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Cardio robs you of your lifting gains.

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Replies

  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited March 2016
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
    Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,399 Member
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
    Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?

    For the most part, it's an overused old wives tale. Loads of people have never lifted in their entire life, yet they don't turn to dust and blow away. Lifting in deficit helps retain muscle, but for many people their daily activity helps retain muscle.

    People that give too much weight to the input of people who have lifted heavy and are lifting during cuts take that info and skew it into a need for every person.


    People develop the muscle they have through the activities they do, and they retain it the same way. With greater age and/or during deficit it's easier to lose muscle, but it's not as if someone who has never lifted suddenly has to go hit the gym either.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited March 2016
    robertw486 wrote: »
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    If you don't lift, you will, over time, lose muscle mass regardless of whether you are running.
    Assuming an adequate protein intake, isn't that just for those who are who are over a certain age?

    For the most part, it's an overused old wives tale. Loads of people have never lifted in their entire life, yet they don't turn to dust and blow away. Lifting in deficit helps retain muscle, but for many people their daily activity helps retain muscle.

    People normally lose muscle mass as they age, unless they make an effort to retain it. Weight bearing exercise (broader than lifting) can help counteract that. It can make a big difference to how healthy vs frail you are as you age. (It can also help a lot with bone density, which is a particular issue for aging women.)

    The various BMI estimations reflect that. Some discussions of the topic:

    http://aginginmotion.org/news/new-research-shows-muscle-loss-is-not-inevitable/

    http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/sarcopenia-with-aging

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-11-28/features/sns-201211281830--tms--foodstylts--v-f20121128-20121128_1_muscle-loss-protein-declines

    http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/is-age-related-muscle-loss-reversible

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/02/13/older-adults-double-your-protein-intake-for-better-health
  • danamalensky
    danamalensky Posts: 3 Member
    HITT cardio does not effect it. Steady state cardio can.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    danamalensky wrote: »
    HITT cardio does not effect it. Steady state cardio can.

    HIIT cardio can most certainly affect it. HIIT (if done properly) is extremely taxing upon the CNS, which can impair recovery, which is when muscle growth actually takes place. LISS is far less taxing than HIIT, but neither should be overdone if LBM gains are the main goal.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    OP, you would have more concerns if you are losing weight.

    If you were lifting before your injury, and now you aren't, you will lose strength. And since you aren't losing weight, there is less probably of losing any type of muscle.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    psulemon wrote: »
    OP, you would have more concerns if you are losing weight.

    If you were lifting before your injury, and now you aren't, you will lose strength. And since you aren't losing weight, there is less probably of losing any type of muscle.

    100% this.
  • lizzelspark
    lizzelspark Posts: 178 Member
    JoshLibby wrote: »
    1. Determine what is cardio.
    2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
    3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
    4. What one fits me better as an individual?

    I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.

    Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.



    I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.

    Love your advice !!
  • WakkoW
    WakkoW Posts: 567 Member
    I do both and love both. While training for my latest half marathon I got my weekly mileage up to over 50 for a few weeks. I lift weights 3-4 times a week.

    While my back squat decreased a bit, both my snatch, clean & jerk improved (but this is probably due to a focus on technique more than strength). However, my overhead squat, over head press, push-press, clean/snatch pulls, deadlifts all remained the same or got stronger).

    I have worked myself up to this craziness over years and probably wouldn't recommend my schedule to anyone. However, I think most can, and should, do both (with the obvious caveats of elite athletes, they should listen to their coaches).
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    JoshLibby wrote: »
    1. Determine what is cardio.
    2. Look at people who lift weights and do cardio are they still making gains? If they are making gains how would a person even determine if the cardio affected the gains?
    3. Try an experiment on myself to see if I did more cardio would I lose muscle and be robbed of gains. Log it then do the opposite with less cardio.
    4. What one fits me better as an individual?

    I think the problem with cardio, is if we talk about long distance running why would a person be training with heavy weights? I am talking 80% of their one rep max and doing long distance running. That training makes no sense for that person's particular goals. Does the person do cardio before working out, that matters? It will rob the energy the subject would use if they also hit weights, so if they did cardio second, more energy could be used for the weight training.

    Cardio is just too broad of a word and all kinds of variables make it hard to know what will happen, but I still think a person should try it out on their own environment, if it makes them less effective on their goal it will be true for them, but I do not believe just because a person does cardio they will lose muscle, if that is what is being implied, the only way I could see that happening if they stopped lifting and did just cardio, but that goes against the question, so the obvious answer is no.



    I will say in my experience cardio is great for all types of goals but like robertw486 said, it depends on how in depth those goals are and the drive of that person with those goals. People who have the time and train hard will get gains regardless of goals. Look at FootBall players, as long as you lift you will keep your muscle. Marathon runners are usually smaller because they don't lift heavy weights to gain muscle, they are just focusing on running. However, sprinters are lean with lots of muscle, because they need both power and speed. Does this even help. LOL it's all opinion.

    What now?

    Personally, I was training with heavy weights and for running half marathon distances because I wanted to keep getting stronger and more stable while increasing my endurance. For context, I started with lifting and much later picked up running.

    I found that lifting heavy weights and low reps was less exhausting overall than working in either bodybuilding or endurance rep ranges. It took less time. I was able to continue making PRs in strength and time/distance.

    I also found that I felt better doing heavy leg day on my long run day and keeping a couple of days a week as total rest days - no weights or running. I had no set rule for which workout came first, but they were separated by at least 4hrs, and usually 8-12hrs.

    For me, that schedule worked well in the physical sense, but I've not been able to make the time to keep up with it for a while. I notice the difference in the stabilization while running the most.
  • jmt08c
    jmt08c Posts: 343 Member
    Cardio is an important part of any fitness plan and done correctly in conjunction with weight training can lead to greater strength gains than weight lifting alone. If your goals are to gain muscle mass then train for that in your cardio workout too by doing suicides, sled pushes, box jumps, sprint rows etc. Too often people confine cardio to simple running or biking.
  • nash_ap
    nash_ap Posts: 5 Member
    Char231023 wrote: »
    I have read about this a few times mostly on BB.com. Is this true or just an excuse for lifters to skip cardio.

    As long as you're on a caloric surplus, your fine. However, if you're maintaining your caloric intake or on a caloric deficit, then you will lose all kinds of gains.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    nash_ap wrote: »
    Char231023 wrote: »
    I have read about this a few times mostly on BB.com. Is this true or just an excuse for lifters to skip cardio.

    As long as you're on a caloric surplus, your fine. However, if you're maintaining your caloric intake or on a caloric deficit, then you will lose all kinds of gains.

    Cool science bro.

    Too bad no one told Terry Crews. He runs 4 miles every morning.
    terry-crews-feature-0215.jpg
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    nash_ap wrote: »
    Char231023 wrote: »
    I have read about this a few times mostly on BB.com. Is this true or just an excuse for lifters to skip cardio.

    As long as you're on a caloric surplus, your fine. However, if you're maintaining your caloric intake or on a caloric deficit, then you will lose all kinds of gains.
    Sorry but that's absolute twaddle. My lifts only improved and I also pushed my cardio to new PB's including my first 100 mile cycle while losing weight.
    Bench press up 50% while losing 7lbs of weight.

    It's not that hard to at least maintain your muscle in a calorie deficit for people who aren't at their training peak - it's simply not the case that deficit automatically = muscle loss.

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,982 Member
    Commander_Keen wrote: »
    So what I have been told is this.
    When doing hard/intense cardio it will use muscle as fuel. The way to get around that, is to eat protein. How much, would be up to you, but I don't think its anything to really worry about.
    Whether one does intense cardio or moderate cardio, the primary fuel is glycogen. The body WON'T use amino acids as fuel until the body is depleted of glycogen and that takes quite an effort. Someone who's losing weight at a moderate calorie deficit shouldn't have any issues as long as there's enough protein even if they are just primarily doing cardio.
    People lose muscle for a couple of reasons: a deficit that likely exceeds 2% body weight loss and inadequate amount protein to support muscle support.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    nash_ap wrote: »
    Char231023 wrote: »
    I have read about this a few times mostly on BB.com. Is this true or just an excuse for lifters to skip cardio.

    As long as you're on a caloric surplus, your fine. However, if you're maintaining your caloric intake or on a caloric deficit, then you will lose all kinds of gains.
    Sorry but that's absolute twaddle. My lifts only improved and I also pushed my cardio to new PB's including my first 100 mile cycle while losing weight.
    Bench press up 50% while losing 7lbs of weight.

    It's not that hard to at least maintain your muscle in a calorie deficit for people who aren't at their training peak - it's simply not the case that deficit automatically = muscle loss.

    At age 56 and sustaining an average calorie deficit of almost 1900 cal/day for over 5 months, I had no problem setting PRs in all my lifts and lifting much heavier weights than when I was in my 20s and 30s.

    At age 62, I have lost 35 lbs since January, with virtually no muscle loss and no strength training whatsoever (lack of lifting not my choice).

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