Paleo based diet?

tryin2die2self

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

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3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

janejellyroll

tryin2die2self wrote: »

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3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

I did not ever claim I was some sort of food saint. Far from it. I am a Christian too. AND a sinner. However, I do try my hardest to stay away from processed food. Also, my diary is just that a diary. It is not a legal deposition. I find something close to what I am eating with a mid line range of calories and log it. If I make a strawberry salad at home and it looks to contain about the same ingredients but the MFP listing as Wendys, I use it. It is easy to scan the items and add them but what about things you can't scan. If you cook at it home you can build the recipe and hope MFP does not crash on you (which it does about a third of the time for me). Really hard to do when you are eating at friends/family and they are cooking with the best intentions.

On the particular day in question you pulled the water from it was that, sweet tea, lemonade or a long list of sodas. Considering we were out on the lake having a birthday party, I chose the Sobe over lake water. I must say I think that is the first time I have drank that concoction. If I had it to do over again, I would have brought water. I also choose not to eat hot dogs, hamburgers, pasta salad, fries, four different kinds of pies, six or seven bags of chips and a host of other things. Considering I was intermittent fasting that day and we were eating at 2 PM, I felt pretty darn good about my choices. However, I am glad you looked back over my diet for the last four days to find one entry that sparked your interest.

Yesterday I had three slices of edible arrangements chocolate covered apple (gift from wife) and the topping off three slices of pizza too (work event). For supper I had seven, YES seven, tortilla chips when we ate Mexican food at the anniversary/double birthday party and a very thin slice of cake. I did not have the bowl of chips, salsa or flour/corn tortillas. The list of processed foods I stayed away from far outweighed what I could have eaten.

If you really want to poke a stick at a processed food I do eat... it is a protein supplement. It goes against the grain. Anyone knows of a better protein supplement with less processing, please let me know.

Measuring your life by what you don't eat seems odd to me. I have some self-imposed dietary restrictions (I'm vegan) and I find it much more joyful to focus on what I choose to eat.

Not saying that's the only approach, but it seems overwhelming to constantly be thinking about all the things I'm *not* eating.

I don't think I could recount all the things I *didn't* eat at my most recent social/work food situations. They just don't occupy much mental real estate for me.

janejellyroll

tryin2die2self wrote: »

show previous quotes

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

tryin2die2self

janejellyroll wrote: »

show previous quotes

tryin2die2self wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

I did not ever claim I was some sort of food saint. Far from it. I am a Christian too. AND a sinner. However, I do try my hardest to stay away from processed food. Also, my diary is just that a diary. It is not a legal deposition. I find something close to what I am eating with a mid line range of calories and log it. If I make a strawberry salad at home and it looks to contain about the same ingredients but the MFP listing as Wendys, I use it. It is easy to scan the items and add them but what about things you can't scan. If you cook at it home you can build the recipe and hope MFP does not crash on you (which it does about a third of the time for me). Really hard to do when you are eating at friends/family and they are cooking with the best intentions.

On the particular day in question you pulled the water from it was that, sweet tea, lemonade or a long list of sodas. Considering we were out on the lake having a birthday party, I chose the Sobe over lake water. I must say I think that is the first time I have drank that concoction. If I had it to do over again, I would have brought water. I also choose not to eat hot dogs, hamburgers, pasta salad, fries, four different kinds of pies, six or seven bags of chips and a host of other things. Considering I was intermittent fasting that day and we were eating at 2 PM, I felt pretty darn good about my choices. However, I am glad you looked back over my diet for the last four days to find one entry that sparked your interest.

Yesterday I had three slices of edible arrangements chocolate covered apple (gift from wife) and the topping off three slices of pizza too (work event). For supper I had seven, YES seven, tortilla chips when we ate Mexican food at the anniversary/double birthday party and a very thin slice of cake. I did not have the bowl of chips, salsa or flour/corn tortillas. The list of processed foods I stayed away from far outweighed what I could have eaten.

If you really want to poke a stick at a processed food I do eat... it is a protein supplement. It goes against the grain. Anyone knows of a better protein supplement with less processing, please let me know.

Measuring your life by what you don't eat seems odd to me. I have some self-imposed dietary restrictions (I'm vegan) and I find it much more joyful to focus on what I choose to eat.

Not saying that's the only approach, but it seems overwhelming to constantly be thinking about all the things I'm *not* eating.

I don't think I could recount all the things I *didn't* eat at my most recent social/work food situations. They just don't occupy much mental real estate for me.

If it was two weeks ago I would be with you. When the weight comes off and I look back over my good decisions, especially in the face of temptation, it makes the success that much sweeter. Maybe when I get to maintenance it won't be such a big deal. 8% more body fat to go.

ReaderGirl3

janejellyroll wrote: »

show previous quotes

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

This. Why make this whole thing harder by boxing yourself in with arbitrary rules and restrictions that aren't realistic and are not sustainable long term? There's absolutely nothing wrong with including flavored water or protein powders into your diet. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with including bread with long ingredient lists or hot dogs and chips. Learn how to fit the things you enjoy eating into your calorie goals, focus on a varied diet and pay attention to portion sizes. Simple and effective not only for weight loss but also for better health

tryin2die2self

janejellyroll wrote: »

show previous quotes

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

They fit my life a WHOLE lot better than it did a year ago when I was 240 lbs and 40%+ body fat. I don't get sick near as often (except for gout flare ups or the paleo flu, I have not been sick in about a year), my skin is clear, I am not tired all of the time and my focus is much better. Going from processed foods being a staple in my diet and eating fast food way to much to a drastically smaller percentage of my diet has been huge. It is a work in progress. If I can replace a processed food with a non-processed one, a non-organic with an organic or box store to farmers market then I make the switch. I wish I could just flip a switch and make the change. No one is going to give me that. I read labels, make the best choice I can, and drive on.

janejellyroll

tryin2die2self wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

They fit my life a WHOLE lot better than it did a year ago when I was 240 lbs and 40%+ body fat. I don't get sick near as often (except for gout flare ups or the paleo flu, I have not been sick in about a year), my skin is clear, I am not tired all of the time and my focus is much better. Going from processed foods being a staple in my diet and eating fast food way to much to a drastically smaller percentage of my diet has been huge. It is a work in progress. If I can replace a processed food with a non-processed one, a non-organic with an organic or box store to farmers market then I make the switch. I wish I could just flip a switch and make the change. No one is going to give me that. I read labels, make the best choice I can, and drive on.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people avoiding things that don't make them feel good. I do the same thing myself. My issue is with rules that don't even address the actual issue like "Avoid ingredients you can't pronounce" or "Avoid foods with more than [x] ingredients."

I eat processed foods all the time. I think the individual attributes of those foods are more important to understand their impact on my health and wellbeing than the mere fact that they're processed. "Processed" foods include a huge variety of foods, some of which are quite healthful and delicious.

Would I feel better if I replaced all the tofu in my diet with a non-processed food? Probably not. The tofu is a really convenient and lower calorie way for me to ensure I meet my protein needs. Maybe I could find an equivalent food, but why do that just for the sake of eating "non-processed"? If I enjoy a meal of pasta, beans, and vegetables, what's the point of ditching the pasta just because it is "processed"?

I'm think there is more value in learning to understand the various attributes of foods than adopting rules that are too general.

lemurcat12

Hmm, this seems to support my suspicion expressed above (and quoted below):

The use of "processed" on MFP, as well as the assumption that it's "bad" has been confusing for me since I started. Part of it is that even before losing weight I didn't eat many of the things people seem to be referring to (boxed mash potatoes, frozen meals, Twinkies, fast food, stuff like that). So that wasn't the first thing I thought of at all, but instead the processed foods I personally eat (cottage cheese, smoked salmon, tofu, plain greek yogurt, protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, etc.). I'm not sure under what interpretation of "processed" those foods would not be included.

Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?

I would genuinely like a response to this, as I am TIRED of people talking past each other. For me, even if I gave up the gelato and ate only the kinds of processed foods identified as the ones I mainly eat now, it would seem 100% dishonest to claim that I did not eat processed foods, as I obviously do -- those foods are processed -- and it would be equally dishonest to claim that processed foods are unhealthy or should be cut out, as I think those foods mostly add to the healthfulness of my diet, along with some others I could name.

I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not. Since few people in my social circles eat those things, I just don't assume that's what people are talking about.

tryin2die2self

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

This. Why make this whole thing harder by boxing yourself in with arbitrary rules and restrictions that aren't realistic and are not sustainable long term? There's absolutely nothing wrong with including flavored water or protein powders into your diet. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with including bread with long ingredient lists or hot dogs and chips. Learn how to fit these things into your calorie goals, focus on a varied diet, and pay attention to portion sizes. Simple and effective not only for weight loss but also for better health

About 95% of the stuff we are talking about has been invented in what, the last 100 years. We did fine without them. Why can't staying away from them long term be possible? Sure, this other stuff is tempting. Heck, I love me some Whataburger. Blue Bell. Lays chips. A fat coke at the movies. I choose/attempt to eat the most nutrient dense foods possible that stay within my cal/macro range. The more time I spend looking at the empty, nutrient hollow foods that take up vast portions of the market place I realize I don't need them. Want them, sure. Failing at keeping them at bay, more often than I would like. Trying to keep them out, every day.

tryin2die2self

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Hmm, this seems to support my suspicion expressed above (and quoted below):

show previous quotes

The use of "processed" on MFP, as well as the assumption that it's "bad" has been confusing for me since I started. Part of it is that even before losing weight I didn't eat many of the things people seem to be referring to (boxed mash potatoes, frozen meals, Twinkies, fast food, stuff like that). So that wasn't the first thing I thought of at all, but instead the processed foods I personally eat (cottage cheese, smoked salmon, tofu, plain greek yogurt, protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, etc.). I'm not sure under what interpretation of "processed" those foods would not be included.

Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?

I would genuinely like a response to this, as I am TIRED of people talking past each other. For me, even if I gave up the gelato and ate only the kinds of processed foods identified as the ones I mainly eat now, it would seem 100% dishonest to claim that I did not eat processed foods, as I obviously do -- those foods are processed -- and it would be equally dishonest to claim that processed foods are unhealthy or should be cut out, as I think those foods mostly add to the healthfulness of my diet, along with some others I could name.

I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not. Since few people in my social circles eat those things, I just don't assume that's what people are talking about.

Excellent points. From the quote and the redirect. As I stated up in the thread humans have been processing foods for thousands of years. Salted fish, smoked pork, beer, wine, cheese and most would consider them acceptable. I think the paleo crowd has a problem with milk, but I am not paleo so I won't speak to it. I don't think anything we produced prior to 1900s would be considered bad. That is actually the point I look toward where I want my diet to go. I guess that would be considered an "old fashioned" diet Sure there are some exceptions, but that would be a good place to put my stamp. I am not going to get into food hybridization, gene splicing or modern agro/husbandry techniques (feeding or housing).

Most food processes have to alter the food to make it fit their price point for shelf stability. Take something simple, skim milk. They take things out (like fat and nutrients go along for the ride), only to add back in vitamins, food coloring, stabilizers and sugar plus pasteurization. I consider skim milk to be an overly processed food. We drink whole milk. I would prefer milk straight from a cow but I can't get that. If I could, I would not announce it because it is illegal to sell unpasteurized milk for human consumption. So the whole milk IS processed. They took it from a cow using machines, sucked it onto a vat, mixed it with all the other milk, sent to to a plant to pasteurize and bottled it. That is less processed than skim, 1% or even 2% milk. Sure 2% has less calories (and the macro profile to fit) but we accept they had to take away/add ingredients to make that happen. Why? I take whole milk, measure out 1/2 a cup, add 1/2 cup of water and the kids think it is skim. I just halves the macro load and all I did was add some water. I did not have to take anything away, except less milk in the cup. Nothing else was done. I also end up getting twice the usable milk for the money. I think milk is overly simplistic, but what did they have to do to make Cheetoes palatable? Or Lays chips stay crispy longer? Or the jar of olive spread have a 3 year shelf life? Or whatever is stuck in a box, jar or can in the center of the grocery store last for as long as it does and still taste acceptable. I can't just add water to fix the problem (eww on the chips), but then I can't fix those problems. Nothing I can do will make them better except eating less of them at a time. Not a solution I can accept easily.

More American are over weight now than not. That is a fact. If you live in the South, it is even worse (yeah fried foods).

I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not.

So to say the people who are complaining about ultra processed/fast foods would be the fat people would be spot on. The majority of Americans are the fat people!

Data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2009–2010

More than 2 in 3 adults are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 3 adults are considered to be obese.
More than 1 in 20 adults are considered to have extreme obesity.
About one-third of children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 6 children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be obese.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

It is not everyone but if the shoe fits for the majority of the people you know then why wouldn't you think it was everyone? It is a dangerous assumption but policy decisions are being made because of it... and not just in America.

We vote with every dollar we spend. So I am voting the best way I can. I encourage others to do the same. I am not perfect example, but I am a better example to those around me than I was a year ago. I am always trying to be a better one.

ReaderGirl3

tryin2die2self wrote: »

show previous quotes

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

This. Why make this whole thing harder by boxing yourself in with arbitrary rules and restrictions that aren't realistic and are not sustainable long term? There's absolutely nothing wrong with including flavored water or protein powders into your diet. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with including bread with long ingredient lists or hot dogs and chips. Learn how to fit these things into your calorie goals, focus on a varied diet, and pay attention to portion sizes. Simple and effective not only for weight loss but also for better health

About 95% of the stuff we are talking about has been invented in what, the last 100 years. We did fine without them. Why can't staying away from them long term be possible? Sure, this other stuff is tempting. Heck, I love me some Whataburger. Blue Bell. Lays chips. A fat coke at the movies. I choose/attempt to eat the most nutrient dense foods possible that stay within my cal/macro range. The more time I spend looking at the empty, nutrient hollow foods that take up vast portions of the market place I realize I don't need them. Want them, sure. Failing at keeping them at bay, more often than I would like. Trying to keep them out, every day.

Again what's realistic and sustainable long term. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your goals.

lemurcat12

tryin2die2self wrote: »

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lemurcat12 wrote: »

Hmm, this seems to support my suspicion expressed above (and quoted below):

The use of "processed" on MFP, as well as the assumption that it's "bad" has been confusing for me since I started. Part of it is that even before losing weight I didn't eat many of the things people seem to be referring to (boxed mash potatoes, frozen meals, Twinkies, fast food, stuff like that). So that wasn't the first thing I thought of at all, but instead the processed foods I personally eat (cottage cheese, smoked salmon, tofu, plain greek yogurt, protein powder, dried pasta, canned tomatoes, etc.). I'm not sure under what interpretation of "processed" those foods would not be included.

Even if I focus on just the "processed junk foods" I eat -- let's use Talenti Southern Butter Pecan Gelato as an example -- I find it hard to understand why the "processing" is an issue. It's no more or less high cal or high sugar or high fat than many sweets I might make (process) at home (an apple pie or oatmeal cookies, for example). So is the issue REALLY that it's processed (and if so, does that salad I mentioned above become bad for me?)? Or is it -- as jane said originally -- a matter of the specific ingredients and how they fit (or not) into your diet?

I would genuinely like a response to this, as I am TIRED of people talking past each other. For me, even if I gave up the gelato and ate only the kinds of processed foods identified as the ones I mainly eat now, it would seem 100% dishonest to claim that I did not eat processed foods, as I obviously do -- those foods are processed -- and it would be equally dishonest to claim that processed foods are unhealthy or should be cut out, as I think those foods mostly add to the healthfulness of my diet, along with some others I could name.

I get the sense that a lot of the "no processed stuff" comes from people who before losing weight ate lots and lots of ultra processed junk foods or ultra processed foods with high calories or disproportionate amounts of sugar and fat (maybe HungryMan dinners or something or lots of fast food or supermarket sweets) and so assume that everyone eats that way and that's what we all mean by "processed foods," but it's not. Since few people in my social circles eat those things, I just don't assume that's what people are talking about.

Excellent points. From the quote and the redirect. As I stated up in the thread humans have been processing foods for thousands of years. Salted fish, smoked pork, beer, wine, cheese and most would consider them acceptable. I think the paleo crowd has a problem with milk, but I am not paleo so I won't speak to it. I don't think anything we produced prior to 1900s would be considered bad. That is actually the point I look toward where I want my diet to go. I guess that would be considered an "old fashioned" diet Sure there are some exceptions, but that would be a good place to put my stamp. I am not going to get into food hybridization, gene splicing or modern agro/husbandry techniques (feeding or housing).

Most food processes have to alter the food to make it fit their price point for shelf stability. Take something simple, skim milk. They take things out (like fat and nutrients go along for the ride), only to add back in vitamins, food coloring, stabilizers and sugar plus pasteurization. I consider skim milk to be an overly processed food. We drink whole milk. I would prefer milk straight from a cow but I can't get that. If I could, I would not announce it because it is illegal to sell unpasteurized milk for human consumption. So the whole milk IS processed. They took it from a cow using machines, sucked it onto a vat, mixed it with all the other milk, sent to to a plant to pasteurize and bottled it. That is less processed than skim, 1% or even 2% milk. Sure 2% has less calories (and the macro profile to fit) but we accept they had to take away/add ingredients to make that happen. Why? I take whole milk, measure out 1/2 a cup, add 1/2 cup of water and the kids think it is skim. I just halves the macro load and all I did was add some water. I did not have to take anything away, except less milk in the cup. Nothing else was done.

Actually people have made a form of skim milk (skimming out fat) for centuries. I don't drink milk, but I have nothing against nonfat or lowfat dairy (plain greek yogurt, cottage cheese). I prefer it, even, since I find it as or more tasty than fullfat (just what I'm used to), DON'T find full fat more satiating, and prefer to save my dairy fat calories for really good cheese and ice cream.

More American are over weight now than not. That is a fact. If you live in the South, it is even worse (yeah fried foods).

Of course -- we are more sedentary, and calories are far more available than ever before (food is cheap, scarcity is much less an issue, we typically live near a place where food is sold, pre-prepared food is available so the time cost of cooking is gone, and -- and I do think this is major -- the cultural restrictions on eating that existed through my childhood in the '80s are also gone and many people eat constantly all day long and no longer seem to have basic ideas that certain foods should be eaten in moderation and vegetables should be part of meals and so on).

The role I think ultraprocessed foods play in this is not that they are inherently more caloric (they are not) or worse for us (same), but that back in the day eating required some time effort -- cooking -- whereas now if you want a cookie or some chips, go buy them or even go to the office kitchen and get them for free. Also, if chips are a big product, it's helpful to convince people that they need to be snacking all the time, and somehow we have been so convinced. But once again, it's not really the food, it's the choices people make in how to consume that food. (I don't really like many of these ultraprocessed products and never ate them, and yet I got fat too, so I have to disagree with blaming the foods for the weight issue.)

We vote with every dollar we spend. So I am voting the best way I can. I encourage others to do the same. I am not perfect example, but I am a better example to those around me than I was a year ago. I am always trying to be a better one.

I think it makes total sense to be aware of what's in your food and make good choices. I also happen to be a fan of mostly cooking from whole foods (I did this when getting fat too, however). What people are pointing out is that generalizing overly about "processed foods" makes no sense, and even with ultraprocessed foods the bigger question should be whether it fits into your nutrition goals. For example, I don't wish to waste the money, but I pointed to a company here that does premade lunches (largely paleo) that are quite tasty and healthy. If someone found it easier to eat a good lunch by using this company, should it matter that that counts as "processed"? Should I not eat cheese or pasta if I don't make it myself? (I do make the sauce for the pasta myself always, but that's for personal taste reasons.) This morning I wanted oatmeal instead of my usual eggs, and to add to the protein I added some protein powder. If I know I find the meal more satisfying with the extra protein and it fits my nutrition goals and doesn't have anything in it I think is bad for me, why not? Deciding I can't because "ultraprocessed" seems like creating unnecessary difficulties. Similarly, I am cutting back on meat some, so eating more tofu and tempeh and seitan. These are more processed according to many than my usual meat (although meat actually is processed in a sense and fish is typically frozen where I live, as is the meat I buy from a farm). Does that mean they are bad for me, even if I personally have no issue with the ingredients? That's the argument I don't understand.

kshama2001

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

show previous quotes

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

tryin2die2self wrote: »

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

I like to add my own flavorings and use Biochem Ultimate 100 % Whey protein, Natural.

Ingredients: Whey protein isolate, Natural French vanilla flavor, sunflower lecithin, xanthan gum. The cows were grass fed, which is something I value.

lemurcat12

Biochem is my preferred brand (it's easily available at WF and won the taste test of the protein powders they carry that I carried out), but of course it's ultraprocessed. I just don't think that makes it a bad choice.

amusedmonkey

tryin2die2self wrote: »

show previous quotes

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

There's nothing wrong with the protein powder. The point is that these guidelines don't seem to fit your life or the way you *want* to eat. Yet they're what you're recommending to others -- that they not eat anything they can't pronounce or that they avoid foods with more than a few ingredients. But why? These rules don't even fit your life.

This. Why make this whole thing harder by boxing yourself in with arbitrary rules and restrictions that aren't realistic and are not sustainable long term? There's absolutely nothing wrong with including flavored water or protein powders into your diet. There's also absolutely nothing wrong with including bread with long ingredient lists or hot dogs and chips. Learn how to fit these things into your calorie goals, focus on a varied diet, and pay attention to portion sizes. Simple and effective not only for weight loss but also for better health

About 95% of the stuff we are talking about has been invented in what, the last 100 years. We did fine without them. Why can't staying away from them long term be possible? Sure, this other stuff is tempting. Heck, I love me some Whataburger. Blue Bell. Lays chips. A fat coke at the movies. I choose/attempt to eat the most nutrient dense foods possible that stay within my cal/macro range. The more time I spend looking at the empty, nutrient hollow foods that take up vast portions of the market place I realize I don't need them. Want them, sure. Failing at keeping them at bay, more often than I would like. Trying to keep them out, every day.

You mean like broccolini, seedless watermelon and omega 3 eggs? Food is always evolving and being made into new combinations. We did fine without bananas and carrots too. They did not at all look or taste like they do now if not for food and agriculture evolving.

I don't make conscious decisions to avoid less nutritious foods, processed foods, or new foods because I know most of my intake is already nutrient dense and I won't be doing myself any extra favors by avoiding the rest. For example, I'm currently getting 500% of my needed vitamin C on a daily basis, getting 600% won't make a difference. My body is already getting rid of the extra so all I will be doing is getting rid of a bit more extra. Constantly stressing about the quality of my food and obsessing about it is not healthy.

tryin2die2self

kshama2001 wrote: »

show previous quotes

ReaderGirl3 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

tryin2die2self wrote: »

The processing of food has been around for thousands of years. Putting grain in a wheel, processing. Smoking meats, processing. Salting fish in an amphora, processing. Beer = liquid bread, processing. Wine, processed. Some might call jerky or hard tack processed foods. When I talk to people in my social circles, process foods refers to over processed or unnecessarily processed foods. These would commonly be located in the center of a grocery store. The endless array of shelf stable products that have ingredient lists that read like scientific papers or are longer than a poem by Thoreau. A package of frozen strawberries I would not consider as processed as the TV Dinner sitting just a few meters away. I look at the package of frozen strawberries it says "Strawberries" or "Organic Strawberries" while the Mexican TV dinner or the Pizza has a long list of ingredients, some that are down right hard to pronounce and they layman would not have clue what they were. You don't need to put natural flavors or colors in the strawberries, but you would be hard pressed not to find those on just about every processed entree in the frozen case. They add preservatives to the entree because freezing was just not enough? I can pickle foods and the ingredient list is a whole lot shorter than the list on the jar of pickles in the store. I can pull pick fresh food, blanch them and put them in the freezer with the ability to last at least a year. I have canned meat, veggies, fruits and even complete sauces with a life span of one to two years. You start measuring products on the shelf with a half life, and I think we could all agree it was over processed. I do believe Jamie Oliver said it best, "If the ingredient list in the store includes something near unpronounceable or more than five ingredients, don't eat it."

Does Oliver go on to explain why his personal ability or inability to pronounce a word relates at all to the value of a food? Or why a six-ingredient jar of, say, olive tapenade is less worthy than a four-ingredient jar of olive tapenade?

You can say something pithy (and that isn't even especially well-phrased, but whatever), but that doesn't make it a good guide for life. Why do you consider that to be valuable advice?

My beef pot roast with mixed veggies has more than 5 ingredients in it... but then it is not shelf stable. Some things are going to have more ingredients than others purely because of what they are. I think we can both agree that is not the point Jamie was making. Do you really need 12 ingredients in a loaf of plain bread?? Go google "white bread" or "organic wheat bread", switch to the images and take a look at the list. I make bread at home with half of those ingredients. Sure mine is only shelf stable for two days, but then I can't wad mine up into a ball and bounce it either. I think the point Jamie is trying to make is be educated about what you are putting into your body or feeding your children instead of just taking for granted it is good for you. Next time you go to the store, take a hard look at the ingredients. Know what they are? Why are they in there? Asking questions requires effort. I dare say most people pick what looks good, for the least amount of money and put it in the cart. Effort, almost zero. After all, the government said it was ok to eat or it would not be on the shelves.

Why would anyone put something in their body if they did not know what it was? There are over 70,000 food additives approved by the FDA and the list grows everyday. Heck. I bet only a handful of people on the planet know what they all are or can even properly pronounce them. Some of the additives approved by the FDA have been banned in other countries. But they are ok because... ?? That is just the list of ingredients, lets not even get into the process of stripping nutritional value from a food only to add other things back to fill the void (like taste). Delving into processor mismanagement only compounds the issue. The FDA only investigates most food processor if something goes horribly awry (anyone like to eat at Chipolte or have some Blue Bell Ice Cream??) I digress.

I consider it valuable because it forces you to question what is in your food. It forces you to question if it is necessary. If forces you to look for alternatives. It requires effort. If that olive tapenade has six ingredients and you like what you see, great. What about that jar next to it that has sixteen ingredients and half the price? Is that a price you are willing to pay? Is that a price you would force a child to pay?

Just because you can't be bothered to do a little research on what is in your food doesn't make food additives dangerous, or validate your idea that they should be avoided.

Here are the ingredients to the Sobe Lifewater you like:

FILTERED WATER, ERYTHRITOL, CITRIC ACID, NATURAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM LACTATE, XANTHAN GUM, ASCORBIC ACID, PURIFIED STEVIA LEAF EXTRACT, POTASSIUM CITRATE, BLACK CARROT JUICE CONCENTRATE (COLOR), GINGER EXTRACT, NIACINAMIDE, CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, COCHINEAL EXTRACT (COLOR), PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, CARAMEL COLOR, CYANOCOBALAMIN

Do you know what all of those ingredients are? Your diary is super interesting for someone espousing the benefits of eating non-processed or minimally-processed foods.

And yes, I eat Chipotle once a week. Because delicious.

Ha, that's nothing compared to the cookies n' cream protein powder-now there's an ingredient label that will make your head spin I counted around 26 ingredients before I hit 'artificial flavors', it kind of lost me after that. I wonder if it bounces when you throw it on the floor?

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tryin2die2self wrote: »

I was finger pointing myself for that one while I was responding to the other post. I need something I can drink at my desk after using up my lunch by walking. Trying to get a decent source of protein in after "working out" fasted. Do you have a good alternative?

I like to add my own flavorings and use Biochem Ultimate 100 % Whey protein, Natural.

Ingredients: Whey protein isolate, Natural French vanilla flavor, sunflower lecithin, xanthan gum. The cows were grass fed, which is something I value.

& @Lemurcat12, thanks for the info. I really need to look into the product.

J72FIT

I don't do Paleo but if it something you want to do then Mark's Daily Apple is a good place to start...

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz454X2aHLK