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New Take On How Gastric Bypass Cures Diabetes

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  • FunkyTobiasFunkyTobias Posts: 1,776Member Member Posts: 1,776Member Member
    @GaleHawkins if you cannot get fat from fat, please to explain the following

    I decided to examine the relationship between obesity prevalence and our intake of carbohydrate and sugar over the years. The food intake data come from the USDA's Economic Research Service (2). For some reason, the data on carbohydrate don't extend beyond 2010. This probably relates to funding cuts at the USDA*.

    Let's have a look at the data for carbohydrate:

    Carbs%2Bvs.%2Bobesity.jpg

    Carbohydrate intake peaked in 1999, and has apparently been declining since then. Yet obesity is still rising.

    For our sugar intake, the data extend to 2013, so we get a longer, more informative picture (added sugars):

    Carbs%2Bvs.%2Bobesity%2B%2528sugar%2529.jpg

    Carbohydrate intake peaked in 1999, and has apparently been declining since then. Yet obesity is still rising.

    For our sugar intake, the data extend to 2013, so we get a longer, more informative picture (added sugars):


    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2015/11/carbohydrate-sugar-and-obesity-in.html


    Added%2Bfat%2Bvs.%2Bobesity.jpg

    Hmmm. Added fat intake increased by 28 percent over the course of the obesity epidemic, and it's the only factor out of the four we've examined that consistently increased in parallel with our expanding waistlines.

    This doesn't surprise me at all. Here's why:

    Added fat is the most calorie-dense food on the planet.
    Added fat is one of the most effective ingredients for enhancing food palatability.
    Added fat has a very low satiety value per calorie.
    People eat more total calories when extra fat is added to their food.
    Added fat fattens a variety of non-human species, including mice, rats, dogs, cats, pigs, and monkeys, when added to their food.

    The rise of added fats was probably a contributor to the obesity epidemic, along with other diet and lifestyle factors. While fat isn't necessarily fattening when it's eaten as part of whole foods with lower calorie density and high fiber or protein (meat, yogurt, avocados, nuts), a lot of research has converged on the conclusion that added fat is fattening.


    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2015/11/fat-added-fat-and-obesity-in-america.html
  • ClosetBayesianClosetBayesian Posts: 834Member Member Posts: 834Member Member
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    "The findings support the hypothesis that high-fat, low-carbohydrate diets are associated with the onset of non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus in humans." http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/134/6/590.abstract?ijkey=03bc27d5bfa50f59494b6cc75c02fbbfd43c3119&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

    "Fat consumption significantly predicts NIDDM risk in subjects with IGT after controlling for obesity and markers of glucose metabolism." http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/1/50.full.pdf+html
  • stealthqstealthq Posts: 4,307Member Member Posts: 4,307Member Member
    Most diabetics, overweight or not, will have issues with low blood glucose if they go long periods without eating or not eating enough. with gastric bypass you will be eating so little it makes sense your glucose levels will decrease therefore decreasing the need for insulin.
    My question is are they cured or in remission? If they begin eating as they had before surgery will the need for diabetic meds arise?

    @stephanieluvspb I agree with your point. Remission or cure would be mean we would have to know the 'cause' of diabetes.

    drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/07/19/what-happens-to-the-carbs-part-ii/ in part states about the cause of diabetes:

    "Just to summarize these ‘paradoxical’ facts:

    You do not need any fat cells to develop diabetes/if you have no fat cells there is a 100% probability that you will be diabetic
    You can be very , very, obese and not have diabetes
    You can have increased insulin production long before you become obese (and/or insulin resistant). You become obese later.

    ...

    This makes no sense. First, no 'normal' human has zero fat cells. Second, the only one I could find reported that does* doesn't have diabetes.

    * Lizzie Velasquez - reported she was born with no adipose tissue, but there is also speculation by the medical community that she has a form of Neonatal Progeroid Syndrome, in which case she may still have traces left.
    edited April 2016
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?
  • jofjltncb6jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,965Member Member Posts: 34,965Member Member
    shell1005 wrote: »
    What do you think people eat to try and triple their body weight by diet?

    Food Gale. Food.

    Their typical macro of food please?

    There isn't one special macro that works better than any other. There is one that's relatively cheaper and easier to eat though in excess, so it often gets the nod.

    I added 20ish pounds in 2012 eating very strict paleo lowish (<200g) carb and highish fat. I then cut most of this weight in early 2013 eating a SAD. To gain, I ate more calories than I burned; To cut, less. That's just how it works. That's how it always works.
    edited April 2016
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    It's almost like you didn't read my prior answer to this just a few posts up!

    Here you are again:

    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. [Edit: if they were just trying to get fat, it would probably be easiest on a high fat and carbs diet. But that's not the only goal--they want to be athletic and muscular.] And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).
    edited April 2016
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 8,917Member Member Posts: 8,917Member Member
    The answer is: whole, homecooked foods, high in vegetables.




    If you don't want to get fat like sumo wrestlers, don't eat your vegetables, kids!
  • auddiiauddii Posts: 15,410Member Member Posts: 15,410Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.
  • jofjltncb6jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,965Member Member Posts: 34,965Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    Know what overweight people *do* have in common though? They ate more calories (from all/any source) than they burned.
  • GaleHawkinsGaleHawkins Posts: 7,623Member Member Posts: 7,623Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?
  • jofjltncb6jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,965Member Member Posts: 34,965Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?

    That question doesn't even make sense.
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 8,917Member Member Posts: 8,917Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?

    I've posted a video. They're eating:
    Lots of fatty meats and lots of vegetables.

    As all ketoers will tell us, on low carb you're eating more vegetables because they're the good carbs and very low in them anyway, which leaves us with...

    Lots of fatty meats as the bulk of their calories.

    That's what they eat to get fat.
    You're proven wrong.
    At least 2 dozen times already in this and your other threads.
    Repeating the same wrong thing over and over is not going to make you magically right, not even if your goal is we get sick of it and stop replying.
  • FunkyTobiasFunkyTobias Posts: 1,776Member Member Posts: 1,776Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?
    That workout is usually followed by an enormous lunch of chanko-nabe, the dish most culturally tied to sumo wrestling. It's a hearty stew that can be made with almost any kinds of vegetables (bok choy, daikon, mushroom, anything you can think of) and protein (chicken, fish, meatballs, tofu) in a dashi broth. The same rules apply to the sumo diet as most other sports—a balance of meat and fish, safe starches like rice and noodles, and as many veggies as you can scarf down

    73458465.jpg
    http://www.gq.com/story/sumo-diet-of-byamba-ulambayar
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?

    I don't debate with macros.

    Micros, though, that Vitamin A is quite a sophist!
    edited April 2016
  • Christine_72Christine_72 Posts: 16,074Member Member Posts: 16,074Member Member
    auddii wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    Do you honestly believe that every sumo wrestler ways the exact same foods? Football players? Ballet dancers? People that are overweight?

    This whole concept is ridiculous.

    What macros have you found to debate your stated personal opinion?

    Gale please... They overeat food with ALL the macros, they don't single out one particular one to gain weight. It's not that scientific, eat above your TDEE and WILL gain weight, no matter what you eat.
  • Serah87Serah87 Posts: 5,498Member Member Posts: 5,498Member Member
    I think Gale must of taken common core classes, lol
    edited April 2016
  • snikkinssnikkins Posts: 1,282Member Member Posts: 1,282Member Member
    Serah87 wrote: »
    I think Gale must of taken common core classes, lol

    Nah, because then he would be able to have explained his answer instead of talking in circles. ;)

    I'm so confused! Over-eating leads to weight gain, which leads to increased risk of diabetes. I didn't think this was controversial.
  • WinoGelatoWinoGelato Posts: 13,325Member Member Posts: 13,325Member Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    100df wrote: »
    I have read that surgery greatly improves a diabetics health before they have had time to lose weight. It makes me wonder if that if they can figure out why maybe they won't have to do such invasive surgery.

    http://m.care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/Supplement_2/S361.full
    Studies have shown that return to euglycemia and normal insulin levels occurs within days after surgery, long before any significant weight loss takes place. This fact suggests that weight loss alone is not a sufficient explanation for this improvement. Other possible mechanisms effective in this phenomenon are decreased food intake, partial malabsorption of nutrients, and anatomical alteration of the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which incites changes in the incretin system, affecting, in turn, glucose balance. Better understanding of those mechanisms may bring about a discovery of new treatment modalities for diabetes and obesity
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If you mean sumo wrestlers, they are trying to gain muscle, not just fatten up. And they eat lots of protein and carbs. Average thin Japanese people, including those on the various healthy traditional diets, also ate lots of carbs. Kenyan marathon runners (hint: they don't look much like sumo wrestlers) eat 80-10-10 (the 80 is carbs, not fat). The sumo diet doesn't seem wildly different in theory (it is in the amount of calories and the fact that beer is apparently an important part) from the old standard bro diet of skinless chicken breast, rice, and veg.

    Your idea that one can't get fat from fat is, well, odd. It is true that the standard athletic diet tends to be low fat, although obviously there are exceptions, especially these days, but that's because carbs and protein both have specific roles that are seen as useful (the role of carbs being fuel).

    Odd as in the earth is round and not flat?

    No, odd as in thinking we didn't land on the moon.
    Yes carbs may be a fuel source. Over eating carbs over time can cause type 2 diabetes. Over eating fats will not.

    That's not what the diabetes experts say, and you are ignoring the point, which is WHY the marathoners and sumo wrestlers eat so many carbs. It's not because they are magically more fattening than fat.

    What is the macro then that sumo wrestlers eat be become so obese that supports your debate position?

    People don't eat just one macro. All three macronutrients can be consumed and people can be underweight or overweight. Most people eat a mix of carbs, fat, protein. Foods also can be comprised of more than one macronutrient. Revolutionary I know...
  • lemurcat12lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886Member Member Posts: 30,886Member Member
    I think Gale should write to his senator Mitch McConnell and get him to lobby Congress to declare all foods either "fats," "carbs," or "proteins." Then this pesky mixed thing will no longer be an issue and some delicious creamy ice cream will simply be "a carb," as God intended. After all, it's not like he's wasting time with some nominee to the SC or anything.
    edited April 2016
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