Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Cardio robs you of your lifting gains.
Replies
-
You can avoid losing muscle, even while on a calorie deficit, with full body exercise and eating enough protein. Can you swim? If you're not losing weight, you probably don't have much to worry about, just make sure you eat plenty of protein.
actually you can't..
you can have perfect training and macros and one will still lose some muscle in a calorie deficit…..0 -
I'd see it as a statement that applies only to people at the extremes of bias towards one thing or another, with most of us not falling into that category. Done wrong, any energy spent towards other than the primary goal can impact that primary goal. Done right with a proper training and diet structure designed around end goals of compromise that most of us accept, probably the vast majority of people could improve at both cardio and strength gains at the same time.
At the two extreme ends of the spectrum, one hurts the other. Elite marathoners or endurance athletes could easily bulk some, but it would obviously impact their run times. Elite power lifter types could easily do more cardio at the expense of their lifting. The truth is that most of us aren't in any elite category.
When I was in the military cardio wasn't optional. Plenty of people put on quite a bit of muscle while still not having the option to reduce cardio training. I experienced some loss of my cardio base due to strength training and changed my focus and goals, but it was more a matter of career focus and not having the ability to do both on my own schedule. Some others simply changed their training methods better than I did and made the adjustments to improve at both.
In reality... most of the things holding people back are lack of drive. We all have differing levels of motivation, time constraints, and where the goals fit into out life. I could improve on both my cardio and strength levels, but what I chose to do is find the overall life balance that works for me, and accept my compromise.1 -
1. Determine what is cardio.
2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
4. What one fits me better as an individual?
I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.
Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.
I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.
0 -
Boxers run for miles and look massive. Diet determines the outcome imo. Look at rugby players they are huge and I doubt they ease of the cardio.0
-
spacecadetz06 wrote: »Boxers run for miles and look massive. Diet determines the outcome imo. Look at rugby players they are huge and I doubt they ease of the cardio.
Agreed, but there may be Periodization going on. Ie, bulking over off season, less cardio, more weights, then maybe cutting in the period leading up to the season.1 -
Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go
-Kay0 -
They're discussing lifting gains though.......0
-
kay_norton wrote: »Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go
-Kay
Lots of us have graduate degrees in science fields. We can handle the technical terms.0 -
kay_norton wrote: »Not true!
You don't really need to worry about that unless you are a competitive athlete. The research shows that athletes who compete in more aerobic sports (like runners in track mostly) to weight train in addition to their cardio because it enhances their abilities. However, the research shows that if a more anaerobic athlete (someone who plays basketball, or hockey for instance), were to train aerobically during their season (in other words, do a lot of cardio), their abilities would be hindered and their performance would be less powerful.
It's a really interesting concept having to do with muscle fibers and a whole bunch of physiological stuff but I won't bore you with that.
Bottom line is if you're trying to lose weight and get it in shape, both is the way to go
-Kay
Actually it can happen even for similar conditioning sports like sprinting or cycling with weight lifting.
And it isn't simply the muscle fiber differences:
Now those are all technical terms so as a non kinesiology major, I just know they're fancy words kino's use.These adaptations include local changes in muscle fiber type composition and speed of muscle activation, but also central changes in cellular pathway signaling, gene activation and enzyme concentrations7,8,9. For example, protein kinase B/Akt (PKB) decreases protein breakdown and activates protein synthesis, making its presence very desirable for muscle gains. AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) increases mitochondrial protein, glucose transport, and a number of other factors that result in increased endurance and cardiorespiratory fitness. The problem is, AMPK and PKB block each other's downstream signaling10.0 -
Char231023 wrote: »HungryasFuark wrote: ».this
In RE to cardio burning up muscle, this can happen...but it's generally when a lot of cardio is being done without adequate fueling and adequate protein.
And if u are just running without lifting u will lose muscle mass
That's what I thought. Damn you ribs.[/quote]
If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running. If you want to maintain muscle mass, you need to lift, get enough protein, and eat at maintenance (or at a small deficit that you can easily fuel from your fat stores -- if you're already lean, this is pretty difficult). So there's really no point to not running just because you have something (rib injury?) that is preventing you from lifting--assuming that running is advised in your current state of recovery from your injury.0 -
Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
For the most part, it's an overused old wives tale. Loads of people have never lifted in their entire life, yet they don't turn to dust and blow away. Lifting in deficit helps retain muscle, but for many people their daily activity helps retain muscle.
People that give too much weight to the input of people who have lifted heavy and are lifting during cuts take that info and skew it into a need for every person.
People develop the muscle they have through the activities they do, and they retain it the same way. With greater age and/or during deficit it's easier to lose muscle, but it's not as if someone who has never lifted suddenly has to go hit the gym either.1 -
robertw486 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?lynn_glenmont wrote: »If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
For the most part, it's an overused old wives tale. Loads of people have never lifted in their entire life, yet they don't turn to dust and blow away. Lifting in deficit helps retain muscle, but for many people their daily activity helps retain muscle.
People normally lose muscle mass as they age, unless they make an effort to retain it. Weight bearing exercise (broader than lifting) can help counteract that. It can make a big difference to how healthy vs frail you are as you age. (It can also help a lot with bone density, which is a particular issue for aging women.)
The various BMI estimations reflect that. Some discussions of the topic:
http://aginginmotion.org/news/new-research-shows-muscle-loss-is-not-inevitable/
http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/sarcopenia-with-aging
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-28/features/sns-201211281830--tms--foodstylts--v-f20121128-20121128_1_muscle-loss-protein-declines
http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/is-age-related-muscle-loss-reversible
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/02/13/older-adults-double-your-protein-intake-for-better-health0 -
HITT cardio does not effect it. Steady state cardio can.0
-
danamalensky wrote: »HITT cardio does not effect it. Steady state cardio can.
HIIT cardio can most certainly affect it. HIIT (if done properly) is extremely taxing upon the CNS, which can impair recovery, which is when muscle growth actually takes place. LISS is far less taxing than HIIT, but neither should be overdone if LBM gains are the main goal.0 -
OP, you would have more concerns if you are losing weight.
If you were lifting before your injury, and now you aren't, you will lose strength. And since you aren't losing weight, there is less probably of losing any type of muscle.0 -
1. Determine what is cardio.
2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
4. What one fits me better as an individual?
I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.
Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.
I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.
Love your advice !!0 -
I do both and love both. While training for my latest half marathon I got my weekly mileage up to over 50 for a few weeks. I lift weights 3-4 times a week.
While my back squat decreased a bit, both my snatch, clean & jerk improved (but this is probably due to a focus on technique more than strength). However, my overhead squat, over head press, push-press, clean/snatch pulls, deadlifts all remained the same or got stronger).
I have worked myself up to this craziness over years and probably wouldn't recommend my schedule to anyone. However, I think most can, and should, do both (with the obvious caveats of elite athletes, they should listen to their coaches).
0 -
1. Determine what is cardio.
2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
4. What one fits me better as an individual?
I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.
Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.
I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.
What now?
Personally, I was training with heavy weights and for running half marathon distances because I wanted to keep getting stronger and more stable while increasing my endurance. For context, I started with lifting and much later picked up running.
I found that lifting heavy weights and low reps was less exhausting overall than working in either bodybuilding or endurance rep ranges. It took less time. I was able to continue making PRs in strength and time/distance.
I also found that I felt better doing heavy leg day on my long run day and keeping a couple of days a week as total rest days - no weights or running. I had no set rule for which workout came first, but they were separated by at least 4hrs, and usually 8-12hrs.
For me, that schedule worked well in the physical sense, but I've not been able to make the time to keep up with it for a while. I notice the difference in the stabilization while running the most.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 901 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions