Abstain from problem foods or indulge for weight loss?
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I occasionally eat trigger foods. Cake or dessert at birthdays, celebrations, that kind of thing. Sometimes I am feeling especially "fierce" and have a treat when I'm alone (dangerous territory). But mostly I get my sweetness in forms that are highly unlikely to trigger a binge: fibre one bar, Clif builder bar, sugar in my tea, square of dark chocolate etc. I've also "abused" sweet treats on occasion still. The big difference being that I pick myself up and dust myself off MUCH faster than I ever did before. You'd think feeling guilty about it helps. It doesn't.0
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I've had to do both. One part finding an alternative food to satisfy my craving, and then still occasionally allowing myself to have that one food that I really want but only at a "cheat" meal.
For example, going out with the guys - I'll have a vodka and tonic, scotch (neat) or wine. On the rare occasion of a cheat meal, I'll have that really tasty craft beer (or two.)
Craving something sweet? I'll drink some water with Mio, or make sure to add something strongly flavored like lemon juice to my next meal.
Finding alternatives to my cravings are the only things that have helped. As you said, everyone is different though.0 -
ebtaylor137 wrote: »It seems like there are in general two schools of thought on problem foods, either avoid problem foods completely, or eat whatever you want but stay within your weight loss calorie goals. What has worked for others?
I feel like I've tried both and had issues with either. When I abstain I crumple catastrophically or when I indulge I get a taste and can't stop. What has worked for others?
I think the "eat whatever you want" often gets misinterpreted to mean that there's really no structure or plan in place and that people aren't paying attention to their nutrition and that they're just going around eating "junk" but staying within their targets.
In most cases, this simply is not true...in many, if not most cases, the people who are doing this are eating pretty well for the most part and have overall pretty nutritious diets...but they might have a little ice cream for desert or a cookie after lunch or some pizza because it's Friday night, etc.
That said, I think there can be some benefit to abstaining from something for a time if you really are having issues moderating that particular food item. For me, that was soda. I stopped drinking it altogether for awhile as I was a 3-5x per day soda drinker back in the day. I might have 5 or 6 sodas a year now.
I also think "abstain" or "indulge" is probably not the best way of looking at things as you are using two different extremes on the spectrum when there's this whole middle area to consider.0 -
I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....0 -
Most things, I can do a little of and it's ok.
But there were 3 things I had to cut out for a while. Nachos, chips, and pasta. Because of the mental game - I couldn't control myself.
But at some point I had to learn how to incorporate those back in. Nothing is "out of bounds" forever. It's a process. Out of bounds for now is different than out of bounds forever. But I still made sure to add them back in while I was at a deficit. Don't want to go back to my original diet and gain it all back. Need to learn it now.0 -
I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
Yep. Not sure who would suggest otherwise.
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For me personally, I have to stay focused on not giving in to splurges or treats. That way of thinking is what got me here. Oh the sun came up! SPLURGE! Oh I did Zumba! REWARD! It just does not work for me to have it. I am just starting on cutting out but I know I will still eat certain things as long as they fit into my calories. Just no more seconds or splurges and rewarding myself with food.0
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Maybe try to substitute your trigger food with something else? At this point, moderation works for me. But a couple of years ago it didn't, and what worked for me then was to only buy a tiny amount of that particular food at a time. That way, once I'd eaten a reasonable amount, there would be no more left in the house.
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Personally I'm still working on this question. I've gone back and forth. I tend to overindulge when I have pre-packaged snacks in my house (chips, cookies, ice cream, etc). I'd really like to reach a point where I can just measure out a portion, and leave it at that, and I have, at times, been able to do that, but I'm not consistent with it yet. I'm a strong believer in moderation, but for now I'm going to be not buying any of those snacky items for my house. It's much easier to eat them in moderation if I can only get them at work or a family member's house. I figure it will help me find my personal golden ratio of satiating macros too if I have to focus more on whole foods and eating more fruit/veg.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
I made the identical argument in a post I started maybe a month back. As I recall, you were one of the individuals who took issue with it.
In fairness, I did use the term "bad foods". However, my intention was just to say that there are foods that I believe are "bad" for me-but maybe not for you. But once I used the term "bad" people responded as though I was threatening to rip their favorite snack out of their hands. The whole discussion became pretty bizarre....0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
I made the identical argument in a post I started maybe a month back. As I recall, you were one of the individuals who took issue with it.
In fairness, I did use the term "bad foods". However, my intention was just to say that there are foods that I believe are "bad" for me-but maybe not for you. But once I used the term "bad" people responded as though I was threatening to rip their favorite snack out of their hands. The whole discussion became pretty bizarre....
Because those are different statements, and I remember your thread.
In this thread, you said you didn't enjoy the taste of them. I don't like beets, I don't eat beets. That doesn't mean they are bad for me or anyone. Yes, it's a semantical argument that will never die on these forums.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
I made the identical argument in a post I started maybe a month back. As I recall, you were one of the individuals who took issue with it.
In fairness, I did use the term "bad foods". However, my intention was just to say that there are foods that I believe are "bad" for me-but maybe not for you. But once I used the term "bad" people responded as though I was threatening to rip their favorite snack out of their hands. The whole discussion became pretty bizarre....
There's an enormous difference between these three positions:
(1) Never eat [insert food here], it's a bad food. This is a claim for everyone.
(2) I don't agree that I can eat what I want within my calories [note: remember what I said above, eating what you want doesn't mean ignoring satiety and nutrition and trade-offs--of course these things determine, in part, what you want]. I have to cut out [insert food here], because it is BAD FOR ME. Telling people calories are what matter is therefore BAD ADVICE. (This is exactly what you asserted in your OP in the other thread and what people, including me, were arguing with.)
(3) In having limited calories, of course tradeoffs have to be made. I find room for foods I really love in my calorie allotment and in the context of an overall balanced and nutritious and satisfying diet, but of course I am mindful and don't waste calories on low nutrient items I don't really care about. This is what you seem to be saying above, and what several others have said and I think everyone would agree with. I didn't eat (American) chips much before dieting, because I don't really like them and I dislike eating out of a greasy bag, but I certainly don't waste calories on them now that my calories are limited. I'd rather save them for the rare fish and chips or some other high cal thing I do love. But of course this doesn't mean I don't eat what I want within my calories or think chips are a "bad food." That would be silly.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
I made the identical argument in a post I started maybe a month back. As I recall, you were one of the individuals who took issue with it.
In fairness, I did use the term "bad foods". However, my intention was just to say that there are foods that I believe are "bad" for me-but maybe not for you. But once I used the term "bad" people responded as though I was threatening to rip their favorite snack out of their hands. The whole discussion became pretty bizarre....
There's an enormous difference between these three positions:
(1) Never eat [insert food here], it's a bad food. This is a claim for everyone.
(2) I don't agree that I can eat what I want within my calories [note: remember what I said above, eating what you want doesn't mean ignoring satiety and nutrition and trade-offs--of course these things determine, in part, what you want]. I have to cut out [insert food here], because it is BAD FOR ME. Telling people calories are what matter is therefore BAD ADVICE. (This is exactly what you asserted in your OP in the other thread and what people, including me, were arguing with.)
(3) In having limited calories, of course tradeoffs have to be made. I find room for foods I really love in my calorie allotment and in the context of an overall balanced and nutritious and satisfying diet, but of course I am mindful and don't waste calories on low nutrient items I don't really care about. This is what you seem to be saying above, and what several others have said and I think everyone would agree with. I didn't eat (American) chips much before dieting, because I don't really like them and I dislike eating out of a greasy bag, but I certainly don't waste calories on them now that my calories are limited. I'd rather save them for the rare fish and chips or some other high cal thing I do love. But of course this doesn't mean I don't eat what I want within my calories or think chips are a "bad food." That would be silly.
Calories are all that matter when it comes to weight loss. I would never argue against that.0 -
Before I started MFP, I had a strong determination that I would not be changing my habits if it meant never having the things I like ever again. I was more than happy to continue slowly gaining weight if it meant I didn't have to give up pizza/icecream/chips etc. forever.
Then, one day, I learnt about calorie counting. It was no longer about "eating clean" which for me, was about eating nothing you like to ensure you lost weight. Calorie counting made it so black and white - this is the goal and you need to meet it. No "superfoods" or "personal trainers hate this one magic tip" etc.
So I still eat whatever I want. I just eat to my calorie goal. AND if I do have a day (or couple of days) where I blow my calorie budget for whatever reason, it's very simple to get back on track as I know how easily the "damage" can be negated.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I have learned that this is not a respected opinion here; but I think we all need to find plans that work for us.
There ARE some foods that I enjoy so much that life would be very grey if I had to live without them. A really good pizza, pasta, and Cajun food are three such examples. I have done well in integrating these into a successful program.
Then there is a category that includes simple carb/salty snacks. I actually don't think they taste all that great; but when I eat them my food cravings seem to increase and I desire to overeat them. Life is fine without these items; so I decide to put them aside. When I did that I stopped even wanting them.
Doing this helped me a great deal; but according to the MFP gospel, it's not an approach I should ever suggest to someone else.
Anyways, my honest answer is that people succeed using a variety of approaches. I do think that anyone who thinks they have to succeed by switching to a bland diet is making things unnecessarily tough.
Now time to start making my porterhouse steaks with roasted red pepper salsa.....
Avoiding calorie-dense foods that don't taste that great to you and don't add any real enjoyment to your life is actually a pretty common approach here. I'm not sure why you think that isn't respected. I think you would find that most people here who have been successful have adopted that plan.
I made the identical argument in a post I started maybe a month back. As I recall, you were one of the individuals who took issue with it.
In fairness, I did use the term "bad foods". However, my intention was just to say that there are foods that I believe are "bad" for me-but maybe not for you. But once I used the term "bad" people responded as though I was threatening to rip their favorite snack out of their hands. The whole discussion became pretty bizarre....
There's an enormous difference between these three positions:
(1) Never eat [insert food here], it's a bad food. This is a claim for everyone.
(2) I don't agree that I can eat what I want within my calories [note: remember what I said above, eating what you want doesn't mean ignoring satiety and nutrition and trade-offs--of course these things determine, in part, what you want]. I have to cut out [insert food here], because it is BAD FOR ME. Telling people calories are what matter is therefore BAD ADVICE. (This is exactly what you asserted in your OP in the other thread and what people, including me, were arguing with.)
(3) In having limited calories, of course tradeoffs have to be made. I find room for foods I really love in my calorie allotment and in the context of an overall balanced and nutritious and satisfying diet, but of course I am mindful and don't waste calories on low nutrient items I don't really care about. This is what you seem to be saying above, and what several others have said and I think everyone would agree with. I didn't eat (American) chips much before dieting, because I don't really like them and I dislike eating out of a greasy bag, but I certainly don't waste calories on them now that my calories are limited. I'd rather save them for the rare fish and chips or some other high cal thing I do love. But of course this doesn't mean I don't eat what I want within my calories or think chips are a "bad food." That would be silly.
Calories are all that matter when it comes to weight loss. I would never argue against that.
As I recall the other thread, it started as a scold of people who said "calories are all that matter," because we didn't consider that people might sensibly reduce or eliminate foods for individual reasons (because they were "bad for them") having to do with trigger responses or satiety.
As I and others argued, that doesn't make it bad advice, because of course within "eat what you want within your calorie" any sensible adult will be making judgments about nutrition, satiety, and tradeoffs (are those M&Ms worth it if I can't have cheese or skin on my chicken? IMO, no way, but that doesn't mean I'm cutting out M7Ms--they just don't typically make the cut).
It was probably a bunch of misunderstandings, as I tried to explain in that thread, but it did start out scoldy and plus lots of people hate the "bad food" thing. That does not mean that anyone thinks people shouldn't make judgments about what foods are worth it for them.0 -
I fall down if I have trigger foods in the house0
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I find it easier to stick to my calorie range if I keep the "junk" out of the house. By junk I mean Doritos and gummy bears. I find it very hard to moderate those things. When I'm really craving them, I just plan for the splurge to make it fit or accept that I am going over my calories that day.
What I find worse is those days that we eat out or have friends over or go to friends houses... Those are my worst calorie days because I can't judge the calories correctly so I just say screw it and eat whatever. I still log it as best as I can, but it means I'm wayyy over.
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I still eat all my problem foods. I want to be able to control myself, because I'm here for the long run, and I can't receive a bunch of chocolate muffins and just put on 5kgs in a week! There's food I enjoy everywhere. Need to enjoy it responsibly, is all.0
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I try to avoid foods that don't fit in my plan unless it's "rare and appropriate," like if I'm seeing a friend I haven't in ages or there's another major event going on. The thought process is that "You know what? I can have this literally any time. It's not a big deal to go to the store for it later. I don't need this right now."0
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