Kidding Ourselves
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amusedmonkey wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »The easy way to not kid yourself: Don't eat back your calories. I know exactly what my intake goal is every day. I eat that much and no more. Some days I'm active, some days not. I still lose either way.
Everything you do involving calorie counting is inexact. If you want to lose, you're better off being inexact by NOT eating than inexact by eating.
MFP is great for estimating intake. It's truly terrible at estimating calories burnt.
But if being active means dipping into too low of a calorie net, it takes a toll on your muscles, recovery and energy. I'm currently taking a semi-break, set to slightly more than 1/2 pound a week and losing in the ballpark of that every single week for the past 3 weeks. I did slightly more than 400 calories of exercise today, which is a typical day.
On some days my extra calories are actually 1000 or more. Now imagine if I didn't have my loss set to only a slight deficit. If I had it at 1.5 pounds a week like I did earlier this month at 1350 calories. On a typical day I would be netting a measly 950, and on heavier days I would be netting under 500 calories. How would my body handle that severe deficit? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be good.
+1
And for shorties like me who are not overweight, eating back exercise cals is pretty much a requirement. I'm netting 1240 cals to lose a bit less than 2lbs per month. I run 5+ miles at least 4 days a week, weather permitting. If I didn't eat those back, my recovery would be totally shot.1 -
Sometimes the high numbers are a result of a low activity selection paired with a fitness tracker. What I mean is, if you select sedentary, but wear a fitbit and do a lot during a day, you'll see a much larger adjustment than you would if you did that same exercise but selected a higher daily activity level.
So, it may show 1000 calories burned, but that is due to the very low expected burn. It still may be over estimating, but it then has to do with a larger difference rather than an outright calorie burn. When I put sedentary, I might get 1000 exercise calories a day. If I chose a higher activity level, I only get a few hundred.
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fattothinmum wrote: »I keep reading posts from people who've burned up to 1000+ calories a day from cardio, and fairly light exercise. Now I know I only burn around 300 calories for running 5K, so that means these people must be running or equivalent to 15-20K a day, or 10 miles plus, but often they day things like 'hour of housework, or 2 hours of walking at moderate pace, etc etc.
If people eat back those type of calorie burn estimates, I suspect they'd have trouble losing weight, unless of course, my Apple Watch and treadmill seriously underestimates. Which would be nice.
Just watch out for overestimations if you eat back all the time.
I'll probably get flamed for this but exercise is also not an excuse to eat anything you want. By all means, consume back some the calories burned in the form of lean proteins and maybe allow yourself some minor indulgences... but last time I checked a bowl of ice cream, cake and a bag of chips are neither lean nor considered proteins.
You just can't outrun a bad diet!1 -
I do pretty well eating ice cream. I eat it frequently. When I have calories left for it.. and macros left.. and I also choose healthier versions, some with protein added. I see no need to quit the things you like as long as you understand what they cost you. Nobody should go hungry on a diet, if you do, you're doing something wrong or choosing the wrong thing(s) to eat. Stay within your budget and macros and eat what you feel comfortable with.
I defend ice cream quite frequently because I'm addicted lol.. no flame intended. I had to learn to eat the "no sugar added" and the protein laced versions pretty quick or I would have had to give it up.1 -
lauragreenbaum148 wrote: »i read an interesting article that some people far overestimate the calories they burn, so they end up consuming more than they think they are. It has a negative effect on weight loss in the end. I never input my work outs because I don't want calories added back into my daily allotment. I figure workouts are "extra" help or icing on the cake, haha.
Don't you have to eat your macros back? I mean look at your protein before and after exercises it goes up meaning it needs to be replenished
Once my protein hits a gram per pound of body weight I stop caring about macros as much. I tend to bump the carb bucket more at that point or if I'm really lacking on calories I'll hit something like peanut butter that's calorie dense.
Won't you hit catabolism at that point? coz here's how I'm understanding this let's say I plug all my info in mfp weight, age, activity level etc. So mfp calculates all this and gives me my Cal limit and macro now from my understanding anything i do outside of my activity level ie exercise calories I gotta replenished coz my body won't have those nutrients
I have my protein macro set at 35% which gives me a goal of 218 grams a day. If I do a run that burns 2500 calories I don't need to carry that ratio and hit 437 grams of protein. That's a bit much don't you think? No, you're not burning muscle. You just need a good amount for muscle repair. Your body still prefers carbs and all of those extra carbs are to rebuild the glycogen stores you ripped through.
I still get a larger amount of protein. Even though I don't try to hit 35% on the extra portion I bet I clear 300 grams easily on these days. How much do I need?
ETA: If you're just asking if I eat the calories back, then yes. I generally do.0 -
RunnersLament wrote: »fattothinmum wrote: »I keep reading posts from people who've burned up to 1000+ calories a day from cardio, and fairly light exercise. Now I know I only burn around 300 calories for running 5K, so that means these people must be running or equivalent to 15-20K a day, or 10 miles plus, but often they day things like 'hour of housework, or 2 hours of walking at moderate pace, etc etc.
If people eat back those type of calorie burn estimates, I suspect they'd have trouble losing weight, unless of course, my Apple Watch and treadmill seriously underestimates. Which would be nice.
Just watch out for overestimations if you eat back all the time.
I'll probably get flamed for this but exercise is also not an excuse to eat anything you want. By all means, consume back some the calories burned in the form of lean proteins and maybe allow yourself some minor indulgences... but last time I checked a bowl of ice cream, cake and a bag of chips are neither lean nor considered proteins.
You just can't outrun a bad diet!
You technically can't outrun a bad diet, but you absolutely can run away from a restrictive diet by burning more calories. Lean protein is not the be all and end all of dieting. Sometimes "yet another chicken breast" is exactly what you shouldn't be having, and that tub of ice cream is exactly what your diet needs. I can't imagine myself lasting nearly as long or losing nearly as much if every time I burned 1000 calories I had 4 more chicken breasts.5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »...and that tub of ice cream is exactly what your diet needs.
^^^This^^^ Just don't go overboard. If It Fits Your Macros. Check out IIFYM.com. Great place to read about flexible dieting.
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RunnersLament wrote: »fattothinmum wrote: »I keep reading posts from people who've burned up to 1000+ calories a day from cardio, and fairly light exercise. Now I know I only burn around 300 calories for running 5K, so that means these people must be running or equivalent to 15-20K a day, or 10 miles plus, but often they day things like 'hour of housework, or 2 hours of walking at moderate pace, etc etc.
If people eat back those type of calorie burn estimates, I suspect they'd have trouble losing weight, unless of course, my Apple Watch and treadmill seriously underestimates. Which would be nice.
Just watch out for overestimations if you eat back all the time.
I'll probably get flamed for this but exercise is also not an excuse to eat anything you want. By all means, consume back some the calories burned in the form of lean proteins and maybe allow yourself some minor indulgences... but last time I checked a bowl of ice cream, cake and a bag of chips are neither lean nor considered proteins.
You just can't outrun a bad diet!
*shrug*
I use my regular calories for lean protein, veg and such. Exercise calories are for whatever I want to eat whether that's pizza, fries, ice cream, cake, or fruit. Honestly, after I get sufficient protein why pass up food I like to get more? I'm usually at or over (0.8*LBM) by the time the day is done. And why avoid fats in general?0 -
lauragreenbaum148 wrote: »i read an interesting article that some people far overestimate the calories they burn, so they end up consuming more than they think they are. It has a negative effect on weight loss in the end. I never input my work outs because I don't want calories added back into my daily allotment. I figure workouts are "extra" help or icing on the cake, haha.
Don't you have to eat your macros back? I mean look at your protein before and after exercises it goes up meaning it needs to be replenished
Once my protein hits a gram per pound of body weight I stop caring about macros as much. I tend to bump the carb bucket more at that point or if I'm really lacking on calories I'll hit something like peanut butter that's calorie dense.
Won't you hit catabolism at that point? coz here's how I'm understanding this let's say I plug all my info in mfp weight, age, activity level etc. So mfp calculates all this and gives me my Cal limit and macro now from my understanding anything i do outside of my activity level ie exercise calories I gotta replenished coz my body won't have those nutrients
Unless you're on steroids you're body can only use so much protein, about 1g/kg. Any more than that and your cells will need assistance to utilize it so to speak. (Or about 1 g per lb of lean body mass).
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I under estimates calories burned and over estimated calories taken in. No worries for me.
For calories burned, most exercises I average about 400 -500 calories per hour, so I just plug that in no matter what. That said, I do three hours of tennis and I am upwards of 1200-1500 calories.0 -
lauragreenbaum148 wrote: »I never input my work outs because I don't want calories added back into my daily allotment. I figure workouts are "extra" help or icing on the cake, haha.
And if I get too hungry doing that, I end up binging on said icing.
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I ran ~5.8 miles today in 47 mins. Says I burned 820 calories for my weight. It's probably pretty accurate. I could easily do that 6 days a week with no real leg fatigue.0
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »This is one of those topics that can quickly turn into a train wreck because calorie expenditures vary from individual to individual, and no one knows what they're burning until they've put in the work over time (while carefully tracking) to get a general view of their own NEAT and exercise energy expenditures, and/or TDEE. In other words, it's difficult to make accurate generalizations.
Exactly
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xmichaelyx wrote: »The easy way to not kid yourself: Don't eat back your calories. I know exactly what my intake goal is every day. I eat that much and no more. Some days I'm active, some days not. I still lose either way.
Everything you do involving calorie counting is inexact. If you want to lose, you're better off being inexact by NOT eating than inexact by eating.
MFP is great for estimating intake. It's truly terrible at estimating calories burnt.
This is not great advice for someone who is following MFP's suggestions, particulary if they are very active.
I did 1 1/2 hours of running on Friday (with hill repeats), 1 1/2 hours of cycling and a 30 minute run on Saturday, and a 2 hour ride on Sunday (I was supposed to swim too but didn't get to). That's close to or over 1000 calories a day in exercise for 3 days in a row. My days through the week are lighter. I could use TDEE but I prefer to have the extra calories on certain days. But TDEE includes activity so you are still technically eating back exercise calories.
If I followed MFP's calorie recommendation and didn't account for exercise, I'd be eating 1330 calories. That is a massive deficit that would lead to me crashing and burning.
MFP isn't truly terrible. Some entries are more reliable than others. I lost weight initially using only MFP's calorie estimates. A good explanation of this-
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/estimating-calories-activity-databases-198041
There are cases where "don't eat back exercise calories" would be fine, but it certainly doesnt apply to everyone.0 -
RunnersLament wrote: »I'll probably get flamed for this but exercise is also not an excuse to eat anything you want. By all means, consume back some the calories burned in the form of lean proteins and maybe allow yourself some minor indulgences... but last time I checked a bowl of ice cream, cake and a bag of chips are neither lean nor considered proteins.
You just can't outrun a bad diet!
You don't gain weight because you ate ice cream, you gain weight because you ate too many calories. As long as you're hitting your minimum nutritional needs and getting sufficient essential fats and protein, what else you fill the rest of the calories with is irrelevant. You don't get any bonus points for eating a surplus of lean protein.
And, in fact, that "junk food" can be exactly the right kind of food to bring along on activities like hiking. On a hike, since you're carrying all your food around, you need high calories per weight ratio (i.e. higher fat), and since you're burning calories at a moderate rate for a long time, you want to have the immediate energy of higher carb, particularly higher sugar, to refuel your muscles as you go. The food also needs to be palatable (exercise often reduces appetite) and not too filling (because you need to eat a whole lot of extra calories if you're hiking for 8+ hours). High sodium is a plus, too, because you want to replenish what you lose in sweat, and to balance out all the water you consume; hyponatremia is a real risk in endurance events.
A lot of junk food fits the bill perfectly - high fat, high carb, high energy density, high palatability, high sodium, low satiety. Granted I wouldn't bring along a cake or ice cream for logistical reasons (I might try freeze-dried ice cream some time). I would have either when I returned from a hike, though, to replenish glycogen afterwards.0 -
lauragreenbaum148 wrote: »i read an interesting article that some people far overestimate the calories they burn, so they end up consuming more than they think they are. It has a negative effect on weight loss in the end. I never input my work outs because I don't want calories added back into my daily allotment. I figure workouts are "extra" help or icing on the cake, haha.
Don't you have to eat your macros back? I mean look at your protein before and after exercises it goes up meaning it needs to be replenished
Some people choose to ignore exercise calories all together. For some it's because exercise is minimal or they have modest weekly goals, others who may not understand how MFP works, and still others who think that all weight loss is 100% fat loss & that faster weight loss is a good thing.
But, yeah I get your point. There is no blanket one-size fits all. The @lauragreenbaum148 post wasn't good advice really. I wouldn't want fast weight loss at the expense of lean muscle mass.
Not necessarily. If @lauragreebaum148 uses a different calculator instead of the artificially low MFP value, she may be getting enough calories. According to MFP I should eat 1400 cals/day with exercise. The Scooby method instructs me to eat 1941 cals/day (net) for the same effect but I wouldn't "eat back" my calories.0 -
positivepowers wrote: »lauragreenbaum148 wrote: »i read an interesting article that some people far overestimate the calories they burn, so they end up consuming more than they think they are. It has a negative effect on weight loss in the end. I never input my work outs because I don't want calories added back into my daily allotment. I figure workouts are "extra" help or icing on the cake, haha.
Don't you have to eat your macros back? I mean look at your protein before and after exercises it goes up meaning it needs to be replenished
Some people choose to ignore exercise calories all together. For some it's because exercise is minimal or they have modest weekly goals, others who may not understand how MFP works, and still others who think that all weight loss is 100% fat loss & that faster weight loss is a good thing.
But, yeah I get your point. There is no blanket one-size fits all. The @lauragreenbaum148 post wasn't good advice really. I wouldn't want fast weight loss at the expense of lean muscle mass.
Not necessarily. If @lauragreebaum148 uses a different calculator instead of the artificially low MFP value, she may be getting enough calories. According to MFP I should eat 1400 cals/day with exercise. The Scooby method instructs me to eat 1941 cals/day (net) for the same effect but I wouldn't "eat back" my calories.
But that's different than just saying "don't eat exercise calories".
With TDEE, you DO eat exercise calories, they are just figured in your calorie allotment ahead of time.
And since we are using MFP, many people here would be following their calorie estimates.
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I can burn 1000+ calories in one day ... but I'm a long distance cyclist. A 4+ hour bicycle ride will burn that much.
But if I'm just walking 5 km on a rest day, I'm not burning anywhere near 1000 calories.
And yes, I do eat back most of my exercise calories. There's no way I'd want to do a 4+ hour bicycle ride and not consume some fuel along the way!!0 -
I'm someone who does calculate their daily walking, however I will say that I have never seen results that look far fetched (for example, 131 calories for 30 minutes mod pace walking). I do however walk for an hour every day (usually close to 10,000 steps) and often my pace is faster for half of this when I'm late for my train! I only bump it up to 3.5 pace on these days though. I don't count any exercise I do when at work, which is a lot of up and down stairs, so I feel that I'd MFP does over estimate it, my stair climbs I don't log make up for it.
I work out using a steep stair climber for 30 minutes every other day on top of this, however I usually input that I only did 20 minutes unless I pushed myself particularly hard. Being someone on the short side, I don't feel that 30 minutes burning over 300 calories is accurate.0 -
It seems to me that one of the benefits of fitness trackers is that it takes out some of the confusion about "activity level" and TDEE. You don't have to guess as much about casual activity, since the tracker is doing that.
I decided to get an HRM/Tracker Combo (Polar V800), so that's my only "hands on" experience, but mine gives a breakdown of BMR, Activity, and Workout calories each day. For the most part, I only need to be concerned with measuring intake, so the TDEE method works perfectly.
Interestingly, I have found that, at least for me and my work/activity patterns, my daily calorie expenditure doesn't vary all that much. Activity and workouts often balance out. The days where I burn a ton of workout calories are my days off, so my general activities are down because I'm not walking around, training, etc. On my 12-HR shift days, workout calories are small or none, but activity calories can be 50%-70% of BMR, so that makes up for it. So, for the most part, I really don't have to be concerned about eating back any exercise calories
It has been an interesting study in my lifestyle movement patterns. The tracker almost certainly overestimates activity calories, --probably by a good 10%-15%) but the pattern is consistent. So, over time, you learn by trial and error how to compensate.0 -
This is why I prefer using my Fitbit, instead of estimating my burned calories. I know the Fitbit is not totally accurate, but it has been studied and seems to be pretty close. Otherwise, I take half of what MFP gives me, or what the elliptical says, and use that number. I am always baffled when people use cleaning or other house hold work towards their exercise calories, though. I don't get it.0
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My calorie burn comes straight from my Fitbit. I am heavier though, so I'm going to burn more calories with less effort. There are days when I do burn 1000+ calories from cardio, however that's generally not all at once. It's a combination of my morning, midday and evening cardio. When my cardio calories get up that high, I generally do not eat them back. Some time MFP yells at me, some times it doesn't.0
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Spliner1969 wrote: »I also feel that apple's devices are pretty accurate, at least for step counting and GPS. I've had more consistent results with an iPhone than with FitBit. My wife tried a fitbit and we compared the two, the fitbit failed constantly, and was easy to cheat. I never found a good way to cheat the iPhone' step counter. However, I would not trust any sensor on my wrist for heart rate. Get a strap, it's so much more accurate. Pair it with your iPhone and your own calorie burns will start to get more accurate.
I compared my Fitbit HR with my Polar strap and they were both pretty close. That's the only reason why I am willing to rely on my Fitbit alone for hardcore cardio.0
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