about the belief above all else that everyone's beliefs and feelings must be protected above all else.
I know why MFP takes that stance and I don't respect it, but not my circus...not my monkeys. MFP will get their forever customers and I'll help whoever I can elsewhere.
No one is suggesting to not correct misstatements but not all threads need to divulge into a debate over semantics. Its generally not helpful to the OP.
If people could correct poor informationand provide solutions to an issue, this place would have less issues.
Here's the problem though:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Often people are really invested in the idea that sugar is worse than heroin or whatever (sigh) and jump in and so an argument ends up raging, as people feel compelled to correct the misinformation (like the suggestion that sugar, but not other foods, has some special effect on the brain or my favorite, that "processed" foods are somehow more hard to resist than other foods). Usually it's not the OP who gets into the argument, although sometimes the OP is also invested.
More often than not, the OP makes an unfortunate word choice...someone (as lemurcat described) gently corrects him/her, and then in comes the brigade of rat studies from completely unrelated (and often new) users. So those posters also need to be corrected, and on down the rabbit hole we go until inevitably someone shouts "SEMANTICS!" and the thread gets locked.
It is unfortunate that most of the time, the OP's actual concerns get overshadowed. I'm not sure what the right answer is. I do think that stifling the correction of misinformation is NOT the right answer though.
There needs to be balance between correcting misinformation and pseudoscience, and being able to address the OP's concerns (the latter is generally what falls to the waste side as many would rather argue the semantics).
In other dark parts of the forum, people can find that balance more frequently. Unfortunately, there are certain threads that seem to trigger certain responses (since we are talking addiction, you can call them trigger phrases).
The issue being what we're usually talking isn't truly addiction no matter how much some people swear it is. Countering a member who flat out claims an addiction gets deemed derailing, arguing, off topic, etc and moved from the main forum. Words have meanings ... or used to.
What usually happens, is someone uses that word addiction, people pile in to argue addiction and never address the OP. Again, people are missing the context of the conversation and ONLY care about arguing the semantics.
And yes, words do have meaning, but a lot of people misuse the words and this doesn't even address the cultural differences between words.
Look back at the chocoholic thread that split into this forum's Sugar Addiction thread. The outright claims of addiction remain, including those made after people noted the error of their wording. The countering posts are now in this subforum. It should amaze me that you concede words have meaning while rationalizing why the incorrect usage is eplicitly condoned by MFP while the correct usage gets moved. Sadly, it doesn't due to the frequent occurrence of such behavior.
If sugar addiction is not a suitable topic for the main forum then why do the assertions of some remain while the counterpoints disappear?0 -
Panda_brat wrote: »AS a former smoker and some one who went from 335 to 168 pounds, cutting back on food is a lot easier. I can have a piece of candy or junk food once in a while and not have to going back to my old ways of over eating. I will not tack one puff of cigarette in fear of relapsing, i will not even hang around people who are smoking. Lack of self control is not the same as addiction.
#TRUTH
For me, it always feels like someone is dismissing the struggles people with addiction have to deal with. If you had to go one day without something sweet, yeah you'll crave it, but you'll be fine. Going one day without smoking, espically if you smoke a lot in a day, sucks HARD. The only reason my dad quit smoking is that he was in the hospital for a mild heart attack, and shortly after he got home (as in next day) he had to go back for pneumonia. My dad's a retired Navy chief, so you know he's got a strong will, but wasn't able to stop smoking before then. It took him being in the hospital for a couple of weeks and then being sent home with a nebulizer for another few weeks so that he could breathe to be able to quit. THAT is what overcoming addiction looks like. And someone trying to get off heroin has it worse than that! So for me, when someone says they're addicted to sugar, in my mind, it trivializes what real addiction is.
This^^
Today is the anniversary of me being smoke-free for five years. And I was a heavy smoker. Quitting was one of the hardest things I've ever done because I was addicted to the nicotine, and the habit of smoking was something I thoroughly enjoyed.
Five years later, I'm still waiting for cigarettes to smell nasty. Whenever I pass someone that's smoking, it still smells absolutely terrific. I know that I cannot be around people who smoke, because I know that I am certain to relapse if it was in my face all the time. This knowledge - rather than showing a weakness - is actually my strength, because I know I'll never be able to become complacent about being a non-smoker. I know how tentative that status is for me.
Even five years later.
But sugar? Physically addictive? Not a chance.
0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Panda_brat wrote: »AS a former smoker and some one who went from 335 to 168 pounds, cutting back on food is a lot easier. I can have a piece of candy or junk food once in a while and not have to going back to my old ways of over eating. I will not tack one puff of cigarette in fear of relapsing, i will not even hang around people who are smoking. Lack of self control is not the same as addiction.
#TRUTH
For me, it always feels like someone is dismissing the struggles people with addiction have to deal with. If you had to go one day without something sweet, yeah you'll crave it, but you'll be fine. Going one day without smoking, espically if you smoke a lot in a day, sucks HARD. The only reason my dad quit smoking is that he was in the hospital for a mild heart attack, and shortly after he got home (as in next day) he had to go back for pneumonia. My dad's a retired Navy chief, so you know he's got a strong will, but wasn't able to stop smoking before then. It took him being in the hospital for a couple of weeks and then being sent home with a nebulizer for another few weeks so that he could breathe to be able to quit. THAT is what overcoming addiction looks like. And someone trying to get off heroin has it worse than that! So for me, when someone says they're addicted to sugar, in my mind, it trivializes what real addiction is.
This^^
Today is the anniversary of me being smoke-free for five years. And I was a heavy smoker. Quitting was one of the hardest things I've ever done because I was addicted to the nicotine, and the habit of smoking was something I thoroughly enjoyed.
Five years later, I'm still waiting for cigarettes to smell nasty. Whenever I pass someone that's smoking, it still smells absolutely terrific. I know that I cannot be around people who smoke, because I know that I am certain to relapse if it was in my face all the time. This knowledge - rather than showing a weakness - is actually my strength, because I know I'll never be able to become complacent about being a non-smoker. I know how tentative that status is for me.
Even five years later.
But sugar? Physically addictive? Not a chance.
Unfortunate pro-tip: it might not smell nasty even 25 years after quitting.
But at least the reflex of reaching into my inside jacket pocket on a crisp cold morning did finally stop.0 -
I've never been a smoker and I never thought it smelled nasty. But my parents were smokers for a long time so maybe that's why.0
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Yet another thread that mentions sugar addiction. I find a new one at least once a day.0
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singingflutelady wrote: »Yet another thread that mentions sugar addiction. I find a new one at least once a day.
There is a claim of soy sauce addiction on the forum today. So far, nobody countered that assertion.
0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Yet another thread that mentions sugar addiction. I find a new one at least once a day.
There is a claim of soy sauce addiction on the forum today. So far, nobody countered that assertion.
I... uhh... 0.o0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Panda_brat wrote: »AS a former smoker and some one who went from 335 to 168 pounds, cutting back on food is a lot easier. I can have a piece of candy or junk food once in a while and not have to going back to my old ways of over eating. I will not tack one puff of cigarette in fear of relapsing, i will not even hang around people who are smoking. Lack of self control is not the same as addiction.
#TRUTH
For me, it always feels like someone is dismissing the struggles people with addiction have to deal with. If you had to go one day without something sweet, yeah you'll crave it, but you'll be fine. Going one day without smoking, espically if you smoke a lot in a day, sucks HARD. The only reason my dad quit smoking is that he was in the hospital for a mild heart attack, and shortly after he got home (as in next day) he had to go back for pneumonia. My dad's a retired Navy chief, so you know he's got a strong will, but wasn't able to stop smoking before then. It took him being in the hospital for a couple of weeks and then being sent home with a nebulizer for another few weeks so that he could breathe to be able to quit. THAT is what overcoming addiction looks like. And someone trying to get off heroin has it worse than that! So for me, when someone says they're addicted to sugar, in my mind, it trivializes what real addiction is.
This^^
Today is the anniversary of me being smoke-free for five years. And I was a heavy smoker. Quitting was one of the hardest things I've ever done because I was addicted to the nicotine, and the habit of smoking was something I thoroughly enjoyed.
Five years later, I'm still waiting for cigarettes to smell nasty. Whenever I pass someone that's smoking, it still smells absolutely terrific. I know that I cannot be around people who smoke, because I know that I am certain to relapse if it was in my face all the time. This knowledge - rather than showing a weakness - is actually my strength, because I know I'll never be able to become complacent about being a non-smoker. I know how tentative that status is for me.
Even five years later.
But sugar? Physically addictive? Not a chance.
Unfortunate pro-tip: it might not smell nasty even 25 years after quitting.
But at least the reflex of reaching into my inside jacket pocket on a crisp cold morning did finally stop.
Damn. Where are all the ex-smokers who always say that cigarettes smell nasty now? Complete with a kind of born-again zeal?
Twenty-five years? Wow.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Yet another thread that mentions sugar addiction. I find a new one at least once a day.
There is a claim of soy sauce addiction on the forum today. So far, nobody countered that assertion.
Nobody soy that one coming.0 -
OK ... so I've been reading along with this thread about arguing the meaning of the wording sugar 'addiction' ... and while I agree that it's not a good idea to use words loosely, I can relate to a time when it FELT LIKE I might have an addiction to certain substances.
I can remember asking my doctor about it because this is what happened in regards to 2 specific substances ...
1 ... nicotine from cigarettes
2 ... Snickers candy bars
In the first case, I had been a cigarette user for over 25 years with varying daily quantities from very casual to 1-1/2 packs a day to trying to quit the habit. I was in my 10th year of trying to stop smoking and was extremely frustrated by the ever increasing compulsion to smoke that grew daily the longer I abstained from it. Every time I quit I'd do very well for a couple of weeks, and then it would start to get harder and harder. As it happened, I had a check-up appointment with my doctor about 4 months into the last attempt and I told him about my constant mental obbsession and desire for a cigarette ... How I felt like I was going insane from my perceived 'need' for one. He decided that it wasn't a mouth habit that was holding me hostage, but an addiction to nicotine. The solution he provided was to go back to having some nicotine, but not in the form of a cigarette, and at the lowest dose I could manage. ... He put me on nicotine containing chewing gum. That was in 1990, and it only took one prescription to wean me off it to the point that it wasn't on my mind all the time (I made that one prescription last 6 months instad of 1 by cutting the tablets into quarters and eventually only using a quarter of a piece in several days.) It took another several months before I didn't try to get second hand smoke into my lungs as a means of getting some and, it was another 3 or 4 years before I no longer felt like a smoke during specific times ... like when under a lot of stress, or after a really good sex or out with friends in the bars or after a festive meal.
In the second case, after I gave up the cigarette habit, I got into the new habit of buying a snack out of the vending machine in the afternoon. Sometimes my choice was a Snickers candy bar. Other times it was nuts, either M&M Peanuts or Planters Salted Peanuts. Pretty soon I noticed a pattern. If I had a Snickers bar, I would crave another bar the next day at snack time, but that didn't happen with the other choices. Then, if I went ahead and chose to have the Snickers bar, I would desire one later on in the day as well, so sometimes I bought 2 of them to be able to satisfy that urge later on. To this day, if I have a Snickers bar I will still crave to have a second one later on, and sometimes I start to crave other sweets as well and end up eating 6 candy bars instead of 1.
Now ... were both addictions of some sort, or not?
My doctor used the term nicotine addiction in the one case, in the other he told me to just stop buying Snickers candy bars since I seemed to have a low tolerance for controlling cravings when I had some. .... But, isn't an addiction to something also described as having a low or no tolerance for controlling the craving?
I can site a third example of low tolerance for abstaining from a cravings ... carb dense foods. Yes, I know that sugar is a carb. I also know that Snicker's candy bars are loaded with both sugar and fat (chocolate, nougat, caramel, nuts) ... yet I can eat a greasy hamburger or slice of meat and cheese pizza and not crave another, but if I eat french bread, or a chocolate chip cookie ... watch out! I will, later on ... in about 60 - 90 minutes, be feeling the strong desire to have something like ... a lot of fruit, more bread or cookies, noodles, ... and get no satisfaction of the desire to continue eating more even though I am not hungry. Needless to say, even though I am full to the point of feeling like I'll be sick to my stomach. ... Is that gorging steming from my lack of will or from some sort of chemical reaction inside my brain from specific foods?
So ... to end this long story ... Call it semantics, but if it feels like I cannot control it, then it feels like an addiction. My solution? ... abstinance.
I can relate. To both the food and the cigarette story. I quit smoking years ago but if I'm around someone smoking I notice I tend to breathe much deeper. Like you, I will get carbs from any source, including eating sugar straight from the bag when there wasn't anything else. As a young child my mother would put chocolate flavoring in my milk to get me to drink it. I would pour the milk out and eat the undissolved powder in the bottom of the glass. Sometimes I would forego the milk altogether.
Yesterday (Valentine's Day), at work the hospital provided some bags of M&Ms as treats for those of us giving up our Sunday. They were small bags, so I took one. . . an hour later all I could think about were those M&Ms, so I took another telling myself, "No more." Then I took another and another. Since the bowl was in my direct line of sight I couldn't even get away from them. I can't remember how many I ate. The worst part is, I know that if I hadn't taken the first package the whole thing would have been averted.0 -
positivepowers wrote: »OK ... so I've been reading along with this thread about arguing the meaning of the wording sugar 'addiction' ... and while I agree that it's not a good idea to use words loosely, I can relate to a time when it FELT LIKE I might have an addiction to certain substances.
I can remember asking my doctor about it because this is what happened in regards to 2 specific substances ...
1 ... nicotine from cigarettes
2 ... Snickers candy bars
In the first case, I had been a cigarette user for over 25 years with varying daily quantities from very casual to 1-1/2 packs a day to trying to quit the habit. I was in my 10th year of trying to stop smoking and was extremely frustrated by the ever increasing compulsion to smoke that grew daily the longer I abstained from it. Every time I quit I'd do very well for a couple of weeks, and then it would start to get harder and harder. As it happened, I had a check-up appointment with my doctor about 4 months into the last attempt and I told him about my constant mental obbsession and desire for a cigarette ... How I felt like I was going insane from my perceived 'need' for one. He decided that it wasn't a mouth habit that was holding me hostage, but an addiction to nicotine. The solution he provided was to go back to having some nicotine, but not in the form of a cigarette, and at the lowest dose I could manage. ... He put me on nicotine containing chewing gum. That was in 1990, and it only took one prescription to wean me off it to the point that it wasn't on my mind all the time (I made that one prescription last 6 months instad of 1 by cutting the tablets into quarters and eventually only using a quarter of a piece in several days.) It took another several months before I didn't try to get second hand smoke into my lungs as a means of getting some and, it was another 3 or 4 years before I no longer felt like a smoke during specific times ... like when under a lot of stress, or after a really good sex or out with friends in the bars or after a festive meal.
In the second case, after I gave up the cigarette habit, I got into the new habit of buying a snack out of the vending machine in the afternoon. Sometimes my choice was a Snickers candy bar. Other times it was nuts, either M&M Peanuts or Planters Salted Peanuts. Pretty soon I noticed a pattern. If I had a Snickers bar, I would crave another bar the next day at snack time, but that didn't happen with the other choices. Then, if I went ahead and chose to have the Snickers bar, I would desire one later on in the day as well, so sometimes I bought 2 of them to be able to satisfy that urge later on. To this day, if I have a Snickers bar I will still crave to have a second one later on, and sometimes I start to crave other sweets as well and end up eating 6 candy bars instead of 1.
Now ... were both addictions of some sort, or not?
My doctor used the term nicotine addiction in the one case, in the other he told me to just stop buying Snickers candy bars since I seemed to have a low tolerance for controlling cravings when I had some. .... But, isn't an addiction to something also described as having a low or no tolerance for controlling the craving?
I can site a third example of low tolerance for abstaining from a cravings ... carb dense foods. Yes, I know that sugar is a carb. I also know that Snicker's candy bars are loaded with both sugar and fat (chocolate, nougat, caramel, nuts) ... yet I can eat a greasy hamburger or slice of meat and cheese pizza and not crave another, but if I eat french bread, or a chocolate chip cookie ... watch out! I will, later on ... in about 60 - 90 minutes, be feeling the strong desire to have something like ... a lot of fruit, more bread or cookies, noodles, ... and get no satisfaction of the desire to continue eating more even though I am not hungry. Needless to say, even though I am full to the point of feeling like I'll be sick to my stomach. ... Is that gorging steming from my lack of will or from some sort of chemical reaction inside my brain from specific foods?
So ... to end this long story ... Call it semantics, but if it feels like I cannot control it, then it feels like an addiction. My solution? ... abstinance.
I can relate. To both the food and the cigarette story. I quit smoking years ago but if I'm around someone smoking I notice I tend to breathe much deeper. Like you, I will get carbs from any source, including eating sugar straight from the bag when there wasn't anything else. As a young child my mother would put chocolate flavoring in my milk to get me to drink it. I would pour the milk out and eat the undissolved powder in the bottom of the glass. Sometimes I would forego the milk altogether.
Yesterday (Valentine's Day), at work the hospital provided some bags of M&Ms as treats for those of us giving up our Sunday. They were small bags, so I took one. . . an hour later all I could think about were those M&Ms, so I took another telling myself, "No more." Then I took another and another. Since the bowl was in my direct line of sight I couldn't even get away from them. I can't remember how many I ate. The worst part is, I know that if I hadn't taken the first package the whole thing would have been averted.
YES!!! That is how it feels when it happens; and it happens every time, and not from any one specific carb laden food. I used to believe it has something to do with the 'glycemic load' of a food item. The more starch or sugar laden it is, the less of it I can consume and keep control of portions or repetitive eating ... That said, eating too much of even low glycemic index foods at one time also has the effect of wanting to eat something - anything - carb laden soon after. At least for me that is what happens. The only way I have been successful in controlling this is by limiting the grams of carb per meal and abstaining from sweatened confections and bakery items the best that I can.
However, you and I are discussing this on a forum that is intended to argue addiction, so while we have trouble with controlling these types of food we must accept that many posters on here would classify that as a fault in character or preference of tastes or food items rather than anything that is an addiction because one cannot be addicted to food.
Congratulations to you on quiting smoking. That was the hardest thing I ever did, quit smoking. When I am having a hard time controlling my cravings for sweet confections or bakery items I remind myself that if I was able to do that, then this is doable also, I just need to keep at it.0
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