Alternating Cardio and Strength Training

anthony150paolucci
anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
edited April 2016 in Health and Weight Loss
I started my cut on Monday and have been lifting light so far the past few days just to get myself acclimated to weight training since I am a beginner. I am going to go heavier next week, but I don't think I should be lifting 6x a week. Instead, I decided to alternate between cardio (HIIT) and strength training every other day. So, for example:

Sunday: Cardio (20 min)
Monday: Strength (30 min)
Tuesday: Cardio (20 min)
Wednesday: Strength (30 min)
Thursday: Cardio (20 min)
Friday: Strength (30 min)
Saturday: Rest

I have read several articles stating cardio mixed with strength training is more beneficial for fat loss than just constantly doing only one of each. Do you think this is a good formula?
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Replies

  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,031 Member
    Since you're alternating days, you don't even really need the rest day, unless it's just for you mentally. Your rest days are the days in between each set.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    I wouldn't start out with 30 min 3x a week of hiit unless you really need to burn the calories because your intake is extremely low.
    Even then, I don't think 30 minutes of hiit is optimal.
    Typically people start cardio at a lower amount of time, and add more time or sessions as they progress into the cut. That way you don't end up eating 1200 calories and doing hours of cardio towards the end of your cut.
    However, I saw from your previous post that you don't have much to lose and don't want to take advice anyway.
  • anthony150paolucci
    anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
    I wouldn't start out with 30 min 3x a week of hiit unless you really need to burn the calories because your intake is extremely low.
    Even then, I don't think 30 minutes of hiit is optimal.
    Typically people start cardio at a lower amount of time, and add more time or sessions as they progress into the cut. That way you don't end up eating 1200 calories and doing hours of cardio towards the end of your cut.
    However, I saw from your previous post that you don't have much to lose and don't want to take advice anyway.

    I have taken the advice from the previous post into consideration, but I really don't want to spend time doing a recomp when I can just go down to a really lean level and have a base to start with to build muscle.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    Ok, well regardless of that. My opinion on this new topic- that much hiit is not necessary at this point. And if you decide to do it anyhow, you may want to consider eating more calories.
  • melissa6771
    melissa6771 Posts: 894 Member
    The Body for life, or back to fit as its called now, that's what the workout routine is. Alternating days with the seventh day a rest, and on the three lifting days, one week you do two upper body, one lower, the next week, the opposite, two lower, one upper. I had fantastic results with that program in the past. And the cardio sessions are hiit for 20 minutes, lifting is 45 minutes. Take a look at it. Look up back to fit on bodybuilding.com or read the book body for life by Bill Phillips, it's a great and inspirational read.
  • anthony150paolucci
    anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
    edited April 2016
    Ok, well regardless of that. My opinion on this new topic- that much hiit is not necessary at this point. And if you decide to do it anyhow, you may want to consider eating more calories.

    I actually think I can agree with you on that. I will start off with 20 minutes HIIT and go from there.
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    I wouldn't start out with 30 min 3x a week of hiit unless you really need to burn the calories because your intake is extremely low.
    Even then, I don't think 30 minutes of hiit is optimal.
    Typically people start cardio at a lower amount of time, and add more time or sessions as they progress into the cut. That way you don't end up eating 1200 calories and doing hours of cardio towards the end of your cut.
    However, I saw from your previous post that you don't have much to lose and don't want to take advice anyway.

    Yep to this ^ as we told you in your other post the higher your calorie deficit the more muscle you will lose. Cardio or hiit doesn't burn off fat, it burns calories creating a larger deficit which then in turn leads to weight loss. If you don't eat back the exercises calories you will lose more fat but you will also lose more muscle.

    But if you want to start with very low fat and no muscle go for it alternating cardio and strength training is a good strategy. I wouldn't recommend it but if that's what you.

    I am curious thoigh what lifting program you are following. In your last post you said you were following a structured program, now you are saying you don't want to lift 6 days a week (which is fine), so my question is did you find a new 3 day program? As a new lifter I would definitely follow an established program.
  • anthony150paolucci
    anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
    Actually, I probably shouldn't have said I was following a structured program. I was watching a beginner strength workout focused on the basic lifts and movements. I feel as though I can go higher in weight even though I just started. So starting next week I am going to go higher in weight, but I don't think I should be going for 6 days straight even though as much as I want to. So that is why I want to incorporate HIIT cardio along with strength training, but only do it for 20 minutes so I don't burn too many calories

    By the way, I know it might seem strange I want to go for low muscle and low fat, but I would really feel more comfortable this way.
  • IGbnat24
    IGbnat24 Posts: 520 Member
    As a beginner, I think you should take advantage of quicker gains by eating around maintenance and lifting heavy. You're doing yourself a disservice IMO.
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    Actually, I probably shouldn't have said I was following a structured program. I was watching a beginner strength workout focused on the basic lifts and movements. I feel as though I can go higher in weight even though I just started. So starting next week I am going to go higher in weight, but I don't think I should be going for 6 days straight even though as much as I want to. So that is why I want to incorporate HIIT cardio along with strength training, but only do it for 20 minutes so I don't burn too many calories

    By the way, I know it might seem strange I want to go for low muscle and low fat, but I would really feel more comfortable this way.

    If that's what you want, I think you'll regret it when it comes time to bulk but whatever you need to do.

    What is your strength program going to look like?
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    IGbnat24 wrote: »
    As a beginner, I think you should take advantage of quicker gains by eating around maintenance and lifting heavy. You're doing yourself a disservice IMO.

    Agreed but we've already suggested this to OP on another thread and it's not what he wants. I think most lifters though wish they were in a position for a recomp. I know I do lol. Lose fat and gain muscle sounds way better then bulk and cut.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    IGbnat24 wrote: »
    As a beginner, I think you should take advantage of quicker gains by eating around maintenance and lifting heavy. You're doing yourself a disservice IMO.

    Agreed.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    Not to beat a dead horse, because we've already established that the OP doesn't want to recomp even though it would be great.. But...
    Perhaps there is some underlying disordered thinking going on here? Because "Really low muscle and fat" sounds like a really unhealthy mindset to me...
    I'm not a bulk expert, (I was fat when I started lifting and "bulked" more on accident.. Heh. Oops.) But you will have to get over the fear of gaining weight if you want to make muscle gains. You can learn about tracking and macros and keep fat gains to a minimum, but to add significant muscle you'll need to add weight. Cutting at this point is just prolonging dealing with that.
    I'm sure you'll say "I'm not afraid to bulk or gain weight" etc etc.
    buuuuut, to anyone else your goals don't make sense. The goal should be to preserve as much muscle as possible.
    OP, you're at a great place to start a recomp and change your physique. Your height, weight, age, body fat all suggest a recomp could transform your body.
    If you are dead set on losing what muscle you have as long as it means a minimal body fat, maybe you need to work on some other things before you try to embark on a fitness journey.
  • anthony150paolucci
    anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
    edited April 2016
    Not to beat a dead horse, because we've already established that the OP doesn't want to recomp even though it would be great.. But...
    Perhaps there is some underlying disordered thinking going on here? Because "Really low muscle and fat" sounds like a really unhealthy mindset to me...
    I'm not a bulk expert, (I was fat when I started lifting and "bulked" more on accident.. Heh. Oops.) But you will have to get over the fear of gaining weight if you want to make muscle gains. You can learn about tracking and macros and keep fat gains to a minimum, but to add significant muscle you'll need to add weight. Cutting at this point is just prolonging dealing with that.
    I'm sure you'll say "I'm not afraid to bulk or gain weight" etc etc.
    buuuuut, to anyone else your goals don't make sense. The goal should be to preserve as much muscle as possible.
    OP, you're at a great place to start a recomp and change your physique. Your height, weight, age, body fat all suggest a recomp could transform your body.
    If you are dead set on losing what muscle you have as long as it means a minimal body fat, maybe you need to work on some other things before you try to embark on a fitness journey.

    There really isn't a right or wrong path when it comes down to it though. If I bulk now while I am above 15% body fat, I will gain muscle along with a little fat. If I cut now while I am above 15% body fat, I will lose fat along with a little muscle. I prefer the second option because say I cut down to 10% body fat, I can then bulk between 10-15 % and still be satisfied about my body fat percentage. If I bulk now and go over 20% body fat, I just won't feel good about myself and likely demotivating me. The third option everyone suggested as a recomp isn't a bad idea don't get me wrong, but I want to get rid of the extra fat now and cutting is the fastest way. Really low muscle and fat sounds unhealthy, but I much prefer it this way for now.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    Do you think this is a good formula?

    If you're new to cardio, don't do intervals. Also, do more than 20 minutes at a time. But do most of your cardio below your threshold.
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    There really isn't a right or wrong path when it comes down to it though. If I bulk now while I am above 15% body fat, I will gain muscle along with a little fat. If I cut now while I am above 15% body fat, I will lose fat along with a little muscle. I prefer the second option because say I cut down to 10% body fat, I can then bulk between 10-15 % and still be satisfied about my body fat percentage. If I bulk now and go over 20% body fat, I just won't feel good about myself and likely demotivating me. The third option everyone suggested as a recomp isn't a bad idea don't get me wrong, but I want to get rid of the extra fat now and cutting is the fastest way. Really low muscle and fat sounds unhealthy, but I much prefer it this way for now.

    And what I bolded is the real root of the issue, you're trying to do this quickly. I don't think you understand what a cut is. A cut is a slow processes not a fast one, it is meant to be used after a bulk as a method of retaining the muscle you build during your bulk while getting rid of the fat that came with the muscle. So really you're not cutting you're just trying to drop weight, which is fine, but isn't really a cut.

    Also during a bulk you don't put on that much fat there is some but if you're doing a slow bulk (like a 200 calorie surplus) you won't gain much fat. Also like for me during my bulk I felt so good about the strength gains I was making I didn't mind the fat on top of which as my muscles grew I looked more define even with any fat I gained.

    I really recommend you re think things and take a slow approach instead of looking to do this quick. Because cut and bulk cycles are not meant to be quick.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.

    It looks like he has another thread on calories? I'm not going to go looking for it to try and convince someone who won't listen to reason. I will say the following:

    OP - cut slowly, lift 3-4 days a week, eat plenty of protein but don't cut carbs too severely either (you need the energy to get through workouts) and don't fall for the HIIT hype. Use it, but do steady state because your heart is the most important muscle you have. Think protein for that reason too.

    So, don't cut more than by 500 calories a day. Eat at least 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get 0.3-.35 grams of fat per pound of body weight, and fill with quality carbs. By way of comparison I'm a 205ish pound man and I'm currently cutting by 250 calories a day. I figure I'll hit 188-190 by early autumn. It works.

  • anthony150paolucci
    anthony150paolucci Posts: 85 Member
    edited April 2016
    There really isn't a right or wrong path when it comes down to it though. If I bulk now while I am above 15% body fat, I will gain muscle along with a little fat. If I cut now while I am above 15% body fat, I will lose fat along with a little muscle. I prefer the second option because say I cut down to 10% body fat, I can then bulk between 10-15 % and still be satisfied about my body fat percentage. If I bulk now and go over 20% body fat, I just won't feel good about myself and likely demotivating me. The third option everyone suggested as a recomp isn't a bad idea don't get me wrong, but I want to get rid of the extra fat now and cutting is the fastest way. Really low muscle and fat sounds unhealthy, but I much prefer it this way for now.

    And what I bolded is the real root of the issue, you're trying to do this quickly. I don't think you understand what a cut is. A cut is a slow processes not a fast one, it is meant to be used after a bulk as a method of retaining the muscle you build during your bulk while getting rid of the fat that came with the muscle. So really you're not cutting you're just trying to drop weight, which is fine, but isn't really a cut.

    Also during a bulk you don't put on that much fat there is some but if you're doing a slow bulk (like a 200 calorie surplus) you won't gain much fat. Also like for me during my bulk I felt so good about the strength gains I was making I didn't mind the fat on top of which as my muscles grew I looked more define even with any fat I gained.

    I really recommend you re think things and take a slow approach instead of looking to do this quick. Because cut and bulk cycles are not meant to be quick.

    Is a cut always used after a bulk? Because I have seen many times recommended on bodybuilding forums that people who are low on muscle with 15% body fat or higher and are new to lifting, they sometimes recommend you cut down to a lean level. When they say "cut" though, that means they are lifting while they are in a deficit right?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    I love a recomp. I've done it for a while now.

    I know that I am not out much in the winter but when people see me in the spring I am asked "how much more weight have you lost"...according to the scale 0 or I've gained a few lbs.

    nothing more satisfying.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.

    It looks like he has another thread on calories? I'm not going to go looking for it to try and convince someone who won't listen to reason. I will say the following:

    OP - cut slowly, lift 3-4 days a week, eat plenty of protein but don't cut carbs too severely either (you need the energy to get through workouts) and don't fall for the HIIT hype. Use it, but do steady state because your heart is the most important muscle you have. Think protein for that reason too.

    So, don't cut more than by 500 calories a day. Eat at least 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get 0.3-.35 grams of fat per pound of body weight, and fill with quality carbs. By way of comparison I'm a 205ish pound man and I'm currently cutting by 250 calories a day. I figure I'll hit 188-190 by early autumn. It works.

    I totally agree, if he is determined to cut.
    I think he needs to try some macro calculators so he gets an idea of how much he actually needs, and start with a gradual decrease. (Don't quote me but I believe he is about 20 years old, 5'8", 145 lbs and plans to eat 1500 calories and 100g protein.) I only remember because I tried plugging him into iifym to see whereabouts he should be eating.
    Apples to oranges, but there are tiny women who eat more than that for weightloss.
  • sunnybeaches105
    sunnybeaches105 Posts: 2,831 Member
    edited April 2016
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.

    It looks like he has another thread on calories? I'm not going to go looking for it to try and convince someone who won't listen to reason. I will say the following:

    OP - cut slowly, lift 3-4 days a week, eat plenty of protein but don't cut carbs too severely either (you need the energy to get through workouts) and don't fall for the HIIT hype. Use it, but do steady state because your heart is the most important muscle you have. Think protein for that reason too.

    So, don't cut more than by 500 calories a day. Eat at least 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get 0.3-.35 grams of fat per pound of body weight, and fill with quality carbs. By way of comparison I'm a 205ish pound man and I'm currently cutting by 250 calories a day. I figure I'll hit 188-190 by early autumn. It works.

    I totally agree, if he is determined to cut.
    I think he needs to try some macro calculators so he gets an idea of how much he actually needs, and start with a gradual decrease. (Don't quote me but I believe he is about 20 years old, 5'8", 145 lbs and plans to eat 1500 calories and 100g protein.) I only remember because I tried plugging him into iifym to see whereabouts he should be eating.
    Apples to oranges, but there are tiny women who eat more than that for weightloss.

    He's trying to lose weight?!!!

    OP - Dude, you're 20. You have a ton of T raging through your body. Eat at a very slight calorie surplus and lift 5 days a week.

    Edit: kitten typos
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.

    It looks like he has another thread on calories? I'm not going to go looking for it to try and convince someone who won't listen to reason. I will say the following:

    OP - cut slowly, lift 3-4 days a week, eat plenty of protein but don't cut carbs too severely either (you need the energy to get through workouts) and don't fall for the HIIT hype. Use it, but do steady state because your heart is the most important muscle you have. Think protein for that reason too.

    So, don't cut more than by 500 calories a day. Eat at least 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get 0.3-.35 grams of fat per pound of body weight, and fill with quality carbs. By way of comparison I'm a 205ish pound man and I'm currently cutting by 250 calories a day. I figure I'll hit 188-190 by early autumn. It works.

    I totally agree, if he is determined to cut.
    I think he needs to try some macro calculators so he gets an idea of how much he actually needs, and start with a gradual decrease. (Don't quote me but I believe he is about 20 years old, 5'8", 145 lbs and plans to eat 1500 calories and 100g protein.) I only remember because I tried plugging him into iifym to see whereabouts he should be eating.
    Apples to oranges, but there are tiny women who eat more than that for weightloss.

    He's trying to lose weight?!!!

    OP - Dude, you're 20. You have a ton of T raging through your body. Lift at a very slight calorie surplus and lift 5 days a week.

    I knooooow!!
    But he is too concerned with going over 15% body fat.
    He could easily lower body fat while gaining muscle if he would get his ducks in a row here...
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    I'd leave HIIT to once a week in the beginning and use steady state the other two days. HIIT will require recovery similar to lifting. I think steady state cardio has gotten a very bad rep on lifting boards, but the heart benefits are pretty clear. You're also not going to have problems building muscle if all you're running are 5Ks and below.

    He's likely severely under eating though as well.

    It looks like he has another thread on calories? I'm not going to go looking for it to try and convince someone who won't listen to reason. I will say the following:

    OP - cut slowly, lift 3-4 days a week, eat plenty of protein but don't cut carbs too severely either (you need the energy to get through workouts) and don't fall for the HIIT hype. Use it, but do steady state because your heart is the most important muscle you have. Think protein for that reason too.

    So, don't cut more than by 500 calories a day. Eat at least 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight. Get 0.3-.35 grams of fat per pound of body weight, and fill with quality carbs. By way of comparison I'm a 205ish pound man and I'm currently cutting by 250 calories a day. I figure I'll hit 188-190 by early autumn. It works.

    I totally agree, if he is determined to cut.
    I think he needs to try some macro calculators so he gets an idea of how much he actually needs, and start with a gradual decrease. (Don't quote me but I believe he is about 20 years old, 5'8", 145 lbs and plans to eat 1500 calories and 100g protein.) I only remember because I tried plugging him into iifym to see whereabouts he should be eating.
    Apples to oranges, but there are tiny women who eat more than that for weightloss.

    He's trying to lose weight?!!!

    OP - Dude, you're 20. You have a ton of T raging through your body. Lift at a very slight calorie surplus and lift 5 days a week.

    I knooooow!!
    But he is too concerned with going over 15% body fat.
    He could easily lower body fat while gaining muscle if he would get his ducks in a row here...

    20 YO have read the book "OF ALL"...didn't you know that...remember 20 when you knew it all too?

    beating a dead horse.
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    Is a cut always used after a bulk? Because I have seen many times recommended on bodybuilding forums that people who are low on muscle with 15% body fat or higher and are new to lifting, they sometimes recommend you cut down to a lean level. When they say "cut" though, that means they are lifting while they are in a deficit right?

    It doesn't have to be used after a bulk you could start with a cut then bulk or cut then go to maintenance, but the term cut comes from a cut and bulk cycle.

    Yes during a cut you have a deficit and lift heavy but I would say what a cut means is "maintaining muscle while losing fat" (how you do that is heavy lifting on a SMALL deficit and it's a slow process). Also body building sites are great but take them with a grain of salt, there is also a lot of mis-information.

    I mean think about your end goal, lose fat gain muscle. A recomp does exactly that. Recomps are most effective on new lifters which you are. So why not take advantage? Find a structured premade lifting program that utilizes compound lifts, and eat 100-200 calories under maitainence.

    The reason why body builders do cut and bulk cycles instead of recomps is because their muscles have already been exposed to large amounts of lifting so a recomp isn't possible. So you can do cut and bulk instead of a recomp but you need to realize it is a slow process.

    Also you may have a little bit of fat but I think you're already pretty damn lean.... at 5'8" and only 154 pounds I can't imagine you have much fat.
  • melissa6771
    melissa6771 Posts: 894 Member
    @anthony150paolucci

    You are going to get all differing opinions here. I think you are going to get very overwhelmed, possibly confused as well. The program I told you about and the book, he is a trained, very well known person. It's basic and easy to follow. It will have you eating enough calories and getting to your goal. Please give it a read at least. God knows there are enough testimonials for this program and you can still track on here.
  • knoxjkk
    knoxjkk Posts: 4 Member
    I do something similar and I have a lot of weight to lose. I do it just because it works for me schedule wise and I enjoy it. I do a full body work out every other day, 3x week, with HIIT on the in between days, but I also do 20-30 min steady state cardio after my strength training.

  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    @anthony150paolucci

    You are going to get all differing opinions here. I think you are going to get very overwhelmed, possibly confused as well. The program I told you about and the book, he is a trained, very well known person. It's basic and easy to follow. It will have you eating enough calories and getting to your goal. Please give it a read at least. God knows there are enough testimonials for this program and you can still track on here.

    @melissa6771 not exactly the right program to point a new lifter too...if a book is required it's complicated.

    Stronglifts 5x5 is a good starter program...no book necessary just the app and fundamental knowledge of how to youtube to watch how the lifts are done
  • melissa6771
    melissa6771 Posts: 894 Member
    @SezxyStef

    Quite the assumption that because it's in a book it's complicated. Do you know the program? Have you done it? Do you know that it's not good for a beginner? Because it is just that. It's extremely simple and easy to follow, I know this for a fact because I have followed it, and know many who have. I'm sure he could just look it up online, like I said, a lot of it is online at bodybuilding.com under back to fit, also at BFL.com, but the original book, before everything was online, is very inspirational. It can't hurt to read it on paper and online. Books are not evil.