Paleo based diet?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »(although much as I dislike Taco Bell I seriously doubt that claim). It's also plain greek yogurt, canned tomatoes, dried pasta, smoked salmon, the best local cheeses, a very healthy pre-made paleo meal from https://www.kitchfix.com/ (yes, paleo can be a money-maker for some!).
Some scientists did a simple study, leaving a Taco Bell meal out for 2 years, it never looked any different, but doubt away. I think you know what is meant by "processed foods". Also, nice spam there.
Okay, I looked it up. Apparently not scientists and not a study -- a chiropractor left out the food to make an argument to her "patients." It was dried out. Here's more: https://skepticalteacher.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/the-myth-of-the-non-decomposing-mcdonalds-hamburger/0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »(although much as I dislike Taco Bell I seriously doubt that claim). It's also plain greek yogurt, canned tomatoes, dried pasta, smoked salmon, the best local cheeses, a very healthy pre-made paleo meal from https://www.kitchfix.com/ (yes, paleo can be a money-maker for some!).
Some scientists did a simple study, leaving a Taco Bell meal out for 2 years, it never looked any different, but doubt away. I think you know what is meant by "processed foods". Also, nice spam there.
Are you talking about this? http://www.businessinsider.com/fast-food-doesnt-rot-after-2-years-2015-1
That was a display in a chiropractor's office. It wasn't a scientific study.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Today I will include the following processed foods in my diet -- tomato paste, nutritional yeast, canned chickpeas, olive oil, tofu, dark chocolate, and coffee.
Foods should be judged on their own merit, not by whether or not they have undergone processing. I can easily pick up a can of tomato paste, a bag of coffee beans, or a block of tofu and look at the information on the label and determine for myself whether or not it should be part of my diet. I don't need to reject it just because it is processed.
Whoa, again. Coffee? Olive oil? Where do you get the idea these are processed foods? When you look at the ingredients on a can of chick peas if it says "water, chick peas" then it's not a processed food. Don't take the term processed so literally. As far as determining what should be in your eating intake, just referencing the nutrition label is quite a good idea, helps with avoiding many things.
Avoiding processed foods is still a good idea, and you seem to do the same thing. It can't be done altogether very easily, but it can be mitigated.
So your argument is that processing a food doesn't make it processed. Can you share how you're defining "processed" so we can proceed with the conversation? If tofu and olive oil aren't processed, how do you mean the word?
I don't avoid processed foods at all. They form a large part of my diet, as I shared above. Pressing a fruit or vegetable for oil is processing. Grinding soybeans and coagulating the milk is processing. Drying, roasting, and grinding a coffee bean is processing.0 -
I'll throw this in to the semantics :-(gg) The term “processed food” means any food other than a raw agricultural commodity and includes any raw agricultural commodity that has been subject to processing, such as canning, cooking, freezing, dehydration, or milling.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htmhttps://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htm0 -
The use of "processed" on MFP, as well as the assumption that it's "bad" has been confusing for me since I started. Part of it is that even before losing weight I didn't eat many of the things people seem to be referring to (boxed mash potatoes, frozen meals, Twinkies, fast food, stuff like that). So that wasn't the first thing I thought of at all, but instead the processed foods I personally eat (cottage cheese, smoked salmon, tofu, plain greek yogurt, protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, etc.). I'm not sure under what interpretation of "processed" those foods would not be included.
Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?
I would genuinely like a response to this, as I am TIRED of people talking past each other. For me, even if I gave up the gelato and ate only the kinds of processed foods identified as the ones I mainly eat now, it would seem 100% dishonest to claim that I did not eat processed foods, as I obviously do -- those foods are processed -- and it would be equally dishonest to claim that processed foods are unhealthy or should be cut out, as I think those foods mostly add to the healthfulness of my diet, along with some others I could name.
I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not. Since few people in my social circles eat those things, I just don't assume that's what people are talking about.0 -
I'll throw this in to the semantics :-(gg) The term “processed food” means any food other than a raw agricultural commodity and includes any raw agricultural commodity that has been subject to processing, such as canning, cooking, freezing, dehydration, or milling.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htmhttps://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htm
Boom goes the dynamite.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The use of "processed" on MFP, as well as the assumption that it's "bad" has been confusing for me since I started. Part of it is that even before losing weight I didn't eat many of the things people seem to be referring to (boxed mash potatoes, frozen meals, Twinkies, fast food, stuff like that). So that wasn't the first thing I thought of at all, but instead the processed foods I personally eat (cottage cheese, smoked salmon, tofu, plain greek yogurt, protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, etc.). I'm not sure under what interpretation of "processed" those foods would not be included.
Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?
I would genuinely like a response to this, as I am TIRED of people talking past each other. For me, even if I gave up the gelato and ate only the kinds of processed foods identified as the ones I mainly eat now, it would seem 100% dishonest to claim that I did not eat processed foods, as I obviously do -- those foods are processed -- and it would be equally dishonest to claim that processed foods are unhealthy or should be cut out, as I think those foods mostly add to the healthfulness of my diet, along with some others I could name.
I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not. Since few people in my social circles eat those things, I just don't assume that's what people are talking about.
Too many times these conversations cycle back to "Well, you *know* what I mean." But I honestly don't. And you can tell from the many posts here from newer or less experienced users that they don't necessarily know either because they're eliminating things for reasons that have little to do with nutrition/weight loss for arbitrary reasons.
If someone means "Don't eat Taco Bell [or other fast food]," say that.
"Processed" makes no sense as a category for elimination.0 -
I'll throw this in to the semantics :-(gg) The term “processed food” means any food other than a raw agricultural commodity and includes any raw agricultural commodity that has been subject to processing, such as canning, cooking, freezing, dehydration, or milling.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htmhttps://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htm
Yes, that's how most of the regulars on MFP use the term "processed foods. "
However, in almost 50 years, I have never, ever, met anyone outside the MFP forums who would consider a strawberry that I picked from my garden and threw in the freezer to be a processed food, despite that being correct according to the GPO definition.0 -
I was quasi paleo (I won't give up cheese and that's a paleo debate) and I found the Whole 30 was a great way to plunge right in, but it is a challenge. Lots of websites online that have recipes though, so I suggest the googles for that.
Overall, I can't sustain it because it's unprocessed foods it requires so much more time and energy than I am honestly willing to spend for the things I want to eat. If you throw in the whole organic route, it can also be significantly more expensive, especially the meat (but so tasty).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?
One definition that I've heard used is "acellular carbs" ie carbs not in their original cellular structure. So an apple pie would have sugar in the apple still largely within the cellular structure whereas an emulsified water, fat and sugar mixture like gelato has the sugars in their "free" form. The WHO seem to believe there's a difference.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I'll throw this in to the semantics :-(gg) The term “processed food” means any food other than a raw agricultural commodity and includes any raw agricultural commodity that has been subject to processing, such as canning, cooking, freezing, dehydration, or milling.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htmhttps://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htm
Yes, that's how most of the regulars on MFP use the term "processed foods. "
However, in almost 50 years, I have never, ever, met anyone outside the MFP forums who would consider a strawberry that I picked from my garden and threw in the freezer to be a processed food, despite that being correct according to the GPO definition.
I wouldn't include your strawberry either (I assume they mean processed other than at home). The definition Yarwell quotes refers to commodities, and your strawberry isn't one unless you grow for the market.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?
One definition that I've heard used is "acellular carbs" ie carbs not in their original cellular structure. So an apple pie would have sugar in the apple still largely within the cellular structure whereas an emulsified water, fat and sugar mixture like gelato has the sugars in their "free" form. The WHO seem to believe there's a difference.
The homemade apple pie would also have flour and some additional sugar. But if you prefer, let's compare it to some gelato I make at home (I do have an ice cream maker I rarely use). We could even sweeten the homemade stuff with juice or honey (which the WHO considers akin to added/free sugar).
And of course the two reasons the WHO gives for caring about free sugar is that it tends to be in high cal, low nutrient foods and tooth decay.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Are you talking about this? http://www.businessinsider.com/fast-food-doesnt-rot-after-2-years-2015-1
That was a display in a chiropractor's office. It wasn't a scientific study.
They wrote it down and published the results, it's a science experiment.
So if I left a Taco Bell burrito out in my office and it got moldy, then I wrote and published a blog about it...I'm a scientist? Cool. I knew all that book learnin' was a waste of time.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Are you talking about this? http://www.businessinsider.com/fast-food-doesnt-rot-after-2-years-2015-1
That was a display in a chiropractor's office. It wasn't a scientific study.
They wrote it down and published the results, it's a science experiment.
So if I left a Taco Bell burrito out in my office and it got moldy, then I wrote and published a blog about it...I'm a scientist? Cool. I knew all that book learnin' was a waste of time.
By this definition, 75% of the stuff on Buzzfeed (We challenged this girl to have her dad pick out her clothes for a week!) is a science experiment.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Are you talking about this? http://www.businessinsider.com/fast-food-doesnt-rot-after-2-years-2015-1
That was a display in a chiropractor's office. It wasn't a scientific study.
They wrote it down and published the results, it's a science experiment.
So if I left a Taco Bell burrito out in my office and it got moldy, then I wrote and published a blog about it...I'm a scientist? Cool. I knew all that book learnin' was a waste of time.
By this definition, 75% of the stuff on Buzzfeed (We challenged this girl to have her dad pick out her clothes for a week!) is a science experiment.
Wait...Buzzfeed isn't science? But...but....0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »And of course the two reasons the WHO gives for caring about free sugar is that it tends to be in high cal, low nutrient foods and tooth decay.
On weight they go for a simple association of sugar intake with overweight :-The recommendations to reduce the intake of free sugars and to do so throughout
the life course are based on analysis of the latest scientific evidence. This evidence
shows, first, that adults who consume less sugars have lower body weight and,
second, that increasing the amount of sugars in the diet is associated with a
comparable weight increase.
The meta-analysis avoided studies where weight loss was intended (?) and concluded
(page 13)Meta-analysis of the five trials in adults with ad
libitum diets (i.e. no strict control on food intake) found that reduced intake of free
sugars was associated with a decrease in body weight (–0.80 kg; 95% confidence
interval [CI]: –1.21, –0.39).
So a couple of pounds off is what they're offering, and better teeth as you say.0 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »There's no reason to avoid processed foods. Some of them may be worth avoiding for particular tastes or goals, but there are lots of convenient and nutritious processed foods that can easily fit in a healthy diet. Foods should be judged by their individual characteristics, not by the rather meaningless designation of "processed."
Whoa, so wrong. There are many reasons to avoid processed foods. If you can leave a Taco Bell meal out in a room for 2 years and it still looks the same as the day it was made, you shouldn't eat it. Why put "food" in your body if it has so much preservative chemicals in it that it won't even rot for several years? What are you trying to rationalize here? If eating over-cooked beef is known by scientists to cause cancer, what do you think eating processed foods like fast food will do?
Do you know the definition of "processed"? Literally everything you eat, unless it's raw straight from the ground is processed. I hate the misuse of that term on this site. If it's cooked, it's processed. If you make it into a smoothie, it's processed.
Perhaps your point would be better if you simply stated your dislike of fast food, but that I disagree with as well. Everything in moderation. Taco Bell a few times a year isn't going to do any harm.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »There's no reason to avoid processed foods. Some of them may be worth avoiding for particular tastes or goals, but there are lots of convenient and nutritious processed foods that can easily fit in a healthy diet. Foods should be judged by their individual characteristics, not by the rather meaningless designation of "processed."
Whoa, so wrong. There are many reasons to avoid processed foods. If you can leave a Taco Bell meal out in a room for 2 years and it still looks the same as the day it was made, you shouldn't eat it. Why put "food" in your body if it has so much preservative chemicals in it that it won't even rot for several years? What are you trying to rationalize here? If eating over-cooked beef is known by scientists to cause cancer, what do you think eating processed foods like fast food will do?
I usually eat fast food 2-4 times a week, along with all sorts of 'processed' foods, and I'm in excellent health by every marker my doctor goes by. Great blood panels (drawn twice a year), great blood pressure, no medical conditions, no medications, great sleep, good energy, high libido, normal menstrual cycles, healthy BMI (20.8), etc etc etc. I have no need to rationalize how I eat, it's working pretty darn well for me
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