Cardio robs you of your lifting gains.

Char231023

I have read about this a few times mostly on BB.com. Is this true or just an excuse for lifters to skip cardio.

Commander_Keen

So what I have been told is this.
When doing hard/intense cardio it will use muscle as fuel. The way to get around that, is to eat protein. How much, would be up to you, but I don't think its anything to really worry about.

VeryKatie

Agreed, not true. Eat back the calories if the cardio brings you under maintenance. Problem solved.

Springfield1970

If you are talking in a 'bulking context' it certainly can.

It does if it prevents you from building muscle because you're constantly using it. There's cardio and there's Cardio.
A bit of light jogging should be ok on recovery days. HIIT no.

It also screws with your bulking numbers by possibly putting you at maintenance or deficit if you underestimate your numbers/and/or not eat exercise cals back (unless you're that rare person who know their exact burns because they love it so much they couldn't give it up!)

HungryasFuark

excuse no matter what they say even if u run marathons as long as u hit ur calories and macros ur good but to be to be honest if u are not into counting calories it might make u under eat because it makes u feel less hungry through the day but still not the point of starving and losing muscle . also depends if ur doing cardio to maintain ur weight or to bulk up or to lose fat . In case of losing fat i have done up to 5 hrs or more of cardio (80 min morning jog ) + dancing and walking for hours in summer ..i didn't lose any strength or size in the gym but i was eating more . the whole cardio and muscle loss is just a myth its not cardio that takes ur muscle away its a large caloric deficit + LONG cardio . think of a 5 bananas a day diet + 1 hr or 2 hr of running thats how cardio takes ur muscle away lol

jtr357

For the longest time I would do cardio then lift.Then one day I tried it the other way around.I was able to lift more weight & do more exercises,but when I went to do my cardio I could only do half of what I normally do.
You only have so much energy.You have to choose what you want to do more;burn fat with cardio or build muscle with weight training?Then do that one first.

jtr357

The optimal way to it is at separate times of day ie: weights in the morning & cardio at night or vice versa.I work 12 hours a day,so I have to get it all done at once.

Springfield1970

Op can you sepcify gains?

Are you talking 'Gains' as in 'gaining muscle mass', or bro 'Gainz'?

Char231023

I am taking about gaining muscle mass. Right now I can't lift all I can do is run. I just want to make sure I wasn't losing strength and muscle mass by only running

cwolfman13

If you're trying to actually bulk on muscle, this requires a lot of energy...when you throw on a bunch of cardio on top of that, the amount of calories required on a consistent basis to actually bulk can be overwhelming. You have to understand that these people are already eating piles of food...and already having to eat even though they may not necessarily be hungry just to keep themselves in that surplus. Most guys I know who are actively bulking keep their cardio to a minimum and mostly do a lot of walking.

As a matter of general fitness, you don't really have anything to worry about...if you're wanting to be a competitive bodybuilder then you're going to have to do a lot of things differently.

In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein.

Springfield1970

Char231023 wrote: »

I am taking about gaining muscle mass. Right now I can't lift all I can do is run. I just want to make sure I wasn't losing strength and muscle mass by only running

Are you consistent in your body weight?

HungryasFuark

.this

In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein. [/quote]

And if u are just running without lifting u will lose muscle mass

Char231023

Springfield1970 wrote: »

Char231023 wrote: »

I am taking about gaining muscle mass. Right now I can't lift all I can do is run. I just want to make sure I wasn't losing strength and muscle mass by only running

Are you consistent in your body weight?

Yes my weight pretty much stays the same.

Char231023

HungryasFuark wrote: »

.this

In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein.

And if u are just running without lifting u will lose muscle mass
[/quote]

That's what I thought. Damn you ribs.

Springfield1970

Char231023 wrote: »

HungryasFuark wrote: »

.this

In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein.

And if u are just running without lifting u will lose muscle mass

That's what I thought. Damn you ribs.[/quote]

Not necessarily true, that's why I asked if her weight was stable.

OP has your weight been stable and you've got bigger? Then yes you are losing muscle mass and gaining fat.

Are you the same size? Then don't worry.

Are you smaller? Then congrats, you've gained muscle and lost fat- basically recomped.

How does that change things? Or not..

sijomial

Muscle isn't fuel - your body isn't going to burn muscle by doing cardio unless you have a totally inappropriate calorie deficit or awful nutrition.
BB.com must be about the worst place to get information on cardio and its affects on the body.

ndj1979

Char231023 wrote: »

I am taking about gaining muscle mass. Right now I can't lift all I can do is run. I just want to make sure I wasn't losing strength and muscle mass by only running

as long as you at maintenance level calories you should not be losing any muscle...

Char231023

Thanks everybody

senecarr

To an extent yes. Particularly, getting better at cardio can reduce your ability to get better at lifting.
By Menlo Henselmans of Bayesian Bodybuilding: http://www.humanengine.com/index.php/articles/training/item/the-cardio-comedown?category_id=2

caurinus

You can avoid losing muscle, even while on a calorie deficit, with full body exercise and eating enough protein. Can you swim? If you're not losing weight, you probably don't have much to worry about, just make sure you eat plenty of protein.

Springfield1970

sijomial wrote: »

Muscle isn't fuel - your body isn't going to burn muscle by doing cardio unless you have a totally inappropriate calorie deficit or awful nutrition.
BB.com must be about the worst place to get information on cardio and its affects on the body.

This is just an idea I have, from experience, just wondered what you thought.

As an older woman, but still of childbearing age, I'm sure it personally doesn't take much of a deficit for my body to turn to muscle for fuel. I swear that's what happened in my early tri training, when I was swinging slowly from under cutting and bingeing from not tracking calories before I found MFP. I was unfit, and training far too high into my heart rate zones.

I even think my body prefers to burn muscle than fat. It would make sense biologically re pregnancy etc.

ndj1979

caurinus wrote: »

You can avoid losing muscle, even while on a calorie deficit, with full body exercise and eating enough protein. Can you swim? If you're not losing weight, you probably don't have much to worry about, just make sure you eat plenty of protein.

actually you can't..

you can have perfect training and macros and one will still lose some muscle in a calorie deficit…..

robertw486

I'd see it as a statement that applies only to people at the extremes of bias towards one thing or another, with most of us not falling into that category. Done wrong, any energy spent towards other than the primary goal can impact that primary goal. Done right with a proper training and diet structure designed around end goals of compromise that most of us accept, probably the vast majority of people could improve at both cardio and strength gains at the same time.

At the two extreme ends of the spectrum, one hurts the other. Elite marathoners or endurance athletes could easily bulk some, but it would obviously impact their run times. Elite power lifter types could easily do more cardio at the expense of their lifting. The truth is that most of us aren't in any elite category.

When I was in the military cardio wasn't optional. Plenty of people put on quite a bit of muscle while still not having the option to reduce cardio training. I experienced some loss of my cardio base due to strength training and changed my focus and goals, but it was more a matter of career focus and not having the ability to do both on my own schedule. Some others simply changed their training methods better than I did and made the adjustments to improve at both.

In reality... most of the things holding people back are lack of drive. We all have differing levels of motivation, time constraints, and where the goals fit into out life. I could improve on both my cardio and strength levels, but what I chose to do is find the overall life balance that works for me, and accept my compromise.

JoshLibby

1. Determine what is cardio.
2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
4. What one fits me better as an individual?

I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.

Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.



I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.

spacecadetz06

Boxers run for miles and look massive. Diet determines the outcome imo. Look at rugby players they are huge and I doubt they ease of the cardio.

Springfield1970

spacecadetz06 wrote: »

Boxers run for miles and look massive. Diet determines the outcome imo. Look at rugby players they are huge and I doubt they ease of the cardio.

Agreed, but there may be Periodization going on. Ie, bulking over off season, less cardio, more weights, then maybe cutting in the period leading up to the season.

kay_norton

Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go

-Kay

Springfield1970

They're discussing lifting gains though.......

ClosetBayesian

kay_norton wrote: »

Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go

-Kay

Lots of us have graduate degrees in science fields. We can handle the technical terms.

senecarr

kay_norton wrote: »

Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go

-Kay

Actually it can happen even for similar conditioning sports like sprinting or cycling with weight lifting.
And it isn't simply the muscle fiber differences:

These adaptations include local changes in muscle fiber type composition and speed of muscle activation, but also central changes in cellular pathway signaling, gene activation and enzyme concentrations7,8,9. For example, protein kinase B/Akt (PKB) decreases protein breakdown and activates protein synthesis, making its presence very desirable for muscle gains. AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) increases mitochondrial protein, glucose transport, and a number of other factors that result in increased endurance and cardiorespiratory fitness. The problem is, AMPK and PKB block each other's downstream signaling10.

Now those are all technical terms so as a non kinesiology major, I just know they're fancy words kino's use.

lynn_glenmont

Char231023 wrote: »

HungryasFuark wrote: »

.this

In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein.

And if u are just running without lifting u will lose muscle mass

That's what I thought. Damn you ribs.[/quote]

If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running. If you want to maintain muscle mass, you need to lift, get enough protein, and eat at maintenance (or at a small deficit that you can easily fuel from your fat stores -- if you're already lean, this is pretty difficult). So there's really no point to not running just because you have something (rib injury?) that is preventing you from lifting--assuming that running is advised in your current state of recovery from your injury.