Vegan gone unvegan because of bone broth craze?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.0 -
But what about products (whether food or cosmetic) that are advertised as vegan? I always thought of products labeled this way as being "without animal components", but not necessarily attached to the ethics of it.janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Also, in regards to the study Wetcoaster linked to, scientific studies and anecdotal accounts do conflict. I know there are enough stories on the Internet of people who have seen tremendous health benefits once they started consuming bone broth.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
But what about products (whether food or cosmetic) that are advertised as vegan? I always thought of products labeled this way as being "without animal components", but not necessarily attached to the ethics of it.janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Also, in regards to the study Wetcoaster linked to, scientific studies and anecdotal accounts do conflict. I know there are enough stories on the Internet of people who have seen tremendous health benefits once they started consuming bone broth.
That's like saying because a food is advertised as kosher it no longer has a religious definition. That makes no sense. People market things because there is a target audience that are willing to buy products. Advertising something as vegan is just a way to try to increase sales to people who are vegan.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Interesting... Reference.com disagrees:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vegan?s=t
"a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet."
First definition is only diet. Which may or may not have ethical reasoning behind it.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Interesting... Reference.com disagrees:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vegan?s=t
"a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet."
First definition is only diet. Which may or may not have ethical reasoning behind it.
If you check a better dictionary like the OED it gives the history of the term, which is consistent with what janejellyroll said.0 -
I think, rather than use an online dictionary to define my ethical standpoint, I'll continue to go by Donald Watson, who helped create the word in 1944. His definition:
"[…] a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. "0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
Sikhs are vegetarian not vegan and not all Sikhs choose to eschew meat. In the temples I believe food served is lacto-vegetarian
I once had an argument with a catering company representative who swore blind that tuna sandwiches were vegetarian, this argument reminds me of that one
It ended with me saying...no you're wrong.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
But what about products (whether food or cosmetic) that are advertised as vegan? I always thought of products labeled this way as being "without animal components", but not necessarily attached to the ethics of it.janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Also, in regards to the study Wetcoaster linked to, scientific studies and anecdotal accounts do conflict. I know there are enough stories on the Internet of people who have seen tremendous health benefits once they started consuming bone broth.
It's a label letting people know the product is suitable for vegans.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
I would hope that nobody is eating fur, candles, leather, or wool. I'm not even sure how one would eat entertainment.
Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation. Someone avoiding animal products in the diet is on a plant-based diet.
Interesting... Reference.com disagrees:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vegan?s=t
"a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet."
First definition is only diet. Which may or may not have ethical reasoning behind it.
I'm not familiar with reference.com, so it's not that interesting to me if they disagree with the established meaning of the word. I don't know what research the people who work for that site did to come up with that definition, but Donald Watson coined the term to refer to an ethical objection to animal exploitation. If the people at reference.com want to change the meaning, that's on them.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
Sikhs are vegetarian not vegan and not all Sikhs choose to eschew meat. In the temples I believe food served is lacto-vegetarian
I once had an argument with a catering company representative who swore blind that tuna sandwiches were vegetarian, this argument reminds me of that one
It ended with me saying...no you're wrong.
Exactly. Even lacto-vegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, et al. Not always for ethics reasons, sometimes, just vegetarian for dietary reasons, is my point.
Just because some fanatics co-opted the term to require ethical backing, doesn't make it fact is my only point.0 -
coreyreichle wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
Sikhs are vegetarian not vegan and not all Sikhs choose to eschew meat. In the temples I believe food served is lacto-vegetarian
I once had an argument with a catering company representative who swore blind that tuna sandwiches were vegetarian, this argument reminds me of that one
It ended with me saying...no you're wrong.
Exactly. Even lacto-vegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, et al. Not always for ethics reasons, sometimes, just vegetarian for dietary reasons, is my point.
Just because some fanatics co-opted the term to require ethical backing, doesn't make it fact is my only point.
"Fanatics" didn't co-opt the term. They created it to describe those who object to animal exploitation -- including, but not limited to, exploiting animals for food.
The people doing the co-opting are those seeking to have the term apply to people who avoid animal products in their diet, but practice other forms of animal exploitation.1 -
coreyreichle wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »coreyreichle wrote: »OMG seriously?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
So you completely renege on an ethical decision that means you have to work hard to ensure adequate nutritional markers are met and your entire life is lived without animal by-products in order to drink soup, which has no discernible scientific benefit above the fact it's soup
Of all the cockamamie things I have ever heard
Calling @BecomingBane and @janejellyroll to comment on this one because I would like to hear their responses
Not everyone is vegan for ethical reasons.
At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.
And, not everyone eats fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, or lanolin.
Some vegans are just people who don't eat animal products (Dietary vegans, ie Sikhs).
Sikhs are vegetarian not vegan and not all Sikhs choose to eschew meat. In the temples I believe food served is lacto-vegetarian
I once had an argument with a catering company representative who swore blind that tuna sandwiches were vegetarian, this argument reminds me of that one
It ended with me saying...no you're wrong.
Exactly. Even lacto-vegetarian, lacto-ovo-vegetarian, et al. Not always for ethics reasons, sometimes, just vegetarian for dietary reasons, is my point.
Just because some fanatics co-opted the term to require ethical backing, doesn't make it fact is my only point.
Yes exactly
that's the difference between vegetarian and vegan (vegan is an ethical stance, vegetarian is a dietary one)0 -
I drink Bone Broth daily it's really helped with my skin & health in general but most of the time I'm on a plant based diet0
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Holy zombie thread.0
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[/quote]At the risk of repeating myself: People don't give up fur, beeswax candles, leather, wool, animal entertainment, and lanolin in lotion for health reasons. Veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation.[/quote]
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?0 -
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MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.0 -
I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?0 -
pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?1 -
Presumably bone broth, not meat, but I initially read that as eating meat was the trend.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
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Bone broth = soup stock... if soup is a regular part of your diet then ummm figure it out... as many animals as we consume beef, pork, chicken, lamb/ mutton, various fish, etc. People have been boiling and rendering the marrow since we crawled into caves and made use of fire. Of course you don't need chunks of an animal skeleton to make soup stock... but vegetable soup stock will obviously lack bone marrow... which is the primary benefit of simmering stock for days...
I make a 16 cup batch about every 3 months and use it instead of buying it at the store ... less salt and more vegetables and herbs... talk to your grandparents about "bone broth" i find the term laughable like some marketing genius suddenly invented it... ridiculous to even discuss the merits when it's been a cooking staple for millennia1 -
MobOfBricks wrote: »Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
I would expect most vegans would not throw away things they already own. The maximum damage to animals is done at purchase time (or more specifically, at the time when it is no longer refundable), not at the time of its use. The same goes for food, it's generally better to finish consuming any animal-containing food you have instead of throwing it away and purchasing vegan replacements.0 -
pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.0 -
MobOfBricks wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MobOfBricks wrote: »
I apologize for the hijack here but I have a question. With 12000 posts in this forum, I m sure you know what you are talking about.
I am new to veganism and I struggle with some concepts. Animal exploitation is one terrible thing; Exploitation of any kind is another.
It is hard for new people to embrace veganism when all is "black or white", "all or nothing" from a certain point of view. If I understand your point correctly, Ethics is what should prevent a vegan from consuming animal parts as jackets and lotions; is that correct?
Ethics are what would lead a vegan to reject jackets or lotions that involve animal exploitation, that's correct.
Thanks for your response.
What about the products that he/she already owns?
I understand that "parading" in the office wearing a belt made of cow skin is unethical and disgusting, but if I throw it in the trash wouldnt it become waste thus environmentally unethical?
Some vegans find new homes for items like belts (donation, giving to friends, etc) while others continue to use them until they're worn out and then buy vegan replacements. It's a personal preference, but I imagine most would agree with you that throwing it in the trash isn't a good solution. I personally wore a leather watchband for my first couple years of veganism. My intention was to use it until it wore out, but eventually I became too uncomfortable with it so I gave it to a friend who I knew would wear and enjoy it.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
Apparently so... http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/04/04/522190305/broth-loving-hipsters-are-pushing-up-the-price-of-bones0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pineapple_jojo wrote: »I'm not a vegan but I don't eat meat and no, it's a pretty disgusting idea to me. There are loads of other ways I can nourish my body without resorting to this trend.
Trend?
Yeah, OP talked about the bone broth "craze". I'd say trend is a fair synonym.
Does it exist though? I'm pretty into fitness and nutrition and am surrounded by people of the same mindset and I've never heard of anyone going mad for bone broth...it makes a good soup or stew though...my grandma and my mom always used bone broth for soups and stews.
They sell it in high priced little bottles at Whole Foods now and I've even seen it being sold at juice bars. It's a well-established food that is currently having a fad moment, like how people ate kale for years until it became a "thing."0
This discussion has been closed.
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