Vegan gone unvegan because of bone broth craze?
angelexperiment
Posts: 1,917 Member
I'm interested if this has occurred to any long time vegans? There is this bone broth craze going on and apparently there are longtime vegans jumping on the cartilage benefit train!
I see you can have vegan bone broth ( without bones) with the same benefits as the bone broth.
I just wondered had anyone switched to no vegan for bone broth and why? I found it to be interesting and read many blogs of long time vegans (15+ years) gone non vegan bc of bone broth. I wanted to see what is the deal?
I see you can have vegan bone broth ( without bones) with the same benefits as the bone broth.
I just wondered had anyone switched to no vegan for bone broth and why? I found it to be interesting and read many blogs of long time vegans (15+ years) gone non vegan bc of bone broth. I wanted to see what is the deal?
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Bone broth usually goes hand in hand with the paleo diet. And I guess anyone who went vegan for health reasons may be interested in the paleo diet. You wouldn't catch me eating bone broth though!1
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I have never been vegan, but I have gelatin (collagen ) everyday for skin and hair health, plus it has a decent amount of protein0
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These vegans must've been doing something wrong if they think bone broth is gonna save them. You can eat seaweed, among many other foods, for the minerals that bone broth has. Collagen is another thing in bone broth that is touted for health. Well, your body makes its own collagen and it uses a variety of vitamins and minerals to do that. Again, these vegans must've not been eating enough fruits and vegetables to begin with if they think bone broth is gonna correct their deficiencies.6
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Vegan "bone broth" is what? Just . . .broth?
It's hard for me to imagine someone overcoming an objection to animal exploitation just to consume broth. It seems like just another food trend to me.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Vegan "bone broth" is what? Just . . .broth?
It's hard for me to imagine someone overcoming an objection to animal exploitation just to consume broth. It seems like just another food trend to me.
Yup, I find the whole premise kind of bizarre.0 -
OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses1 -
Isn't the one of the main points of being vegan, to NOT subject animals for food use?
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OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.4 -
So many questions...1
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What is bone broth, and why I've never heard of it...0
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MissBabyJane wrote: »What is bone broth, and why I've never heard of it...
Its stock1 -
well yes vegan bone broth is just broth from veggies and kelp and other sea veggies as they are higher in these nutrients similar to bone broth.janejellyroll wrote: »Vegan "bone broth" is what? Just . . .broth?
It's hard for me to imagine someone overcoming an objection to animal exploitation just to consume broth. It seems like just another food trend to me.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Vegan "bone broth" is what? Just . . .broth?
It's hard for me to imagine someone overcoming an objection to animal exploitation just to consume broth. It seems like just another food trend to me.
Yup, I find the whole premise kind of bizarre.
Me too. If you are plant-based for health and think bone broth is healthy, sure. But if you are vegan I don't see how you make an exception. No one needs to consume bone broth.1 -
Weird-dieting cousins of mine last week recommended bone soup for my wife's arthritis. This cousin claims that eating wheat grass cured her cancer, so you know.1
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Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.1 -
Personally would love to see links to where you found "many blogs of long time vegans (15+ years) gone non vegan bc of bone broth."
Honestly the statement below is much more believable...
Reading plenty of links concerning vegan and vegetarian alternatives to bone broth but nothing about transitions from vegan to omnivore because of a "bone broth craze" or "cartilage benefit train"
ETA: Actually considering I read about a "Vegan Paleo diet" who knows what people convince themselves of...
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Cryptonomnomicon wrote: »Personally would love to see links to where you found "many blogs of long time vegans (15+ years) gone non vegan bc of bone broth."
Honestly the statement below is much more believable...
Reading plenty of links concerning vegan and vegetarian alternatives to bone broth but nothing about transitions from vegan to omnivore because of a "bone broth craze" or "cartilage benefit train"
ETA: Actually considering I read about a "Vegan Paleo diet" who knows what people convince themselves of...
Well most of the people who moved from vegan to omni seemed to have gut issues.
Christiefischer.com - why bone broth is the bomb+recipe
Mindbodygreen.com-why you should be drinking more bone broth ( in comments a former vegan)
Elephant journal.com-why I stopped eating a raw vegan diet ( and did this instead)
Nourishing broth.com- from vegan to broth believer
Some other things-
Rebootwithjoe.com- why bone broth is hitting the headlines
Chriskresser.com- 5 reasons why nearly everyone should eat gelatin ( even vegetarians)
Organic authority.com- a vegan bone broth recipe?
Eatdrinkbetter.com-vegan bone broth is a thing now
Food&swine.com-mushroom broth is the new bone broth
The daily meal.com-toucan now brew bone broth in your keurig
Kimsnyder.com- bone broth: mystical elixir or just another food fad
• paleo vegan - not sure if that's a reference to pegan which is a diet by mark hyman- not really vegan more plant based tho
There's also a paleo vegetarian book out there I forget her name but she advocates eating eggs, fish for protein since you are cutting out grains and legumes ( or modified you can have certain legumes) but I felt this was very restricted and impractical.0 -
Bone broth is good if you've been sick. Lots of micronutrients in an easily digestible (but low cal) package. Also good if you're doing IF - lots of micronutrients and pretty decent protein (considering) in a low cal but high volume package. Personally, I think it tastes much better than regular chicken/turkey/beef broth so I'll substitute bone broth for regular broth in my cooking.
But the benefits and taste are no where near enough to switch from either vegetarian or vegan to have it. That's just nuts.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
You would *think* long-term vegans would understand how to meet their nutritional needs, but some of the long-term vegans I have met have been some of the most vulnerable to dietary trends that may deprive us of the nutrients we need: things like 80/10/10, very low fat, raw dieting, eliminating processed foods, refusal to supplement or eat fortified foods, extended fasts, liquid diets, etc. Spending years depriving your body of what it needs can, sadly, have serious consequences for our health.2 -
Isn't that just stock?0
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mean_and_lean wrote: »Isn't that just stock?
Yeah, but I think you need to cook it for for 24-36 hours straight, so the Gelatin and such leeches out0 -
Enough Already With the Bone Broth Hype
We asked scientists to weigh in on health claims about the trendy liquid.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/11/truth-about-bone-broth
Claim #1: Science has shown that bone broth is good for you. False. There's been very little actual research into bone broth's nutritional benefits. Kamal Patel, director of Examine, a scientific group that investigates nutritional claims about food and supplements, says the only actual study of bone broth he's found is this one—from 1934. What's more, says nutritionist Andy Bellatti, "There are so many different ways to do it that it's hard to make claims about bone broth in general." The nutritional value depends on many variables, including the kind and amount of bones, the length of time it simmers, and the other ingredients.
The only actual study on bone broth is from 1934.
Claim #2: The collagen in bone broth is good for your joints. Unlikely. Bone broth does contain collagen, a protein that contains amino acids essential for rebuilding bone, connective tissue, and skin. But just because you consume collagen doesn't mean that your body will use it to build bones. Through digestion, Patel explains, your body will break down the collagen and use its amino acids wherever they are needed. Furthermore, most of the health claims made about collagen in bone broth rely on studies of individual nutrients in supplement form. For example: The website Paleoleap claims that for patients with rheumatoid arthritis, chicken collagen bone broth could "help stop the autoimmune response in its tracks." But the study the piece links to as proof isn't about bone broth at all—rather, it's about patients who were given pills containing pure chicken collagen for three months straight. "You'd have to eat a whole lot of bone broth to get as much collagen as is in supplements," says Patel.
Claim #3: The glutamine in bone broth can cure your "leaky gut." Who knows. I'll explain why in a second, but first, some definitions: Glutamine is an amino acid, one of the building blocks the body uses to build proteins. In theory, leaky gut is a syndrome in which tiny holes in your intestinal lining allow food and other substances to leak, causing your body to mount an immune response that can lead to a variety of conditions, from irritable bowel syndrome to lupus. No one has proven that leaky gut syndrome actually exists, let alone that it causes the health problems some people (such as Dr. Oz) claim it does. None of the experts I talked to were aware of any study showing that glutamine has any effect whatsoever on the human intestinal tract. Most of the studies on glutamine and the gut that bone broth proponents cite were conducted on animals (for example, this one on malnourished rats, and this one on rats with colitis and pacreatitis).
None of the experts I talked to were aware of any study showing that glutamine has any effect whatsoever on the human intestinal tract.
Claim #4: Drinking bone broth will make you look younger. False. "You can find collagen in all kinds of 'plumping' products these days, but why stick it on the outside when you can drink it?" gushes Shape magazine. "Not only is drinking it cheaper, but it can make your skin, hair, and nails look just as radiant." It's true that some cosmetics that claim to reduce wrinkles contain collagen—there's even some research showing that collagen supplements may reduce the appearance of wrinkles. But again, supplements deliver way more collagen than broth does. What's more, Patel says, the collagen in supplements is hydrolyzed, meaning that it's broken down with heat, acids, and enzymes so your body can process it more efficiently. Collagen in bone broth isn't hydrolyzed.
Claim #5: Bone broth is a natural way to "detox your liver." Probably not. Bone-broth promoters often claim that the amino acid glycine—also present in collagen—helps liver rid the body of toxins. But science hasn't yet proven that anything that we eat or drink can make the liver more efficient, much less glycine alone. A few studies (such as this one) show that the livers of alcoholic rats recovered faster when the animals were fed glycine supplements, but again that's supplements, not broth—and rats, not humans. "The only thing that bone broth does to 'detoxify' is that it's a source of fluid," says Doug Kalman, a professor of sports nutrition at Florida International University. "This is not detoxification. This is normal hydration."
"I get a little peeved when I see it described as a 'healing food.'"
Claim #6: Bone broth can cure a cold. Maybe! Again, there are no studies on bone broth specifically, but some older research shows that chicken stock can calm cold symptoms. This study from 2000 found that chicken soup stops white blood cells from migrating—the mechanism that causes some of the symptoms of upper respiratory tract infections. This 1978 study found that chicken soup was better than cold or hot water at moving nasal mucous.
Claim #7: Bone broth is cheap to make regularly at home. Depends on your definition of "cheap." Bone broth enthusiasts recommend sipping the stuff daily and claim that this practice is affordable. "If you utilize all the bones from the meat you eat, you'll be getting them free," says Paleoleap. But unless you're, oh I don't know, a lion, you probably don't have enough bones to support a daily broth habit. This Epicurious recipe, which yields eight cups, calls for four pounds of beef bones, which usually run $3 to $5 a pound. Add a little more for the veggies, and you're looking at around $2 to $3 a serving. Monthly, your bone broth fix would cost around $75.
Claim #8: Bone broth tastes good. Yeah, sure. It's warm and comforting and pleasantly savory—plus it makes a great base for all kinds of soups and sauces. Which leads to another of Bellatti's points: This stuff is by no means new—cultures around the world have been slow-simmering bones in liquid for a long time. "This is something that has been around for centuries that is now being repackaged as this bold new food," he says. But "I get a little peeved when I see it described as a 'healing food'—it just sets people up for high expectations."1 -
Huh. As a vegetarian who raises chicken (I eat eggs, obviously) I have wondered if I could stomach eating the bone broth from old hens- I am not hard line opposed to eating animal products, I'd rather they get eaten than wasted. But so far, I've just offered old gals to friends. I can't stomach eating bone broth. It just.... gives me the willies.1
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angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
I just can't imagine a vegan turning "unvegan" for anything. The point to them isn't the weight loss or nutrient benefits...their point is to not contribute to any animal suffering, in any way.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
You would *think* long-term vegans would understand how to meet their nutritional needs, but some of the long-term vegans I have met have been some of the most vulnerable to dietary trends that may deprive us of the nutrients we need: things like 80/10/10, very low fat, raw dieting, eliminating processed foods, refusal to supplement or eat fortified foods, extended fasts, liquid diets, etc. Spending years depriving your body of what it needs can, sadly, have serious consequences for our health.
Agree completely....My adult daughter is a vegetarian...on the cusp of veganism....and has the worst, least healthy diet of anyone I know.0 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
I just can't imagine a vegan turning "unvegan" for anything. The point to them isn't the weight loss or nutrient benefits...their point is to not contribute to any animal suffering, in any way.
I could see it if their own health was suffering, but I can't imagine not exploring every vegan way to get the needed nutrients first. And what are the chances that one "magical" food solves all vegan problems?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
You would *think* long-term vegans would understand how to meet their nutritional needs, but some of the long-term vegans I have met have been some of the most vulnerable to dietary trends that may deprive us of the nutrients we need: things like 80/10/10, very low fat, raw dieting, eliminating processed foods, refusal to supplement or eat fortified foods, extended fasts, liquid diets, etc. Spending years depriving your body of what it needs can, sadly, have serious consequences for our health.
I would agree with this... but then again, most of the vegans that I meet are not ethical vegans, they are people following a plant based diet, and a very large number of them are bandwagoners. So I can entirely see it from that perspective.
Unfortunately, the label of vegan is a bit watered and often used to mean things other than ethical vegan, which can be very misleading to non vegans who are looking in from the outside.
That said, I don't know if any of these people fall into those categories or not as I don't care enough to read the articles, which is a bit unfair on my part as it limits the value of anything I have to say here.
But if it were for health reasons, I can understand that too. I've been vegan for a long time, and I can easily and honestly say that I was not educated and not healthy in the beginning and not really for several years in. WHen I was a baby vegan with no super powers, I often drank the kool-aid of propaganda. It took being diagnosed with my first deficiency and a doctor who was open minded and enthusiastic about research to turn me around. I only really became knowledgable about anything having to do with vegan nutrition after that time and then more so again when I decided to start bodybuilding, and even that was laughable as I flailed around for about two years before I really buckled down, got into some discussion groups and embarked on my own personal education in the matters that mattered.
When it comes to 80.10.10 and other trends like that, I've looked into them and using 80.10.10 as an example, I can't find any kind of ground for it to stand on. I've asked those that follow it so many times to help me understand what it's meant to do and the reasons/science behind the claims and at best I only get links to sites that are selling a book or a plan. I'm fairly convinced that it was entirely made up for that reason but I'd like to see some information to prove me wrong. I get asked about it often and can't give any credible advice on the issue.
@rabbitjb sorry I'm late to the party, but it didn't send me a notification when you tagged me.2 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Evidently all the vegans who gave up veganism for the broth said that their nutritional deficiencies were met by consuming the bone broth as it is high in cartilage, callogen and other nutrients that could not be met ( or at least for them). They were all very long time vegans ( which I would assume they would know where and how to get nutrients but I guess that's my assumption)
I do not really understand that perspective unless you were really ill from improper nutritional standpoint and felt this was what your body needed. But I don't see how you could bring yourself to do it ( bc it involves bones and marrow and fats of animal or something) and I read it tastes quite awful initially and I could imagine the smell.
Could a nutritional deficiency be that dire? I have read of vegans with really bad deficiencies after so many years of veganism ( 15 + years) but could that not be avoided with proper supplements or fixed?
As a new vegan I seek to be as informed as possible and learn all I can. I kept seeing these new bone broth diet type books wondering is there something to it? Some miracle nutrients? It flitted across my mind would one or should one relinquish their veganism for it? Then I started to google it and came across vegan version and vegans crossed over to this bone broth deal. My conclusion is I believe you could find these nutrients as a vegan, at the very least supplement any deficit and do you nutritional homework to get everything you need.
I just can't imagine a vegan turning "unvegan" for anything. The point to them isn't the weight loss or nutrient benefits...their point is to not contribute to any animal suffering, in any way.
I could see it if their own health was suffering, but I can't imagine not exploring every vegan way to get the needed nutrients first. And what are the chances that one "magical" food solves all vegan problems?
Exactly what I was thinking..0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
I wouldn't stop being vegan for bacon or custard or lasagna with fresh mozzarella, but at least those things are understandable. For a bowl of broth? No. This just doesn't compute.
the only thing I ever miss is sushi... and while I have fond memories of it, I'm not actually tempted by it.0
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